A Time to Kill?

[Chad]

A Time to Kill?
by Roger Patterson, AiG

Is it okay to kill, like David killing Goliath or Joshua eliminating Canaanites? Or is killing forbidden?

<cite class="bibleref">Exodus 20:13</cite>
“You shall not murder.”​

<cite class="bibleref">Exodus 22:2</cite>
“If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed.”​

<cite class="bibleref">Leviticus 24:15–16</cite>
“Whoever curses his God shall bear his sin. And whoever blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death.”​

<cite class="bibleref">Leviticus 24:17</cite>
“Whoever kills any man shall surely be put to death.”​

<cite class="bibleref">1 Samuel 17:50</cite>
So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and a stone, and struck the Philistine and killed him.​

In order to answer this apparent contradiction, we must make a distinction between killing someone and committing murder. Murder is the unlawful taking of a life, while killing may be lawful or unlawful. The establishment of capital punishment actually extends back to the Noahic Covenant when God declared, “Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; from the hand of every beast I will require it, and from the hand of man. From the hand of every man’s brother I will require the life of man. Whoever sheds man’s blood, by man his blood shall be shed; for in the image of God He made man” (<cite class="bibleref">Genesis 9:5–6</cite>).

Even before this, Cain was afraid of the other members of his family seeking to kill him after he had murdered his brother Abel (<cite class="bibleref">Genesis 4:13–15</cite>).¹ In the cases outlined in Scripture, taking the life of another in the name of justice was not murder. The question poses a false dilemma in that killing does not have to be always right or always wrong—God has provided qualifications.

Because man is made in the image of God, the death of a human is not taken lightly. In the laws given to Israel through Moses, those sins that were worthy of death were detailed. <cite class="bibleref" title="Leviticus 19">Leviticus 19</cite> is one such place where these commands are given. Since these are commands directly from God and God cannot lie, we understand that there must be no contradiction in the commands. Those who committed sexual sins were to be justly killed, but only upon the clear affirmation of their crime established by witnesses.

As the author of the first five books of the Bible, Moses would not have written contradictory ideas. If we allow for killing to be wrong in every case, when a person carried out capital punishment, as commanded by God, they would have to be killed for the taking of a life. Then their life would be demanded, and so on until humanity was left with one. Extending the logic allows us to see how absurd the claim of a contradiction truly is.

The Bible provides many circumstances under which the taking of a life is legally allowed by Scripture. Killing another person in an act of self defense (<cite class="bibleref">Exodus 22:2</cite>) was permitted with no consequences. There are examples of God calling the people to war against other nations to punish them for their sins. When Joshua led the children of Israel into the Promised Land, God commanded the Israelites to utterly destroy the idolatrous peoples who inhabited the land (<cite class="bibleref">Deuteronomy 20:16–17</cite>). A list of their sins can be found in <cite class="bibleref" title="Leviticus 18">Leviticus 18</cite>, including incest, murdering children, and so on. When God called Israel to war against those in the Promised Land, then He was permitting the killing in this situation, making men His agents of justice, as in the case with capital punishment.

The killing of Goliath by the young David was, likewise, justified in the eyes of God. In fact, David was angered by the way that Goliath blasphemed God and met him in battle. David did not trust in himself, but in the Lord to deliver Goliath into his hands. This is an example of continuance of the war the Israelites had been engaged in with the inhabitants of the Promised Land, as directed by God.

God repeatedly chose war and capital punishment as a way to bring judgment on peoples and individuals who were acting in defiance of His will by doing great sin. He ordained the killing as a punishment to accomplish His purposes in the world.

This should give an idea of seriousness of sin. In the eyes of a perfect and holy God, one sin is worthy of death (<cite class="bibleref">Genesis 2:17</cite>). Since we are all sinners, we are all under the death sentence already. In essence, we are all on “death row,” and those who murder or do other terrible sins as described in Scripture, simply had their wait on “death row” shortened.

God hates sin, especially those that lead to any situation where a human life is lost. His holy nature and subsequent hatred of sin make the taking of a life acceptable only in the rarest of cases. We should never seek to minimize the taking of a life—a life made in the image of God. Remember that taking a life for justifiable reasons is only necessary because we live in a world of sin. The perfect creation would not have required death for any reason.

1. The Lord did protect Cain by placing a mark on him to prevent others from taking his life. After the Flood, things changed.

 

[Boanerges]

Amen. God has commanded wars, and the death penealty as civil punishment.
Like Jesus we are never to be angry or strike out for personal reasons.
Murder is not of God.

 

[Slich]

we must make a distinction between killing someone and committing murder

Manslaughter.

Like Jesus we are never to be angry or strike out for personal reasons.
Murder is not of God.

1 Samuel 11:6 it says: “Then the Spirit of God came mightily upon Saul, and he became very angry”

Someday God will destroy His enemies, the ones who have done so much damage to His people, and He will do it in anger (Isaiah 30:27, 28).

 

[Boanerges]

God made specific different responses for those who commited cold blooded murder and manslaughter and even prepared cities of refuge for the latter.

 

[Slich]

God made specific different responses for those who commited cold blooded murder and manslaughter and even prepared cities of refuge for the latter.

THANKYOU

You're alright.

 

[Boanerges]

THANKYOU

You're alright.

Right back at you my friend!:shade:

 

[TheSilentHero]

Wow that's a toughie. My thought has always been that murdering someone because you hate them or because you're just sick minded like that is wrong. But killing because you are defending people you love or because God told you to, I think that's ok. God has instructed people in the Bible to destroy enemies that threatened Israel. And if it were wrong to kill, then God would be guilty of sinning because he himself has killed. In Noah's flood, he killed the wicked people of the earth. When the 40 men verbally persecuted Elijah for his faith, God sent a bear to kill all of them. David fought Goliath to protect the Israelites.They are God's chosen people and you do NOT mess with his chosen ones. lol. God sent the angel of death to everyone in Egypt that did not have the mark of the lamb's blood on there door to kill, I believe, the first born sons. God also sent the 10 plagues of Egypt. And, because not everyone follows that commandment; Thou shalt not kill; then we are forced to kill those that threaten us. But the decision to kill a kid strapped to a bomb, or kill a man that really isn't so wicked, he's just confused, but still a threat... is hard. That's why it is important to be close to God. It is so easy to make the wrong decision. Anyway, I hope this makes some sense.

 

[Dazed]

I think it was implicit understood that the ten commandments applied to the Jews only. If it's written out, it would be "Thou shall not kill Jews". The Koran explicitly forbidden the killing of Muslims, but killing non-Muslims are acceptable.

 

[Zstrastwa]

"In the eyes of a perfect and holy God, one sin is worthy of death. Since we are all sinners, we are all under the death sentence already."

Does Jesus Christ mean nothing?

 

[Zstrastwa]

God is love, love is God.
Love does not kill, does not end another's life because there is always a chance for forgiveness.
Jesus loved and forgave, never killed. Never even fought... never said a hurtful word... never used a weapon...
Anyone who believes God likes to kill or tells us to is clearly not reading the Bible seeking God's truth.

 

[Kit Carson]

God is love, love is God.
Love does not kill, does not end another's life because there is always a chance for forgiveness.
Jesus loved and forgave, never killed. Never even fought... never said a hurtful word... never used a weapon...
Anyone who believes God likes to kill or tells us to is clearly not reading the Bible seeking God's truth.

Hey:

This jumps right out at me. This is exactly why we today have such crime, and have such confusion and such a mess in the world. We have went so far from God he cries.

Today we have prisons and a liberal attitude and we tax the people to support the crime. We allow those who commit crimes to reenter society and commit them again. This does not make sense to even good men, let alone God.

God is not all love as the human mind likes to see it. Not all is forgiven, turning the other cheek does not mean to stand there and let evil run rampant. Sadly we have done so.

When I was younger I was a police officer for a time, and one of the guys got into a situation where he did have to kill an assailant at a quick stop store. These two men had killed the woman and her daughter already. He did not know this at the time, but did have to make the choice to kill as these two men were now intent on killing him.
His church was so confused that they had him confused, they preached the all is love message. It bothered him so much he was running around with no rounds in his weapon, and eventually quit the job, it ate him up as he allowed the words of men to control him. I tried to explain to him, hey the the men in the crime made their choice, you did what was absolutely required. God will give you a medal. I think he is ok with it now, but at the time it really worked on his mind.

There is a reason for the taking of a life, Gods anger and justice is perfect. It took me time to realize this, but it is very apparent in the world of today, that not following simple laws allows us to fall more and more into sin.

We are men, we are by nature evil and God will thump us for it.
God loves us with all his being, but he knows how to keep order and provide for society also....when we walk away from that, we get what we see in the world today.

It takes many a lot of time to see this....you see all listen to the words of men....not to God.

Kit

 

[Brad Huber]

We all know that we are to focus on being more "spiritual minded", yet we focus so much on the flesh, which is a temporary shell. Death is not an evil thing. It is simply the exit from the world of flesh into the world of the spirit. The only thing from my pov that is bad about death, is if someone is not right with the Lord, then the exit of the world of flesh, means eternal seperation from the Spirit of God. That being said, we should avoid killing others unless in defense. There is probably times that an offensive action against a nation that is attacking our nation, under the guidance of the military leadership, should be done. For we are to adhere to laws of the land, unless they conflict with the law of the Lord. And the wording of the text is actually Thou shalt not murder, its merely mistranslated in many texts. A murder is personal premeditated attack on another resulting in thier death, when you have not been given the right to end that life. But God is the creator, and only He has the right to end life, which He did in the great flood with much flesh.

 

[Brother Paul]

When God says, you shall not kill, that does not mean in an absolute sense, as you will see, for we must first understand what He is saying here, and in order to do that, we must discern what He means here by the word “kill” in the commandment as opposed to what is meant in other places the translators also called “kill”! There are three different words used for killing in the Old Testament. So in order to uncover the circumstances or events under which killing is sometimes allowed, one must take into account the context of the act and which word is being used.

The Hebrew word “rasah” or “rashah”, as it is used here in the 6th Commandment refers most specifically to premeditated murder without just cause. However, it can also be used in the sense of manslaughter, as when one kills by mistake, or without intent, like in the case of Numbers 25:11; Deuteronomy 4:42, 19:4, Joshua 20:3-5, and elsewhere! Thus in Hebrew the specific meaning of this word must always be determined by its’ context. We must always see it in relation to the surrounding statements. In the commandments it is absolute and the law is conditional…
Sin is a transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4) and there are actually 613 commandments…the soul that sins it must die is called the curse of the law but actually goes all the way back to the garden and what is really being said is that sin brings forth sickness and death (spiritual death).

Next, we have the word “hemit”, which carries no sense of guilt or iniquity and is used in the case of righteous capital punishment, or when the killing is the result of an attack from a wild beast, and so on! The root of this word is related to the word “emet” or truth. We see this usage in Leviticus 20:4; Numbers 35:19-21; Deuteronomy 13:10 (your passage) and Deuteronomy 17:7!

Finally, when God orders the execution or destruction of an individual or group (like when He commands Joshua at the five cities of Canaan), the word “haraq” is used (See Genesis 20:4; Exodus 4:23, etc.). This form of killing is used specifically in the prevention of foreseen evils beyond our comprehension. By eliminating these people, God is actually sparing millions of people the pain, disease, suffering, and death that they would have caused. It would be used for example in eliminating an Adolph Hitler. There is absolutely nothing evil in this, in fact it is very good. Therefore, this form of killing is always just, whether or not we finite humans can see the full implications of His doing it.

Just for our edification...

Brother Paul

 

[B-A-C]

I guess for me, it would be.. "why". Why do I need to kill someone.

I was in the military, I didn't fight in any wars, but if I would have been called to go, I would have went. If I was ordered to kill the enemy, I would have.
I can tell you, if someone broke into my house and threatened my wife or children, and killing them would end the threat, I'm pretty sure I would do it.

On the other hand...
Should we kill for selfish reasons? For revenge? For hate? So I can take something from you?
If God told me to kill someone ( Sisera, Goliath, the Philistines, the priests of Baal, the Egyptian army, the Giants of Canaan, etc...) I hope I would do what God told me to do.

On the other hand....
If God didn't tell me to kill anyone... why am I doing it? Probably for a selfish reason.

Rev 19:19; And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.

 

[amadeus2]

The time to kill for every believer is now, but it is not our neighbor or our brother we are to kill but rather the 'old man' who still abides in each of us who has not yet to overcome everything that stands between him and God. Death itself still lives within us until we have killed it completely. The power is ours as promised if we will acknowledge it and use it. Jesus came to bring us a more abundant Life, but in order to really have all that has been promised, the deadwood within us must be cleared our and replaced by Life.

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

 

[Brother Paul]

The Hebrew word “rasah” or “rashah”, as it is used here in the 6th Commandment refers most specifically to premeditated murder without just cause. However, it can also be used in the sense of manslaughter, as when one kills by mistake, or without intent, like in the case of Numbers 25:11; Deuteronomy 4:42, 19:4, Joshua 20:3-5, and elsewhere! Thus in Hebrew the specific meaning of this word must always be determined by its’ context. We must always see it in relation to the surrounding statements. In the commandments it is absolute and the law is conditional…

Sin is a transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4) and there are actually 613 commandments…the soul that sins it must die is called the curse of the law but actually goes all the way back to the garden and what is really being said is that sin brings forth sickness and death (spiritual death).

Next, we have the word “hemit”, which carries no sense of guilt or iniquity and is used in the case of righteous capital punishment, or when the killing is the result of an attack from a wild beast, and so on! The root of this word is related to the word “emet” or truth. We see this usage in Leviticus 20:4; Numbers 35:19-21; Deuteronomy 13:10 (your passage) and Deuteronomy 17:7!

Finally, when God orders the execution or destruction of an individual or group (like when He commands Joshua at the five cities of Canaan), the word “haraq” is used (See Genesis 20:4; Exodus 4:23, etc.). This form of killing is used specifically in the prevention of foreseen evils beyond our comprehension. By eliminating these people, God is actually sparing millions of people the pain, disease, suffering, and death that they would have caused. It would be used for example in eliminating an Adolph Hitler. There is absolutely nothing evil in this, in fact it is very good. Therefore, this form of killing is always just, whether or not we finite humans can see the full implications of His doing it.

Brother Paul

 

[Brother Paul]

Now to demonstrate a sense of justifiable killing that is not murder, that is not necessarily morally wrong, such as the basis for the so-called “Just War” concept, or God’s command for certain people to go wipe out a family line, or an entire city, or even when considering the right to protect one’s children from victimization at the hands of some maniac, I will use an analogy that arises from within the survival instinct of our own bodies. The principle I am about to reveal is basic to all living creatures and though analogous is well grounded in established biological truth.

Imagine in the human body, each cell as an individual life form, which actually it is. They each likewise function as part of a specific local community (the heart, the lungs, the blood stream, etc.,). Different cells, and groups of cells, display differences in structure, appearance, life-span, function, etc., just like different humans and groups of humans! Each cell in relation to the other cells, and as a member of their particular cellular community, knowingly or unknowingly works as an intricate part of a whole which is greater than the sum of its parts. The human host, of which it is but a tiny almost insignificant part, is as the Lord is to us, in relation to the members of His body. The individual cell’s instinctual purpose, like our own, is to work to maintain and protect its self life, as well as the goals of its community life.

One of the ways they assure the survival of their type is through self-replication or offspring. Their higher purpose is actually to achieve our will and our good purpose though they are most probably totally unaware, or only vaguely, that we, as their human host, even exists. They understand little if anything about us, and our ways are higher than their ways, our thoughts are higher than their thoughts, if indeed it can be said that they even have any. They go about more or less doing the right thing in relation to one another unaware of the part they are playing in working within our overall purpose and will. Beyond their circumstantial perceptions they are working and interacting to optimize our quality of life and helping to fulfill our long term plans.

Now then, each individual cell is created in our image. They contain the image of their host within each of them (called DNA). They probably can sense an order and function interactively to enhance their mutually dependable existence. The span of their existence may be miniscule in relation to their human host, but to them it is a lifetime.

Sad as this truth is, every once in a while, a cell or some group of cells, decides they are going to do their own thing. They’re going to be their own lord if you will. They seemingly become self-willed and rebellious toward the established order. They begin to gain new converts so to speak, in great numbers, and nothing is going to stop them from their plan to take over. We call this actual biological phenomena is what we call “Cancer”! These terrorist or barbarous cells literally go into attack mode and start sapping the life out of the surrounding cells, killing as many as necessary in pursuit of their self-willed agenda. At first the effect of their violence upon their community of cells is slight and almost unnoticeable, causing some alarm, discomfort, and intermittent disturbance here and there. Regulatory norms are enforced by the greater community, and often these violent murderous outbreaks are remedied without bringing much attention or alarm to the neighboring cellular communities. However, on occasion these cells reject these corrective measures and rebel even further extending there influence outward, and begin to influence their surroundings in such a way that the immune system is alerted, and the local community has to call in specialists to eliminate these criminal cells in an attempt to protect the near by individuals, and the society at large. These are usually in the form of “anti-bodies”, killer T-cells, and other white blood cells, that specialize in response to the types of violent rebellion these particular cellular individuals impose. Why try to eliminate them? Because of the inevitable threat they cause to individuals and to the greater society. The literally bring a sort of chaos into the order of things destroying the work being done there. If left on their own without being stopped they will continue to maliciously destroy and entirely take over. The forces alerted to remedy the problem will stop at nothing to prevent more senseless murder and mayhem and if necessary will even kill them. They even try surrounding them and trapping them as a first attempt by encapsulating them in a membrane or prison if you will.

If they get too powerful, or for some non-sensible reason are released, or break out of their captivity, or get away with their self-lordship too long, the cell’s lord, (in this case the human host), begins to take notice and likewise goes on alert. It likewise then takes any steps necessary to overcome or even kill the Cancer before it gets too powerful. It will irradiate, cut out, laser roast, or even chop off a limb in order to preserve the greater good and sometimes the life of the whole. Some times,sadly, a number of good healthy citizen cells make the sacrifice of self for the greater good. Sometimes they are trsgically eliminated in the process. Sometimes just the act of chasing down these devils and getting at them causes the sacrifice of good, innocent, healthy, cellular individuals. As tragic as this may seem it is sometimes the necessary price that must be paid to protect and save the most lives in the community or body as a whole. In doing this would anyone say the person was evil or committing a sin?

So it is with God!

 

[Last Things]

While I think war and capital punishment can be morally acceptable, I would question the necessity of capital punishment today in western nations. If a person threatens life, the obviously, it is okay to take theirs.

When people were nomadic, it was impossible to 'jail' someone. If a criminal can be jailed, it would seem to give little reason for why that person must be killed. They are no longer a threat to society. The death penalty would only seem necessary if the person was considered a viable threat to jail guards. Today, people advocate the death penalty as a matter of 'justice'. But life is the creation of God and it would seem that to take it when not necessary would be taking what is God's to decide.That is, take life in an extreme circumstance, not as a matter of justice.