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Churches Today

Hopeful_One

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
26
I would very much like to find true believers, but the truth I am sharing is for everyone. So many have already given up because of the wickedness, hypocrisy and division they have found in the churches. I am only pointing out emphatically that the modern churches are in error and not representing the true gospel or the Lord Jesus. He is altogether lovely, full of grace and truth and holiness, with great courage. He is not afraid of corruption or wickedness or anything like the modern churches are. Nor is He anything like the modern pastors I have met in most all churches with few exceptions: hypocrites, wolves in sheep's clothing, false brethren, looking to fleece and destroy whom they will. I would warn any sinner not to venture into such churches lest they think they will find the living Christ among the dead hypocrites. As the angels said on resurrection morning, "Why seek ye the living among the dead?"
 
How many of you have been burned in churches and found out the hard way how evil church people can be who call themselves Christian?
Do you believe such people are really representatives of Christ or of something and someone else?
 
How many of you have been burned in churches and found out the hard way how evil church people can be who call themselves Christian?
I did,I searched for love and faith in these buildings made by hands and gave up after several years of being processed like cattle.
I was not looking for doctrines I was looking for unconditional Jesus genuine love and absolute faith in the goodness of God.
My mother had that kind of love and she was catholic.
She was a "don;t worry God is still in control,just love them"type person and to great effect.

I still think love is more important than correct doctrine.1000 years ago almost no one had access to the truth
so love was the only real gospel available.
I strive to understand the scriptures and I see error in my own beliefs.
I got tired of tearing down belief systems and rebuilding them almost daily.
When the internet began I was given the ability to search for the truth for the first time.
Before that I had a stack of books 5 feet high and they were not easy to navigate.
I was studying others mens errors and felt the truth could not be known.
With the internet as a new study tool I was able to navigate through error after error.


If you are doing as commanded and praying for these people then pray in faith that you will be heard.
God said ask me and I will give you the nations.
I think we can ask him for the denomi-nations and imagi-nations also.
When we pray in faith we are supposed to believe we have what we pray for.
Calling people evil after you pray for them in faith is wavering and making an eternal judgement about a temporal situation.

I don;t think people can be evil because of the potential to change but they certainly can do evil.
Being deceived is not evil and it's not easy to see that narrow gate.
Jesus said no man can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw him.
I have the right to pray for potential sons of God and ask the Father to draw them.
I tried this with individuals in my life and have gotten fantastic results.

God is a spirit and he is also love.
He has to put on judgement because thats not what he is.
Standing in the breach for the lost is not for the faint of heart but it is an act of love.
I see potential sons of God everywhere I look.

Complaining about the state of the church is akin to trying to steady the arc of the covenant.
If you see an individual you know should know better then rebuke away but some of us are fishing for the lost and hurting we don't need the kind of noise that scares them away.

100 years of hell fire preaching didn't seem to change the world for the better.
Seeing unconditional love is impressive though.

God is in control,maybe the arc needed to fall in that spot for a reason we will not know because a man felt God needed his help.
God sees,he is not helpless and he is in control of every every quark in every meson in every atom in every molecule in every compound in every...etc..
Those things are in place for a reason,perhaps God needs greedy churches to draw in the greedy.
Those who are interested in truth won't stay long God is able to deliver the Godly out of temptation.
 
I would very much like to find true believers, but the truth I am sharing is for everyone.

And how would you recognize them other than by "their fruits"? The labels people have put on them or even the labels they have taken on themselves won't tell us anything if God is not in it. As to the 'good' fruits, who is to know what they are? Paul has tried to help us in these verses:

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Gal 5:22-23

But, how can a person recognize what each of those listed fruits really is in a person? Jesus did by the Spirit of God, and so it must be with us.

So many have already given up because of the wickedness, hypocrisy and division they have found in the churches. I am only pointing out emphatically that the modern churches are in error and not representing the true gospel or the Lord Jesus. He is altogether lovely, full of grace and truth and holiness, with great courage. He is not afraid of corruption or wickedness or anything like the modern churches are. Nor is He anything like the modern pastors I have met in most all churches with few exceptions: hypocrites, wolves in sheep's clothing, false brethren, looking to fleece and destroy whom they will. I would warn any sinner not to venture into such churches lest they think they will find the living Christ among the dead hypocrites. As the angels said on resurrection morning, "Why seek ye the living among the dead?"

How is a sinner to recognize "such churches" alone? He cannot! This is why no one can really come unless we are drawn by God. God can and does draw people to Him by means of other people, doesn't He?
 
How many of you have been burned in churches and found out the hard way how evil church people can be who call themselves Christian?
Do you believe such people are really representatives of Christ or of something and someone else?
I tend to think that Satan runs most churches (so called) that are present in this country (USA). So I guess I don't get too surprised when I'm persecuted by people who belongs to such. Jesus Was persecuted by the same.

Blessings,

Travis
 
even those in error is so truth is revealed and God is glorified. Do you love them enough to speak the Word of truth in love? or just leave them dead? If one walks away and speaks not, revealing truth and reproving the spirits; ye have become the greatest of hypocrites. Amen.

What church did Jesus go into sit down and get comfortable? Not one. He went in, told them of their hypocrisy and told them what the Father spoke to Him. Yep, they hated Him, sought how they might kill Him, paid a greedy disciple to betray Him, and hang Him on a tree. Amen

Jesus died for those in the chruches. And because they rejected Him, His saving grace was extended unto ALL the world. Now, He has asked us to pick up your cross and follow Him. If one is going to follow in His example, one better be willing to die for His name sake; just as He did for you, we better be willing to do for Him/another. No greater love hath a man than he that will lay down his life for his friend. Amen.

Jesus is my best friend. He is first, always. If one will always put Him first and His neighbor above his own self, one will fulfill all the law. Amen. Now, who will pick up their cross and follow Him with me, even unto death. We shall live and live life more abundantly. It is an eternal thing and we are not flesh and blood, but blood bought spirits walking about. Is He alive in you? Is He consuming your heart, your mind, your body, your strength? Do you know Him? His afflictions, His persecutions, His longsufferings? Amen. He has ask us to arm ourselves likewise; for if they have done it to Him, they will do it to us. Amen.

Glory be to God. All praise, glory and honor be to God. Amen
 
every human is evil.
even Christians.

i dont think we should look to people for unconditional love and perfect faith and holiness.
but we can look to God for that.

but that being said, i have only had good experiences with churches. i am still a new Christian, only about 18 months now, and i have only been to about 7 or 8 different churches, but all the people and preachers i have come across have been very friendly, warm, personable, and nice. Genuine, real people who enjoy other people.

now, i would add that i am not a "people person" and I dont really have much capacity for socializing and the like, so i do not need much from a person in order to consider them friendly and nice. maybe other people, you know the kind of people who really enjoy talking, and socializing, "people people", might have higher standards for other people's friendliness, and thus get disappointed; but for me i have only had good experiences.

now, on the other hand, i can say that nearly every Christian i meet disappoints me when it comes to holiness and sinfulness, general repentance and reverence for God and respect for His word. and in that regard, the church really does disappoint me most of the time. but i am getting over it, realizing that we are all imperfect, and learning how to love people anyways.
 
@Travis and @Hopeful_One
Greetings and blessings and Welcome Hopeful_One.
I want to simply caution you about sslandering ANY of Gods Servants.
There are many scriptures warning us of this. God does not Take this type of thing lightly.
Pray-Forgive-Seek is your best bet.....
Blessings
Jim
 
@Travis and @Hopeful_One
Greetings and blessings and Welcome Hopeful_One.
I want to simply caution you about sslandering ANY of Gods Servants.
There are many scriptures warning us of this. God does not Take this type of thing lightly.
Pray-Forgive-Seek is your best bet.....
Blessings
Jim

Being cautious in regard to calling something a work of God or not is a good idea. "If in doubt leave it out." I'm not in doubt, I'm actually quite certain.

I've seen and experienced enough to be confident in the statement I previously made, knowing that I will answer to the Lord for any careless word I speak. I stand by what I said.

Many false ministries will use this concept of "Touch not the Lord's anointed" to bring about just enough fear in people that it will keep them from speaking out against false doctrine and all manner of evil done in the name of the Lord, because they are afraid they might be cursed by God for doing so. Calling a spade a spade, using discernment, and knowing the lateness of the hour we are in are not bad things. Many people are stuck in a stupor of sleepiness and grogginess and don't know what's going on around them, and it's high time to wake up and smell the roses.

Thank you for the concern, but I do not speak flippantly or capriciously on this subject.

Blessings,

Travis
 
Being cautious in regard to calling something a work of God or not is a good idea. "If in doubt leave it out." I'm not in doubt, I'm actually quite certain.

I've seen and experienced enough to be confident in the statement I previously made, knowing that I will answer to the Lord for any careless word I speak. I stand by what I said.

Many false ministries will use this concept of "Touch not the Lord's anointed" to bring about just enough fear in people that it will keep them from speaking out against false doctrine and all manner of evil done in the name of the Lord, because they are afraid they might be cursed by God for doing so. Calling a spade a spade, using discernment, and knowing the lateness of the hour we are in are not bad things. Many people are stuck in a stupor of sleepiness and grogginess and don't know what's going on around them, and it's high time to wake up and smell the roses.

Thank you for the concern, but I do not speak flippantly or capriciously on this subject.

Blessings,

Travis

Blessings,,,,,,,,,it is in the written word of God...........again be careful what you call false doctrine.....The internet is full of lies concerning false teachers and so is the body of Christ. Christians are using this false teacher passages very wrongly. Just remember pride goes before a fall.....Have a great week
 
Blessings,,,,,,,,,it is in the written word of God...........again be careful what you call false doctrine.....The internet is full of lies concerning false teachers and so is the body of Christ. Christians are using this false teacher passages very wrongly. Just remember pride goes before a fall.....Have a great week


Mmmmm, yes… Sorry for the late reply. Been a busy week thus far.

You said: ",it is in the written word of God"

I assume you are referring to the phrase, "Touch not mine anointed."

You are correct, it is written in the word of God. Let's take a peek:

Psalm 105:8-15 ESV -
8 He remembers his covenant forever, the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations, 9 the covenant that he made with Abraham, his sworn promise to Isaac, 10 which he confirmed to Jacob as a statute, to Israel as an everlasting covenant, 11 saying, "To you I will give the land of Canaan as your portion for an inheritance." 12 When they were few in number, of little account, and sojourners in it, 13 wandering from nation to nation, from one kingdom to another people, 14 he allowed no one to oppress them; he rebuked kings on their account, 15 saying, "Touch not my anointed ones, do my prophets no harm!"​

If someone is buried with Christ, if they are born again, if their name is written in heaven, and they are a part of the church of the firstborn, then they are anointed ones. And, in a sense, all members of the Church of Jesus Christ, who belong to him, are his prophets here on earth.

This phrase, taken out of context, is abused almost non stop by false teachers and false prophets. I find it interesting that you would defend this use of the phrase. I also find it kind of interesting that you are so quick to defend these kind of people too. But I don't want to jump to conclusions too fast, just something for me to ponder. Have you yourself been accused of being a false teacher, of having bad doctrine quite a bit?

Blessings,

Travis
 
Mmmmm, yes… Sorry for the late reply. Been a busy week thus far.

You said: ",it is in the written word of God"

I assume you are referring to the phrase, "Touch not mine anointed."

You are correct, it is written in the word of God. Let's take a peek:

Psalm 105:8-15 ESV -
8 He remembers his covenant forever, the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations, 9 the covenant that he made with Abraham, his sworn promise to Isaac, 10 which he confirmed to Jacob as a statute, to Israel as an everlasting covenant, 11 saying, "To you I will give the land of Canaan as your portion for an inheritance." 12 When they were few in number, of little account, and sojourners in it, 13 wandering from nation to nation, from one kingdom to another people, 14 he allowed no one to oppress them; he rebuked kings on their account, 15 saying, "Touch not my anointed ones, do my prophets no harm!"​

If someone is buried with Christ, if they are born again, if their name is written in heaven, and they are a part of the church of the firstborn, then they are anointed ones. And, in a sense, all members of the Church of Jesus Christ, who belong to him, are his prophets here on earth.

This phrase, taken out of context, is abused almost non stop by false teachers and false prophets. I find it interesting that you would defend this use of the phrase. I also find it kind of interesting that you are so quick to defend these kind of people too. But I don't want to jump to conclusions too fast, just something for me to ponder. Have you yourself been accused of being a false teacher, of having bad doctrine quite a bit?

Blessings,

Travis

Brother if you are trying to be funny, Don't quit your day job.
Listen if you want to go around talking about God's servents out side of Blessings then thats your future.
 
Mmmmm, yes… Sorry for the late reply. Been a busy week thus far.

You said: ",it is in the written word of God"

I assume you are referring to the phrase, "Touch not mine anointed."

You are correct, it is written in the word of God. Let's take a peek:

Psalm 105:8-15 ESV -
8 He remembers his covenant forever, the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations, 9 the covenant that he made with Abraham, his sworn promise to Isaac, 10 which he confirmed to Jacob as a statute, to Israel as an everlasting covenant, 11 saying, "To you I will give the land of Canaan as your portion for an inheritance." 12 When they were few in number, of little account, and sojourners in it, 13 wandering from nation to nation, from one kingdom to another people, 14 he allowed no one to oppress them; he rebuked kings on their account, 15 saying, "Touch not my anointed ones, do my prophets no harm!"​

If someone is buried with Christ, if they are born again, if their name is written in heaven, and they are a part of the church of the firstborn, then they are anointed ones. And, in a sense, all members of the Church of Jesus Christ, who belong to him, are his prophets here on earth.

This phrase, taken out of context, is abused almost non stop by false teachers and false prophets. I find it interesting that you would defend this use of the phrase. I also find it kind of interesting that you are so quick to defend these kind of people too. But I don't want to jump to conclusions too fast, just something for me to ponder. Have you yourself been accused of being a false teacher, of having bad doctrine quite a bit?

Blessings,

Travis


You seem to have your mind made up and for some reason believe you can speak for me. Thats foolishness Brother.
I will leave you with this article written by a pastor.

Have you been around people who constantly want to gossip and make private accusations against your pastor? You may not think it’s that big of a deal or you may just pass them off as having a rude personality, but have you considered that it’s sinful?

Paul wrote in 1 Timothy 5:19 – “Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.” The office of an elder (pastor) is one that must be respected. God has called that person to that office and anyone who has an accusation against that man must be extremely careful in how that accusation is carried out. The Devil uses false accusations to harm pastors and their ministries, therefore, when a pastor is confronted with a sin it must be handled very carefully.

BEWARE: The one who accuses the pastor must do so in the proper manner. Paul said that accusations are to be made against a pastor in his presence with two or three witnesses. This is to be done in order to provide accountability and protection for the pastor in such accusations. This allows for the accusation to be heard, investigated, and substantiated before it goes before the entire church.

This statement by Paul completely outlaws accusations that are made privately in the form of gossip, text messages, e-mails, anonymous blogs, or over the phone behind the pastor’s back. Those types of accusations are nothing more than slanderous attacks against the office of elder (pastor) and God takes that type of thing very seriously. That is why Paul speaks of this in 1 Timothy 5:19.

John MacArthur writes:

There are always people eager to falsely accuse a man of God. They may do so because they resent his calling, reject his teaching, resist biblical authority, resent virtue, or are jealous of the Lord’s blessing on his life. Ultimately, however, they demonstrate by making such accusations that they have become messengers of Satan. Such false accusations are one of his most dangerous weapons. Joseph, Moses, David, Jeremiah, Nehemiah, and our Lord Jesus Christ all suffered from false accusations (The MacArthur New Testament Commentary, 1 Timothy, 221).

Hebrews 13:17 says, ” Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.” It is an unprofitable thing to reject and undermine the leadership of your pastor according to the writer to the Hebrews. Anyone who seeks to gossip against or attack their pastor behind his back should be viewed as one who is in clear violation of God’s Word and a tool of Satan.

1 Thessalonians 5:12-13 says, “And we beseech you, brethren, to know them which labour among you, and are over you in the Lord, and admonish you; And to esteem them very highly in love for their work’s sake. And be at peace among yourselves.” Again, we see that the pastor should be esteemed (respected) highly in love because of the work he is called to do. What work? The work of laboring in Word and doctrine and shepherding the flock of God.

BEWARE: The one who accepts accusations against their pastor must do so in the proper manner. According to 1 Timothy 5:19 – the elder (pastor) is to be accused before two or three witnesses – not in a private conversation behind his back. Therefore, any member of the church or leader in the church who accepts an accusation against their pastor in a private setting without hearing it before the pastor himself is guilty of sin. Why did God put these things in Paul’s heart as he wrote 1 Timothy? As Paul was writing to his young preacher named Timothy – he wanted to inform him of how pastors are to be accused of wrongdoing. Paul understood that the wolves would come out in opposition and attack the pastor who truly labors in the Word. So, he placed some guidelines for how a pastor is to be accused in order to prevent false gossip, the rumor mill, and wolves who have a thirst for blood from bringing an attack against their pastor that could destroy his ministry.

Therefore, it goes without saying, that if a pastor has sinned or done wrong, he should be confronted. This confrontation should be done in the proper manner. If the pastor does not repent, the accusation should be presented before the church in order to further admonish him and call for him to repent. If at that point, the pastor still does not repent, the church should move through their proper steps of removing him from serving since he has a hard heart and is unwilling to repent of his sin.

To confront your pastor of sin is a very serious charge and should be taken extremely seriously. No person should be on a campaign to constantly confront their pastor of wrongdoing unless their is absolute clear evidence of sin. Those people in the church who are constantly on a slander attack against their pastor should likewise be held to the standards of discipline found in Matthew 18. If they refuse to repent, they should be excommunicated from the church in order to protect the purity of the church and the office of the pastor. This should be done with the utmost care and respect – and in both cases – it should be done with a goal of restoration.

Therefore, true believers should work together, worship together, pray for one another, help one another and have the unity of the Spirit and the bond of peace that comes through Jesus Christ. The church should always watch and beware of attacks against their pastor and against one another because the wicked one is always looking to stir up confusion and harm the ministry of Christ in the community.
 
Brother if you are trying to be funny, Don't quit your day job.
Listen if you want to go around talking about God's servents out side of Blessings then thats your future.

Woah... No need to get upset.

No, I'm not trying to be funny. I'm dead serious. There are some pretty stern warnings in the word of God about false prophets and false teachers. Most the ones I see refer to eternal damnation. I'm not quite sure what is funny about that.

If someone was "my pastor", that God had provided to care for me, then yes I should go directly to them with my complaint. No one I've referred to yet falls under that category, and you don't fall under that category either. I find that people that are so quick to avoid any sort of openness or use of discernment when talking about others doctrines do so because they fall under the category I mentioned above (False prophet or false teacher), or because they themselves have been hurt by stone throwers in the past ( whether rightly or wrongly so). There are numerous examples of Jesus, Paul, John, and others calling out publically those who are in error, or leading Gods children astray, without talking to them one on one first. Paul openly rebuked Peter before them all, he didn't take him aside and have a nice little conversation with him.

When people make their teachings public (radio ministry, broadcast sermons, write books, post blogs/articles, write posts on a forum) then criticizing anything they do or say falls into a public category as well, I have no obligation to go to them privately.

I haven't really got into any particulars in this conversation and named any names, yet you are still resisting what I say so avidly. This confuses me and makes me wonder why. Have you been hurt in the past by discernment ministries?

Blessings,

Travis
 
Woah... No need to get upset.

No, I'm not trying to be funny. I'm dead serious. There are some pretty stern warnings in the word of God about false prophets and false teachers. Most the ones I see refer to eternal damnation. I'm not quite sure what is funny about that.

If someone was "my pastor", that God had provided to care for me, then yes I should go directly to them with my complaint. No one I've referred to yet falls under that category, and you don't fall under that category either. I find that people that are so quick to avoid any sort of openness or use of discernment when talking about others doctrines do so because they fall under the category I mentioned above (False prophet or false teacher), or because they themselves have been hurt by stone throwers in the past ( whether rightly or wrongly so). There are numerous examples of Jesus, Paul, John, and others calling out publically those who are in error, or leading Gods children astray, without talking to them one on one first. Paul openly rebuked Peter before them all, he didn't take him aside and have a nice little conversation with him.

When people make their teachings public (radio ministry, broadcast sermons, write books, post blogs/articles, write posts on a forum) then criticizing anything they do or say falls into a public category as well, I have no obligation to go to them privately.

I haven't really got into any particulars in this conversation and named any names, yet you are still resisting what I say so avidly. This confuses me and makes me wonder why. Have you been hurt in the past by discernment ministries?

Blessings,

Travis


Brother it is all good. I have only responed from each of your replies. Nope never been hurt.
Re read some of your replies and itmight make better sense to you. Blessings
 
The early Church started in their own homes. I believe this is where the true Church is today. There are no overhead costs to worry about, and those in authority are not tempted to see the ministry as a way of making money. Ministry is done outside the four walls of buildings not inside.

Act 2:46 And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts,
 
The early Church started in their own homes. I believe this is where the true Church is today. There are no overhead costs to worry about, and those in authority are not tempted to see the ministry as a way of making money. Ministry is done outside the four walls of buildings not inside.

Act 2:46 And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts,

This is true and it fits right in with the ministry I believe He is unfolding into our lives. It's kind of like the old tent meetings but with out the tents. :whistle 47 foot trawler and the water ways... this has been in the makings for a while and just spent over a year researching and praying until we know that we know that we know we have found the correct choice in a vessle. Excited and ready for that full time live aboard life Brother.....
 
This is true and it fits right in with the ministry I believe He is unfolding into our lives. It's kind of like the old tent meetings but with out the tents. :whistle 47 foot trawler and the water ways... this has been in the makings for a while and just spent over a year researching and praying until we know that we know that we know we have found the correct choice in a vessle. Excited and ready for that full time live aboard life Brother.....
Yep, I was baptized in the Holy Spirit in an old tent revival many years ago. Every time I see a big tent set up I tell my wife, "Look honey a revival", and she says "no dear that is a circus" :(
 
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