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- Feb 9, 2004
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Romans 12:4-6
4 For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, 5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another. 6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith;
This thread is out of love for the lost souls and respect, obedience to the Living Word of GOD which all believers understand to be infallible. This is not judgemental views towards anyone but Agape call for those deceived by the evil one, whom Jesus Christ defeated on Calvary 2000 years ago and will finish him when the day of the Lord comes.
What I have here is a compilation of articles and my own experience, my own compiled verses from GOD's Living Word, the true Bible itself.
Purpose of Thread
""Roman Catholics do not actually pray to Mary"
Wrong. "Hail Mary" prayer is inside their doctrine
Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death.
Amen.
Catechism of the Catholic Church admits that prayers to Mary are doctrinal:
2675 Beginning with Mary's unique cooperation with the working of the Holy Spirit, the Churches developed their prayer to the holy Mother of God, centering it on the person of Christ manifested in his mysteries...[emphasis mine]
2679 Mary is the perfect Orans (pray-er), a figure of the Church. When we pray to her, we are adhering with her to the plan of the Father, who sends his Son to save all men. Like the beloved disciple we welcome Jesus' mother into our homes, for she has become the mother of all the living. We can pray with and to her. The prayer of the Church is sustained by the prayer of Mary and united with it in hope. [emphasis mine]
Also, Consecration to Mary, which starts off,
"O Mary, Virgin most powerful and Mother of mercy, Queen of Heaven and Refuge of sinners, we consecrate ourselves to thine Immaculate Heart. We consecrate to thee our very being and our whole life; all that we have, all that we love, all that we are. To thee we give our bodies, our hearts and our souls; to thee we give our homes, our families, our country."
This is one of many prayers to Mary. Notice the salutation to Mary, and the giving of our very souls to Mary. I'm sure you can understand how blasphemous this sounds to give our souls to anyone but Jesus Christ!
Sacraments for Salvation?
Catechism states the following:
1129 The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation.
Ephesians 2:8-9
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."
Now the last clause is very revealing. I think you'd agree that good works are the fruits of true faith. James made that point so eloquently in his epistle. True faith will be evidenced by good works. However, it is equally true that no works will save us, whether they be works of faith (such as giving to the needy, caring for the downtrodden, exhibiting the fruits of the Spirit, etc.), or works of the law. The latter are analogous to the liturgical works (sacraments) of Christendom. No, we will not be saved because we are meek and patient, or because we faithfully performed the sacraments. We will be saved because we placed our faith in Jesus Christ. That was Jesus' teaching as well.
Catholic rejects Papal Infallibility
Regarding the one true church, the following appears in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
"816 'The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him.'
The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."
As you can see, this one section identifies the Catholic Church as "the sole Church of Christ." Note that the subparagraph is very specific that the "fullness of the means of salvation" can only be obtained through the Catholic Church. There are other sections of the catechism that teach this as well. I encourage you to share this portion of the Catechism with your priest and ask yourselves if you truly believe this Catholic doctrine.
If not, on what other matters of doctrine do you feel the Catholic Church errs? Even without the explicit statement above, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that justification comes only through adherence to the seven sacraments. Most Christian churches (though not all) observe only two -- communion and baptism. And we recognize the biblical teaching that justification and salvation are not imparted by participation in these sacraments. Salvation comes by grace through faith in Christ Jesus.
Romans 10:9-10
"That if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."
Catholic bible:
"2035 The supreme degree of participation in the authority of Christ is ensured by the charism of infallibility. This infallibility extends as far as does the deposit of divine Revelation; it also extends to all those elements of doctrine, including morals, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, explained, or observed."
Prior to 1870, the Catholic Church did not hold papal infallibility as a true doctrine. This changed at Vatican I when Pius IX declared that popes are infallible when speaking ex-cathedra. After this official declaration by Pius IX at Vatican I, papal infallibility was suddenly part of Catholic doctrine. In the 1871 edition of Stephen Keenan's popular Catechism, appeared the following Q & A:
Q. Is the pope infallible?
A. Yes, the pope is infallible.
Q. But some Catholics, before the Vatican Council, denied the infallibility of the pope, which was impugned by this very Catechism.
A. Yes, they did so under the usual reservation, insofar as they then could grasp the mind of the church, and subject to her (the church's) future definitions, thus implicitly accepting the dogma.
Jesus never intended for Christian leadership to exercise such dominion over the laity. In fact, in Matthew 20:25-27, Jesus said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave".
Jesus is the God-man and Mary is His Mother
As a former Roman Catholic, I am well aware of the RCC teaching with respect to Mary as the mother of God. But you see, a created individual cannot be the mother of a divine person who did not originate in her womb. She certainly is the mother of Jesus who was very God and very man, but only Jesus the man originated in her womb. To be the mother of God it would have been necessary for all three persons of the trinity to originate in her womb. But then they wouldn't have been eternal beings; they would not have been God.
The authorized KJV, Jesus never addressed Mary as His mother. On the two occasions reported, Jesus called her "woman." The Bible calls her the "mother of Jesus," not the mother of God.
It was the fallacy of the various Marian doctrines that led me to begin questioning RCC teachings in all areas. When I read the entire New Testament and never found where Mary's body had been assumed into heaven, a red flag went up in my mind. Then, in a second reading of the N.T. I found the Bible identifying by name four blood brothers of our Lord and "sisters" as well, though unnamed. I noticed that Mary's cousin Elisabeth in her old age miraculously conceived her ONLY child, John the Baptist. The Word of God tells us Elisabeth gave birth "to a son." But it also tells us Mary gave birth to her "firstborn son." From all this I began to suspect that the RCC doctrine of Mary's cradle-to-the-grave virginity was a falsehood.
Psalms 69:8-9
"I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children. For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me.
Since the latter verse is quoted in John 2:17, I knew both verses were prophetic. After that, I found Paul referring in Galations to "James, the Lord's brother," Historian, Eusebius mentioning both James and Jude as brothers of Jesus, and Jewish historian, Josephus, referring to "James, the brother of Jesus who was the Christ."
Mary's Immaculate Conception
"It simply illogical for the Perfect Christ to have come from an imperfect Mary."
"How could imperfection give birth to Perfection? The ONLY logical explanation is that Mary HAD to have been born without the stain of original sin."
Are you sure you want to stick with this logic? If so, then you must conclude that both of Mary's parents were born without sin as well. After all, if she was born sinless, and imperfection cannot give birth to perfection, then her parents must have been perfect. If that's so, then all four of her grandparents must also have been perfect and sinless, and so on and so forth. That perfection would then have been passed on to Mary's siblings, her cousins, aunts and uncles, etc. etc. The simple logic you wish to argue has now created veritable nation of perfect people. Is this your contention? I think you can see how this argument falls.
The real answer doesn't come burdened with this sort of achille's heel. You're assuming what came from Mary was perfect. However, God the Son existed before Mary. The Son has always existed. His perfection is found in His eternal deity. Mary's role was in the production and nurturing of His human body. His body was not perfect until His assumption. Before then, His body bled, bruised, and scarred. Scripture tells us He was nothing special to look at -- nothing particularly attractive about Him. His body was very, very human and imperfect. His divine nature was perfect, but that did not come from Mary.
Mary is not the "Mother of GOD"
Luke 1:32 “He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:”
Matthew 12:23 “And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?”
Matthew 15:22 “And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.”
Matthew 20:30 “And, behold, two blind men sitting by the way side, when they heard that Jesus passed by, cried out, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou son of David.”
Matthew 21:9 “And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.”
In these Scriptures it is clearly established that the nation of Israel expected their Messiah to derive – as prophesied - from the tribe of Judah and the house of David, thereby attributing fatherhood of the Messiah to David in accordance with their method of reckoning descent. But David cannot be called the father of God because of his relationship to the man Christ Jesus. Our Lord Himself preempted any possibility of that erroneous belief.
Matthew 22:42-46
“While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.”
Parallel accounts of this episode are found in Mark 12: 35-37, and Luke 20:41-44.
In these Scriptures, our Lord has done what Roman Catholic apologists say may not be done. He has clearly drawn a line between the human nature and the eternal nature of Christ. He has clearly established the fact that David is NOT the father of God, because he is NOT the father of the second person of the blessed trinity. He has clearly shown this distinction of natures to be a mystery – one the Jews of His day could not comprehend any better than the Roman Catholics or Christians of the 21st century.
This mystery of the two fused but separate natures manifest in Christ finds another reference in the following excerpt from the Gospel of John. When confronted by the Jews and constrained to identify himself, John the Baptist’s response included this interesting disclosure: “For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.” (John 3:34) Certainly the Holy Spirit could not have been given to the Second Person of the trinity for He is part of that trinity. So the Holy Spirit that was given without measure was given only to the man Christ Jesus.
Because the Second Person of the blessed trinity is an eternal being having neither a beginning nor an ending, it was the man Christ Jesus who suffered as the second Adam on Calvary and died for the sins of the world. The Second Person of the trinity did not die, cannot die or be put to death. And it’s the man Christ Jesus – not the Second Person of the trinity - who is said Scripturally to be the one mediator between God and man. (1 Tim 2:5) He who is eternal, who could not and cannot die, could not be, and was not, born of the virgin.
No one disputes the fact that Mary is the mother of the human Jesus even though she was not the “supplier” of His human soul. Nor is there any question that the man Christ Jesus was created human in body, soul and spirit. What is disputed is the extension of the title “mother” to a divine nature that eternally existed and was not created in the womb of the virgin. A mother is only the mother of what originates within her womb. The second person of the blessed trinity did not originate in Mary’s body.
He is without beginning – has always existed – and has no mother.
(Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.) (Psalm 90:2) “Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.” (Psalm 93:2) “But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him,” (Psalm 103:17) “Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting: and let all the people say, Amen. Praise ye the LORD.” (Psalm 106:48)
Conclusion: Jesus Christ the man is the son of Mary. The Second Person of the Trinity is her God, not her son, for He did not originate in her womb.
Testimony of an ex-Catholic
I became a born-again Christian when I was 33. I am now 60. I am sorry to say that I undertook the RCIA course of the Catholic Church in 1998 and "became" a Catholic. There were a variety of reasons too long and complicated to go into here. It is only now through the good prayers and talks with a very dear Christian friend that I realize my mistake. Through reading and Bible study I believe the Catholic Church to be utterly corrupt. This corruption stems from the papacy and the sinister cardinals and others associated with it - the twisting of the scripture and the notion that anyone has control over the soul of another. It is clear from scripture that only Christ has power over us. To allow others this privilege is disastrous as I can testify.
Jesus Christ is the one we should be worshipping and Him alone -- never mind the saints, Mary etc. etc. The Catholic Church is the kind of system that Jesus came to destroy - He was so dangerous, the ruling religious elite had him crucified. There are kind and good Catholics, but personally I no longer want to be associated with that church. I have suffered a lot through the past few years. It is only recently that I realize it is due to the spiritual darkness of being a member of a church that is essentially evil.
I have allowed New Age teaching to infiltrate my life. I had statues and other things in my home which I believe come under the heading of Graven Images. I have strayed from the true faith and I am truly sorry for that. But Jesus has saved me (again). I now hope and pray to lead a life that is pleasing to Him. I pray that the darkness that clouded my soul will dissipate in the light of Christ and I will find again the joy I once had before I went off to a "far country".
If this has struck any chord with you and you too feel uneasy about the teachings of the RC church I beg you dont delay - get out of it.
*** Eleanor ***
For more readings, proof of false doctrine in catholicism please see this link. Click here. Some topics to be found include
Useful Resources:
BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 50 versions and 35 languages.
Bible.com - The Bible Online, Bible Prayer Room, Christian Community, Market Place and more..
Bible Questions Answered
4 For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, 5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another. 6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith;
Message from Chad:
I am starting this thread with the sole purpose to open up eyes with the Truth GOD has provided in His Living Word, The Holy Bible. The only true Bible. There is no other Bible but the True Holy Bible 100% inspired by the Holy Spirit and from GOD alone. This is to make aware of the false doctrines out there. The biggest one is the Roman Catholic church. (aka as they call "universal church")
Note: I am living proof of "catholicism" and witnessed it all. My parents sent me to catholic schools all my life, 13 years. My entire family (less a few ex-catholics converted true Christians) are catholics as well. The whole nook and cranny of catholicism is in them. The statues, saints, Haily Mary prayer (what a blasphemous prayer!), the priests who do not marry, added books to their version of the Bible and so forth. No insult, just truth. I am starting this thread with the sole purpose to open up eyes with the Truth GOD has provided in His Living Word, The Holy Bible. The only true Bible. There is no other Bible but the True Holy Bible 100% inspired by the Holy Spirit and from GOD alone. This is to make aware of the false doctrines out there. The biggest one is the Roman Catholic church. (aka as they call "universal church")
This thread is out of love for the lost souls and respect, obedience to the Living Word of GOD which all believers understand to be infallible. This is not judgemental views towards anyone but Agape call for those deceived by the evil one, whom Jesus Christ defeated on Calvary 2000 years ago and will finish him when the day of the Lord comes.
What I have here is a compilation of articles and my own experience, my own compiled verses from GOD's Living Word, the true Bible itself.
Purpose of Thread
- help all the lost see more clearly
- fight against denominations and to be One Body of Christ
- make aware of those who are unaware
- enlighten you so you can preach the Truth with Wisdom gained from GOD's Word by reading this thread and comparing all that I compiled with the Word of GOD for your own proof.
""Roman Catholics do not actually pray to Mary"
Wrong. "Hail Mary" prayer is inside their doctrine
Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death.
Amen.
Catechism of the Catholic Church admits that prayers to Mary are doctrinal:
2675 Beginning with Mary's unique cooperation with the working of the Holy Spirit, the Churches developed their prayer to the holy Mother of God, centering it on the person of Christ manifested in his mysteries...[emphasis mine]
2679 Mary is the perfect Orans (pray-er), a figure of the Church. When we pray to her, we are adhering with her to the plan of the Father, who sends his Son to save all men. Like the beloved disciple we welcome Jesus' mother into our homes, for she has become the mother of all the living. We can pray with and to her. The prayer of the Church is sustained by the prayer of Mary and united with it in hope. [emphasis mine]
Also, Consecration to Mary, which starts off,
"O Mary, Virgin most powerful and Mother of mercy, Queen of Heaven and Refuge of sinners, we consecrate ourselves to thine Immaculate Heart. We consecrate to thee our very being and our whole life; all that we have, all that we love, all that we are. To thee we give our bodies, our hearts and our souls; to thee we give our homes, our families, our country."
This is one of many prayers to Mary. Notice the salutation to Mary, and the giving of our very souls to Mary. I'm sure you can understand how blasphemous this sounds to give our souls to anyone but Jesus Christ!
Sacraments for Salvation?
Catechism states the following:
1129 The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation.
Ephesians 2:8-9
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast."
Now the last clause is very revealing. I think you'd agree that good works are the fruits of true faith. James made that point so eloquently in his epistle. True faith will be evidenced by good works. However, it is equally true that no works will save us, whether they be works of faith (such as giving to the needy, caring for the downtrodden, exhibiting the fruits of the Spirit, etc.), or works of the law. The latter are analogous to the liturgical works (sacraments) of Christendom. No, we will not be saved because we are meek and patient, or because we faithfully performed the sacraments. We will be saved because we placed our faith in Jesus Christ. That was Jesus' teaching as well.
Catholic rejects Papal Infallibility
Regarding the one true church, the following appears in the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
"816 'The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him.'
The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."
As you can see, this one section identifies the Catholic Church as "the sole Church of Christ." Note that the subparagraph is very specific that the "fullness of the means of salvation" can only be obtained through the Catholic Church. There are other sections of the catechism that teach this as well. I encourage you to share this portion of the Catechism with your priest and ask yourselves if you truly believe this Catholic doctrine.
If not, on what other matters of doctrine do you feel the Catholic Church errs? Even without the explicit statement above, the Roman Catholic Church teaches that justification comes only through adherence to the seven sacraments. Most Christian churches (though not all) observe only two -- communion and baptism. And we recognize the biblical teaching that justification and salvation are not imparted by participation in these sacraments. Salvation comes by grace through faith in Christ Jesus.
Romans 10:9-10
"That if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."
Catholic bible:
"2035 The supreme degree of participation in the authority of Christ is ensured by the charism of infallibility. This infallibility extends as far as does the deposit of divine Revelation; it also extends to all those elements of doctrine, including morals, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, explained, or observed."
Prior to 1870, the Catholic Church did not hold papal infallibility as a true doctrine. This changed at Vatican I when Pius IX declared that popes are infallible when speaking ex-cathedra. After this official declaration by Pius IX at Vatican I, papal infallibility was suddenly part of Catholic doctrine. In the 1871 edition of Stephen Keenan's popular Catechism, appeared the following Q & A:
Q. Is the pope infallible?
A. Yes, the pope is infallible.
Q. But some Catholics, before the Vatican Council, denied the infallibility of the pope, which was impugned by this very Catechism.
A. Yes, they did so under the usual reservation, insofar as they then could grasp the mind of the church, and subject to her (the church's) future definitions, thus implicitly accepting the dogma.
Jesus never intended for Christian leadership to exercise such dominion over the laity. In fact, in Matthew 20:25-27, Jesus said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave".
Jesus is the God-man and Mary is His Mother
As a former Roman Catholic, I am well aware of the RCC teaching with respect to Mary as the mother of God. But you see, a created individual cannot be the mother of a divine person who did not originate in her womb. She certainly is the mother of Jesus who was very God and very man, but only Jesus the man originated in her womb. To be the mother of God it would have been necessary for all three persons of the trinity to originate in her womb. But then they wouldn't have been eternal beings; they would not have been God.
The authorized KJV, Jesus never addressed Mary as His mother. On the two occasions reported, Jesus called her "woman." The Bible calls her the "mother of Jesus," not the mother of God.
It was the fallacy of the various Marian doctrines that led me to begin questioning RCC teachings in all areas. When I read the entire New Testament and never found where Mary's body had been assumed into heaven, a red flag went up in my mind. Then, in a second reading of the N.T. I found the Bible identifying by name four blood brothers of our Lord and "sisters" as well, though unnamed. I noticed that Mary's cousin Elisabeth in her old age miraculously conceived her ONLY child, John the Baptist. The Word of God tells us Elisabeth gave birth "to a son." But it also tells us Mary gave birth to her "firstborn son." From all this I began to suspect that the RCC doctrine of Mary's cradle-to-the-grave virginity was a falsehood.
Psalms 69:8-9
"I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto my mother's children. For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me.
Since the latter verse is quoted in John 2:17, I knew both verses were prophetic. After that, I found Paul referring in Galations to "James, the Lord's brother," Historian, Eusebius mentioning both James and Jude as brothers of Jesus, and Jewish historian, Josephus, referring to "James, the brother of Jesus who was the Christ."
Mary's Immaculate Conception
"It simply illogical for the Perfect Christ to have come from an imperfect Mary."
"How could imperfection give birth to Perfection? The ONLY logical explanation is that Mary HAD to have been born without the stain of original sin."
Are you sure you want to stick with this logic? If so, then you must conclude that both of Mary's parents were born without sin as well. After all, if she was born sinless, and imperfection cannot give birth to perfection, then her parents must have been perfect. If that's so, then all four of her grandparents must also have been perfect and sinless, and so on and so forth. That perfection would then have been passed on to Mary's siblings, her cousins, aunts and uncles, etc. etc. The simple logic you wish to argue has now created veritable nation of perfect people. Is this your contention? I think you can see how this argument falls.
The real answer doesn't come burdened with this sort of achille's heel. You're assuming what came from Mary was perfect. However, God the Son existed before Mary. The Son has always existed. His perfection is found in His eternal deity. Mary's role was in the production and nurturing of His human body. His body was not perfect until His assumption. Before then, His body bled, bruised, and scarred. Scripture tells us He was nothing special to look at -- nothing particularly attractive about Him. His body was very, very human and imperfect. His divine nature was perfect, but that did not come from Mary.
Mary is not the "Mother of GOD"
Luke 1:32 “He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:”
Matthew 12:23 “And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?”
Matthew 15:22 “And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.”
Matthew 20:30 “And, behold, two blind men sitting by the way side, when they heard that Jesus passed by, cried out, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou son of David.”
Matthew 21:9 “And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.”
In these Scriptures it is clearly established that the nation of Israel expected their Messiah to derive – as prophesied - from the tribe of Judah and the house of David, thereby attributing fatherhood of the Messiah to David in accordance with their method of reckoning descent. But David cannot be called the father of God because of his relationship to the man Christ Jesus. Our Lord Himself preempted any possibility of that erroneous belief.
Matthew 22:42-46
“While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David. He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? If David then call him Lord, how is he his son? And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.”
Parallel accounts of this episode are found in Mark 12: 35-37, and Luke 20:41-44.
In these Scriptures, our Lord has done what Roman Catholic apologists say may not be done. He has clearly drawn a line between the human nature and the eternal nature of Christ. He has clearly established the fact that David is NOT the father of God, because he is NOT the father of the second person of the blessed trinity. He has clearly shown this distinction of natures to be a mystery – one the Jews of His day could not comprehend any better than the Roman Catholics or Christians of the 21st century.
This mystery of the two fused but separate natures manifest in Christ finds another reference in the following excerpt from the Gospel of John. When confronted by the Jews and constrained to identify himself, John the Baptist’s response included this interesting disclosure: “For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.” (John 3:34) Certainly the Holy Spirit could not have been given to the Second Person of the trinity for He is part of that trinity. So the Holy Spirit that was given without measure was given only to the man Christ Jesus.
Because the Second Person of the blessed trinity is an eternal being having neither a beginning nor an ending, it was the man Christ Jesus who suffered as the second Adam on Calvary and died for the sins of the world. The Second Person of the trinity did not die, cannot die or be put to death. And it’s the man Christ Jesus – not the Second Person of the trinity - who is said Scripturally to be the one mediator between God and man. (1 Tim 2:5) He who is eternal, who could not and cannot die, could not be, and was not, born of the virgin.
No one disputes the fact that Mary is the mother of the human Jesus even though she was not the “supplier” of His human soul. Nor is there any question that the man Christ Jesus was created human in body, soul and spirit. What is disputed is the extension of the title “mother” to a divine nature that eternally existed and was not created in the womb of the virgin. A mother is only the mother of what originates within her womb. The second person of the blessed trinity did not originate in Mary’s body.
He is without beginning – has always existed – and has no mother.
(Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.) (Psalm 90:2) “Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.” (Psalm 93:2) “But the mercy of the LORD is from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him,” (Psalm 103:17) “Blessed be the LORD God of Israel from everlasting to everlasting: and let all the people say, Amen. Praise ye the LORD.” (Psalm 106:48)
Conclusion: Jesus Christ the man is the son of Mary. The Second Person of the Trinity is her God, not her son, for He did not originate in her womb.
Testimony of an ex-Catholic
I became a born-again Christian when I was 33. I am now 60. I am sorry to say that I undertook the RCIA course of the Catholic Church in 1998 and "became" a Catholic. There were a variety of reasons too long and complicated to go into here. It is only now through the good prayers and talks with a very dear Christian friend that I realize my mistake. Through reading and Bible study I believe the Catholic Church to be utterly corrupt. This corruption stems from the papacy and the sinister cardinals and others associated with it - the twisting of the scripture and the notion that anyone has control over the soul of another. It is clear from scripture that only Christ has power over us. To allow others this privilege is disastrous as I can testify.
Jesus Christ is the one we should be worshipping and Him alone -- never mind the saints, Mary etc. etc. The Catholic Church is the kind of system that Jesus came to destroy - He was so dangerous, the ruling religious elite had him crucified. There are kind and good Catholics, but personally I no longer want to be associated with that church. I have suffered a lot through the past few years. It is only recently that I realize it is due to the spiritual darkness of being a member of a church that is essentially evil.
I have allowed New Age teaching to infiltrate my life. I had statues and other things in my home which I believe come under the heading of Graven Images. I have strayed from the true faith and I am truly sorry for that. But Jesus has saved me (again). I now hope and pray to lead a life that is pleasing to Him. I pray that the darkness that clouded my soul will dissipate in the light of Christ and I will find again the joy I once had before I went off to a "far country".
If this has struck any chord with you and you too feel uneasy about the teachings of the RC church I beg you dont delay - get out of it.
*** Eleanor ***
For more readings, proof of false doctrine in catholicism please see this link. Click here. Some topics to be found include
- Definition Differences
- The Sacraments
- The Eucharist Christ -Is Jesus in a piece of bread?
- Mariology (The role of Mary)
- Purgatory
- A Roman Catholic View of Protestantism
- Doctrine of Purgatory Extinguished by Grace
- The Fallacy of Catholicism's Papacy
- The Fraudulent Papacy - a History Lesson
- Scriptural Proof: Mary is Not the Mother of God
- The Myth of Mary's Lifetime Virginity
- Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible
- The truth of the problems with other religions and denominations
Useful Resources:
BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 50 versions and 35 languages.
Bible.com - The Bible Online, Bible Prayer Room, Christian Community, Market Place and more..
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