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Degrees of sin - Poll

Should we teach:

  • There are no degrees of sin with God. Full stop!

    Votes: 2 28.6%
  • Sin is sin and sin has degrees.

    Votes: 5 71.4%

  • Total voters
    7

KingJ

Active
Joined
Mar 31, 2015
Messages
4,834
It seems that many Christians refuse to teach or believe in degrees of sins in their walk with God.

The popular statement you hear in church is that 'sin is sin'.

I believe this is foolishness that embarrasses Christianity and incriminates God as it suggests He may pervert Justice.

Imagine telling your spouse that if she thinks of someone else you will divorce them. Imagine telling sinners that whether you are a candy thief or a murderer, you are all getting the same punishment in hell.

---------------------------------

Now scripture does teach that 'sin is sin'. But it also teaches that sin has degrees.

Jesus gives us two examples of 'sin being sin':

1. Jesus stops an adulterer being stoned to death. He says, 'Whoever is without sin, cast the first stone'. John 8:7.
2. In Matt 5:28 He says that you are guilty of the sin of adultery if you merely have immoral thoughts.

From the above two examples we see that the statement 'sin is sin' is sound and true. But we must not place a full stop there!

Jesus also states in John 8:11 that the adulterer must go and sin no more. Jesus also states in Matt 5:32 that we must not divorce unless there is actual adultery.

Teaching 'sin is sin' in isolation to 'degrees of sin' is therefore teaching a half truth.

------------------------------

Scripture relevant to degrees of sin:

1. Old Testament laws

If we read Leviticus and Exodus, we see many differing punishments for sin. Ranging from A - Warning, B - Lashes, C - Excommunication, D - Death by stoning, E - Death by fire. Fornication for example got you 100 lashes. Adultery, graphic and violent death by stoning. Incest, burnt to death by fire.

Lev 20:10 If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, even with the wife of his neighbour, both the adulterer and adulteress must be put to death.

Lev 20:14 If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire.


2. Sodom was destroyed for their grievous sins

Gen 18:20 And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous.

Sodom was not destroyed because their sins were small. Imagine that. ''Lord, please destroy Sodom! There are too many people thinking about plucking wings off butterflies!!''.

3. God does not change His mind

If God's thoughts of an unrepentant adulterer were to ordain a graphic and violent death by stoning, and his thoughts of a fornicator was to dish out 100 lashes, do not for one second think His thoughts on the sins and the differing punishments they deserve has changed!

Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good.

4. God is just

The definition of 'just' is to be fair. To dish out punishment and reward according to one's actions.

Rom 2:6 God will repay each person according to what they have done.
Job 34:12 It is unthinkable that God would do wrong, that the Almighty would pervert justice.


5. Paul isolates a sinner from sinners

In 1 Cor 5:1 we see how Paul isolates a sinner guilty of sin that not even pagans commit. We have to note that he would not have done this to a candy thief or someone who merely thought of incest.

1 Cor 5:1-2 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife. And you are proud! Shouldn’t you rather have gone into mourning and have put out of your fellowship the man who has been doing this?

6. Paul rebukes Christians who cannot judge matters better than the unsaved

1 Cor 6:1-9 Paul rebukes fellow Christians for taking matters to the unsaved. He says that one day we will judge angels, how much more matters that pertain to this life.

Now, imagine after Paul rebuked you for this, you decide to sentence a candy thief to 25 years in prison alongside murderers.

1 Cor 6:3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!

7. Paul confesses to making mistakes of sin, never grievous sin

In Rom 7:15 we read how Paul still sinned. Was he referring to the grievous sins he committed before salvation? IE Murdering Christians.

Rom 7:15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

Imagine Paul continued in rape, pillaging and murder after he was saved. In Rom 7:15 he is clearly referencing lessor sins. What Catholics would call venial sins.

8. Jesus differentiates between sinful thoughts and actions

In Matt 5:28 Jesus explains that thoughts of adultery are a sin of adultery
In Matt 5:32 Jesus explains that thoughts of adultery are not grounds to divorce

------------------------

Conclusion:

You will go to hell one day because you are unrepentant in sin and reject Jesus. Grievous or non-grievous.

The degree of sin we are in points to how 'sold out' we are to a love of what is evil. And to the punishment we can expect one day from a just and righteous God.

There is simply no such thing as a true Christian who commits grievous sins. Christians battle only with venial sins and can perhaps make a once off mistake of a mortal sin. But that will be highly unlikely as - You cannot HATE what is evil at the level required to accept Jesus if you LOVE what is evil at the level required for a mortal sin.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
No scripture, no grouping of scripture and, no passage of scripture can be fully understood without the light of all scripture shining on it. You have cherry-picked the scriptures and we can prove anything in that fashion. But the context of scripture was never meant to be broken.

The best and the worst thing man has ever done to scripture was to add chapters and verses to the Word of God. The numbers make study of the Word easier but they also ease the dividing phrases and partial phrases, allowing the person not indwelt with Ruah to create man-made theology and the ¿books? of the Bible are letters to us for instruction for eternal life.
 
No scripture, no grouping of scripture and, no passage of scripture can be fully understood without the light of all scripture shining on it.

On this topic. please elaborate as to what further scripture is needed to shine light on it. Quote a passage of mine that you disagree with and share the scripture that also needs to be considered.

This is a discussion forum. Not X. Your post reads like an opiniated statement with no substance.

Opinions can sound nice and be of value to someone, somewhere, maybe.
 
Luke 12:45 But if that servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming,' and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk,
Luke 12:46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
Luke 12:47 And that servant who knew his master's will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
Luke 12:48 But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more.
 
On this topic. please elaborate as to what further scripture is needed to shine light on it. Quote a passage of mine that you disagree with and share the scripture that also needs to be considered.

This is a discussion forum. Not X. Your post reads like an opiniated statement with no substance.

Opinions can sound nice and be of value to someone, somewhere, maybe.
Oversight, had it ready to paste but forgot.
English Standard Version
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
 
Oversight, had it ready to paste but forgot.
English Standard Version
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

Thanks Bill.

Please see my conclusion at the end of the OP. I agree with this. Anyone continuing in sin will land up in hell. Mortal or Venial. This does not however mean there are not degrees of sin. Degrees of sin show your love of evil and the punishment you will receive. It is very applicable to knowing whether or not someone is a Christian. Jesus says you know them by their fruits. Someone who continues in visible mortal sins is not a Christian. Someone who continues in venial sins, could be, only God would know for sure.

When we get our knees and judge ourselves, we must consider the sins we are in.

Matt 7:15 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?

2 Cor 3:15 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?

Phil 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,
 
Thanks Bill.

Please see my conclusion at the end of the OP. I agree with this. Anyone continuing in sin will land up in hell. Mortal or Venial. This does not however mean there are not degrees of sin. Degrees of sin show your love of evil and the punishment you will receive. It is very applicable to knowing whether or not someone is a Christian. Jesus says you know them by their fruits. Someone who continues in visible mortal sins is not a Christian. Someone who continues in venial sins, could be, only God would know for sure.

When we get our knees and judge ourselves, we must consider the sins we are in.

Matt 7:15 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?

2 Cor 3:15 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?

Phil 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,
I am stupid in your eyes because I do not see any justification for continuance in any sin without sincere heartfelt repentance.

Second Thessalonians 1:8–9; Degrees of Sin
There is no unsafe info in the link but the input is too long to paste here.
 
It seems that many Christians refuse to teach or believe in degrees of sins in their walk with God.

The popular statement you hear in church is that 'sin is sin'.

I believe this is foolishness that embarrasses Christianity and incriminates God as it suggests He may pervert Justice.

Imagine telling your spouse that if she thinks of someone else you will divorce them. Imagine telling sinners that whether you are a candy thief or a murderer, you are all getting the same punishment in hell.

Imagine telling your spouse that a queen mother in heaven named after our blessed sister in the Lord Mary alone received the fulness of grace the whole price of salvation .and the of the rest of the world a unknown remnant of grace called Limbo a lying wonder for the younger sinners and Purgatory for the more mature.

The Spirit of Christ informs the believer there must be differences in opinion seeing the kingdom of God does not come by observing the temporal dying flesh . Therefore, exposed false apostles'. . false teachers that hate all things written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
 
No scripture, no grouping of scripture and, no passage of scripture can be fully understood without the light of all scripture shining on it. You have cherry-picked the scriptures and we can prove anything in that fashion. But the context of scripture was never meant to be broken.

The best and the worst thing man has ever done to scripture was to add chapters and verses to the Word of God. The numbers make study of the Word easier but they also ease the dividing phrases and partial phrases, allowing the person not indwelt with Ruah to create man-made theology and the ¿books? of the Bible are letters to us for instruction for eternal life.
So ya don't believe the Word??:(

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”

ಠ⁠︵⁠ಠ
 
I think this poll is a little misguided. The question isn't really are there degrees of sin.

The Bible says there is.

There is a unforgiveable sin. It won't forgiven in this age, or the next.
There is a sin that doesn't lead to death. Just one, but nobody seems to know what it is. This could the ONE exception possibly. (1jn 5:17)
In John 1911; Jesus says Judas's sin was worse than Pilate's sin.
In Lamentations 4:6; it says the sins of Gods people are worse than the sins of Sodom.

Obviously some sins are worse than others. But the ultimate consequences are the same.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned—
Rom 7:13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

All sin leads to death. It doesn't matter if it's a "big sin" or a "small sin". They all lead to death.

Jas 2:9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For He who said, "DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY," also said, "DO NOT COMMIT MURDER." Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

Showing partiality has the same consequences as adultery or murder.

Matt 5:22 "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Simply calling someone a good for nothing fool has the same consequences as murder or adultery or homosexuality.

So, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if it's a "big sin" or "little sin", they ALL lead to death.
 
There is a unforgiveable sin. It won't forgiven in this age, or the next.
There is a sin that doesn't lead to death. Just one, but nobody seems to know what it is. This could the ONE exception possibly. (1jn 5:17)
In John 1911; Jesus says Judas's sin was worse than Pilate's sin.
In Lamentations 4:6; it says the sins of Gods people are worse than the sins of Sodom.

I would offer

The sin that does not lead to death is blasphemy against Jesus the Son of man dying mankind. That 33-year window of opportunity ended when Jesus vanished never to return in the flesh

Peter was forgiven of His blasphemy against the Son of man Jesus. Peter having rebuked the Father forbidding the Jesus the Son of man from doing the powerful will of the Father

No forgiveness against the invisible Father. God is not a man.
 
The sin that does not lead to death is blasphemy against Jesus the Son of man dying mankind. That 33-year window of opportunity ended when Jesus vanished never to return in the flesh

So you're saying I can deny Jesus all my life until I die, and there are no consequnces?
I never have to accept Him or believe in Him or follow Him?
 
So ya don't believe the Word??:(

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”

ಠ⁠︵⁠ಠ
That is one strange response! I said nothing about living under the Law nor any such other nonsense. Except that Yehovah gave us the Law we would not know we are sinners in need of Yahova's Grace. Knowing the Law is knowing sin and the Justice of Yehovah.
 
Compare any sin.
Say one was good by the standards and didn't do worse ones.
Lied. Cheated. Stole. Libel/slander. Versus -

Murder - Genesis4:10
Sodomy - Genesis 18:20-21 and includes everything not heterosexuality.
Oppression of the poor - Exodus 2:23
Defrauding workers of their just wages - James 5:4
Not a complete list of course.

Rejection of the Holy Spirit: Despair, presumption, envy, obstinacy in sin, final impenitence, and deliberate resistance to the known Truth.

Final impenitence = The person is not sorry for their sins and refuses to accept salvation.

Apostasy, contrary to some interpretations, is not the unforgivable sin. Like the parallel sins against faith—infidelity, schism, and heresy—it only becomes an unforgivable sin if one dies in it.

The truth is so many have done the unforgivable sin. They've done it all too easily and in the example of the end of "God's Not Dead" Kevin Sorbo's character gets hit with a car and still refuses God and dies.
You can be certain that if that character was real, he is going to Hell.

There's this bad belief going around if someone "did it but later feels retreat" they "didn't really do it" which is a lie.
 
Showing partiality has the same consequences as adultery or murder.

Matt 5:22 "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

I agreed with your post until this section to the end. This is an incorrect statement. There will most certainly be a difference in punishment between giving one kid a candy bar and another not, verse murdering the kid. A just judge would issue differing punishments. Hell is not a punishment, it is a prison, a home. The punishment for one's specific sin will be delivered in their new home.

To type the line as you have is why many 'so called' Christians today live in mortal sin and seer their conscience to the gravity of God's hatred of the said sin, as ''all sin is sin'' nonsense is taught by one too many Christians.

Granted you did properly explain degrees in the first section, but you should also never type a line like this one I quoted ;).
 
So ya don't believe the Word??:(

For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”

ಠ⁠︵⁠ಠ

Your line is true, but it is a half-truth. Please re-read the OP and quote a passage you disagree with.
 
Compare any sin.
Say one was good by the standards and didn't do worse ones.
Lied. Cheated. Stole. Libel/slander. Versus -

Murder - Genesis4:10
Sodomy - Genesis 18:20-21 and includes everything not heterosexuality.
Oppression of the poor - Exodus 2:23
Defrauding workers of their just wages - James 5:4
Not a complete list of course.

Rejection of the Holy Spirit: Despair, presumption, envy, obstinacy in sin, final impenitence, and deliberate resistance to the known Truth.

Final impenitence = The person is not sorry for their sins and refuses to accept salvation.

Apostasy, contrary to some interpretations, is not the unforgivable sin. Like the parallel sins against faith—infidelity, schism, and heresy—it only becomes an unforgivable sin if one dies in it.

The truth is so many have done the unforgivable sin. They've done it all too easily and in the example of the end of "God's Not Dead" Kevin Sorbo's character gets hit with a car and still refuses God and dies.
You can be certain that if that character was real, he is going to Hell.

There's this bad belief going around if someone "did it but later feels retreat" they "didn't really do it" which is a lie.

I was not following your post, not sure what point you were trying to make until the underlined line. This is incorrect. We have discussed the unforgivable sin on this site before. Nobody currently alive and healthy have committed it.

There was a popular challenge on all atheist sites about ten years ago (time flies), where they wanted to commit the unforgivable sin and see the consequences. ''Let's all curse the Holy Spirit''. They typed curse words, cursing the Holy Spirit. I see this as venial sin idiocy and not 'extreme' evil intent. I am sure God sees it the same. The unforgivable is a 'fulness' of evil intent. I will work on a post explaining what it is.
 
So you're saying I can deny Jesus all my life until I die, and there are no consequnces?
I never have to accept Him or believe in Him or follow Him?

I would think we are carrying out the consequences death the one appointment men are dying to make.

In Christ we have a living hope beyond the grave

Ecclesiastic 12 Don’t let the excitement of being young cause you to forget about your Creator. Honor him in your youth before the evil years come—when you’ll no longer enjoy living. It will be too late then to try to remember him when the sun and light and moon and stars are dim to your old eyes, and there is no silver lining left among your clouds. For there will come a time when your limbs will tremble with age, your strong legs will become weak, and your teeth will be too few to do their work, and there will be blindness too. ;Then let your lips be tightly closed while eating when your teeth are gone! And you will waken at dawn with the first note of the birds; but you yourself will be deaf and tuneless, with quavering voice. ;You will be afraid of heights and of falling—a white-haired, withered old man, dragging himself along: without sexual desire, standing at death’s door, and nearing his everlasting home as the mourners go along the streets.
 
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