Apologetics vs One's Integrity

[Beetow]

It's very difficult to find a Christian with integrity, viz: one that can produce a
direct answer to a direct question about their beliefs and practices.

When a rational skeptic points out that some of God's actions are not only
unreasonable, but also downright evil, selfish, and sadistic; the average Christian
typically circles the wagons, i.e. they become defensive. Instead of forthrightly
agreeing that the critical thinker's appraisals make sense; the defensive Christian
waxes eloquent with a bombastic discourse, deftly concealing the unspeakable truth
that they too have sometimes entertained the very same opinions.

I sincerely believe God appreciates honesty and totally despises deceit. So; if
perchance the day comes when God asks each of us point blank:

Was there ever a time when you felt that some of my actions were unreasonable,
unfair, inhumane, selfish, cruel, and/or the work of a mad man?

Or:

Was there ever at time when you wished I didn't exist?

The answers coming out of our mouths better not be what we think He wants to
hear, or some scripted response learned in church, rather; exactly what He knows
already, i.e. it had better not be equivocation, sophistry, or tiresome rhetoric, no, it
had better be a crisp Yes or a No; and it had better be honest.
_

 

[joestue]

interesting question. personally, no. given enough time, so far everything has made sense.

 

[Waggles]

The answers coming out of our mouths better not be what we think He wants to hear, or some scripted response learned in church,

 

[JerryfromMass]

It's very difficult to find a Christian with integrity, viz: one that can produce a
direct answer to a direct question about their beliefs and practices.

When a rational skeptic points out that some of God's actions are not only
unreasonable, but also downright evil, selfish, and sadistic; the average Christian
typically circles the wagons, i.e. they become defensive. Instead of forthrightly
agreeing that the critical thinker's appraisals make sense; the defensive Christian
waxes eloquent with a bombastic discourse, deftly concealing the unspeakable truth
that they too have sometimes entertained the very same opinions.

I sincerely believe God appreciates honesty and totally despises deceit. So; if
perchance the day comes when God asks each of us point blank:

Was there ever a time when you felt that some of my actions were unreasonable,
unfair, inhumane, selfish, cruel, and/or the work of a mad man?

Or:

Was there ever at time when you wished I didn't exist?

The answers coming out of our mouths better not be what we think He wants to
hear, or some scripted response learned in church, rather; exactly what He knows
already, i.e. it had better not be equivocation, sophistry, or tiresome rhetoric, no, it
had better be a crisp Yes or a No; and it had better be honest.
_

Rational skeptic? Are you, @Beetow, always prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you? What is your reason for the hope that is in you? Do you even have hope? Do you have faith? What is your defense to the"rational skeptic"? Or are you just another one of those CINO's?

Science. Nature. The order in the world and the cosmos. The fact that the universe had a beginning and did not come from the absence of anything. The fact that history affirms the Bible in that the Bible is a compilation of preserved and reliable historical documents written by eyewitnesses during the lifetimes of other eyewitnesses who report supernatural events occurred that fulfilled written prophecy from hundreds and thousands of years beforehand that are divine rather than human in origin. All of the foregoing point to a creator God and the risen Christ. If the skeptic remains a skeptic, it's not for lack of evidence; it's because they prefer to live as though they aren't accountable to a Supreme Creator God. They prefer their sins over truth and darkness over light.

 

[Beetow]

What is your defense to the"rational skeptic"?

I prefer to sympathize with skeptics seeing as how I and they have many opinions
in common; for example:

GOD: Was there ever a time when you felt that some of My actions were
unreasonable, unfair, inhumane, selfish, cruel, and/or the work of a mad man?

ME: Yes.

GOD: Was there ever at time when you wished I didn't exist?

ME: Yes.

The Bible encourages Christ's followers to come before the throne of grace with
boldness. (Heb 4:15-16). The Greek word for boldness is parrhesia (par-rhay-see'
ah) which means all out-spokenness, i.e. frankness, bluntness, and/or candor.

For many years I suppressed my deepest thoughts and feelings about God, and
about Jesus too, because those thoughts and feelings were just too unholy to out.
Thus I kept a certain amount of my innermost being secret from God. Well; in time
I came to a realization that keeping secrets from God is not only stressful, but also
quite futile.

Transparency is a popular buzz word that roughly means free from pretense or
deceit. When I see a Christian go ballistic with an apologetic like the one in post
No.4, I know they're hiding something, and terrified that somebody will come
along and figure it out.
_

 

[JerryfromMass]

I prefer to sympathize with skeptics seeing as how I and they have many opinions
in common; for example:

GOD: Was there ever a time when you felt that some of My actions were
unreasonable, unfair, inhumane, selfish, cruel, and/or the work of a mad man?

ME: Yes.

GOD: Was there ever at time when you wished I didn't exist?

ME: Yes.

The Bible encourages Christ's followers to come before the throne of grace with
boldness. (Heb 4:15-16). The Greek word for boldness is parrhesia (par-rhay-see'
ah) which means all out-spokenness, i.e. frankness, bluntness, and/or candor.

For many years I suppressed my deepest thoughts and feelings about God, and
about Jesus too, because those thoughts and feelings were just too unholy to out.
Thus I kept a certain amount of my innermost being secret from God. Well; in time
I came to a realization that keeping secrets from God is not only stressful, but also
quite futile.

Transparency is a popular buzz word that roughly means free from pretense or
deceit. When I see a Christian go ballistic with an apologetic like the one in post
No.4, I know they're hiding something, and terrified that somebody will come
along and figure it out.
_

Sympathize with skeptics and non-skeptics alike, but if you are a child of the living God you must also be always prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you? Once again, what say you @Beetow: what is your reason for the hope that is in you?

We all have or had doubts; my doubts are gone. I have no secrets with God; HE knows every bitter thought I have ever had and every evil deed I have ever committed, all all are forgiven - HE is my Savior and Lord.

How about you @Beetow: is JESUS your Savior and Lord?

 

[Brad Huber]

I prefer to sympathize with skeptics seeing as how I and they have many opinions
in common; for example:

GOD: Was there ever a time when you felt that some of My actions were
unreasonable, unfair, inhumane, selfish, cruel, and/or the work of a mad man?

ME: Yes.

GOD: Was there ever at time when you wished I didn't exist?

ME: Yes.

The Bible encourages Christ's followers to come before the throne of grace with
boldness. (Heb 4:15-16). The Greek word for boldness is parrhesia (par-rhay-see'
ah) which means all out-spokenness, i.e. frankness, bluntness, and/or candor.

For many years I suppressed my deepest thoughts and feelings about God, and
about Jesus too, because those thoughts and feelings were just too unholy to out.
Thus I kept a certain amount of my innermost being secret from God. Well; in time
I came to a realization that keeping secrets from God is not only stressful, but also
quite futile.

Transparency is a popular buzz word that roughly means free from pretense or
deceit. When I see a Christian go ballistic with an apologetic like the one in post
No.4, I know they're hiding something, and terrified that somebody will come
along and figure it out.
_

Ignorance speaks without understanding. Wisdom accepts they are not God of all that exists, unknowing of the truths that lay at the foundation of all things, and doesnt tell the potter how to do his work, when they have no concept of how it works best.

 

[JerryfromMass]

I prefer to sympathize with skeptics seeing as how I and they have many opinions
in common; for example:

GOD: Was there ever a time when you felt that some of My actions were
unreasonable, unfair, inhumane, selfish, cruel, and/or the work of a mad man?

ME: Yes.

GOD: Was there ever at time when you wished I didn't exist?

ME: Yes.

The Bible encourages Christ's followers to come before the throne of grace with
boldness. (Heb 4:15-16). The Greek word for boldness is parrhesia (par-rhay-see'
ah) which means all out-spokenness, i.e. frankness, bluntness, and/or candor.

For many years I suppressed my deepest thoughts and feelings about God, and
about Jesus too, because those thoughts and feelings were just too unholy to out.
Thus I kept a certain amount of my innermost being secret from God. Well; in time
I came to a realization that keeping secrets from God is not only stressful, but also
quite futile.

Transparency is a popular buzz word that roughly means free from pretense or
deceit. When I see a Christian go ballistic with an apologetic like the one in post
No.4, I know they're hiding something, and terrified that somebody will come
along and figure it out.
_

Since you are so quick to criticize my defense of my faith, what exactly do you, @Beetow, have against my defense of the reason for the hope that is in me?

Moreover, other than you sympathizing with skeptics/atheists, what is your defense for the reason for the hope that is in you? Or, since you have trouble answering that question, do you even have a defense? Do you even have hope?

 

[Beetow]

what is your defense for the reason for the hope that is in you? Or, since you have
trouble answering that question, do you even have a defense? Do you even have
hope?

Your inquiry is off-topic Jerry. This thread isn't about me, nor is it about you. It's
about apologetics and integrity.

Try answering the six questions listed below with a straight up Yes or a No sans
excuses, explanations, and/or canned responses. If your answers are too personal,
then it's okay to remain silent, but keeping in mind that one day you may be
required to stand before God and give an answer for yourself openly and honestly
rather than secretly.

For example: the Lord most likely knew in advance Peter's innermost thoughts
when asked how he felt about Jesus (John 21:15-17). But the Lord wasn't satisfied
till Peter came out with his feelings one on one, face to face, man to man.

1» Was there ever a time when you felt that God should've stepped in to prevent
the Serpent from tempting Eve?

2» Was there ever a time when you resented God's control over your life?

3» Was there ever a time when you were dissatisfied with Hades and/or the Lake Of
Fire? In other words: was there a time when you felt those punishments go too far,
i.e. they're over-kill; too extreme.

4» God knew in advance that He would regret creating humankind, and that He
would be drowning most of it in a global deluge; yet went ahead and created people
anyway. Has there ever been a time when you felt there was something sick and
twisted about God for doing that?

5» Was there ever a time when you felt that some of God's actions were
unreasonable, unfair, inhumane, selfish, cruel, and/or the work of a mad man?

6» Was there ever a time when you wished God didn't exist?

The questions themselves don't really matter all that much. What matters most is
whether you answer them honestly; because in order to establish a productive
rapport with God, people have to be transparent rather than secretive. So don't
beat around the bush; and whatever you do, avoid trying God's patience; just
answer Him forthrightly and get it over with.
_

 

[JerryfromMass]

Your inquiry is off-topic Jerry. This thread isn't about me, nor is it about you. It's
about apologetics and integrity.

Try answering the six questions listed below with a straight up Yes or a No sans
excuses, explanations, and/or canned responses. If your answers are too personal,
then it's okay to remain silent, but keeping in mind that one day you may be
required to stand before God and give an answer for yourself openly and honestly
rather than secretly.

For example: the Lord most likely knew in advance Peter's innermost thoughts
when asked how he felt about Jesus (John 21:15-17). But the Lord wasn't satisfied
till Peter came out with his feelings one on one, face to face, man to man.

1» Was there ever a time when you felt that God should've stepped in to prevent
the Serpent from tempting Eve?

2» Was there ever a time when you resented God's control over your life?

3» Was there ever a time when you were dissatisfied with Hades and/or the Lake Of
Fire? In other words: was there a time when you felt those punishments go too far,
i.e. they're over-kill; too extreme.

4» God knew in advance that He would regret creating humankind, and that He
would be drowning most of it in a global deluge; yet went ahead and created people
anyway. Has there ever been a time when you felt there was something sick and
twisted about God for doing that?

5» Was there ever a time when you felt that some of God's actions were
unreasonable, unfair, inhumane, selfish, cruel, and/or the work of a mad man?

6» Was there ever a time when you wished God didn't exist?

The questions themselves don't really matter all that much. What matters most is
whether you answer them honestly; because in order to establish a productive
rapport with God, people have to be transparent rather than secretive. So don't
beat around the bush; and whatever you do, avoid trying God's patience; just
answer Him forthrightly and get it over with.
_

My answer, even though (as you said) it's not about me:

1. No
2. No
3. No
4. No
5. No
6. No

I have never not believed in God, or in his almighty power, or that HE always had a greater plan because HE is God, even though many years of my life I lived contrary to how he wanted me to live.

You still refuse to answer any questions I've asked and you don't even answer questions you ask others. There's a term for that:

 

[Reba1]

God being God can only be Godly . If that does not fit into someone's idea of what is Godly, just , fair , righteous, etc. does not matter.

 

[Hekuran]

I commune with my heart in the night;
I meditate and search my spirit:
“Will the Lord spurn forever,
and never again be favorable?
Has his steadfast love ceased forever?
Are his promises at an end for all time?
Has God forgotten to be gracious?
Has he in anger shut up his compassion?”

The Bible - in the psalms and book of job especially - gives us permission to ask the most difficult and searching questions of God.

I've asked most of them at one time or another.

Whatever the nature of the question, intellectual or emotional, I've usually found the resolution in looking again at the person and work of Jesus Christ.

 

[Beetow]

Whatever the nature of the question, intellectual or emotional, I've usually found
the resolution in looking again at the person and work of Jesus Christ.

Some day you may be called upon to answer the six questions listed in post
No.9. What will you do then? Quote the Bible, recite an apologetic; in hopes
that'll get you off the hook?

Speaking for myself: I look forward to a sit down with God with about as much
pleasure as I look forward to a root canal; and like a root canal; I will be very glad
when it's over because I suspect that the grilling we're all facing won't be pleasant.

There are many questions in life that we can brush off as too personal or "I don't
know" but God can't be brushed off. If we try, He will only dig in His heels and force
the issue till we finally break.
_

 

[Hekuran]

If i do get asked those questions in the future, giving honest answers wouldn't make me break into a sweat.

 

[Beetow]

If i do get asked those questions in the future, giving honest answers
wouldn't make me break into a sweat.

Ah! Very good. Thank you!

Were I a North Korean telling Kim Jong Un exactly what I think of him and
his politics, no doubt that self-deified maniac would have me executed on
the spot-- brutally executed. But I don't fear God like that because although
He sometimes appears brutal, I know that opposite His judgmental side is a
lenient side that appreciates, and rewards, candor.
_

 

[Brad Huber]

Ah! Very good. Thank you!

Were I a North Korean telling Kim Jong Un exactly what I think of him and
his politics, no doubt that self-deified maniac would have me executed on
the spot-- brutally executed. But I don't fear God like that because although
He sometimes appears brutal, I know that opposite His judgmental side is a
lenient side that appreciates, and rewards, candor.
_

Lenient, yes, forgiving, yes, appreciating honesty, yes. Rewards? Did God reward Job's friends?

 

[Beetow]

Lenient, yes, forgiving, yes, appreciating honesty, yes. Rewards? Did God reward
Job's friends?

I've not spent much time with the book of Job; but it seems to me that much of his
friends' dialogue concealed an ulterior motive: they were fault finders intent upon
prosecuting Job, i.e. proving that he got what was coming to him. In that respect,
they misrepresented God, and quite likely deliberately misrepresented Him in order
to make their case, i.e. it looks to me they used God as a club for bashing Job.
_

 

[Brad Huber]

I've not spent much time with the book of Job; but it seems to me that much of his
friends' dialogue concealed an ulterior motive: they were fault finders intent upon
prosecuting Job, i.e. proving that he got what was coming to him. In that respect,
they misrepresented God, and quite likely deliberately misrepresented Him in order
to make their case, i.e. it looks to me they used God as a club for bashing Job.
_

And how did God respond to Job? He did forgive Job his own righteous rabblings and how he didnt deserve what was happening to him. Did God just say, its okay Job, I respect your honesty?

 

[Hekuran]

What God said about Job

After the Lord had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has. So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.

 

[Beetow]

But I don't fear God like that because although He sometimes appears brutal, I
know that opposite His judgmental side is a lenient side that appreciates, and
rewards, candor.

I don't know how we got off track with Job and his friends because that statement was
meant to be relative to one's communications with God rather than one's
communications with neighbors, friends, relatives, and/or associates. For example:

• Heb 4:16 . . Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may
obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

The Greek word translated boldly is from parrhesia (par-rhay-see' ah) which means
all out-spokenness, i.e. frankness, bluntness, and/or candor.

If people come before the throne with deceit, dissembling, dishonesty, guile, and/or
reticence, I think they should probably forget about obtaining the mercy and grace
spoken of in that passage; which bounces us back to the six questions listed in post
No.9

Honesty is definitely going to be the very best policy should those questions come
up during an interview with God; 'cause mankind's creator can see into the
innermost core of our being; He'll know whether we're telling the truth or keeping
secrets.
_