After a Christian Dies

Eric E Stahl · Mar 11, 2014

RJ · Mar 13, 2014

We spend our time in heaven resting and praising God and having a great time till we come back to earth with Jesus to defeat the antichrist and his army.
We spend our time in heaven resting and praising God and having a great time till we come back to earth with Jesus to defeat the antichrist and his army.

I think your conceptual understanding of heaven is great but, for me, there is too much emphasis on your timing and God's being the same.

The Bible teaches that we will share in Jesus inheritance, including his glory: Romans 8:17
Perfection and glory is our journey's end: 1 Corinthians 13: 9-12....9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; 10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully
We all have our own thoughts and dreams of heaven and yours is as wonderful as the next positive hope. Although, truly in God's realm, there must be absolute perfection; nothing opposite of God and all with perfect love and endless possibilities. I believe, as I think the Bible teaches, we are already seated in the heavenlies with Jesus spiritually: Ephesians 2:8
Jesus is the Alpha and Omega and, in his perfection: omnipresence, omnipotence and omniscience, he is the beginning and the end at the same time and so are we ! Our timing and presence is not the same as his. In his realm there is no space or time as we no it and everything has been accomplished from the foundation of the universe.
No floating around on clouds and playing harps, unless we won't to!
But, of course, that is my picture...just as real and positive as yours!
Two things, I want to be "changed in the blink of the eye" and I want come back riding a horse!
Who among us can really say, except it is going to be "out of this world"!

Eric E Stahl · Mar 15, 2014

RJ said:
We spend our time in heaven resting and praising God and having a great time till we come back to earth with Jesus to defeat the antichrist and his army.
We spend our time in heaven resting and praising God and having a great time till we come back to earth with Jesus to defeat the antichrist and his army.

I think your conceptual understanding of heaven is great but, for me, there is too much emphasis on your timing and God's being the same.

The Bible teaches that we will share in Jesus inheritance, including his glory: Romans 8:17

Perfection and glory is our journey's end: 1 Corinthians 13: 9-12....9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect; 10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully

We all have our own thoughts and dreams of heaven and yours is as wonderful as the next positive hope. Although, truly in God's realm, there must be absolute perfection; nothing opposite of God and all with perfect love and endless possibilities. I believe, as I think the Bible teaches, we are already seated in the heavenlies with Jesus spiritually: Ephesians 2:8

Jesus is the Alpha and Omega and, in his perfection: omnipresence, omnipotence and omniscience, he is the beginning and the end at the same time and so are we ! Our timing and presence is not the same as his. In his realm there is no space or time as we no it and everything has been accomplished from the foundation of the universe.

No floating around on clouds and playing harps, unless we won't to!

But, of course, that is my picture...just as real and positive as yours!

Two things, I want to be "changed in the blink of the eye" and I want come back riding a horse!

Who among us can really say, except it is going to be "out of this world"!

1 Corinthians 3:10-15
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

All our works will be judged and will be rewarded according to their value.

RJ · Mar 16, 2014

Eric E Stahl said:
1 Corinthians 3:10-15
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

All our works will be judged and will be rewarded according to their value.

I think it be significant that theses verses point to:

Every man be judged
Only Christ is the way
Surely, the greatest judgement will be if Christ is in you or not!

james1523 · Mar 16, 2014

RJ said:
I think it be significant that theses verses point to:

Every man be judged

Only Christ is the way

Surely, the greatest judgement will be if Christ is in you or not!

Certainly is the greatest judgement, but torment and punishment in outer darkness for 1000 years is not pleasant either.

james1523 · Mar 16, 2014

Eric E Stahl said:
<style>  </style> After a Christian dies

When we die the Holy Spirit takes our spirit to heaven where we get a new body like Jesus had after his resurrection. See 2 Corinthians 5:1-10 KJV

2 Corinthians 5:1-10
1 For we know that if a our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven,
3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.
4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.
5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also f has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord.
7 For we walk by faith, not by sight.
8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.
9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

At the time of the resurrection Jesus calls up our earthly bodies after the old nature and sin are removed and our heavenly body is put on over our earthly body as a cloak. Our two bodies become one body.

1 Corinthians 15:50-57
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

In heaven we will bow before Jesus and he will judge us for reward, then we will live in heaven till the battle of Armageddon.

1 Corinthians 3:10-15
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

We spend our time in heaven resting and praising God and having a great time till we come back to earth with Jesus to defeat the antichrist and his army.

Psalm 149:4-9 KJV
4 For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation.
5 Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds.
6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand;
7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people;
8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;
9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD.

Revelation 19:11-21
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

I agree with everything here except I believe that the spirit goes to Hades (Paradise), not Heaven. That is where Jesus went between His death and resurrection and where we will go also. Jesus did not go to Heaven until He rose from the dead.

So it is not die, spirit goes to heaven, resurrection, then go back to heaven.

It is die, spirit goes to Hades (Paradise), then there is the resurrection, then we go to heaven, only to come back again to fight at Armagedon at the end of the millenial reign of Christ, and then to dwell on the Earth in the New Jerusalem.

The problem lies in not seeing the difference between Paradise and Heaven. Paradise is the side of Hades for the righteous, and hell is the side of Hades for the unrighteous (see Luke 16:26)

RJ · Mar 16, 2014

james1523 said:
Certainly is the greatest judgement, but torment and punishment in outer darkness for 1000 years is not pleasant either.

I am not sure what you mean, eternal punishment is for ever.

james1523 · Mar 16, 2014

RJ said:
I am not sure what you mean, eternal punishment is for ever.

I'm not talking about eternal punishment. I'm talking about temporary punishment. If our work stands the test of fire we receive reward, if not we suffer loss:

1 Cor 3:14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

I'm saying the loss experienced by verse 15 is not pleasant. The work is the things in our soul, the loss is the loss of those things in the soul that are not of Christ, the burning is by hell fire. This verse is saying if our work doesn't pass the test (if our soul is not transformed into Christ's image), we get to spend some time in hell fire, but is temporary, not eternal.

Eric E Stahl · Mar 17, 2014

james1523 said:
I'm not talking about eternal punishment. I'm talking about temporary punishment. If our work stands the test of fire we receive reward, if not we suffer loss:

1 Cor 3:14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

I'm saying the loss experienced by verse 15 is not pleasant. The work is the things in our soul, the loss is the loss of those things in the soul that are not of Christ, the burning is by hell fire. This verse is saying if our work doesn't pass the test (if our soul is not transformed into Christ's image), we get to spend some time in hell fire, but is temporary, not eternal.

I have good news for you.

It is the works that are burned, not the Christian.

Any works done for self will not build a reward in heaven.

If you give a cup of water to a thirsty man to gain favor or glory, you have your reward and there will be no more reward in heaven. But if you give a cup of water for the

glory of God you will receive a reward in heaven.

james1523 · Mar 17, 2014

Eric E Stahl said:
I have good news for you.

It is the works that are burned, not the Christian.

Any works done for self will not build a reward in heaven.

If you give a cup of water to a thirsty man to gain favor or glory, you have your reward and there will be no more reward in heaven. But if you give a cup of water for the

glory of God you will receive a reward in heaven.

Can you please explain how works can be burnt, and what are the works being burnt?

NoHype · Mar 17, 2014

james1523 said:
I agree with everything here except I believe that the spirit goes to Hades (Paradise), not Heaven. That is where Jesus went between His death and resurrection and where we will go also. Jesus did not go to Heaven until He rose from the dead.

So it is not die, spirit goes to heaven, resurrection, then go back to heaven.

It is die, spirit goes to Hades (Paradise), then there is the resurrection, then we go to heaven, only to come back again to fight at Armagedon at the end of the millenial reign of Christ, and then to dwell on the Earth in the New Jerusalem.

The problem lies in not seeing the difference between Paradise and Heaven. Paradise is the side of Hades for the righteous, and hell is the side of Hades for the unrighteous (see Luke 16:26)

But... Paradise is in... Heaven.

Rev 12:7-8
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
(KJV)

That war is still future to us, because the next verses link that casting out of "heaven" with great tribulation events with a woe to those on the earth.

There's only 2 dimensions of existence written of in God's Word, this earthly and the heavenly. That's how even Satan's abode can be in "heaven" as per that Rev.12 Scripture. Even our Lord Jesus showed only those two dimensions exist in the Prayer He gave us, "Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven" (Matt.6:10).

The Greek Septuagint, which was the Old Testament version the early Church had in Paul's days, used the Greek word 'paradeisos' for God's Eden. That's certainly a lot older usage than the later Roman Catholic Church's traditions using it.

james1523 · Mar 17, 2014

NoHype said:
But... Paradise is in... Heaven.

Rev 12:7-8
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
(KJV)

That war is still future to us, because the next verses link that casting out of "heaven" with great tribulation events with a woe to those on the earth.

There's only 2 dimensions of existence written of in God's Word, this earthly and the heavenly. That's how even Satan's abode can be in "heaven" as per that Rev.12 Scripture. Even our Lord Jesus showed only those two dimensions exist in the Prayer He gave us, "Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven" (Matt.6:10).

The Greek Septuagint, which was the Old Testament version the early Church had in Paul's days, used the Greek word 'paradeisos' for God's Eden. That's certainly a lot older usage than the later Roman Catholic Church's traditions using it.

It is "heavenly", it is pleasant, but it is not actually Heaven, because John 3:13 says There is no one who has gone up to Heaven, but there is One who has come down from Heaven, namely the Son of Man whose home is in Heaven. Heaven is God's home, but God made the Earth for man. Therefore the place for dead men is also in the Earth (deep underground).

The phrase Abraham's bosom in Luke 23:43 is a rabbinical phrase that refers to the place of comfort in sheol (Hades in greek) where the Jews said the righteous dead await Judgement Day. Sheol in the Hebrew Old Testament, or Hades in Septuagint is a place of "silence" to which all men go.

Jesus said the thief on the cross would be in Paradise with Him that very day that they died (Luke 23:43). Ephesians 4:8-10 also says Jesus descended after He died, not ascended into heaven. Therefore Jesus descended into Paradise. The place Jesus descended to is the same place Lazarus descended to, and this place was Hades, place of the dead. Before we ascend to heaven, we must first descend into Hades. This place is in the lower parts of the Earth, but there is a good side (for believers) and a bad side (for unbelievers). Believers will be in rest and refreshed, and unbelievers will be in torment. Note that this place is under the Earth, and is not Gehenna, or the Lake of Fire, which will be the outside of the New Jerusalem on the Earth.

It is where we await judgement to determine if we will enter the New Jerusalem or not. So it is not, go to Heaven then come down again for the resurrection, then go up to heaven again. It is go down deep under the Earth, then resurrection, then up to heaven (or New Jerusalem, to be precise).

Most Christians think since they believe in Christ they go straight up to Heaven. But actually they go straight down into Hades, to a pleasant and comforting place, to rest. And then they will be resurrected to be judged based upon their works (2 Cor 5:10). How shocked most Christians will be that they will be resurrected to be judged, and find that they are not in Heaven.

The view that Christians go to Hades is maintained by the Orthodox churches. The belief that souls go to hell or heaven or purgatory (Catholic) immediately, is a Western Christian belief. A third is the idea that the soul doesn't go anywhere... as believed by Martin Luther , and 7th Day Adventists etc.

Eric E Stahl · Mar 17, 2014

james1523 said:
Can you please explain how works can be burnt, and what are the works being burnt?

1 Corinthians 3:10-15
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Our works are valued as certain building materials. The works that only are worth wood hay stubble will be burned.

Revelation 1:14 describes Jesus eyes now as a flame of fire. Maybe when Jesus looks at the works with us they burn.

Eric E Stahl · Mar 17, 2014

james1523 said:
It is "heavenly", it is pleasant, but it is not actually Heaven, because John 3:13 says There is no one who has gone up to Heaven, but there is One who has come down from Heaven, namely the Son of Man whose home is in Heaven. Heaven is God's home, but God made the Earth for man. Therefore the place for dead men is also in the Earth (deep underground).

The phrase Abraham's bosom in Luke 23:43 is a rabbinical phrase that refers to the place of comfort in sheol (Hades in greek) where the Jews said the righteous dead await Judgement Day. Sheol in the Hebrew Old Testament, or Hades in Septuagint is a place of "silence" to which all men go.

Jesus said the thief on the cross would be in Paradise with Him that very day that they died (Luke 23:43). Ephesians 4:8-10 also says Jesus descended after He died, not ascended into heaven. Therefore Jesus descended into Paradise. The place Jesus descended to is the same place Lazarus descended to, and this place was Hades, place of the dead. Before we ascend to heaven, we must first descend into Hades. This place is in the lower parts of the Earth, but there is a good side (for believers) and a bad side (for unbelievers). Believers will be in rest and refreshed, and unbelievers will be in torment. Note that this place is under the Earth, and is not Gehenna, or the Lake of Fire, which will be the outside of the New Jerusalem on the Earth.

It is where we await judgement to determine if we will enter the New Jerusalem or not. So it is not, go to Heaven then come down again for the resurrection, then go up to heaven again. It is go down deep under the Earth, then resurrection, then up to heaven (or New Jerusalem, to be precise).

Most Christians think since they believe in Christ they go straight up to Heaven. But actually they go straight down into Hades, to a pleasant and comforting place, to rest. And then they will be resurrected to be judged based upon their works (2 Cor 5:10). How shocked most Christians will be that they will be resurrected to be judged, and find that they are not in Heaven.

The view that Christians go to Hades is maintained by the Orthodox churches. The belief that souls go to hell or heaven or purgatory (Catholic) immediately, is a Western Christian belief. A third is the idea that the soul doesn't go anywhere... as believed by Martin Luther , and 7th Day Adventists etc.

Before the resurrection of Jesus the spirit of a dead saint went down to Sheol to the bosom of Abraham as Lazarus. When Jesus went to heaven he took the saints that were captive in the Bosom of Abraham back to heaven. Ephesians 4-7-8

Psalm 149:4-9
4 For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation.
5 Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds.
6 Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a two-edged sword in their hand;
7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people;
8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;
9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD.

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