Close, so very very close....

[brakelite]

Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not troubled:for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

There is a great escalation in verse 7 from the previous verse where war was simply rumor and hearsay. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries the world was full of confidence and great expectation of a coming millennium of peace and safety brought about by very recent remarkable advances in scientific knowledge in industry and medicine. Christianity was held dear by the vast majority of those living in the world, before communism took over in Russia, before the Chinese shut out the missionaries from the west, before Japan turned away the church from their doors. And by far the vast majority of Christians believed in a soon coming millennium to be brought about by the efforts of man himself. Most saw the future with an eagerness and expectation of God’s kingdom being established in their lifetime… Bible Societies were springing up all over the world, missionaries were entering places never before thought possible; stories were coming from people like Taylor in China, Livingstone in Africa. These stories were hugely popular and helped imbue a great missionary zeal throughout the Christian world.

Until WW1. This dashed hopes and shocked many. Any remaining hope was expunged by the great depression and WW2. Instead of society improving into a godly utopia, the world crashed into chaos. The 20th century turned into a bloodbath. The planet began to turn itself into one vast war cemetery. More wars and war related deaths than the previous 6000 years of man’s history put together. All in just 100 years. Not only 2 world wars, but also Vietnam, Rwanda, Ethiopia, Chechnya, Northern Ireland, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Palestine, and on and on and on. And it hasn’t stopped.

...and there shall be famines...

War is evil and devastating both on man and beast. Add to that famine , and things escalate exponentially. Hunger , in any sense of the word, is not good. During wartime, it is infinitely worse.

...and pestilences...

War and famine is bad enough, but add disease and it gets ten times worse.

and earthquakes, in divers places.

And then we have those hungry, diseased war-torn people without anywhere to live because their homes are destroyed and once again you see an escalation in these sorrows,and these disasters can be natural, or man-made as a result of the wars, yet

8 All these are the (Only the) beginning of sorrows.

However, notice something else about the previous scenario. At first we see nations and kingdoms divided. They are at war with one another, there is strife among the nations of the world, there is no accord, no peace, and no agreement.Yet just 2 verses after reading the “nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom,” verse we read

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.

Who is “they”? Well surely it must be the nations which were not long before fighting one another. And here we see them united against God’s people!!

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.


And not only do the nations hate God’s people, but God’s people are being offended and turning each other over to the authorities. (Jesus warned us elsewhere of the time when our enemies will be those of our own household, and that there will come a time when those who kill us will think they are serving God.) Who are these who get offended? See Matthew 13:21. Those who get offended are fellow Christians who do not endure the coming persecution of the nations. All this however leads me to the following question. What was it that changed the mindset of the divided nations to make them unite? What was it that motivated the nations to give up their hatred against one another, and turn it toward God’s redeemed ?

Take another look at the above verses. Verse 7 describes war. Verse 9 describes the united front against the church. So what happened in between those two verses? The natural disasters!!! It is the natural disasters that bring the nations together.

What has happened in recent history? After WW1 the league of nations was formed. It failed. After WW2 the Untied Nations was formed. It also has been a failure, and continues to be. After 9/11 the president of the US called upon all the nations of the world to unite against terrorism. We have seen unprecedented international support following hurricane Katrina, the Asian Tsunami, and now the Haiti and Chilean earthquakes. We daily witness records being smashed with regard to tornadoes and hurricanes in both frequency, numbers and strength. We have seen just what the prophecy portrayed, a massive escalation in natural disasters. And we also see more and more the world uniting to help the victims and repair the damage. After the economic crash 2 years ago we saw the same. Calls for a “New World Order” are coming now thick and fast, from political leaders the world over, and even the pope. In fact the pope has gone on record saying that he was the only person with the standing and moral integrity to lead this NWO. Many leading politicians of the world agree with this, and have been queuing up outside the Vatican front door to show their support in droves. And the latest is climate change. In Copenhagen we saw for the first time the words “One world government” in an international treaty. One world government has leaped confidently from the conspiracy basket to current affairs. Note the following quote from the newly elected leader of the EU.

In accepting his appointment as the first president of the European Union, Belgian Prime Minister Herman Van Rompuy announced that “global governance” is the only way to address the crises that beset the planet.

In a Christmas speech of 2005 Pope Benedict first spoke these now favored global warming scare tactics of pandemics, economic situation, and terrorism as good reasons to “let the child of Bethlehem take you by the hand” into a much needed global government that will fix all these problems.
Today, the terms “global government”, “one world government”, “new world order” and similar expressions are so common place coming from the lips of world leaders, that the media has stopped reporting on it.

Note the following words of Jesus…
Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

With perplexity. This means that the nations are faced with such an insurmountable set of problems that they see no way out. So they unite in an attempt to solve the crisis. And we see that happening before our very eyes. The world is today uniting in an unprecedented manner to combat the problems that are facing mankind. But rather than turning to God in repentance and reformation, the leaders of the world are turning to one another, relying on their own wisdom and understanding to solve the crisis. Prophecy however does tell us that God will be an integral part of the coming NWO, for Revelation tells us that a form of worship is enforced upon all men. So a form of recognition to a spiritual component brings about the mark spoken of in Revelation 13.
But why attack the church?

Because they are united not only politically, but also in a global counterfeit Christian system of religion ( Babylon the Great). They not only establish political laws, but also religious. They establish , as can be read in Rev 13, laws that pertain to worship, but because the disasters continue, against their most cherished hopes, and despite their best attempts to placate what they believe to be the end-time judgments of an angry God, the crisis only deepens, and they end up blaming those who have not bowed themselves to the NWO. … God’s people.

The time is right upon us. Even at the doors. Look up, for our redemption draweth nigh.

 

[just-a-servant]

Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not troubled:for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

There is a great escalation in verse 7 from the previous verse where war was simply rumor and hearsay. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries the world was full of confidence and great expectation of a coming millennium of peace and safety brought about by very recent remarkable advances in scientific knowledge in industry and medicine. Christianity was held dear by the vast majority of those living in the world, before communism took over in Russia, before the Chinese shut out the missionaries from the west, before Japan turned away the church from their doors. And by far the vast majority of Christians believed in a soon coming millennium to be brought about by the efforts of man himself. Most saw the future with an eagerness and expectation of God’s kingdom being established in their lifetime… Bible Societies were springing up all over the world, missionaries were entering places never before thought possible; stories were coming from people like Taylor in China, Livingstone in Africa. These stories were hugely popular and helped imbue a great missionary zeal throughout the Christian world.

Until WW1. This dashed hopes and shocked many. Any remaining hope was expunged by the great depression and WW2. Instead of society improving into a godly utopia, the world crashed into chaos. The 20th century turned into a bloodbath. The planet began to turn itself into one vast war cemetery. More wars and war related deaths than the previous 6000 years of man’s history put together. All in just 100 years. Not only 2 world wars, but also Vietnam, Rwanda, Ethiopia, Chechnya, Northern Ireland, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan, Palestine, and on and on and on. And it hasn’t stopped.

...and there shall be famines...

War is evil and devastating both on man and beast. Add to that famine , and things escalate exponentially. Hunger , in any sense of the word, is not good. During wartime, it is infinitely worse.

...and pestilences...

War and famine is bad enough, but add disease and it gets ten times worse.

and earthquakes, in divers places.

And then we have those hungry, diseased war-torn people without anywhere to live because their homes are destroyed and once again you see an escalation in these sorrows,and these disasters can be natural, or man-made as a result of the wars, yet

8 All these are the (Only the) beginning of sorrows.

However, notice something else about the previous scenario. At first we see nations and kingdoms divided. They are at war with one another, there is strife among the nations of the world, there is no accord, no peace, and no agreement.Yet just 2 verses after reading the “nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom,” verse we read

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.

Who is “they”? Well surely it must be the nations which were not long before fighting one another. And here we see them united against God’s people!!

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.


And not only do the nations hate God’s people, but God’s people are being offended and turning each other over to the authorities. (Jesus warned us elsewhere of the time when our enemies will be those of our own household, and that there will come a time when those who kill us will think they are serving God.) Who are these who get offended? See Matthew 13:21. Those who get offended are fellow Christians who do not endure the coming persecution of the nations. All this however leads me to the following question. What was it that changed the mindset of the divided nations to make them unite? What was it that motivated the nations to give up their hatred against one another, and turn it toward God’s redeemed ?

Take another look at the above verses. Verse 7 describes war. Verse 9 describes the united front against the church. So what happened in between those two verses? The natural disasters!!! It is the natural disasters that bring the nations together.

What has happened in recent history? After WW1 the league of nations was formed. It failed. After WW2 the Untied Nations was formed. It also has been a failure, and continues to be. After 9/11 the president of the US called upon all the nations of the world to unite against terrorism. We have seen unprecedented international support following hurricane Katrina, the Asian Tsunami, and now the Haiti and Chilean earthquakes. We daily witness records being smashed with regard to tornadoes and hurricanes in both frequency, numbers and strength. We have seen just what the prophecy portrayed, a massive escalation in natural disasters. And we also see more and more the world uniting to help the victims and repair the damage. After the economic crash 2 years ago we saw the same. Calls for a “New World Order” are coming now thick and fast, from political leaders the world over, and even the pope. In fact the pope has gone on record saying that he was the only person with the standing and moral integrity to lead this NWO. Many leading politicians of the world agree with this, and have been queuing up outside the Vatican front door to show their support in droves. And the latest is climate change. In Copenhagen we saw for the first time the words “One world government” in an international treaty. One world government has leaped confidently from the conspiracy basket to current affairs. Note the following quote from the newly elected leader of the EU.

In accepting his appointment as the first president of the European Union, Belgian Prime Minister Herman Van Rompuy announced that “global governance” is the only way to address the crises that beset the planet.

In a Christmas speech of 2005 Pope Benedict first spoke these now favored global warming scare tactics of pandemics, economic situation, and terrorism as good reasons to “let the child of Bethlehem take you by the hand” into a much needed global government that will fix all these problems.
Today, the terms “global government”, “one world government”, “new world order” and similar expressions are so common place coming from the lips of world leaders, that the media has stopped reporting on it.

Note the following words of Jesus…
Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

With perplexity. This means that the nations are faced with such an insurmountable set of problems that they see no way out. So they unite in an attempt to solve the crisis. And we see that happening before our very eyes. The world is today uniting in an unprecedented manner to combat the problems that are facing mankind. But rather than turning to God in repentance and reformation, the leaders of the world are turning to one another, relying on their own wisdom and understanding to solve the crisis. Prophecy however does tell us that God will be an integral part of the coming NWO, for Revelation tells us that a form of worship is enforced upon all men. So a form of recognition to a spiritual component brings about the mark spoken of in Revelation 13.
But why attack the church?

Because they are united not only politically, but also in a global counterfeit Christian system of religion ( Babylon the Great). They not only establish political laws, but also religious. They establish , as can be read in Rev 13, laws that pertain to worship, but because the disasters continue, against their most cherished hopes, and despite their best attempts to placate what they believe to be the end-time judgments of an angry God, the crisis only deepens, and they end up blaming those who have not bowed themselves to the NWO. … God’s people.

The time is right upon us. Even at the doors. Look up, for our redemption draweth nigh.

You've painted a picture with a brush so wide it could include any world development in any time period as a component of these scriptures. My guess is you're parroting something you've heard (or read) from the many purveyors of the doomsday crowd.

You've made statements which can't be verified. Those statements may be your opinion, or the opinions of others, but they're only that, opinions. Try not to inflame the good judgment of the masses by claiming "the sky is falling, the sky is falling." It serves no real purpose.

I do think we're in the end times and I think it's okay to present evidence which is supported by the scripture that we are. Evidence like earthquakes have increased by X% in the last century or death from famine has increased in these areas by X number of people since 1900, etc. However, where I differ with you is in not trying to make each piece of the puzzle fit into a nice little package by saying what this means or what that means. Really you have no clue, only speculation and opinion. This type of rhetoric only leads to alarm-ism and panic.

I think you may have some insight into the affairs of man but they probably need to be re-stated. I'd be delighted to read a re-post of your article which you have thoroughly researched. We may all gain from your work.

IMHO,
just-a-servant

 

[Strypes]

The world stage has been set. We can discern that by the Holy Spirit and the nightly news.

There is a song by Casting Crowns called "Until the Whole World Hears" (you can find it on youtube) and a lyric in it is "ready yourselves"... "Let us shine the light of Jesus in the darkest night"

That is what we should focus on..


Matthew 24:14

And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

 

[brakelite]

You've painted a picture with a brush so wide it could include any world development in any time period as a component of these scriptures. My guess is you're parroting something you've heard (or read) from the many purveyors of the doomsday crowd.

You've made statements which can't be verified. Those statements may be your opinion, or the opinions of others, but they're only that, opinions. Try not to inflame the good judgment of the masses by claiming "the sky is falling, the sky is falling." It serves no real purpose.

I do think we're in the end times and I think it's okay to present evidence which is supported by the scripture that we are. Evidence like earthquakes have increased by X% in the last century or death from famine has increased in these areas by X number of people since 1900, etc. However, where I differ with you is in not trying to make each piece of the puzzle fit into a nice little package by saying what this means or what that means. Really you have no clue, only speculation and opinion. This type of rhetoric only leads to alarm-ism and panic.

I think you may have some insight into the affairs of man but they probably need to be re-stated. I'd be delighted to read a re-post of your article which you have thoroughly researched. We may all gain from your work.

IMHO,
just-a-servant

Your criticism is also with a wide brush...perhaps if you could be a little more specific in your disagreement with my observations and conclusions then.....

 

[Fraction]

He's agreeing with you that we are in the end times, and it grows closer and closer everyday (the second coming).

However, we do not know when the prophecies will actually be fulfilled in God's eyes. Take war and rumors of war for example. This has existed since the start of time. There have always been war and rumors of war and even desires for war. (the united states actually can make some money from war, since we produce weapons and jobs for soldiers) When will this prophecy be fulfilled? Is it already? Is there a world wide event that will happen that will fulfill it? Only God knows when his own prophecies will be fulfilled and what will fulfill them at a specific moment or event.

Are these prophecies already fulfilled? Maybe. Are they just in the process of getting fulfilled? Maybe.

These types of conversations can provoke panic in people who are unbelievers and even baby believers. This topic kind of scares a whole lot of people. It shouldn't but it does because they are young and lack further understanding. I do believe this is why the gospel of Jesus Christ is pushed so hard in the bible, and not "the end is coming the end is coming!". We need to be VERY careful, because we have seen how people can abuse the end times.

Correct me if I am wrong just-a-servent.

Take no offense, I am not exactly disagreeing with anyone. I am just stating what I think and believe.

 

[just-a-servant]

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

And not only do the nations hate God’s people, but God’s people are being offended and turning each other over to the authorities. (Jesus warned us elsewhere of the time when our enemies will be those of our own household, and that there will come a time when those who kill us will think they are serving God.) Who are these who get offended? See Matthew 13:21. Those who get offended are fellow Christians who do not endure the coming persecution of the nations. All this however leads me to the following question. What was it that changed the mindset of the divided nations to make them unite? What was it that motivated the nations to give up their hatred against one another, and turn it toward God’s redeemed ?

Take another look at the above verses. Verse 7 describes war. Verse 9 describes the united front against the church. So what happened in between those two verses? The natural disasters!!! It is the natural disasters that bring the nations together.


Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

With perplexity. This means that the nations are faced with such an insurmountable set of problems that they see no way out. So they unite in an attempt to solve the crisis. And we see that happening before our very eyes. The world is today uniting in an unprecedented manner to combat the problems that are facing mankind. But rather than turning to God in repentance and reformation, the leaders of the world are turning to one another, relying on their own wisdom and understanding to solve the crisis. Prophecy however does tell us that God will be an integral part of the coming NWO, for Revelation tells us that a form of worship is enforced upon all men. So a form of recognition to a spiritual component brings about the mark spoken of in Revelation 13.
But why attack the church?

Because they are united not only politically, but also in a global counterfeit Christian system of religion ( Babylon the Great). They not only establish political laws, but also religious. They establish , as can be read in Rev 13, laws that pertain to worship, but because the disasters continue, against their most cherished hopes, and despite their best attempts to placate what they believe to be the end-time judgments of an angry God, the crisis only deepens, and they end up blaming those who have not bowed themselves to the NWO. … God’s people.

The time is right upon us. Even at the doors. Look up, for our redemption draweth nigh.

The comments I've highlighted in red are just a few of the statements you've painted with a broad brush. None of the statements have any basis in fact and are your interpretation of historical and current events molded to fit your view of the prophecy. You started out with a preconceived end then made the scripture fit your model.

In the first paragraph above, the two sentences in red reflect your opinion of what the end times christian brothers will be doing to each other. You really don't know what they will be doing, do you? How can you present it as fact when there is really no way of knowing?

In the second paragraph above, again in red, you declare that the natural disasters occur between the war and the united front of the church. Which war? Which manifestation of the ecumenical church? These events as you've described them haven't occurred. How then can you KNOW that's the way it will be? Are you a prophet?

The paragraph of yours beginning, "With perplexity . . ." may some day prove to be true or partly true, but it could just as easily be some other trigger that sets events in motion. The long and the short of it is you really don't know, you are merely speculating.

Then the brash statement of "God will be an integral part of the coming NWO . . ." is pure hogwash from the standpoint of His being a partner in it. I agree He will allow whatever is to be, to be, however including Him as a "member" is like calling Him a thief because He allows thieves to steal.

Lastly, your comment about a "counterfeit Christian system of religion" is without merit of any kind. What makes you think it will be "Christian? Is there some special knowledge or a scripture passage saying the false religion will be Christian? What about Islam? Buddhism? Or any religion of the ages? Could there be a new one waiting in the wings?

Now, I've only answered a few of the concerns in your post. Look back and apply the same questions I have to review. If what you have said can be said with certainty, then you are on the right track. If what you've written, and for that matter what you think, can't be said with certainty, then it's time for more study. Don't be alarmist, instead present your ideas to others asking what they think - seeking wise counsel. It is then you should present your ideas to the world.

He's agreeing with you that we are in the end times, and it grows closer and closer everyday (the second coming).

However, we do not know when the prophecies will actually be fulfilled in God's eyes. Take war and rumors of war for example. This has existed since the start of time. There have always been war and rumors of war and even desires for war. (the united states actually can make some money from war, since we produce weapons and jobs for soldiers) When will this prophecy be fulfilled? Is it already? Is there a world wide event that will happen that will fulfill it? Only God knows when his own prophecies will be fulfilled and what will fulfill them at a specific moment or event.

Are these prophecies already fulfilled? Maybe. Are they just in the process of getting fulfilled? Maybe.

These types of conversations can provoke panic in people who are unbelievers and even baby believers. This topic kind of scares a whole lot of people. It shouldn't but it does because they are young and lack further understanding. I do believe this is why the gospel of Jesus Christ is pushed so hard in the bible, and not "the end is coming the end is coming!". We need to be VERY careful, because we have seen how people can abuse the end times.

Correct me if I am wrong just-a-servent.

Take no offense, I am not exactly disagreeing with anyone. I am just stating what I think and believe.

Thank you for your words Fraction, you said what I was thinking more eloquently than I did.

IMHO,
just-a-servant

 

[brakelite]

An explaination

I have copied your highlighted portions, and will attempt to clarify my reasoning.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

And not only do the nations hate God’s people, but God’s people are being offended and turning each other over to the authorities.

You said quote: None of the statements have any basis in fact and are your interpretation of historical and current events molded to fit your view of the prophecy. You started out with a preconceived end then made the scripture fit your model.
On the contrary. As I said in my post, Jesus, a fair time before I thought of it, said,
(Jesus warned us elsewhere of the time when our enemies will be those of our own household, and that there will come a time when those who kill us will think they are serving God.) Now if those who are turning us over to the authorities and having us killed believe they are serving God, then are they not brethren? I appreciate you may be thinking 'why not Islamists etc' ; in another thread I am in the process of showing why that is an untenable conclusion, and that the final crisis of our age is not between non Christian religions or even secular governments, but between worshippers of the true God not seeing eye to eye on matters of conscience.This is hardly a new idea, for history reveals that since Cain rose up against Abel, brothers have never ceased to fight over the subject of worship,( case in point, the inquisitions of the dark ages) and a quick perusal of Revel. 13 shows worship is the central issue of the future crisis.


Who are these who get offended? See Matthew 13:21. Those who get offended are fellow Christians who do not endure the coming persecution of the nations.
Again, I am taking Jesus words and applying them...comparing scripture with scripture....Jesus in His parable said that many would be offended and turn away from the truth because of pressure and persecution. Now in my experience, and I am sure you have witnessed this yourself, that people who were once in the faith but for one reason or another turn away, often become the most bitter opponents thereafter. When Jesus first says in a parable that some would receive the gospel with joy but would be offended and turn away when tribulations come, them a few chapters later says again that after tribulations those same offended would betray others, then am I not entitled to believe what He is telling us there? That brethren will betray brethren?


All this however leads me to the following question. What was it that changed the mindset of the divided nations to make them unite? What was it that motivated the nations to give up their hatred against one another, and turn it toward God’s redeemed ?

Take another look at the above verses. Verse 7 describes war. Verse 9 describes the united front against the church. So what happened in between those two verses? The natural disasters!!! It is the natural disasters that bring the nations together.
Not quite sure why you've singled that out; unless you think Jesus isn't speaking of things chronologically.I do. First wars and rumours of wars, nations fighting one another ( at present over 35 distinct wars globally in progress as you read this), then natural disasters, (as Jesus said in Luke "with perplexity)0 which means they have no solutions to the insurmountable trouble that has come upon the nations ) followed by a united front of all nations against God's eople. This is simply reading the scriptures as Jesus gave them I do not have to fit an historical or modern day application to them in order to give them meaning. Jesus couldn't have been clearer. That said, when we do look at the news reports of the day and see an unprecedented rise in the number of natural disasters worldwide and a proportionate increase in co-operation between nations in order to recover from the massive impact these disasters are having, even nations that in my lifetime were at war with one another, why am I not justified in applying current affairs to the prophecy? Some would contend that we ought not speculate on such matters because we cannot be sure if such and such event actually fulfills the prophecy, or a later event. So what do we wait for? Paul tells us in 1 Thess. 5 that the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night for many, but not for those he was writing to. Why? Because they were watching and staying sober. They were watching history and current events, and they would know the scriptures. The day of the Lord to them would not be a surprise as it would be to others.




Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

With perplexity. This means that the nations are faced with such an insurmountable set of problems that they see no way out. So they unite in an attempt to solve the crisis. And we see that happening before our very eyes. The world is today uniting in an unprecedented manner to combat the problems that are facing mankind. But rather than turning to God in repentance and reformation, the leaders of the world are turning to one another, relying on their own wisdom and understanding to solve the crisis. Prophecy however does tell us that God will be an integral part of the coming NWO, for Revelation tells us that a form of worship is enforced upon all men. So a form of recognition to a spiritual component brings about the mark spoken of in Revelation 13.
But why attack the church?

Because they are united not only politically, but also in a global counterfeit Christian system of religion ( Babylon the Great). They not only establish political laws, but also religious. They establish , as can be read in Rev 13, laws that pertain to worship, but because the disasters continue, against their most cherished hopes, and despite their best attempts to placate what they believe to be the end-time judgments of an angry God, the crisis only deepens, and they end up blaming those who have not bowed themselves to the NWO. … God’s people.

The time is right upon us. Even at the doors. Look up, for our redemption draweth nigh.

My contention that Babylon the Great is a professedly Christian religion will eventually be explained and fully laid out in my other thread 'were they right'?

 

[Armin]

You said quote: None of the statements have any basis in fact and are your interpretation of historical and current events molded to fit your view of the prophecy. You started out with a preconceived end then made the scripture fit your model.
On the contrary. As I said in my post, Jesus, a fair time before I thought of it, said,
(Jesus warned us elsewhere of the time when our enemies will be those of our own household, and that there will come a time when those who kill us will think they are serving God.) Now if those who are turning us over to the authorities and having us killed believe they are serving God, then are they not brethren? I appreciate you may be thinking 'why not Islamists etc' ; in another thread I am in the process of showing why that is an untenable conclusion, and that the final crisis of our age is not between non Christian religions or even secular governments, but between worshippers of the true God not seeing eye to eye on matters of conscience.This is hardly a new idea, for history reveals that since Cain rose up against Abel, brothers have never ceased to fight over the subject of worship,( case in point, the inquisitions of the dark ages) and a quick perusal of Revel. 13 shows worship is the central issue of the future crisis.

Then what about "Chryslam?"

 

[rodd]

The begins of the fulfilling of prophesy began with the re-emergence of Israel and the re-population of that land from all nations.
Armin, the persecution of Christians will occur through the secular governments in the last days through their imposition of humanistic laws for religious harmony.
These take their stand against the Lord and his annointed.
The scripture that states many will be offended and turn ones over to authorities has and was forfilled in the days of the disciples Jesus spoke to, persecutions throughout history as well as in our day, it was a warning, this is what will be, in general.
Jesus staed a mans enemies will be of his household.
I also think that a counterfeit Christianity does exist in the Roman Catholic church and their evangelic infilltrators. These are bent on the destruction of all reform Christian truth.
They engender a good works based theology, based on performance impressing God and one another. The result is self-righteousness, and the destruction of the gospel.

Rodd.