Atheism: Part 1

[Chad]

Following are some of the approaches I use when dealing with atheists in conversations that deal with alleged lack of evidence for God's existence. Now, no argument is fool-proof and no single argument answers all the objections. Nevertheless, it is important to have thought out some of the implications of the statements and bring them up during conversations. Of course, conversations rarely follow a logical format. They usually take tangents and detours. That is normal and good. But we need to be prepared as much as possible.

1. I don't see any convincing evidence for the existence of God
   1. That does not mean there is no God.
      1. Since you cannot know all evidence, it is possible that evidence exists that proves God's existence, or at least supports his existence
         1. Therefore, it is possible that God exists.
            1. If it is possible, then faith has its place.
            2. If it is possible that God exists, then you should be an agnostic (an agnostic holds that God may exist but no proof can be had for His existence.)
   2. It is possible that there is no evidence at all for God.
      1. But this cannot be stated absolutely, since all evidence would need to be known to show there is no evidence.
         1. Therefore, since all evidence cannot be known by any one person, it is possible that evidence exists that supports theism.
   3. Then what kind of evidence would be acceptable?
      1. If you have not decided what evidence would be sufficient and reasonable, then you cannot state that there is no evidence for God.
      2. If you have decided what evidence is sufficient, what is it?
         1. Does Christianity fit within that criteria?
            1. If not, why not?
   4. Is it possible that your criteria for evidence is not reasonable?
      1. Does your criteria put a requirement upon God (if He exists) that is not realistic? For example
         1. Do you want Him to appear before you in blazing glory?
            1. Even if that did happen, would you believe he existed or would you consider it a hallucination of some sort or a trick played on you?
            2. How would you know?
      2. Does your criteria put a requirement on logic that is not realistic?
         1. Do you want him to make square circles, or some other self-contradictory phenomena or make a rock so big He cannot pick it up?
         2. If God exists, the laws of logic would be a product of his nature since he is absolute, transcendent, and truth (logical absolutes are conceptual, absolute, and transcendent which reflect a logical, absolute, and transcendent mind). He did not create the laws of logic. We simply recognize them because God exists. Therefore, God cannot violate those laws because he would violate his own nature -- which he cannot do.
   5. Are you objectively examining evidence that is presented?
      1. Granted, objectivity is difficult for all people, but are you being as objective as you can?
      2. But, do you have a presupposition that God does not exist or that the miraculous cannot occur?
         1. If so, then you cannot objectively examine the evidence.
            1. Therefore, the presuppositions you hold regarding the miraculous may prevent you from recognizing evidence for God's existence.
               1. If so, then God becomes unknowable to you and you have forced yourself into an atheistic/agnostic position.
         2. Do you define the miraculous out of existence?
            1. If so, on what basis do you do this?
      3. If you assume that science can explain all phenomena then there can be no miraculous evidence ever submitted as proof.
         1. If you made that assumption, it is, after all, only an assumption.

Article from: CARM

 

[Faithin1]

The question of scientific evidence of the existence of God, was recently posed to me by an atheist. He had mentioned that if God truly existed, we would be able to verify His existence scientifically. He then asked me if I had ever 'seen' God, or if I could present irrefutable evidence of His existence.

I told him that yes, I have 'seen' God. I see God whenever I look at a baby. I see God when I look at the sky, the moon, the stars. I see God when I look at the beautiful mountains, oceans, flowers, trees, etc. I told him that these are all creations of God, and when I look at His creations, I see His glory and majesty.

I explained that there is nothing unknown to God, and nothing impossible for Him. I told him that God knew there would be those who would question His existence, and He could have very easily made it possible for His existence to be proven scientifically, Had He so desired.

I told him that if we could easily prove the existence of God scientifically, there would be no need to have faith, and faith is the key.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him.


John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

 

[BeGood]

Usually people find, what they seek .
If you look for God, you will find God in time.
If you look other way, what's there ?
It's more reasonable to look for God, there is the safe place in this world.
How you think, can repair this world of ours ?

Revelation 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Look! The residence of God is among human beings. He will live among them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them. 21:4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death will not exist any more – or mourning, or crying, or pain, for the former things have ceased to exist.”

Revelation 21:5 And the one seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new!” Then he said to me, “Write it down, because these words are reliable and true.” 21:6 He also said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the one who is thirsty I will give water free of charge from the spring of the water of life. 21:7 The one who conquers will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be my son. 21:8 But to the cowards, unbelievers, detestable persons, murderers, the sexually immoral, and those who practice magic spells,
idol worshipers,
and all those who lie, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur. That is the second death.”

Why not believe this ?
It will happen as told.

And one point here also: can you prove death exist?
Why Bible tell, death is last enemy to be defeated ?
How you prove the real nature of death without having experienced it by yourself ?
Death came after sin, it was result of sin.

Because God can defeat death, then God does have knowledge of it.



No one can ignore God's will.
God can and will do as it is best for us.
We don't always know, what is best for us, but God don't do mistakes.
People are no way meant to live by their own advice and leading.
We need guiding from God .

Why not let God help us ?

 

[MAJ52653]

Very good. I also read CARM a lot. Best general apologetics site out there.

 

[Gracealone]

Very Good, Thanks all of you, Chad, thanks ! I will print this out for future use.

PS: Think this Grandma will hang around for awhile after all.......

 

[Lion_of_Judah]

Short answer to the statement:



There is no God..



Answer:



Yes there is... your standing right in front of me..

You obviously are god, because you know all things in the world/universe/cosmos..



...well no, I mean, that's not what I meant.....rambling continues...



:wink:

 

[Coconut]

I acknowledge the possibility that God exists, but only in the same way I acknowledge the possibility that there are magical faeries living in my basement. Since both are extremely unlikely the logical thing to do is to operate on the basis that God and fairies do not exist.

I think the logical thing to do is to operate on the basis that YOU do not exist. But I see you have written something...

Its not the job of non believers to disprove gods existence. Theists make the claim that God exists, its their job to produce evidence of his existence.

Actually, isnt it reasonable to think, that its the guy who stands the chance to lose the most, who would be most zealous to find the proof he demands?

If God cannot violate his own nature he is not Omnipotent. That very statement suggests God is bound by something that restricts his power, which is not compatible with a Omnipotent being.

hmm...God is so perfect, he cannot do anything imperfect, therefore he is not perfect as we suppose? Strange argument...

So what have we here? God = 0 Shamwow = 1 ?

 

[Gracealone]

I dont have to prove there is a God, He proved it to me.

I believed in him, then he made himself known to me.

 

[Coconut]

I dont have to prove there is a God, He proved it to me.

awesome! ~ amen

ESV Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools;

 

[sister]

blueprint

Hi Chad one believer put it this easy way to me about our one and only fingerprint!Who could say there is not a God when we each have our own unique fingerprint that is quite miraculous!!!Thank you Lord we are all different and you gave each one of us something no one else has!!You are an awesome God!!!!Love sister!!

 

[Gracealone]

awesome! ~ amen

ESV Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
Rom 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools;

Yes, Amen, we have an awesome God.

 

[RomanMD]

But if you do not require any evidence for your beliefs, than what is stopping you, or anyone else for that matter, from using that same argument for any other beliefs.

If evidence is not necessary for something to be true, should we also believe in big foot, the tooth fairy, or unicorns on Mars? Or should we require SOME evidence before accepting those beliefs as well?

 

[Boanerges]

Jesus Christ was Emmanuel or God with us. He was the very Living God come to earth. Some of the greatest proofs that can be offered came from His sworn enemies. They could not deny the miracle power, the healing, the raising of the dead for all this was performed in front of thousands. No instead they were forced to try and find "other explanations" such as "the devil is doing this". So His enemies testify that His miracles were real. If His miracles were real then He was who He said He was- God.

Jesus reckoned the Spirit of God to be like the wind in some ways; we cannot see the air but we can certainly experience the power that is manifest when it moves.

 

[Gracealone]

Also, Every prophecy ever written to fore tell, has been precisely fulfilled.
No maybe's or misses, exactly....and Chad has a thread already on those....
The future events, still to come, will be fulfilled in the same way.
Revelation ,The revealing of Jesus Christ.

 

[ImmanuelWithUs]

I dont have to prove there is a God, He proved it to me.

I believed in him, then he made himself known to me.

This is quite possibly the best quote besides scripture that I've ever read on this website (and probably the entire internet) since becoming a Christian. May Jesus Christ bless you, friend!