Atheist Changing Course

[garza33]

From the age of eight until a couple of years ago I was an atheist. Now, at 69, I realise I have been wrong.

There is one post on this board that I want to take issue with, and this is done with all due respect to the poster. There is a picture in one of the photo galleries of a sign that supposedly defines atheism. Reducing the message on the sign to it's basic meaning, it says that atheists believe that nothing plus nothing results in something, and that it all happens by chance.

This is not what atheists believe. While you may be comfortable in the thought that atheists base their beliefs on such nonsense, the truth is that you will find it impossible to reach an atheist so long as you have so little understanding of their view of existence. Many times over the years I had Christians try to witness to me, but with such a total misunderstanding of my beliefs that their words were meaningless.

Here is an example. Often a Christian would ask me if I believed in evolution, and when I said I did, he would then launch into a long argument about how the great variety of life we see on Earth could have come about by chance. I would laugh and walk away, because none of the theories of evolution are built on the notion that anything happens by chance.

Again, concerning the so-called 'big bang', a Christian would ask me how I could believe that nothing suddenly exploded and became everything, again exposing a complete misunderstanding of what I believed.

This is one reason why I remained an atheist for nearly 60 years. Had any Christian, over those years, made a real effort to understand what I believed and why I believed it, my life probably would have been very different. As long as you approach atheists believing that they believe what is on that sign in the photo gallery, you will have little luck in witnessing to them.

My own change in beliefs has come as I have studied the latest findings in quantum mechanics and their relationship to the theory of electricity. As a child I was taught that negative particles called electrons moved in clearly defined orbits around the positively charged nucleus an an atom, much as the planets in our solar system move in clearly defined orbits around the sun. Today there is some uncertainty about whether such a particle even exists except when we go looking for it. There is a good chance that almost everything we thought we knew about electricity is wrong.

As I have studied the subject, I have begun to see that the questions about who we are, why we are as we are, and what our final destiny will be have answers that lie far beyond the comprehension of the physical sciences we have relied on for so long.

The road home is long, and I may have but a short time left for the journey, but I have, at least, taken the first step.

 

[TomMann]

Blessed by your change of heart..... may many rich blessings lay ahead!

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Welcome to TalkJesus garza33 and, more importantly, welcome to the family of God! I pray that you are edified here.

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

 

[garza33]

Grateful as I am for all the welcome messages, I do find it a bit strange that no one has commented on, taken issue with, or even taken note of what I wrote. Have I touched on something that no one else wants to talk about?

 

[Tyler]

My heart jumps with joy to see you join us my friend! Welcome to the glorious body of Christ! Do not be discouraged by your so called "short" years left. God has a plan and, well you already know this, even if it is just following Him for the rest of your life, God does not give you a burden you cannot handle.


Now as to the issue of Christians not knowing how to talk to atheists and try to understand what they believe. I agree that you are right on this point, unfortunately. I am glad that you could be convinced before the time was too late.


Just continue to pray for people to learn how to reach atheists and others due to what they believe. The people who try to reach out to others without the knowledge behind what they say offend those who they are trying to win over. They want the person here and now to repent and join the body of Christ. However, I for one, realize this is not the way to go about it. We have to understand the reasons behind the persons belief if we are to keep from offending them and also showing respect. Respect and understanding can get a man far.


I plan to be either a pastor or evangelist. Either route I take I will be sure that people of the body are reaching out in an effective way.

You are right, some Christians just do not know how to reach out. However, do not be fooled. There are Christians who do know. You of all people should know that you cannot put a sticker on a group of people based on one person. Now, don't get me wrong - if I sounded like i accused you of this, that was not my intention. Just making a point.


Your brother in Christ, Tyler.
GBU

 

[SpiritLedEd]

I do find it a bit strange that no one has commented on, taken issue with, or even taken note of what I wrote. Have I touched on something that no one else wants to talk about?

You shot a big hole in many peoples' witnessing/evangelism models, and I am very glad you did. Many, many sincere Christians have pre-programmed evangelistic software embedded in their brains that stopped being effective long ago. They find it difficult to confess their need for change.

SLE

 

[Alaska Mom]

Welcome to TalkJesus!

Just a thought on your original post -
Yes, many Christians do have blinder on when it comes to nonbelievers, however, a coin always has two sides. You cannot honestly tell me that when a Christian has tried to minister to you in the past that you haven't had blinders on as well. As human beings we all put up walls and become defensive when someone tries to convince us of anything that we do not believe to be true. While I respect where you are coming from, I hope that you can also respect where we have been coming from. After all, the bible does teach us to minister to nonbelievers.

 

[rlowe]

Hi garza.

I wish that scientist would treat fact as fact & theory as theory & not get the 2 confused/mixed up.

May God make clear the truths.

 

[garza33]

rlowe - Well, ah, that's exactly one of the points I used to try and make with Christians when I was a atheist but with little success. A theory is an attempt to explain how something works, based on observation. The 'fact' is what we see. The 'theory' is the explanation drawn from that.

Most of the theory of electricity I was taught as a child was dead wrong, in fact was long outdated even then. Quantum mechanics had overturned everything. Now classical Quantum mechanics appears in danger of being overturned itself. Through all the changes in theory, the lights continued to shine and the motors continued to turn and the radio continued to play because no matter how much the theories changed, the facts remain the same.

We know that if we apply one volt across a resistance of one Ohm, current will flow at the rate of one Ampere. It happens every time. That's an experienced fact. From that fact we devise a bit of theory called Ohm's Law. But we have to call it theory because we do not yet understand why it should be so.

Theory can only attempt to explain what we see. It cannot go beyond that.

Now here is a fact. You have very neatly demonstrated exactly what I was talking about in my first post. No one who understands anything at all about science can ever confuse fact with theory. Yet over and over I had that same statement you made thrown at me in the mistaken idea that I believed that theory is fact. When I would try to explain that I never believed such a silly idea as that, the person talking to me would ignore my words and go right on with the same argument as though I had never spoken. Such people would argue over and over against something I never believed in the first place, so why should I have listened to anything else they had to say?

If you are going to change what a person believes, you must first have an accurate understanding about what that person believes now.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

If you are going to change what a person believes, you must first have an accurate understanding about what that person believes now.

Sadly, I must confess that in the encounters you had with well meaning but misguided evangelists, its very possible that those "evangelists", instead of really listening to you as you spoke, were rehearsing in their minds what they were going to say at the next opportunity. It's the project-based evangelism programming software embedded in many Christian brains that needs to be uninstalled and replaced with a desire to build a relashionship with the person they are speaking with; to have a genuine interest in being friends with that person and understanding him/her.

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

 

[garza33]

Good Morning SLE -

A pre-programmed evangelist would be in the same category as the reporter who writes out all his questions in detail before he goes to do the interview. I've earned my daily bread from the age of 14 putting one word after another, first in newspapers, then radio, then television and magazines, and over the years I have interviewed hundreds of people. One thing I learned early on was to have one question ready at the start of the interview.

'Who are you and what are you doing, why are you here?'

While not said in exactly that way, that's the way to start an interview. Your next question is triggered by the answer to the first question. The evangelist who wants genuinely to convert a person would do well to start in the same general way.

'What do you believe?' would be a good opening.

You can't lead me where you want me to go if you don't know where I'm starting from.

I note that you and I are in the same general age category. Here in the village I am known as El Gringo Viejo.

 

[Hekuran]

Or a reporter who blindly asks the same set of questions to every interviewee.

The work of evangelism is not primarily to argue or to point out the errors in others' beliefs, but to witness to the person of Jesus Christ.

Everybody comes to Jesus in their own way. Any approach to evangelism that does not recognise this is fundamentally flawed.

We know how you didn't come to Christ. I'd be interested to find out how you did come to faith.

 

[stephen]

From the age of eight until a couple of years ago I was an atheist. Now, at 69, I realise I have been wrong.

You can enter God's kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way. But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it......(Jesus) N.L.T.
Matthew 7: 13/14

One good thing about the broadway.......there is room to turn...So glad to hear that you turned round.....to follow Jesus

"He that followeth me shall not walk in darkness but shall have the light of life" (Jesus)

 

[garza33]

Three points need to be made clear.

First, up until the age of eight I gave no thought to whether or not God existed and whether or not the story of Jesus was real. Shortly after my eighth birthday I began the serious study of music. I had organ lessons and choir practise twice a week along with voice lessons three times a week. The voice lessons and membership in the choir continued until just before my 13th birthday when my voice began to change. Organ lessons continued until I was 17 and went away to university.

Shortly after Christmas, 1948, I woke up to the fact that I was singing and playing a lot of religous music without really knowing what it was all about. I decided to find out. We had an AV1611 Bible at home, and in early January 1949 I began to read it. That took six months. Remember, I was only eight years old, and although I was considered quite bright - I was already reading books by people like Jack London and Albert Payson Terhune - the antique language of the AV 1611 and the very adult concepts made the reading of it a real struggle. I finished around the middle of June, a couple of months before my ninth birthday, and told my mother I didn't believe a word of it.

My maternal grandfather was nominally a Roman Catholic but was actually an atheist. He was delighted. My maternal grandmother was raised an Ulster Protestant who converted to Roman Catholic when she married my grandfather. She was horrified and rushed off to St John's RC Church to light candles and have masses said 'for the safety of my soul'. My paternal grandfather was a Baptist, as was my father, and neither of them was especially religious. My paternal grandmother was the daughter of a rabbi who converted when she married my grandfather and expressed mild disappointment. My mother was concerned that the neighbours would not approve and urged me not to go around telling people I did not believe in God.

So I never had any faith to lose.

The second point is that my faith is nowhere near complete. I have many questions. I have been told that I should not ask questions but simply 'listen and say "amen".' I'm finding it hard to do that.

The third point is that I do know the Bible quite well. Though I didn't believe what it taught, I was fascinated by it from that first reading. As a university undergraduate I studied Greek and Latin and then worked as a graduate assistant helping to prepare material for courses in early church history.

I said earlier that 'it's a long way back' but in truth I'm headed where I've never been, reaching for a faith I never had.

That's why I'm here.

 

[NY Believer]

That's great your coming to faith in your 60's. Be assured, your reward is guaranteed even at a later stage in life. The parable of the Laborers in Matthew (20:1-16) shows that salvation is equal for all!

First, up until the age of eight I gave no thought to whether or not God existed and whether or not the story of Jesus was real.

That's a valid question. I was agnostic most of my life until coming to faith about 5 years ago. What really started to help me believe in God and the validity of Jesus was the external evidence of the bible in addition to the internal evidence. I thought the bible was a self serving document until I started to learn than there were many secular sources that corroborated biblical events. One of the most compelling is Josephus (a 1st century Jewish historian).

The second point is that my faith is nowhere near complete. I have many questions. I have been told that I should not ask questions but simply 'listen and say "amen".' I'm finding it hard to do that.

That's not good. I am an engineer and it's my nature to be a skeptic and question everything. I really began learning when I started studying apologists. Ravi Zacharias, Lee Strobel, R.C. Sproul, Dinesh D'Souza are a few good ones. If you have specific objections, PM to me and I can give your some apologetics links to 2 very good sites (I don't this this forum allows posting links otherwise I would put it here).

The third point is that I do know the Bible quite well. Though I didn't believe what it taught, I was fascinated by it from that first reading. As a university undergraduate I studied Greek and Latin and then worked as a graduate assistant helping to prepare material for courses in early church history.

Thats great you know Greek. It can really give you insight to word meaning in the NT. I recommend a good study bible that will help explain scripture meanings and also frame it in it's correct historical and cultural context. I like John MacArthur's NKJV study bible. Also the Quest study bible is a good one (the first one I read).

Some questions can be very difficult to answer. The problem of evil is perhaps the most difficult for many and for me personally. But just keep plugging away at reading scripture, day by day, and ask God to come into your life and the Holy Spirit guide you. It doesn't come overnight and took me a good year or so until I really felt like I was understanding many of my questions.

 

[Kit Carson]

I will talk to you, I visit the site once a day or so and find something I am interested in. I do not know much about the the theory of electricity, but I did just build a new home and did all the wiring myself, nothing blew up, nothing went sssssppttzzzz. You seem highly intelligent , I am just a plumber who never finished high school.

So I will try to understand, so let me start.

I think you are trying to say, you need to prove this to me, I have to see it to believe it, it has to be a fact.
Questions like why are there so many wars, why does not God just show up once in awhile and put the stops to all this Evil on the world, why are there terrible earthquakes with so much death and destruction, and that kind of thing. I do not see any proof that there is a God. Is this what you are asking?

Is that kinda what you are trying to say?

I think many have those doubts at times, I used to then gradually they all disappeared and I just learned to accept and go to the bible for an answer, I have always found this works best, and not some person quoting one little verse, sometimes you really have to open your mind, study and pray for understanding. It will get there, sometimes takes a bit of time, but one day it starts to let the light bulb come on.

I look at nature, people, animals, the trees, the world and know that God invented and put into place the physical laws that made the earth and us, and yes people and nature do change or evolve if you will with guidance, Humans are a part of this too, something as simple a new breed of pet, dog, cat something is in my blue collar mind a change, and this occurs in a natural way too.

Then one day when you have fully accepted Christ and or God one and the same, and are ready, he will take the binders off your eyes and give you some truths. But you have to get them from him, and the bible. I am one who believes in God with all my heart, but I am not a normal Christian, in fact I dismiss a lot of what I call religion as total sillyness.

I just say Hi to God every day, that is all he asks, just to acknowledge him , to be a friend, that kind of thing.

Did I make any sense? Pick a question, something that troubles you and I will try in my way to answer it.

Kit

 

[Lawligator]

I reallly always thought that if your praying and your with God that he'll give you the right words to say and etc...
Now if "chrisitans" are try'n to evangalise but their not searching after God themselfes.. what's the point in the first place?
God is in controll and knows the thoughts of everyones mind and exactly whhat they NEED to hear.
I imagine just by saying Hello in a kind loving way can minister to someones heart and change their life forever..
I don't question Gods Love, it has no end and when we display it who knows the impact?