Caesars things to Caesar.

[kvnchrist]

How far does this concept go when it comes to real life?

Is it a thing of paying taxes or something far greater?

I was talking with a group of church goes and the subject of people trying to take "In God we trust." off the curancy and the fact that the Schools are rejecting praying.

What is the idea of having images on material things that denote religious perspectives? To whom are these created for, since those who believe say that God knows our hearts?

It just seems that many are concentrating on being known as a Christian by others instead f by God, as if it were important what other people think.

This whole materialistic view seems to place Christian's in jepardy of being angered over that which could very well be attributed to being tested.

Anger, to me is a temporary state of insanity. I can only speak for myself, but of the myriads of times I've wronged innocent people, I think 99.9% of the time, I was angry.

Anger, to me forces out love and darkens the spirit so that rational thought is obscured. If God is love and anger forces love from you, then wouldn't the state of being angered separate yourself from God?

Wouldn't that be a test and wouldn't the fact that these church goers are so concerned for material acknowledgement set themselves up for a fall?

 

[Travis]

I was thinking about this the other day and something hit me.

Caeser's face was on the coin. It had his "image" on it, and "belonged to him." For conscience sake we should pay our taxes and such. But here is the good part. The coins "belonged" to Caeser in one sense because his image was on them.

We are made in the image of God. Our faces, bear the image of God. So, just like the coins had Caeser's face on them, we have God's face, in a sense, on our face. Therefore, everyone one of us belongs to God.

God want's much more than the money in our wallet. He want's us. We owe God everything we are because he created us, we belong to him, we bear his image.

I think the focus and intent of the teaching Christ gave us is on the second part, not so much on the first part.

Mark 12
16 And they brought one. And he said to them, "Whose likeness and inscription is this?" They said to him, "Caesar's." 17 Jesus said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." And they marveled at him.​

We have God's likeness and inscription on ourselves.

Blessings,

Travis

 

[kvnchrist]

I was thinking about this the other day and something hit me.

Caeser's face was on the coin. It had his "image" on it, and "belonged to him." For conscience sake we should pay our taxes and such. But here is the good part. The coins "belonged" to Caeser in one sense because his image was on them.

We are made in the image of God. Our faces, bear the image of God. So, just like the coins had Caeser's face on them, we have God's face, in a sense, on our face. Therefore, everyone one of us belongs to God.

God want's much more than the money in our wallet. He want's us. We owe God everything we are because he created us, we belong to him, we bear his image.

I think the focus and intent of the teaching Christ gave us is on the second part, not so much on the first part.

Mark 12
16 And they brought one. And he said to them, "Whose likeness and inscription is this?" They said to him, "Caesar's." 17 Jesus said to them, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's." And they marveled at him.​

We have God's likeness and inscription on ourselves.

Blessings,

Travis

I understand that. I have a very good understanding of why Jesus said that, but my question is how far into our lives does material things enter and can those who which acknowledgement by humans losing site of what's more important.

I submit the verse where Jesus was talking about the hypocrite who rubbed ash on his face to look like he was fasting, when he wasn't. Jesus said that he got his rewards by the approval of the masses instead of by God.

 

[Travis]

Anger, to me is a temporary state of insanity. I can only speak for myself, but of the myriads of times I've wronged innocent people, I think 99.9% of the time, I was angry.

Anger, to me forces out love and darkens the spirit so that rational thought is obscured. If God is love and anger forces love from you, then wouldn't the state of being angered separate yourself from God?

Have you ever read the sermon: Sinner's in the hands of an angry God by Jonathan Edwards?

I think that God is angry all the day long with sinners.

Psalm 7
11 God [is] a just judge, And God is angry [with the wicked] every day. 12 If he does not turn back, He will sharpen His sword; He bends His bow and makes it ready. 13 He also prepares for Himself instruments of death; He makes His arrows into fiery shafts.​

I think it's just about being angry about the right things I guess.

I think the New Testament makes things pretty clear, in that it's not about the letter of the law, it's about the spirit of the law. Our motivations and the intent of our heart are absolutely critical. I think I do agree with what you are saying, that we set ourselves up for big trouble when we think everything is fine with our walk with Christ when we have the praises of men for our "well doing." But we shouldn't be concerned with men's opinions, but instead only with God's opinion. As in, what does God think about what your are doing (or not doing)?

Blessings,

Travis

 

[kvnchrist]

Have you ever read the sermon: Sinner's in the hands of an angry God by Jonathan Edwards?

I think that God is angry all the day long with sinners.

Psalm 7
11 God [is] a just judge, And God is angry [with the wicked] every day. 12 If he does not turn back, He will sharpen His sword; He bends His bow and makes it ready. 13 He also prepares for Himself instruments of death; He makes His arrows into fiery shafts.​

I think it's just about being angry about the right things I guess.

I think the New Testament makes things pretty clear, in that it's not about the letter of the law, it's about the spirit of the law. Our motivations and the intent of our heart are absolutely critical. I think I do agree with what you are saying, that we set ourselves up for big trouble when we think everything is fine with our walk with Christ when we have the praises of men for our "well doing." But we shouldn't be concerned with men's opinions, but instead only with God's opinion. As in, what does God think about what your are doing (or not doing)?

Blessings,

Travis

I thank you for that, but I really think that God isn't angry t those that sin. I thinkthat sinning is done mostly by the ignorant and the missguided. I think the anger is for those that are doing the misguiding. Remember saul. He was persecuting Christian's, yet God seemingly had no condemnation for him. I submit the scenario of the Prodical son for my mindset in this. Would the father. have excepted the son back in, so easily if he was angry for his sin?

Now, those that lead him astray or knew it would displease the boy's father for him to do as he done, those are the people who I would think would be the beneficiary of Gods wrath.

One other thing is that those who claim ownership of the curency because the words "In God we trust" are holding on to a material object, for what it means to them and not what it means to God. This might cause a stir here, but those who are proud of the country they live in and claim it is a Christian country also, I think are heading down a wrong path. The reason I say this is that God created all the world. It was not his doing that lead to these human constructs we as human beings call countries. He set aside only one partition of land because of a covenant and to my knowledge, he has not repeated himself on that. Why should anyone call their country a Christian country just because they are Christian? Do they think when Jesus returns that God will somehow spare that country above all else?

I think it would be better to be happy to b a Christian and to follow God's word and leave this world and all it's enticements to those who think they are important.

 

[Chad]

I thinkthat sinning is done mostly by the ignorant and the missguided.

Please back this view with scripture. We can feel all day long, but feelings and emotions never dictate truth. God is truth, His word (bible) is truth.

Every sin is willfully done. There's no exception, not any escaping the consequences.

Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. (‭Galatians‬ ‭6‬:‭7‬ NIV)

You also stated that God didn't condtmen Paul. Scripture doesn't say that, and it actually contradicts the above verse which applies to everyone equally so. Paul suffered more than most of us can imagine. I'm sure a lot is due to great suffering for Christs cause and a result of his [Paul's] actions. Ultimately we may not know the consequences of Paul's sins but he faced them because Scripture tells us that we reap what we sow.

 

[kvnchrist]

Please back this view with scripture. We can feel all day long, but feelings and emotions never dictate truth. God is truth, His word (bible) is truth.

Every sin is willfully done. There's no exception, not any escaping the consequences.




You also stated that God didn't condtmen Paul. Scripture doesn't say that, and it actually contradicts the above verse which applies to everyone equally so. Paul suffered more than most of us can imagine. I'm sure a lot is due to great suffering for Christs cause and a result of his [Paul's] actions. Ultimately we may not know the consequences of Paul's sins but he faced them because Scripture tells us that we reap what we sow.

The original sin was willfully done by two, but all have suffered for that sin. Can you actually say that we all are willful accomplices to that sin. Is a child that has not been tought properly sin willfully if they disobey and disrespect their parents. They act as they were taught and if they are not taught about sin, how can the sin that they do be willful?


What happened to Paul because of his faith was not a condemnation of what he did before.and wasn't done to him by God. He suffered because he spoke counter to those who wished not to hear him. Are you saying that his trials and tribulations were conducted by God. Not even Job suffered at Gods hands but by Satan's hands.

 

[Chad]

The original sin was willfully done by two, but all have suffered for that sin. Can you actually say that we all are willful accomplices to that sin. Is a child that has not been tought properly sin willfully if they disobey and disrespect their parents. They act as they were taught and if they are not taught about sin, how can the sin that they do be willful?


What happened to Paul because of his faith was not a condemnation of what he did before.and wasn't done to him by God. He suffered because he spoke counter to those who wished not to hear him. Are you saying that his trials and tribulations were conducted by God. Not even Job suffered at Gods hands but by Satan's hands.

Paul suffered for the cause of Christ indeed, yes. But no where does it say he did not reap what he sowed from his previous sins.

As for babies / kids, they are born in sin too. It doesn't mean God judges their poor actions as babies because they're too young to know better the morals of right and wrong. This is where we draw the line and let God be the judge. He searches the hearts and a person who knows better when he or she is old enough,God knows when that point has been reached.

Jeremiah 17:10

 

[kvnchrist]

Agreed. I spoke out of thought when I stated that about Paul.

On the other hand I still can't see that all sin is willful since we've not reached everyone on the planet. Sin is an infraction of Gods laws and unless those laws are known any infraction is by definition unwillful.

 

[Travis]

Agreed. I spoke out of thought when I stated that about Paul.

On the other hand I still can't see that all sin is willful since we've not reached everyone on the planet. Sin is an infraction of Gods laws and unless those laws are known any infraction is by definition unwillful.

I love the book of Romans:

Romans 2
11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.)​

Travis

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

on politics and government.. we are to obey God's laws first and foremost, and also all those laws which do not contradict God's laws.
that does not mean that we must try to enforce God's laws on other people, but only that we must obey them ourselves and teach others to also.

 

[kvnchrist]

I don't think those scriptures are relivant to the subject of willfull sinning. Ofcourse they will pay for the sin. That is not an issue with me. The issue is that without knowledge of a law that law can't be willfully broken.

 

[Travis]

I love the book of Romans:

Romans 2
11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.)​

Travis

I don't think those scriptures are relivant to the subject of willfull sinning. Ofcourse they will pay for the sin. That is not an issue with me. The issue is that without knowledge of a law that law can't be willfully broken.

Romans 2: 15 shows that even though they do not have the written law delivered to them, all of mankind demonstrates that enough of God's law is written on their hearts for them to be accountable. All of mankind has a conscience, and it convicts them regarding transgressing different parts of God's law. This conscience can be ignored, covered up, seared, etc, etc... but it still leaves men and women confronted with the truth, and they often reject it outright. This is because they reject the Living God.

I think Roman's is a great book to reference for the subject at hand.

Grace to you,

Travis

 

[kvnchrist]

Romans 2: 15 shows that even though they do not have the written law delivered to them, all of mankind demonstrates that enough of God's law is written on their hearts for them to be accountable. All of mankind has a conscience, and it convicts them regarding transgressing different parts of God's law. This conscience can be ignored, covered up, seared, etc, etc... but it still leaves men and women confronted with the truth, and they often reject it outright. This is because they reject the Living God.

I think Roman's is a great book to reference for the subject at hand.

Grace to you,

Travis

I would think that much of what is considered social awareness comes directly from Biblical laws, but in are blurred by the contempt for Christianity that is so prevalent in today's culture. It is not considered a sin, but a breaking of taboo that the world romanticizes so enticingly.