Are some people predestined for hell no matter what they do.

[Curtis]

He didn't say the Kingdom in Heaven. If someone said to you, "this ice cream is heavenly" would you assume it was in Heaven?

Are heavenly places Heaven?

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

 

[Butch5]

Are heavenly places Heaven?

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

It's heavenly things not places. But, even if it was places it's still Heavenly. Heavenly is an adjective. It modifies, gives qualities of, the noun it is modifying. So heavenly places wouldn't mean in Heaven. As I said in the other post, if someone says this ice cream is heavenly we wouldn't think it was in Heaven

 

[Curtis]

It's heavenly things not places. But, even if it was places it's still Heavenly. Heavenly is an adjective. It modifies, gives qualities of, the noun it is modifying. So heavenly places wouldn't mean in Heaven. As I said in the other post, if someone says this ice cream is heavenly we wouldn't think it was in Heaven

ἐν
en; prep. governing the dat. In, on, at, by any place or thing, with the primary idea of rest. As compared with eis (G1519), into or unto, and ek (G1537), out of or from, it stands between the two; eis implies motion into, and ek motion out of, while en, in, means remaining in place.
(I) Of place, which is the primary and most frequent use and spoken of everything which is conceived as being, remaining, taking place, meaning within some definite space or limits, in, on, at, by.

Since it is referring to "in Christ" that is the "thing, and or "place" in which all born again Christians are!

Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

 

[Butch5]

ἐν
en; prep. governing the dat. In, on, at, by any place or thing, with the primary idea of rest. As compared with eis (G1519), into or unto, and ek (G1537), out of or from, it stands between the two; eis implies motion into, and ek motion out of, while en, in, means remaining in place.
(I) Of place, which is the primary and most frequent use and spoken of everything which is conceived as being, remaining, taking place, meaning within some definite space or limits, in, on, at, by.

Since it is referring to "in Christ" that is the "thing, and or "place" in which all born again Christians are!

Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Are you inside of Christ? Remember Jesus is a flesh and bone human being.

 

[Brother Paul]

Jesus said the transfiguration was a vision. In Mathew. Also Peter says it was a preview of the Second Coming.

Im sure where you're going with the Rev 7 passage. Are you suggesting they are dead?

Matthew writes “17 gAnd after six days Jesus took with him hPeter and James, and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 And he was itransfigured before them, and jhis face shone like the sun, and khis clothes became white as light. 3 And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him.”

And Mark says (which is Peter's memoir) “After six days Jesus took with him Peter and James and John, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. And he was transfigured before them, and his clothes became radiant, intensely white, as no one on earth could bleach them. And there appeared to them Elijah with Moses, and they were talking with Jesus.”

Nothing says it was a vision, and Moses and Elijah were there in spirit form with Jesus talking and then in Revelations 7 these are the multitude who had passed from this world but were still alive (dead in body only)....one group (Revelations 20) is described as those souls who lost their head in the Tribulation...yet there they are in the Throne room....

“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

So we have Jesus, Matthew, Peter, Mark, Paul, and John as witnesses to our life after death of the body

 

[Curtis]

Are you inside of Christ? Remember Jesus is a flesh and bone human being.

Any man who is not in Christ is none of his!

2Co 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Rom 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Rom 16:9 Salute Urbane, our helper in Christ, and Stachys my beloved.
Rom 16:10 Salute Apelles approved in Christ. Salute them which are of Aristobulus' household.

1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

1Co 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

1Co 4:17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

 

[Butch5]

Any man who is not in Christ is none of his!

2Co 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

Rom 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Rom 16:9 Salute Urbane, our helper in Christ, and Stachys my beloved.
Rom 16:10 Salute Apelles approved in Christ. Salute them which are of Aristobulus' household.

1Co 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

1Co 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

1Co 4:17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

I don't know why you posted these. Are you inside of Jesus? He's human, are you inside of him?

 

[Curtis]

I don't know why you posted these. Are you inside of Jesus? He's human, are you inside of him?

Why don't make a pole and see how many believers believe that they are in Christ Jesus.?

 

[Butch5]

Why don't make a pole and see how many believers believe that they are in Christ Jesus.?

You're equivocating on the word in. In the passage in Eph 2 your using it literally and in the these other passages its figurative. That's doesn't prove your argument

 

[Curtis]

You're equivocating on the word in. In the passage in Eph 2 your using it literally and in the these other passages its figurative. That's doesn't prove your argument

That is only your opinion which does not change what scripture says.

 

[Butch5]

That is only your opinion which does not change what scripture says.

It's not an opinion. If you're goning to claim Eph 2 literally then thepassagea you.poat to prove it have to be literal. You can't equivocate.

 

[Curtis]

It's not an opinion. If you're goning to claim Eph 2 literally then thepassagea you.poat to prove it have to be literal. You can't equivocate.

This thinking is also just your opinion that does nothing to change what the word of God has stated!

 

[Butch5]

This thinking is also just your opinion that does nothing to change what the word of God has stated!

If anything you're the one trying to change it. Youre trying to say it's literal yet won't answer the obvious problem your.sll statement creates. Are you on earth? If so then you're not in Heaven. Are you literally inside of Jesus?

I think most people understand that being in Christ means following Him. Paul likens it to baptism. I don't think most Christians believe they are running around inside of Jesus' body.

 

[Curtis]

If anything you're the one trying to change it. Youre trying to say it's literal yet won't answer the obvious problem your.sll statement creates. Are you on earth? If so then you're not in Heaven. Are you literally inside of Jesus?

I think most people understand that being in Christ means following Him. Paul likens it to baptism. I don't think most Christians believe they are running around inside of Jesus' body.

I am in Christ and Christ is in me!!! Do not blame me that you refuse to believe what the word of God says. Take your complaint to the Lord and see what he says.

 

[Curtis]

I think most people understand

This is the problem, "I think" has no connection to truth. Truth is in the knowing, not in the "I think". Do a pole on this forum and see what other believers actually believe about being in Christ, and Christ in them!

 

[Butch5]

I am in Christ and Christ is in me!!! Do not blame me that you refuse to believe what the word of God says. Take your complaint to the Lord and see what he says.

That has nothing to do with what we are discussing. Are you on earth? If so them you're not in Heaven

 

[Butch5]

This is the problem, "I think" has no connection to truth. Truth is in the knowing, not in the "I think". Do a pole on this forum and see what other believers actually believe about being in Christ, and Christ in them!

Stop with the straw man and address the question are you.inside of Jesus' body?

 

[Butch5]

This is the problem, "I think" has no connection to truth. Truth is in the knowing, not in the "I think". Do a pole on this forum and see what other believers actually believe about being in Christ, and Christ in them!

"I think" was referring to people, not God's word. You're just proving you've go no argument

 

[Curtis]

Stop with the straw man and address the question are you.inside of Jesus' body?

If you are not you are no child of. God!

 

[Butch5]

If you are not you are no child of. God!

Your refusal to answer speaks volumes