Going to Heaven a Doctrine of Mystery Babylon, Mother of Harlots

[james1523]

The Bible says there will be a new heaven and new earth (Rev 21:1).

If people go to Heaven when they die, why would God create a new earth? Does this mean heaven will be full and earth will be empty?

Psalm 115:16 says "The highest heavens belong to the LORD, but the earth he has given to mankind."

Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Today, the majority of Christianity are influenced by "spiritual Babylon", because they hold to the false doctrine that they go to a place called Heaven when they die. "And upon her forehead" indicates that this is a matter of the mind, knowledge or doctrine.
Babylon means confusion, a mixture of the things of God with the things of the world.
Babylon means a degraded and confused spirituality that does not know or understand the Word of God, and resorts to fables, myths, legends.
One such myth is the idea of going to a place called Heaven.
This is a myth held to by the Catholic church but never corrected by the reformation or Protestant denominations, despite them seeing the Catholic errors with salvation by works, purgatory and indulgences. "Going to Heaven when we die" is today still a myth taught by bible colleges and seminaries, preached by theologically-trained pastors from church pulpits, written in evangelism tracts, sung in worship songs on Sunday, and passed down from parent to child, grandparent to grandchildren.

If we bother to read the Bible, the Bible (Rev 21) says that mankind's home is the New Jerusalem, not Heaven. The apostles sought a heavenly city, not a place called Heaven (Heb 13:14, Gal 4:26).

There is no where in the Bible that says our home is in a place called Heaven when we die. Us being seated with Christ in the heavens (Eph 2:6) refers to our heavenly and divine likeness which we have in our spirit/soul (if we are born again), and will have completely, after transformation/glorification of our bodies, not a place called Heaven. God never created Heaven for mankind, that is His home. God created the Earth for mankind (Psalm 115:16). The place where mankind will dwell for eternity is called the New Jerusalem, which the Bible clearly says will be on or hovering above the Earth:

Revelation

21 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John,saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.


Fundamentally then, it should not be our goal to enter Heaven, as is the goal of the majority of Christianity today, but to enter a heavenly city on the Earth, called New Jerusalem which is our mother (Gal 4:26).

 

[DHC]

Hello James.

Matthew 5
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5
10 Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5
12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great

Matthew 5
19 ... shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven

Enough verses for now James, how do you read these verses?

 

[james1523]

Hello James.

Matthew 5
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5
10 Blessed are those who have been persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5
12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great

Matthew 5
19 ... shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven

Enough verses for now James, how do you read these verses?

Kingdom of Heaven. Which is or is in the New Jerusalem, the Heavenly city, which comes down to Earth. How do you read Psalm 115:16, Rev 21:1-3, Gal 4:26, Heb 13:14 ?

 

[james1523]

I guess we can believe the stories, the myths, legends, peoples after death experiences, and Catholic church doctrine , or we can believe what the Bible says (Rev 21:1-3).
The difference between Heaven and New Jerusalem is the difference between Paris and France, or London and England. You can go to France but never go to Paris. Not many Christians say they will go to the New Jersualem, only to Heaven, this is because they are deceived by mystery Babylon. Even gotquestions.org has an article on "What is the New Jerusalem" and has it right -it's a city on Earth, it is the city Abraham looked for by faith (Heb 11:10). Abraham was not seeking Heaven, neither was the apostles, and Jesus never said we go to heaven (the thief on the cross was going to Paradise, place of the dead), they all knew they were going to a city.

 

[TC4JC]

Heaven and Paradise are the same place . See 2Cor. 12:1-4; Rev2:7; Rev. 22:14.

 

[Hekuran]

Heaven and Paradise are the same place . See 2Cor. 12:1-4; Rev2:7; Rev. 22:14.

I think the best way to make sense of all the various Bible passages is this: Paradise is the resting place before the resurrection. So the goal of our hope is glorified resurrected bodies - we will finally be new creations in the new creation.

I think this is in accord with everything in the key passages - 1 Corinthians 15 and Romans 8.

The descriptions details and dimensions of New Jerusalem in the Bible may well be symbolic, but I am convinced that it will be a real physical place.

 

[james1523]

Paradise and the New Jerusalem

Paradise of God in Revelation is the New Jerusalem and this Paradise is on new earth, and everyone will be in their physical bodies at this time (post-resurrection). In contrast, Paradise (where the thief on the cross and Jesus went after they died) is the good side of Hades (place of the dead), otherwise known as Abraham's Bosom, where departed souls go.

In Genesis at the start of the Bible is the Garden of Eden, in Revelation at the end of the Bible is the New Jerusalem. Both were/are the intended pleasant dwelling places of mankind. The New Jerusalem is the Paradise of God, the greater "Garden of Eden". We could think about the New Jerusalem as an enlarged, beautified and fortified (with walls) Garden of Eden. The significance is that the Garden of Eden was a place without any walls, where satan could roam freely (to deceive man). However the New Jerusalem with its fortified walls and gates, will be stronger and will have no presence of evil at all.

Revelation 2:7 mentions the tree of life and this is in the Paradise of God which is the New Jerusalem.
Rev 22:14 is another verse that shows entrance to a city, not to heaven. The commonly known "pearly gates of heaven" is not for heaven at all but for the city New Jerusalem. Revelation 22:14 also says that the tree of life will be in or with the city.

In symbols, the tree of life is Christ who was crucified on a tree (wood), eating the tree of life is to eat the crucified Christ's body and blood for eternal life (John 6:53). The New Jerusalem is symbolic for the Church, and this can be seen if we compare the verse which says the New Jerusalem is like a bride prepared for her husband (Rev 21:2), and the Church is also the bride of Christ (2 Corinthians 11:2). Therefore the New Jerusalem is or within it is the Church, prepared for her husband Christ.
The importance of seeing that we go to the New Jerusalem and not to Heaven is also so that we may see the symbols, that we go to Christ's body, the Church, our mother, and the person Christ as the Head, who gives us eternal life, and not merely to a place, or a tree, or a rock etc.
True lovers of Christ will want to go and see Christ regardless of where the place is that he may be found. They will also want to dwell with all the saints, the church (Psalm 133:1).
A shame for those that desire to see a physical place, or a physical mansion or building more than meeting the Lord and all His Saints - places and buildings are not as pleasurable as the Lord and the Saints. The purpose for desiring to be with Christ and the Saints is for pleasure, as God created mankind, the Garden of Eden, and New Jerusalem for pleasure. It is pagans, not Christians, who visit and worship places, trees, rocks, etc. For the Christian our worship is person-centric and not place or thing-centric (John 4:24). Adopted and "Christianized" pagan ideas and practices is another characteristic of mystery Babylon.

 

[Darian]

Mark 13:27
And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Revelation 6:9
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

 

[NoHype]

Gen.6:3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

"for that he also is flesh"???

If we also are flesh, then what else are we? God also created us with a spirit. We are not... flesh only! Our spirit with soul does not perish when our flesh dies.

Nor... will we have NEW flesh bodies in God's future kingdom!

I do get a little tired of men's 'dead in the ground' doctrines as if our flesh body was the real part of us.

Even with our Lord Jesus' Resurrection Body, if it truly were of our flesh order of existence, then it would mean the existence of the Heavenly would be a lie.

There are TWO dimensions of existence written of in God's Word. One is this earthly material dimension we live in, and the other is the Heavenly dimension of Spirit, for God is a Spirit (John 4).

BOTH dimensions are 'real'. And per Hebrews 11:3...

Heb.11
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

... the Heavenly dimension is actually the more REAL, since that verse shows us the things seen, like material matter of this earthly dimension, were not made of things which do appear. What does that mean exactly? It means material matter was made of something NOT seen, something other than matter itself, i.e., The Invisible God in the Heavenly.

Thus the earth is God's footstool as written; it is not Him, and even our spirit He gave us is from Him and not from earthly matter!

Eccl.12
5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:

6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.


This is why Jesus told the malefactor who believed on Him that was crucified with Him, that he would be with Him in 'Paradise' that day. (It's interesting to note that the Greek Septuagint OT which the early Christians used has the name Paradise in the Greek put for Eden in Genesis).

The one in 2 Cor.12 that Apostle Paul said was "caught up" to Paradise, to the third Heaven, just what was caught up, and where was that?

In Isaiah 6, when Isaiah saw The LORD upon His throne in Heaven and Isaiah thought he had died, just what part of his being experienced that vision, his flesh, or his spirit?

In Genesis 18 & 19, when angels manifested on earth to Abraham, and then to Lot and his family in Sodom and Gomorrah, were those angels in flesh bodies, since they did eat what was prepared for them, and the sodomites wanted to have sex with them?

When all these things are put together in the mind per God's Word, we are to understand those two dimensions of existence, how they differ, and how they are similar. The Israelites in the wilderness under Moses ate 'manna' from Heaven, and the angels in Genesis 18-19 ate man's food. What goes on then?

Since God as a Spirit created material matter, while being distinct from that matter, don't you think He is able to cause one's spirit to operate in either dimension, like those angels did? When Apostle John bowed by mistake to an angel in Rev.19 and the angel said not to bow because he was one of John's brethren who have the testimony of Jesus, how similar to the two dimensions is that? At the end of the Book of John, when our Lord Jesus after His Resurrection had fish cooking and bread on the seashore for His Apostles that were out fishing, and signaled for them to come in and eat, how similar is that between the two dimensions?

Fear... of the existence of that other dimension is not the way to understand these things written in God's Word. Our Heavenly Father would not have put these kind of comparisons in His Word if He had not wanted us to understand it. Flesh is born of flesh, and spirit is born of The Spirit. They are two distinct things, but God is able to join their operations close together, with which how He made us is a primary example. This is why He said we must worship Him in spirit, and in truth, not by our flesh. The history of pagan idolatry is full of examples of those who thought to worship they know not what according to the flesh. We as believers on The Father and His Son are not to follow that old path of trying to exalt our flesh above what it is, nothing but earthly matter derived from the dust of the earth.