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Apostacy

redeemed4life

Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2012
Messages
28
When a Christian becomes an Apostate, is it fair to assume that they were not a Christian at all? Are there true conversions and false conversions? When Jesus talks about the sheep and the goats, is he referring to true believers and false believers? Is apostacy common within the church and Christian circles? What are some of the signs that one is an apostate? Are many Christians apostates?
 
When a Christian becomes an Apostate, is it fair to assume that they were not a Christian at all? Are there true conversions and false conversions? When Jesus talks about the sheep and the goats, is he referring to true believers and false believers? Is apostacy common within the church and Christian circles? What are some of the signs that one is an apostate? Are many Christians apostates?
When a Christian becomes an Apostate, is it fair to assume that they were not a Christian at all? Are there true conversions and false conversions? When Jesus talks about the sheep and the goats, is he referring to true believers and false believers? Is apostacy common within the church and Christian circles? What are some of the signs that one is an apostate? Are many Christians apostates?

Hello redeemed4life.

Greek: ἀποστασία (apostasia), 'a defection or revolt'.

Apostasy means to fall away from the truth. Therefore, an apostate is someone who has
once believed and then rejected the truth of God. In the New Testament the epistles warn
us about not falling away from the truth. The truth is Jesus Christ.


Is it fair to assume they were never a Christian?
The parable of the sower and the seed probably indicates that apostasy
definitely is the transition from belief to unbelief.

The sheep and the goats are the believers and the unbelievers.

I believe apostasy is uncommon.

Some signs of apostasy would be as follows;
1 Unbelief in Jesus Christ primarily.
2 A rejection of the primary doctrines of Christianity.

3 Avoidance of fellowship.
4 Distrust of the scriptures.

This is only a brief answer redeemed4life.
 
By the above definition I'm an apostate. I used to believe in the message of Jesus and now I don't. If we define a christian as one who believes then I definitely used to be one. Hope that helps answer your question.
 
Sometimes people recognize it when they turn away. Most of the time they don't.

Joseph Smith and the Mormon church is a good example. They don't see themselves as turning away from the truth.
They see themselves as having received an enlightenment of the truth the rest of us don't have.
In their opinion, they turned "toward" the truth, rather than away from it.

I would say most apostates don't recognize that they are apostates.
 
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Once a person truly believes in Christ they are born of God and cannot be unborn. *puts eternal security hat on now*. In that sense.. apostasy is falling away.. but not to a state of being unsaved after being saved (that is impossible,.. again *eternal security hat*).

Matt 25:31 - When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne.All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

Notice this is referring to when Jesus comes back.. sheep and goats is not a general principle in the body of Christ. All those in God's church, all believers, are sheep! Yes, some sick sheep, and some almost dead sheep, some confused sheep who say they used to be sheep but now they don't believe they are sheep.. some sheep that don't even know they are a sheep.. but still sheep.. big difference between sick sheep and a goat. Sheep and goats refers to the people of the nations still alive after the tribulation period.. or at Christ's return (depending on if you believe in pre or mid or post trib or preterism etc etc). When the Lord speaks about giving water, visiting in prison, the sick etc.. He is talking about the events in the tribulation period.. we will need water, believers will be in prison,, and will be sick without medical care. Those gentiles who give assistance to Christians (and Jews) during the tribulation period.. they will be rewarded by Christ..they are sheep.. those who don't.. are goats. We need to stop interpreting everything Jesus says in terms of belief and works, salvation or no salvation, heaven or hell.. true or false.. it's in the realm of tree of knowledge of good and evil, try to use our spirit to interpret scripture rather than just our mind then you'll get a better understanding. I used to think sheep and goats were in the church, or is what happens in heaven.. but then my eyes were opened..it's talking about end-time events.

If we believe in pretrib rapture.. these sheep n goats are not Christian believers..they were already raptured... but good and bad gentiles. This is proved by the Lord judging them by their works and not by their faith in Him. If post trib .. well it's all the people, believers included, who survived the tribulation period. Their reward is to dwell under Christ's reign for 1000 years, and under the rule of the Christian believers, some who will be in charge of 5 cities, some 10 cities. etc.
 
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By the above definition I'm an apostate. I used to believe in the message of Jesus and now I don't. If we define a christian as one who believes then I definitely used to be one. Hope that helps answer your question.

Hello Strangederby.

You might be interested in the following material?

Dead Sea Scrolls;
The Isaiah Scroll, designated 1Qlsa and also known as the Great Isaiah Scroll, was found in a
cave near the Dead Sea (Qumran Cave 1) with six other scrolls by Bedouin shepherds in 1947,
later known as the Dead Sea Scrolls. The scroll is written in Hebrew and contains the entire
Book of Isaiah from beginning to end, apart from a few small damaged portions....
Pieces of the Isaiah Scroll have been carbon-14 dated at least four times, giving calibrated
date ranges between 335-324 BC and 202-107 BC; there have also been numerous paleographic
and scribal dating studies placing the scroll around 150-100 BC.

(wikipedia)

It is of vital importance that you note the dating applied to the dead
sea scrolls. Between 300-100 years before Jesus Christ was born, these
are official date ranges. Also remember that these scrolls are copies of course
of earlier versions of the Book of Isaiah.

These two Isaiah scrolls are identical to the book of Isaiah contained in the

Old Testament. There is only a handful of spelling mistakes in the comparison
of the Dead Sea Isaiah Scroll with the current version.

So what is the importance of the Book of Isaiah?

It is in the Book of Isaiah that a number of prophetic statements occur regarding a
Jewish messiah. It is these prophecies that explain and allow us to pinpoint who the
messiah really is.


Here is just one of these prophetic statements;

Isaiah 7
13 Then he said, Hear now, O house of David!
Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will you weary my God also?
14 Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign:
Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.

A virgin will bear a Son and His name will be God with us?

What an incredible statement to read in a very old book!

Why did the author of Isaiah make such an absurd statement?

No virgin can concieve! His name will be God!

Who would believe in such a ridiculous piece of literature?

A virgin did in fact bear the child that would be heralded
as the King Of Israel, God Himself.


Feel free to not believe in Jesus Christ if you wish, I have

no choice but to believe. It is the forced conclusion based
on official evidence. Jesus Christ is a fact, Jesus Christ is God.
 
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By the above definition I'm an apostate. I used to believe in the message of Jesus and now I don't. If we define a christian as one who believes then I definitely used to be one. Hope that helps answer your question.

If you were a true believer than you still would be one. The keeping power of the Holy Spirit in solid. I wonder what has happened in your life to be a "God seeker to I no longer am interested ?"

farout
 
If you were a true believer than you still would be one. The keeping power of the Holy Spirit in solid. I wonder what has happened in your life to be a "God seeker to I no longer am interested ?"

farout

Well I used to believe..... in the sense that I believe the sun exists or that the world is round. These days I don't. I'd be interested to know what the difference is between someone who believes and a true believer.

No major event happened to stop me believing. I just gradually decided that I should look for evidence and didn't find any.
 
Well I used to believe..... in the sense that I believe the sun exists or that the world is round. These days I don't. I'd be interested to know what the difference is between someone who believes and a true believer.

No major event happened to stop me believing. I just gradually decided that I should look for evidence and didn't find any.



The devil and his demons believe that Jesus is God too. But a true Christian is a follower of Jesus and proof of a genuine Christian is endurance. THe LORD gives the faith and the endurance, we follow because we love Him. You were a God knower, but never really responded to His love. The added hindrance is you may have such a hard heart you will never trust Jesus to save you from your sins. The book of Hebrews tells us to respond while you can still hear the Holy Spirits pleading. Hebrews also tells us it's a awful thing to fall into the hands of an angery God. Not acknowledging Jesus as you Savior is a unforgivable sin, and when you die Hebrews (:27 says after death comes the judgement. There are no second chances after our death.

My question for you is why not now surrender to Jesus Christ and become a follower ? Are really sure you want to go with the devil and his demons for eternal torement in hell? It is your choice and no one else can stop you from eternal punishment. You may well have rejected Jesus for the last time, and there may never be another call from the Hold Spirit to surerender to Jesus to save you. It is all up to you !


farout
 
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