Born outside a denomination.!!

[laterunner]

Just to help those who believe that to state that someone or some group is in the wrong place (outside of Gods grace or interest) is judgemental to say the least. :shock:
In my ignorance & in my minimal level of ''this walk'',I was born again,:shade: into a cult. This body of people followed the teaching of a man. ( Think on these things!!)
(There is usually a man/woman in leadership)he quite correctly ''believed'' that he had been shown that he needed to follow the passage '' (KJ) ''Come ye out & be separated.'' People followed the man who had the message. (Not unknown ''even ''in the bible.) The other leaders unfortunately raised that leader above the position God gave him. But I never heard in that group that Jesus love ME!!! & that He died that this love might be exchanged between us.
N.B. This was in the time that the world that I knew was saying ''stop the world I want to get off..(early '70's!!)
Who else like me, now follows someone or group of the leadership of a body or church. Who they through known history; or their faith/ trust in them, are listerning to & being led by Jesus who lives & breaths through His body ministry.
Each of us is respons-able for our own walk & others. Leaders carry the greater responsibility before God.
His body, his spirit is at work world wide & we don't always know where the ''wind''blows or on whom. :lightning
I quite happy to answer your questions.
UK- Charismatic.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Re: Born Outside a Denomination.

Laterunner: I think it is important, in connection with your post, to note that there are two types of judgementalism. The first is assessing a teaching or belief so as to determine its correctness. The second is society's habit of condemning those whose teachings or beliefs may be or are in error.

Assessing the value or correctness of a teaching/teacher is good. Condemning those who believe or preach such things is not up to us. Our job is to love them,pray for them, and be ready, under the Holy Spirit's prompting, to lead them into right teaching and thinking.

We need to heed God's word in Hebrews 10:30, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay."And also Jesus' words in Matthew 16:10, "..be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves," as well as the words of Paul in 1 Thess 3:12, "May the Lord make your love increase and overflow for each otherand for everyone else, just as ours does for you."


SLE

 

[stephen]

Let me say.......you are welome here 'laterunner' I pray that your visits here will change you...from 'laterunner' to 'rightontime'

You have been duped.

But here at talkjesus we try to put folks back on track...

Jesus said in John chapter 14...please read .........

I am the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE

Withouit the WAY......there is no GOING.
Without the TRUTH....there is no KNOWING
Without the LIFE.......there is no LIVING

I am the way the truth and the life..........thats what Jesus said.

Appreciate and welcome your visit

We are sure....Jesus can make a difference.

Praying....and God Bless.

 

[Buddy2]

I went astray. Hinduism, Self-Realization...

And even had it "wrong" in Christiandom. There's a lot of truth in this quote.

He that begins by loving Christianity better than truth will
proceed by loving his own sect or church better than
Christianity, and end in loving himself better than all.

-- Samuel Taylor Coleridge

But God's word will continue to enlighten us in Truth.
Thank you Jesus!

 

[MavMin]

There's a lot of truth in this quote.

He that begins by loving Christianity better than truth will
proceed by loving his own sect or church better than
Christianity, and end in loving himself better than all.

-- Samuel Taylor Coleridge

But God's word will continue to enlighten us in Truth.
Thank you Jesus!

He is right to a point. If you love your sect more than truth than you have a problem but in an age of apostasy once you found the sect with the most truth intact it won't be wrong to properly love it anymore than it is to love your country though it has flaws.

I am a Baptist by conviction not birth nor convenience. The Baptists have great heritage both spiritually and in the secular realm. It is a name worthy of proper respect and in the right sense pride. From my studies and experience it has more truth intact than thepther groups or I would be in one of the other ones. Do we have our problems? You bet. But in the long haul the Fundamental Baptists are more right doctrines than the rest, many of whom still carry baggage from the The Great ***** and have abandoned what truth they had to the point even their founders would not be welcome nor would the founders want anything to do with them. Unlike some, I don't believe we are the only ones going to Heaven but as the apostasy increases the chances are going to be better among us than in many other groups. That is because of truth not because we are superior. We are quite human.

I have friends in other groups that decry what is going on but because of tradition, family, or a false call to reform that group they stay in instead of coming out. I held on to Methodism for years though I was really a pagan and even when I was saved I had trouble with getting baptized because of my infant ritual. So yes, you can love a denomination instead of truth though sometimes it be from ignorance of the truth.

I chastise my people far more than I pick on the other groups but do get into discussions on the Net and try to teach my people how to pick out heresy and such. When the IFBs fall, and I believe that many will, hopefully I will be in glory or the Rapture will be forthcoming as I see no other group able to replace them. That is not surprising as Christ wondered if there would be any faith left when He returned. Indeed, apostasy denotes a decline in truth and believers not worldwide revivals and mega-churches. Take away the entertainment and start preaching meat instead of skim milk and watch the churches shrivel. The majority is usually wrong and in church practices that can be clearly seen.

Maranatha!

 

[jiggyfly]

He is right to a point. If you love your sect more than truth than you have a problem but in an age of apostasy once you found the sect with the most truth intact it won't be wrong to properly love it anymore than it is to love your country though it has flaws.

I am a Baptist by conviction not birth nor convenience. The Baptists have great heritage both spiritually and in the secular realm. It is a name worthy of proper respect and in the right sense pride. From my studies and experience it has more truth intact than thepther groups or I would be in one of the other ones. Do we have our problems? You bet. But in the long haul the Fundamental Baptists are more right doctrines than the rest, many of whom still carry baggage from the The Great ***** and have abandoned what truth they had to the point even their founders would not be welcome nor would the founders want anything to do with them. Unlike some, I don't believe we are the only ones going to Heaven but as the apostasy increases the chances are going to be better among us than in many other groups. That is because of truth not because we are superior. We are quite human.

I have friends in other groups that decry what is going on but because of tradition, family, or a false call to reform that group they stay in instead of coming out. I held on to Methodism for years though I was really a pagan and even when I was saved I had trouble with getting baptized because of my infant ritual. So yes, you can love a denomination instead of truth though sometimes it be from ignorance of the truth.

I chastise my people far more than I pick on the other groups but do get into discussions on the Net and try to teach my people how to pick out heresy and such. When the IFBs fall, and I believe that many will, hopefully I will be in glory or the Rapture will be forthcoming as I see no other group able to replace them. That is not surprising as Christ wondered if there would be any faith left when He returned. Indeed, apostasy denotes a decline in truth and believers not worldwide revivals and mega-churches. Take away the entertainment and start preaching meat instead of skim milk and watch the churches shrivel. The majority is usually wrong and in church practices that can be clearly seen.

Maranatha!

This is very carnal, the baptist, methodist, lutheran, pentecostal holiness and so on are all carnal religious sects. Fundamentalists Baptist are no exception to deception. I would be careful lifting up one religious sect aginst or above another, it's all blind leading blind in this regard.

 

[jiggyfly]

I went astray. Hinduism, Self-Realization...

And even had it "wrong" in Christiandom. There's a lot of truth in this quote.

He that begins by loving Christianity better than truth will
proceed by loving his own sect or church better than
Christianity, and end in loving himself better than all.

-- Samuel Taylor Coleridge

But God's word will continue to enlighten us in Truth.
Thank you Jesus!

Excellent quote Buddy2. Jesus said "I am the truth". Many think that if you leave the christian religious system that you are leaving or straying from God. Well if this is true than God was not the one keeping you and HolySpirit wasn't the one sealing your salvation. Many do seem to urn away from God when they leave but it just shows what was keeping them. Many live out a religious fantasy rather than a spiritual reality.

 

[rizen1]

= MAV
I don't believe we are the only ones going to Heaven

I had to quote you, I think some churches fool their members into thinking the church label is their first class ticket to Heaven. I applaud you for that humble statement

Psalm 44:21
For he knoweth the secrets of the heart.

Acts 1:24
Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men

1 Corinthians 12:13
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into[a] one Spirit.

John 7:37-38
37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”

Jesus is the only way to the Father, if any church or body preaches against this. Its anti-Christ.

For any church to say they are the only way, thats anti Christ.

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." -- John 14:6

Jesus said come to me, he didnt say go to that blue tent, or the green tent. He said come to me.
But he did say

Matthew 28:19-20
19 Go therefore[a] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen

 

[jiggyfly]

I had to quote you, I think some churches fool their members into thinking the church label is their first class ticket to Heaven. I applaud you for that humble statement

Psalm 44:21
For he knoweth the secrets of the heart.

Acts 1:24
Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men

1 Corinthians 12:13
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into[a] one Spirit.

John 7:37-38
37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”

Jesus is the only way to the Father, if any church or body preaches against this. Its anti-Christ.

For any church to say they are the only way, thats anti Christ.

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." -- John 14:6

Jesus said come to me, he didnt say go to that blue tent, or the green tent. He said come to me.
But he did say

Matthew 28:19-20
19 Go therefore[a] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen

Very good post Rizen1, I want to eloborate on something you said.
A church can be a way to Jesus, but there are many ways to Jesus, Jesus is the only way to Father. I found that some churches not only fail to be a way to Jesus but even a hindrance to those seeking Jesus.

Here is an excerpt from Manfred Haller's book "The Mystery Of God, Christ All And In All".

"Repentance, forgiveness and freedom are concequences of submitting to Christ, the Lord. We should be careful not to turn the consequences into conditions for recieving Him."

 

[MavMin]

There is nothing wrong with having a denomination especially in an age where you definitely need a score card to keep track of the doctrines and the smoke and mirrors of so many players.

IFBs came out from among the Liberals and modernists. That is a good thing. There have always been sects, even Christians were called the sect of the Nazarene at one point.

1 Cor 11:18-19

18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. KJV

Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. KJV

When there are heresies there are going to be divisions and you can call them sects, groups, denominations whatever but they have been around since the 1st Century and will be here in the last.

The approved will be manifest and also consequently will be the unapproved just as when one man steps forward as a volunteer the rest are manifested as non-volunteers. If the approved are manifest are they then exalted above the rest? Yes, not because they are superior but because they are approved. Thus if we do what we are told and hold on to the faith once delivered to the saints and mark them that are heretics the approved will stand out. That still makes the approved unworthy servants for they have only done that which they were supposed to do but they will basically be exalted above the rest by their approval.

I do not exalt the IFBs and freely admit that they are not perfect but in the approval area I believe that they are right in more areas than the rest but again not perfect. When I join the Baptist Bride folks or the Church of Christ, which is a denominational though they are in denial, or somesimilar group and totally cast out all others then you can fuss at me. There will be a remnant in most groups but not necessarily from this generation and even less likely from the next should the Lord tarry. I can still find a saved Presby or Methodist but they are getting harder to find. In some Baptist groups this is true as well.

I seek to exalt the Word and the Truth and by doing that I exalt Jesus who is both. More often then not I end up with the IFBs when I do that. There are some who use that tag that I would not fellowship with nor suggest to anyone as a people to hang out with but for the few nutcases I have more balanced ones than from other groups.

Shalom!

 

[rizen1]

I honestly have no problem with labels, but I've seen people use their label to teach hatred towards other labels. I'm not talking " Hey they're wrong, Jesus would not approve "
But where people forget the sin, but hates the sinner.

We've removed from teachings of corrections to condemning.

Yes, not because they are superior but because they are approved.

Approved by whom the saints before us or by God.

Matthew 5:20
20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 23:13
13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

Matthew 23:23-24
Woe to you, scribs and Pharisees,hypocrites ! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law : Justice and mercy and Faith. These you ought to have done without leaving others undone. Blind guides who strain out a gant and swallow a camel.

I know not everyone, discriminates against one another, but it does sadden me, because we have people looking from the outside and they dont see the love of Christ in Us.

" All you christians do is fight with each other " they yell from the outside

Lets go back to correction.

 

[pjnewman]

" All you christians do is fight with each other " they yell from the outside

Lets go back to correction.

I absolutely agree especially with these last quoted lines. I try hard to go by the "correction, not criticism" route myself.

 

[rizen1]

Before anyone post I do have an uderstanding of the Pharisee's and their behavior, its just that in our society today there's a problem with how we correct others.

My friends and I have an inside Joke, about Christian Pharisee's
Its not a post for anyone to get offended.

But one for us to ask...

Do we
shut up the kingdom of heaven against men

neglected the weightier matters of the law : Justice and mercy and Faith

leave others undone

not allow those who are entering to go in

A simple comparison to what is Going on today.

We should be asking, What Would Jesus Do, and please dont say flip tables.
That was on one occasion.

 

[MavMin]

Eph 5:10-12

10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. KJV

2 Tim 4:2-4

2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. KJV

NT:1651

elegcho (el-eng'-kho); of uncertain affinity; to confute, admonish:
KJV - convict, convince, tell a fault, rebuke, reprove.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

NT:2008
epitimao (ep-ee-tee-mah'-o); from NT:1909 and NT:5091; to tax upon, i.e. censure or admonish; by implication, forbid:
KJV - (straitly) charge, rebuke.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

criticize

Main Entry: crit·i·cize
Pronunciation: \ˈkri-tə-ˌsīz\
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): crit·i·cized; crit·i·ciz·ing
Date: 1643
intransitive verb
: to act as a critic
transitive verb
1 : to consider the merits and demerits of and judge accordingly : evaluate
2 : to find fault with : point out the faults of
— crit·i·ciz·able \-ˌsī-zə-bəl\ adjective
— crit·i·ciz·er noun
Definition of criticize - Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Before you correct you must be critical and thus criticize the issue before you criticize, reprove or reubke the person(s) with the flaw.

One of the deceptions of this age is the concept of trying to be overly inclusive and as one said all groups are susceptible to this one. The SBC is very bad at this as are the non-denoms/intra-denoms. The IFBs at times err to the other side of this coin but that is the safer side though balance needs to be sought in all things.

I did a sermon called Christianity Is Exclusively Inclusive that you can find on sermoncentral.

As long as one is using the Word to make the reproof or criticism we are enjoined to do so. Some find this unloving but if I leave you in sin or some error without telling you the truth I do not love you. True, I can tell you the truth without loving you but the Scripture does say to speak the truth in love, not love and forget about the truth.

We live in a world where we do not understand love or grace. It is not love to accept a brother in his sin or error and leave him there. It is love to seek to give him the truth to turn him from his sin or error. Grace does not mean we close our eyes to sin and error but grace gives us the power and the love to see sin and error for what they are and to hate them and seek to stop our personal sin and correct our personal errors but also to care for those who need their eyes open be they lost or saved.

Some of the previous comments clearly prove why we cannot ever be ONE until He returns. We are told to be in ONE mind and ONE accord and to speak the SAME thing since their is ONE Lord, ONE faith and ONE baptism but since no one wants to seek what that ONE faith and its doctrines are but rather embrace everything from far Left to far Right there cannot be ONE faith nor can we function as ONE body.

Christianity is not a spiritual buffet where you pick and choose the doctrines you like or create your own salad. There is ONE truth and only ONE truth.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
KJV

ALL truth, not some or several types of truth. Yes, Jesus is the Truth but He does not contradict Himself or have different rules for each of His children. There is no I'm OK, You're OK theology in Scripture. Either adult baptism by immersion is truth or infant baptism by sprinkling or poruring is truth or they are both wrong but they are not both right. And it is that way it is with EVERY doctrine.

Some cite man's doctine as the problem. OK, how do you know what is man's doctrine and what is God's? By the Word of God and there won't be variations. Be careful for God did not lay out everything in a nice 3 point sermon or 12 steps so you do have to study and interpret and make application. Sunday School is not in the Word and the way it was started is not how we use it today but we have the command to disciple and it is, when done properly, a means of discipling. Thus it is a man's invention but it partly fulfills what God commanded.

When we want to sincerely seekout the Truth and come to agreement on doctrines we shall then be one but that will not happen because everyone wants to be in the limelight.

1 Cor 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. KJV

The Church at Corinth was a blooming disaster and should be used as an example of what to avoid but sadly too many churches be they charismatic or not emulate the church at Corinth.

Finally,

2 Tim 2:15-18

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. KJV

Paul kicked these two lads to the curb over just one doctrine and that one we might call non-essential because it was about the end times not salvation yet it overthrew the faith of some. Note he says to rightly divide the Word which means that there is a wrongly dividing possible. There is only one right answer folks and we are commanded to find it and to point out error.

OK, I am leaving in a bit and won't be back for awhile so y'all have fun now, heah?

 

[rizen1]

No one is saying correction is bad, of course intellectually you would have to sit down and critic or evaluate the persons teachings to rebuke it.

But I'm talking about hating the sinner instead of the sin.
In other words people are rebuking others instead of the teachings.

How did we reach here

Also who adds up the scores to make a church approved.

I hold alot of respect for you for making this comment, and so I end here.

= MAV
I don't believe we are the only ones going to Heaven

I had to quote you, I think some churches fool their members into thinking the church label is their first class ticket to Heaven. I applaud you for that humble statement

Psalm 44:21
For he knoweth the secrets of the heart.

Acts 1:24
Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men

1 Corinthians 12:13
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into[a] one Spirit.

John 7:37-38
37 On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”

Jesus is the only way to the Father, if any church or body preaches against this. Its anti-Christ.

For any church to say they are the only way, thats anti Christ.

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." -- John 14:6

Jesus said come to me, he didnt say go to that blue tent, or the green tent. He said come to me.
But he did say

Matthew 28:19-20
19 Go therefore[a] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen