Announcment

[jiggyfly]

Just a reminder to everyone here At TJ.
I just had to close a couple of accounts because their posts were continually propagating salvation by circumcision and law keeping.

This forum is TalkJesus and we(Admin and mods) are here to maintain that integrity as best we can while trying to exercise patience and understanding. Please keep this in mind and if you believe someone's post is propagating something that seems to be contrary to the common thread throughout new testament teaching on Christ's work alone being our salvation please report it and know even though you may not see any action we are working behind the scenes to keep this forum on track.

Thank you all for your help and prayers in keeping TalkJesus about Jesus.

 

[JonahofAkron]

I don't teach law keeping as salvation and I'm not sure anyone could, but I do discuss it as a means of living out the relationship Messiah called us to. Does this make me ban material? No sense beating around the bush. If I'm going to get banned, it might as well be sooner rather than later. No offense intended. I'm sure you guys prayed hard and continuously on how to deal with this issue.

 

[RJ]

Just a reminder to everyone here At TJ.
I just had to close a couple of accounts because their posts were continually propagating salvation by circumcision and law keeping.

This forum is TalkJesus and we(Admin and mods) are here to maintain that integrity as best we can while trying to exercise patience and understanding. Please keep this in mind and if you believe someone's post is propagating something that seems to be contrary to the common thread throughout new testament teaching on Christ's work alone being our salvation please report it and know even though you may not see any action we are working behind the scenes to keep this forum on track.

Thank you all for your help and prayers in keeping TalkJesus about Jesus.

That is sad. If only they would have been more open to the possibilities of a Pro Jesus and faith alone dialogue.

 

[Christ4Ever]

I just had to close a couple of accounts because their posts were continually propagating salvation by circumcision and law keeping.

Mind sharing who they might be? Would the discussions involving OSAS have been part of the reason for this? Curious Brother. I'd been in discussion with an individual from RCC who was trying to justify their position of salvation is why I ask. I've always looked at this as an opportunity to witness and share the truth of scripture. I would include atheist as well. Theirs might be the greater need that can be found here at TJ; however, I do understand the difficulties in overseeing TJ and attempting to preclude the spread of heresy, or deception.

If others haven’t said so, you and the other moderators are in my prayers and have done a great job here at TJ, which has been a blessing to many, and I pray will continue to be so.
YBIC
C4E

 

[gdemoss]

You sit in Moses seat judging the people. This cannot be an easy task. I suppose, in order to decide what is welcome and what must be turned away, you have to first decide what TJ is. It says that it is for serious Christians and those who seek Christ.

You must be circumcised and follow the law is a serious issue to deal with. The current study that I have been trying to work out is based on this issue. I personally understand that Gentile believers are under no obligation to do so and that it is discourage greatly to them by Paul. I am not sure about Jewish believers though.

The most difficult thing about moderating TJ has to be deciding how far to let something go before moderating. Since Christianity is about Christ and not about us, a forum in his honor would definitely have to honor him. This forum calls itself a non-denominational online church. The bible specifically states what is and is not allowed in the church (assembly of believers). Oddly enough, it is said that one should reject heretics after the first or second admonition. It also says that there will be damnable heresies among us. Does this mean that all heresy such as making gentiles become circumcised and keep the law should be ejected? If so then the standard by which the forum must be moderated is the standard belief of the moderator, even if said moderator is in error.

One possible end is that Jesus himself would be moderated out of the forum. Either way it is a difficult task and I appreciate your efforts to do the right thing. You are one on here who I truly believe tries to do what is right. I pray that God will give you great wisdom and discernment. Remember the words of our Lord "Out of the over abundance of the mouth, the heart speaketh"

In Christ

Gary

 

[Kit Carson]

You sit in Moses seat judging the people. This cannot be an easy task. I suppose, in order to decide what is welcome and what must be turned away, you have to first decide what TJ is. It says that it is for serious Christians and those who seek Christ.

You must be circumcised and follow the law is a serious issue to deal with. The current study that I have been trying to work out is based on this issue. I personally understand that Gentile believers are under no obligation to do so and that it is discourage greatly to them by Paul. I am not sure about Jewish believers though.

The most difficult thing about moderating TJ has to be deciding how far to let something go before moderating. Since Christianity is about Christ and not about us, a forum in his honor would definitely have to honor him. This forum calls itself a non-denominational online church. The bible specifically states what is and is not allowed in the church (assembly of believers). Oddly enough, it is said that one should reject heretics after the first or second admonition. It also says that there will be damnable heresies among us. Does this mean that all heresy such as making gentiles become circumcised and keep the law should be ejected? If so then the standard by which the forum must be moderated is the standard belief of the moderator, even if said moderator is in error.

One possible end is that Jesus himself would be moderated out of the forum. Either way it is a difficult task and I appreciate your efforts to do the right thing. You are one on here who I truly believe tries to do what is right. I pray that God will give you great wisdom and discernment. Remember the words of our Lord "Out of the over abundance of the mouth, the heart speaketh"

In Christ

Gary

Good Morning Gary:

Jesus would never be moderated out of any forum. He is pretty wise and has always shown simple words are better than many.

I myself consider some Christian religious nuts very dangerous. They are this way due to their own mislead views and most likely Satan has a hand in it too, for example some person whose mind is messed up may kill his or her family so they can go see God. In doing so they commit even more sins.

But ya know, I think Jesus knows these things and is so understanding and merciful that they are forgiven. As physical life is not as important as ones spiritual life. We as men cannot hope to understand the highly intelligent and compassionate ways of God.

So about your circumcision study, there is not a lot to study. It is so simple actually. In the old way when God sat on earth men had laws, traditions and commands from God to live by and to show them how to live and the commands convicted them of sin. Circumcision was simply a command from God To Moses to show acceptance and a religious rite if you will to conduct the process. Some laws that God commanded were for men, for men to hold to and to be important to man and encourage man and God understands the human mind so very well. So this was for man, commanded by God, for the times. It simply said, I belong to God, and I honor God. A statement of ownership. As for it being for the Jews, hey, God is God and he picked that race as his, he owns it and it is his right and privilege to do as he wishes. There is a lesson even in this, to not allow jealousy and prejudice and many other things to try to rule you, if I one day must take orders from a person picked by God that is cool. Whatever God would wish me to do is cool with me. I suppose it takes total acceptance and the total turning over of your free will to understand this . In my life I finally learned that my free will works much better when I allow Jesus to have it.

So Jesus came and gave his life for us. Careful study of the old testament shows that Jesus was before even this time, and God played it out so that Jesus would provide the ultimate and final sacrifice for us. This was for both us and for himself. It provides a way of hope and salvation for us, and a way for God to walk with us also. It is more or less symbolic for us, for man, a way of God to provide for us, to impress us and to cause us to understand. Something for man to hold unto and also a way for God to be with us.

In doing this the law and Holy Spirit was placed inside us, it is now an internal thing. God ripped the veil in the old Temple and placed the law inside of us. It is what we call our conscious. If someone does something you do not like and your instant thought is to smack them, and your mind says, hey let it go and open the door for them, this is the Holy Spirit working in you.

So circumcision was a command for the times. A show of ownership as God is and will always be the owner of not only the Jews his chosen people but also of us. So it was a way of rite. It was for that time. Now it is not required, as a symbolic show of obeying and ownership. This is all internal and God now works in us with the Holy Spirit.

Now becoming circumcised is also fine. It simply does not matter if one wishes to or not and in the modern world this is done in the USA and in other areas to as a matter of hygiene and really has no other significance. Religious rites and ceremony have no further meanings, but they are still ok if man wishes to conduct them. But ok if you do not wish to also.

I guess it is hard for some to understand, so saying it simple as I can, Jesus gave his life for our salvation and for a way to relate to us his creation, and provided a way of grace and a simple way for us to understand and to follow him. It is so very simple, you ask for Jesus to guide you and lead you and he does so. When men try to take this simple way and complicate it then they become mislead and become religious nuts and bad things can and do happen due to the mind becoming confused.

So one has a simple requirement today, just go as a child to Jesus. Do not try to be so intelligent and smart. It is not a requirement. All Jesus asks is to accept, to say Hi, and develop a relationship with him.

I pray that God will grant you the wisdom to understand the simple message and not make it so complicated that you cannot accept it.

In the honored name of Jesus. Just tell him Hi.

Respectfully

Kit

 

[Stickz]

Kit: Jesus would never be moderated out of any forum. He is pretty wise and has always shown simple words are better than many.

You really think that the church people of today are that much different than those that Jesus dealt with two thousand years ago?

Kit: I myself consider some Christian religious nuts very dangerous. They are this way due to their own mislead views and most likely Satan has a hand in it too, for example some person whose mind is messed up may kill his or her family so they can go see God. In doing so they commit even more sins.

But ya know, I think Jesus knows these things and is so understanding and merciful that they are forgiven. Forgiven? As in without even having to ask for it, Kit? As physical life is not as important as ones spiritual life. We as men cannot hope to understand the highly intelligent and compassionate ways of God.

Kit: In doing this the law and Holy Spirit was placed inside us, it is now an internal thing. God ripped the veil in the old Temple and placed the law inside of us. It is what we call our conscious. If someone does something you do not like and your instant thought is to smack them, and your mind says, hey let it go and open the door for them, this is the Holy Spirit working in you.

Kit, it sounds to me like you are suggesting that people didn't have a conscience before Jesus died on the cross?

John 8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

John 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

Hebrews 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Hebrews 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

If the Holy Spirit and the Law being placed inside of us is now our conscience, I was born this way because I have always had a conscience. It doesn't surprise me that a lot of you are being led around by your own conscience though. Makes perfect sense, actually.

 

[Christ4Ever]

If the Holy Spirit and the Law being placed inside of us is now our conscience, I was born this way because I have always had a conscience. It doesn't surprise me that a lot of you are being led around by your own conscience though. Makes perfect sense, actually.

LOL....I won't use "a lot of you" since in more probability there are a great many that are still in the feeling out process of their walk. That they may yet still at times depend on their own conscience, is part of their growth, and eventually their total dependence or should I say surrender to God and not themselves is yet in the future. Let’s uplift, support, correct when needed, but always in Love that even those that don’t agree with what has presented to them, will also know that it was done out of Love.
With all Love YBIC

 

[Kit Carson]

You really think that the church people of today are that much different than those that Jesus dealt with two thousand years ago?


Kit, it sounds to me like you are suggesting that people didn't have a conscience before Jesus died on the cross?

John 8:8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

John 8:9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Romans 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Romans 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

Hebrews 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;

Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Hebrews 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

If the Holy Spirit and the Law being placed inside of us is now our conscience, I was born this way because I have always had a conscience. It doesn't surprise me that a lot of you are being led around by your own conscience though. Makes perfect sense, actually.

Lol! Yes Sir, let me explain. I will use me, I am open and the lessons of life I enjoy passing on.

Let us say I go to the supply house to purchase some materials and I tell the clerk that I want two 20 foot sections of drain pipe. He rings everything up and forgets about the drain pipes. Now used to I would justify that to myself something like, oh stuff is too high priced anyway, hey it was not me that made the mistake, and about a hundred other ways I can excuse it. This is quite simply stealing. Sure my conscious tried to talk to me, but hey it did no good.

Now the Holy Spirit will really talk to me and if I do something wrong and do not correct it , it will dwell on me until I do go fix it. And I will not do these kinds of things anymore to begin with. It is not just me, I have a guide. One that does speak to me about many things, in life, business, compassion, anger, humor, all things.

My way is gone, has been for some time. And accepted is the guidance of the Holy Spirit. A great understanding of things also becomes revealed. This did not happen till one day I finally told God, OK I surrender, you win. I can assure you it is not just me. There is a desire in me to do the right thing , all the time. That did not happen all by itself. I still get tempted to do this or do that, but that little voice says, no you dummy, that is not right.

Kit

 

[Stickz]

Kit

I didn't always ignore my conscience, even before giving my life to God, but it's always interesting to see how others explain things, thanks, Kit.

Explain your "Religious Nut" example to me , Kit. Are you saying that this "Religious Nut" could "do his/her family in" but already have forgiveness from God without even having asked for it because he/she was saved beforehand?

 

[jiggyfly]

Getting off topic, please start a new thread.

 

[Kit Carson]

Kit

I didn't always ignore my conscience, even before giving my life to God, but it's always interesting to see how others explain things, thanks, Kit.

Explain your "Religious Nut" example to me , Kit. Are you saying that this "Religious Nut" could "do his/her family in" but already have forgiveness from God without even having asked for it because he/she was saved beforehand?

Kinda somewhat, but not exactly, will P.M, the moderator wishes us to not stray from the original topic. We got to talking from the heart and it went astray......

Kit

 

[gdemoss]

He is pretty wise and has always shown simple words are better than many.

Just a note: This statement was followed by 858 words of explanation.

Thanks for the laugh Kit.

 

[Kit Carson]

Just a note: This statement was followed by 858 words of explanation.

Thanks for the laugh Kit.

:coocoo::shade:Kit

 

[Stickz]

Sorry, jiggy, I was just following the train of thought, wasn't trying to change the subject.