Expel the immoral brother/sister?

[redeemed4life]

Hello. I've been debating for years and years whether I need to stop being friends with a friend who claims he is a Christian, but lives his life in spiritual darkness. He claims on and off that he is making spiritual breakthroughs with God in his faith, but his life does not show it at all. I have tried on numerous occasions to speak the truth with boldness and grace, but he always says I'm judging him. Whenever I am around him, his sin tempts me and brings me down. He has been recently been separated from his wife and does not want to reconcile with her. He is addicted to pornography and regularly jokes about sexual things. I've tried helping him seek help and healing with his addiction, but he thinks it is no big deal. He's recently confessed to me that he's been going to strip clubs, sex shops, and sleeping around with a divorced woman who is 12 years older then he is. He's choosing to live an unrepentant lifestyle and it is a very dangerous route to take. It seems at times, he thinks he can sin all the more, and God will just forgive him. I feel he is walking a dangerous path and "testing" God to see how far he can go and still get away with it. My heart breaks for him because he's throwing his life away to pursue his own desires and he's choosing to walk away from God.

I deeply care for him and want him to come back to God, however, I feel like I'm exhausting myself because he's refusing to listen. I have been tempted and have fallen into sin when we are around one another and it kills me. I do not want to give into sin and walk in spiritual darkness as he is. I care for him, but I feel like I cannot continue to be his friend and brother in Christ because he is deliberately walking in spiritual darkness and his sin constantly tempts me whenever I'm around him. I do not want to wreck my witness for Christ and turn him away from God even more if I choose to tell him I cannot be his friend anymore.

Do I "expel the immoral brother" as 1 Corinthians 5 suggests or is there another route I need to take?

 

[Stickz]

I allowed myself to get hung up for a period of time in this kind of situation before, a couple of years ago. Advice from others was often something like, "Well, do you think ending a friendship is the Christian thing to do etc" and "Didn't Jesus hang out with sinners?" and things of that nature, but I eventually chose to end more than one friendship that was hurting my walk in the Lord--choosing the Lord and what I believe to be right over people who would claim to be saved, but apparently didn't feel that they should even attempt to try to govern themselves about anything sinful. They were not doing any of the real bad sins like killing, idolatry, or raping anyone so, I guess, they felt they were just being human, and humans have "sin-natures", right? Well, I happen to believe that a person who is truly walking with the Lord should not live a life of consistent, constant sin, so, like you seem to be saying, redeemed4life, their behaviors affected my walk in a negative way, and the only thing that I could see to do about it was end the relationships. Today, I feel fine about it too. There are other people out there you can befriend that are not living such confused lives. I believe them to be those lukewarm people that the BIble mentions.

As far as Jesus hanging out with sinners; can you imagine him hanging out with people who continued to do sinful things right in front of him? Let them control the conversation? I cannot. I believe he spoke to sinners and if they would not listen and try to make an effort to change, he realized that they were not ready, and moved on. I do not believe that his disciples continued to live sinfully either. Sure, they messed up from time to time ( Jesus didn't seem completely thrilled with Peter on numerous occasions ) but I do believe that they were avoiding sin most of the time. When you are truly in the presence of the Lord sin is not something that you think about so much. Have you ever noticed that? Do what you have to do to stay in His presence.

Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
What if the person refuses to be restored? or, as in my case, seems to believe that they do not need restoring?

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
Should we try to keep relationships with people who we know to be the enemy of God?

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

Jesus says:
"If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed'. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector." (Matthew 18:15-17)


There is a great article about this subject entitled "What means to treat someone as a gentile and a tax collector?"

The conclusion is this=

So, what does it mean to treat the ”brother” or the “sister” who were excluded from the Church as a Gentile or a tax collector? To not associate with them. But, remember, this attitude may be taken only after you yourself have confronted him, then, if he does not correct, take with you witnesses and if he does not correct this time, tell the Church about him. Only after being removed from the Church (and this means to be delivered to Satan) you should not have any dealings with him or her.

It is not easy to do so and is sad to see how people are afraid to confront the man who lives in sins, which they know, and if it comes to be confronted and expelled from the Church, all those who have been afraid to confront him continue to have dealings with him. If we care and we love those who call themselves “brothers” or “sisters” we will confront them according to the Scripture, because we love them and we want the salvation of their soul. God help us so.

 

[Stickz]

I have chosen to let nothing interfere with my walk with the Lord again. Nothing or no one is worth it.

 

[Travis]

Jesus says:
"If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed'. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector." (Matthew 18:15-17)


There is a great article about this subject entitled "What means to treat someone as a gentile and a tax collector?"

The conclusion is this=

So, what does it mean to treat the ”brother” or the “sister” who were excluded from the Church as a Gentile or a tax collector? To not associate with them. But, remember, this attitude may be taken only after you yourself have confronted him, then, if he does not correct, take with you witnesses and if he does not correct this time, tell the Church about him. Only after being removed from the Church (and this means to be delivered to Satan) you should not have any dealings with him or her.

It is not easy to do so and is sad to see how people are afraid to confront the man who lives in sins, which they know, and if it comes to be confronted and expelled from the Church, all those who have been afraid to confront him continue to have dealings with him. If we care and we love those who call themselves “brothers” or “sisters” we will confront them according to the Scripture, because we love them and we want the salvation of their soul. God help us so.

Sometimes people tend to think that treating a brother who is in complete error as a unbeliever and a tax collector means we should spit in their face and rub poo in their hair. I'm not so sure about that.

I think you should treat your friend as an unbeliever. Don't hang out with him just to have fun or anything, but whenever to do see him or have any interaction, treat him as if he is an unbeliever. Explain the most basic parts of the gospel to him as if he were a 6 year old. Be kind and courteous, but completely shame him by treating him as if he doesn't know the first thing about the gospel, because his actions are completely out of step with it. Honestly, he will probably not want to be around you too much if you do that, or he will repent. Either way you take care of the problem in a sense. Hopefully your friend repents.

Blessings!

Travis

 

[Stickz]

Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Do you think that "brother" in this verse is referring to a true believer, an unbeliever, or both?

 

[Chad]

Hi @redeemed4life

I had a friendly, kind of like that. Claiming to be a Christian means absolutely nothing. The fruits you bear is the proof of what one says he is.

Matthew 7:16
By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

I see pray for him, but don't hang out with him.

1 Corinthians 15:33
Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character.

You've been given excellent Scripture here by other members who responded. Those are certainly worthy to live by.

 

[Travis]

Matthew 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
Matthew 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Do you think that "brother" in this verse is referring to a true believer, an unbeliever, or both?

Idk whom this is directed towards 100%, but I'll throw out my opinion anyway!

I think it's directed toward anyone who professes to be a believer, whether they really are or not. So, both?

Blessings,

Travis

 

[Stickz]

Thanks, Travis, it was directed at no one in particular.

 

[rag4aCrown]

Hello. I've been debating for years and years whether I need to stop being friends with a friend who claims he is a Christian, but lives his life in spiritual darkness. He claims on and off that he is making spiritual breakthroughs with God in his faith, but his life does not show it at all. I have tried on numerous occasions to speak the truth with boldness and grace, but he always says I'm judging him. Whenever I am around him, his sin tempts me and brings me down. He has been recently been separated from his wife and does not want to reconcile with her. He is addicted to pornography and regularly jokes about sexual things. I've tried helping him seek help and healing with his addiction, but he thinks it is no big deal. He's recently confessed to me that he's been going to strip clubs, sex shops, and sleeping around with a divorced woman who is 12 years older then he is. He's choosing to live an unrepentant lifestyle and it is a very dangerous route to take. It seems at times, he thinks he can sin all the more, and God will just forgive him. I feel he is walking a dangerous path and "testing" God to see how far he can go and still get away with it. My heart breaks for him because he's throwing his life away to pursue his own desires and he's choosing to walk away from God.

I deeply care for him and want him to come back to God, however, I feel like I'm exhausting myself because he's refusing to listen. I have been tempted and have fallen into sin when we are around one another and it kills me. I do not want to give into sin and walk in spiritual darkness as he is. I care for him, but I feel like I cannot continue to be his friend and brother in Christ because he is deliberately walking in spiritual darkness and his sin constantly tempts me whenever I'm around him. I do not want to wreck my witness for Christ and turn him away from God even more if I choose to tell him I cannot be his friend anymore.

Do I "expel the immoral brother" as 1 Corinthians 5 suggests or is there another route I need to take?

the Word tells us to be with like minded people

 

[T Man]

Christ did not come for the clean or healthy, he came for the sick, we as Christians must learn to be Christ-like in all we do or we are just kidding ourselves. The idea that we are chosen, called by God to share in the ministry of Jesus Christ, is phenomenal -- almost unbelievable! Why would God want us to help Him? He could do a much better job, in far less time, doing it Himself. Why involve us? Because God knows the secret of being truly human and truly divine. Only when we participate in ministry, only when we give ourselves away to others, only when we do what God does, will we ever become the people He wants us to be.
It is a strange thing. Jesus said, "If you seek to save your life, you'll lose it, but if you lose your life for my sake, you'll find it." In other words, the cost for following Jesus is: EVERYTHING YOU HAVE. But if you give it all up for Him, you'll get it back in so many other ways.
If we could reduce all of what God wants us to do into one thing, it would be love. That is the priority. However, according to Jesus, this number one priority is not one thing at all, but three. We have to love God, our neighbor and ourselves. We can't do without any of the three.
Here's the real miracle of the resurrection: Jesus Christ defeated death. Do you know what that means? We don't have to be afraid of death anymore. In Christ we will live forever. We are free to be who God calls us to be, free to risk it all, because there is nothing that can ultimately hurt us. The worst thing that could happen is that we could die, and that's not so bad. Out of His death on the cross, Christ has given us life . . . and the freedom to live it to its fullest. I would say, knowing Christ has my back, be a light in the darkest place and all you have to do is know Christ is there with you, your focus should be Christ and your armor is faith that Christ will have your back. Todays sinners are tomorrows saints, I look at Paul what he did to the early Christians, then I look at Christ and what he did to Paul, from that I see what all can be in Christ. For us it maybe impossible, but in Christ, all things are possible.
Don't give up on your friend, I would say its why God put you there to start with. Focus on Jesus, and be the light in the dark place.
May God our Father grant you peace and joy, the strength to carry the cross and the wisdom to use the armor of God and fill your heart with His love for all. Amen