God is not Through with Israel

[stephen]

One of the reasons that there are so many theologians that get by by saying that God is through with the nation Israel is because God’s people are not acquainted with Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, and the Minor Prophets. The theme song of these prophets is, “God’s Not Through With The Nation Israel.” It sounds like a stuck record when you go through these prophecies.

-- J. Vernon McGee

 

[Brad Huber]

I get so sad when I hear christians treat jews worse than they do their non christian friends. If God gave up on us when we backslid, there woudnt be very many christians today. Yet they think God has already given up on the jews.

 

[NoHype]

I'm a Protestant Christian, a Gentile, and I don't think that kind of thing about the seed of Israel. There are many enemies of Christ planted in a lot of today's Christian Churches, especially the ones that teach their congregations that all the OT Scriptures are now dead history and that we need not study them anymore.

But I will not be totally consoling to the unbelieving Jews either, for many of them still hate Christ Jesus and us Christians, and actively work against Christ's Church, even to this day. Because of how the orthodox Jews worked against the Christian Church in Europe in past history, and thus many of them were expelled from Europe, and how that hatred of Judaism against Christ is still with us today, it means don't be deceived.

As a believer on Jesus Christ, both of Israel or of Gentile, ones of the things we must remember is that it is our Heavenly Father Who allows this emnity, and that it will continue all the way up to Christ's second coming. For sake of The Gospel going also to the Gentiles, they are our enemies (Rom.11).

 

[Brad Huber]

The two nations, Isreal and Judah were often finding fault with the other, looking to be more important than the other. God hated this attitude and wanted them to love each other like true brothers. Although we cannot call the traditional jew a "brother in Christ", we are still brothers with those jews who love God, and God wants us to love each other, not look to past faults and sins. Learn from the past but dont let it affect your love, for that was the main thing that attracted many to the faith in the early church, the love they showed.

 

[NoHype]

The two nations, Isreal and Judah were often finding fault with the other, looking to be more important than the other. God hated this attitude and wanted them to love each other like true brothers. Although we cannot call the traditional jew a "brother in Christ", we are still brothers with those jews who love God, and God wants us to love each other, not look to past faults and sins. Learn from the past but dont let it affect your love, for that was the main thing that attracted many to the faith in the early church, the love they showed.

Yes, I agree, we are to love our enemies also according to our Lord Jesus Christ. But He didn't mean for us to let our guard down, nor be deceived by them. So let's go a bit farther on that point.

In Titus 1, Apostle Paul even warns about brethren of the circumcision, to rebuke the vain talkers and deceivers among them...

Titus 1
7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; 9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers .
10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
11 Whose mouths must be stopped , who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said , The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

 

[Brad Huber]

He's talking about the Judaizers wanting to convert christians, even non jew christians, to followers of traditional Judaism, do you know of jews today trying to do that? I dont.

 

[NoHype]

He's talking about the Judaizers wanting to convert christians, even non jew christians, to followers of traditional Judaism, do you know of jews today trying to do that? I dont.

If you read verse 13 again carefully, you'll notice Paul was speaking that about Jewish brethren also that stray from the Faith...

Titus 1
13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

As for believing Jews not sound in the Faith, yes I know some, as they try to blend Judaism with their Christian Faith. I'm not speaking of Jewish customs which have no effect upon a belief in Christ Jesus either. But the false prophets that lead brethren with itching ears astray can come from any group of peoples, so I'm not just singling out those of Judah.

For a Biblical example, see Galatians where Apostle Paul rebuked Peter openly because when some of Peter's Jewish brethren from Jerusalem came for a visit, he separated himself from among the Gentiles as per the Jew's religion.

 

[Brad Huber]

He's talking about the Judaizers wanting to convert christians, even non jew christians, to followers of traditional Judaism, do you know of jews today trying to do that? I dont.

When I said converting christians, the jewish christian was implied. So yes, I understand. Perhaps you might be thinking about how nowdays when many christians want to obey most of the old testament law values, and being grafted onto the tree that was Isreal, enslave themselves to the law and trod afoot the grace given to them in Christ.

 

[NoHype]

When I said converting christians, the jewish christian was implied. So yes, I understand. Perhaps you might be thinking about how nowdays when many christians want to obey most of the old testament law values, and being grafted onto the tree that was Isreal, enslave themselves to the law and trod afoot the grace given to them in Christ.

No, I am not referring to Gentile Christians trying to latch onto a Jewish following of God's law. That statement should be plain enough.

For a Jewish believer on Christ Jesus, there is nothing wrong with their trying to keep to God's laws that our Lord Jesus did NOT nail to His cross. Our Lord Jesus did not nail all... of God's laws to His cross, I hope you understand.

Thing is, a Jewish believer should not practice the parts of God's laws dealing with what Christ nailed to His cross, like the sacrificial Levitical Old Covenant worship and those things associated with it. Nor is the Jewish convert to Christ Jesus to try and force others into a ritual keeping of feasts, sabbaths, etc., in order to be saved by our Lord Jesus. But there is nothing wrong with their keeping of sabbaths and such, just as long as they do not link it to Christ's Salvation which is by Faith, and not works of the law.

Our Lord Jesus did not nail all of God's laws to His cross, which is why Col.2 states what was, i.e., the 'ordinances', ritualistic things especially to do with requirements under the Old Covenant.

Not every law God gave through Moses is that Old Covenant. That's why many Christian Churches today still recognize the Ten Commandments, and God's law against thefts, murder, rape, incest, perjury, lying, witchcraft, etc. Obeying those things is CHRISTIAN Doctrine per Christ and His Apostles, not Jewish doctrine.

The Judaizers were trying to require Gentiles to get circumcised, etc., to be saved in Christ. Some of them still today think to try and lord over Gentile believers on Jesus Christ, and some of them think they only have the 'key' to Salvation just because God first gave them the covenants and promises. It's those kind of things they need to be rebuked in Christ for when they practice that upon others.

 

[B-A-C]

The Judaizers were trying to require Gentiles to get circumcised, etc., to be saved in Christ. Some of them still today think to try and lord over Gentile believers on Jesus Christ, and some of them think they only have the 'key' to Salvation just because God first gave them the covenants and promises. It's those kind of things they need to be rebuked in Christ for when they practice that upon others.

Exactly.
The 10 commandments were a part of the law, but they by themselves were not "THE LAW".
The law had much more, the Levitical priesthood, high-priests, ephods, phalactories, stoning people,
the Holy of Holies, the Lampstand, the Holy Bread, wool and hyssop, an eye for an eye, nearly 600 other commandments,
animal sacrifices for sin, blood for passover, confession of sins to human priests, and let's not forget circumcision.

1 Cor 7:19; Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

 

[NoHype]

Exactly.
The 10 commandments were a part of the law, but they by themselves were not "THE LAW".
The law had much more, the Levitical priesthood, high-priests, ephods, phalactories, stoning people,
the Holy of Holies, the Lampstand, the Holy Bread, wool and hyssop, an eye for an eye, nearly 600 other commandments,
animal sacrifices for sin, blood for passover, confession of sins to human priests, and let's not forget circumcision.

1 Cor 7:19; Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

I don't want to drag out here what all God's law is about, but the Ten Commandments are a part of His law. Part of it deals with God's laws in the spiritual, i.e., our relationship with Him, and the other part deals with His laws as to how we are to be with others (i.e., civil).

The 'ordinances' in the law specifically dealt with the things you mention in relation to the Old Covenant, which our Lord Jesus nailed to His cross. But did He nail all of God's law to His cross? No.

Two important things Apostle Paul taught regarding our relation to God's law per the New Covenant; one is that we are not saved by works of the law, but only by His grace through Faith on Him and His Son. The other thing is that our Lord Jesus did not nail all of God's law to His cross, but only the portions dealing with the Old Covenant, and also that if... we walk by The Spirit, then we are not subject to God's law, meaning we will not be breaking them, because doing good by walking by The Spirit there is no law against (Gal.5). Thus the law was made for the unrighteous, not the righteous, which Paul also said.

 

[tulsa 2011]

God is not through with Israel because Israel is His elect people. What many don't get is that God changed Israel when the Messenger of the Covenant of Malachi 3: 1-3 appeared and when he finished his mission on the Cross. And many do not understand the important role of the remnant in that transformation of Old Covenant Israel. The multitude of Old Covenant Israel who rejected Christ were cut off (Romans 11: 17-20), and the remnant of Old Covenant Israel who accepted Christ (Romans 11: 1-5) and became the elect fulfilled the promise of that transformation of Israel in II Kings 21: 13, Isaiah 29: 16 and Jeremiah 18: 1-6.

And Hosea 2: 23 is part of that promise. Hosea 2: 23 says a people who were not God's people will become his people. Hosea 2: 23 was fulfilled in Ephesians 2: 11: 20. "That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel...But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ." Ephesians 2: 12-13. Nigh means close. Those of the non-Jews who accepted Christ were made close by his blood. Close to what? To Israel, but not Old Covenant Israel. The Bible does not explain everything in very explicit detail over and over. This makes it possible for men to insert their own doctrines claiming their doctrines are from God.

 

[Taylor Barrett]

The two nations, Isreal and Judah were often finding fault with the other, looking to be more important than the other. God hated this attitude and wanted them to love each other like true brothers. Although we cannot call the traditional jew a "brother in Christ", we are still brothers with those jews who love God, and God wants us to love each other, not look to past faults and sins. Learn from the past but dont let it affect your love, for that was the main thing that attracted many to the faith in the early church, the love they showed.

I do not think that we are brothers with Jews who do not believe in Christ. I do not think that "loving God" is enough to be adopted into sonship. Or else, what good was Christ's crucifixion? The Bible is fairly clear about this... faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and SAVIOR is what merits adoption as sonship.

In fact I would almost even go so far as saying that Jews who reject Christ as their Savior are in even worse shape than the non-Jew unbeliever. We know how hard God comes down on Israel when they do not follow His commands. He comes down much much harder on Israel than he does on any other people.

 

[Brad Huber]

I do not think that we are brothers with Jews who do not believe in Christ. I do not think that "loving God" is enough to be adopted into sonship. Or else, what good was Christ's crucifixion? The Bible is fairly clear about this... faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and SAVIOR is what merits adoption as sonship.

In fact I would almost even go so far as saying that Jews who reject Christ as their Savior are in even worse shape than the non-Jew unbeliever. We know how hard God comes down on Israel when they do not follow His commands. He comes down much much harder on Israel than he does on any other people.

I was not talking about legalistic theologically correct defintions of brothers in faith according to christian tradition. How Pharisaical of you to see things from the legalistic point of view. I look forward to God one day showing you the truth seen from a loving heart.

 

[Taylor Barrett]

I was not talking about legalistic theologically correct defintions of brothers in faith according to christian tradition. How Pharisaical of you to see things from the legalistic point of view. I look forward to God one day showing you the truth seen from a loving heart.

The very core doctrine of Christianity is that Jesus Christ is God and the only way to Heaven is through Faith in Him.

"I am the way, the truth, and the life. NO ONE comes to the Father except by me"

"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Be careful that you do not spread the idea that "loving God" is enough for salvation... the blood of people will be on your own hands.

"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it."

Many people "love God". Muslims, Jews, and all sorts of people who have invented their own conception of God. They LOVE GOD. But you must love the TRUE God, who is Jesus Christ Lord and Savior. If you do not love the correct, true God, then you dont love God at all.

 

[Brad Huber]

^I never said there were other ways. If you put false words in my mouth again to win some foolish point that only exists in your own mind, I shall ignore you. I think you may be unwilling to see the truth here, so I let you rest in your own digestive juices.

 

[Taylor Barrett]

Why insult me, because The Word of God offends you?

It is not easy, accepting that most our loved ones and the vast majority of everyone who has ever lived will wind up destroyed in the fires of Hell.

But if we are to be sincere in our faith, true to The Bible, and real disciples of Christ then we must accept His words as truth and not look to our own evil hearts for answers.