groom taking brides last name

[dragokatzov]

well, the title stands for its self. i am probably one of the more liberal members of this forum, and this has crossed my mind

why?

my father has been a dead beat. not someone who i aspire to be at all. i am the only male in my family with my last name as well. if my future bride asked me to take her last name, i really would not have a problem with that.
what do you folks think?

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

I old testament times this would have got you kicked out of the synagogue and ostracized for certain.It probably would have been considered as dishonoring your fathers seed.The commandment reads that we are to honor our father and our mother.
In this age of grace however we are to operate as new creatures born from above and our father and mother are NOT our real parents.

Jesus fulfills the law of loving God and honoring father and mother by telling us not to consider our earthly heritage our real heritage.
Matthew 23:9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

I suppose if I was very impressed by my brides family I might consider taking their family name.It could be considered kind of a kingdom of heaven thing.Jesus was the seed of the woman spoken of in Genesis.
I also wouldn't see anything wrong in changing your name to reflect something more appropriate.If I felt I was doing it to hurt my earthly parent then I would also feel I am no better than those I want to separate myself from.I think it would come down to matters of the heart.

 

[rizen1]

Grace and Peace

Firstly drop the silly label " liberal " it's worldly and it sets you up to live up to your label. We as children of God wear one label that can be, christian, disciple of Jesus Christ or child of God. When we use labels it's like giving ourselves a free pass to think a certain way or do certain things in order to prevent others from asking us deep questions behind our motives. So please drop that liberal. As a christian ALL your principles must stem from biblical principles and not worldly systems. I don't support conservative,liberal etc...it's all hogwash and gibberish in the ears of our heavenly father. You are his child and there's no need to brand oneself after these labels to excuse behavior.

well, the title stands for its self. i am probably one of the more liberal members of this forum, and this has crossed my mind

Therefore, come out from among unbelievers, and separate yourselves from them, says the LORD. Don't touch their filthy things, and I will welcome you. 2 corinthians 6:7

why?

my father has been a dead beat. not someone who i aspire to be at all. i am the only male in my family with my last name as well. if my future bride asked me to take her last name, i really would not have a problem with that.
what do you folks think?

If you want the absolute truth, I'll tell you what God showed me. On the first day of this thread I wanted to respond, but I didn't want to speak from my own knowledge or opinion. Ten days later I was reading proverbs 20 when I came to this verse.

20 Whoever curses his father or his mother,
His lamp will be put out in deep darkness.

Immediately I though of your question and got the answer. You abandoning your last name or forfeiting your inheritance ( last name ) shows 4 things.

1. You're not honoring your parent
2. Rebellion
3. Unforgiveness
4. Lack of Love

1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise: 3 “that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.”[a] ephesians 6:1-3

“You shall each revere your mother and father, and you shall keep my sabbaths: I am the LORD your God.”
(Leviticus 19:3 NRSV)

“Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God commanded you, so that your days may be long and that it may go well with you in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.”
(Deuteronomy 5:16 NRSV)

Not keeping the last name of your father, grandfather , great grandfather and all the other fathers in your lineage is dishonoring all of them. Bible digging time.
Lets look at King Saul and Jonathan's father son relationship.

1 Samuel 20:24-34 Saul is enraged when he learns of David’s absence.

Then David hid in the field. And when the New Moon had come, the king sat down to eat the feast. Now the king sat on his seat, as at other times, on a seat by the wall. And Jonathan arose, and Abner sat by Saul’s side, but David’s place was empty. Nevertheless Saul did not say anything that day, for he thought, “Something has happened to him; he is unclean, surely he is unclean.” And it happened the next day, the second day of the month, that David’s place was empty. And Saul said to Jonathan his son, “Why has the son of Jesse not come to eat, either yesterday or today?” So Jonathan answered Saul, “David earnestly asked permission of me to go to Bethlehem. And he said, ‘Please let me go, for our family has a sacrifice in the city, and my brother has commanded me to be there. And now, if I have found favor in your eyes, please let me get away and see my brothers.’ Therefore he has not come to the king’s table.” Then Saul’s anger was aroused against Jonathan, and he said to him, “You son of a perverse, rebellious woman! Do I not know that you have chosen the son of Jesse to your own shame and to the shame of your mother’s nakedness? For as long as the son of Jesse lives on the earth, you shall not be established, nor your kingdom. Now therefore, send and bring him to me, for he shall surely die.” And Jonathan answered Saul his father, and said to him, “Why should he be killed? What has he done?” Then Saul cast a spear at him to kill him, by which Jonathan knew that it was determined by his father to kill David. So Jonathan arose from the table in fierce anger, and ate no food the second day of the month, for he was grieved for David, because his father had treated him shamefully.

David and Jonathan were best friends and Jonathan loved David and knew God was with David. His friendship was dishonoring in the eyes of his father whom the spirit of God was no longer with. Having to choose between his best friend and father. His loyalty to David brought dishonor to his father. Why should Jonathan care what his father thinks? His father's heart was wicked, he no longer had God in his heart, he wanted to kill an innocent man (His best friend )because of pride and selfishness. Saul at one point even ordered Jonathan to be killed for eating honey on the day of battle which was against customs.

What did Jonathan do in the end ? How can he honor such a man, the man he calls father ?

Well...when we read the whole story Jonathan honored his father till the end, he stood at his side and fought and died for him. What would be the outcome of this story had he not been faithful to his father ? Why didn't he abandon the customs and traditions to break associations from his father ? Jonathan honored his father, was not rebellious, he held nothing against his father and loved him as scriptures commanded.

my father has been a dead beat. not someone who i aspire to be at all. i am the only male in my family with my last name as well. if my future bride asked me to take her last name, i really would not have a problem with that.
what do you folks think?

You not keeping your father's last name shows your rebellion towards him and anything that reminds you of him.

Rebellion..: opposition to one in authority or dominance
For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king. 1Samuel 15:23

Rebellion described here as witchcraft.
You are resentful towards your father and have not forgiven him for his wrongs.

Mark 11:25-26) 25 Whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone; so that your Father, who is in heaven, may also forgive you your transgressions. 26 But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father in heaven forgive your transgressions.

Your act of not keeping his last name shows you're still in pain and hold him accountable for that pain. This is only a bandage to cover up the pain and his existence. You must forgive him. Unforgiveness shows a lack of true love.

John 15:12, Jesus commands us to love one another, as He has loved us. True love doesn't hold bitterness or unforgiveness against that person. If we are bitter or hold unforgiveness against somebody, then we don't love them as Christ loved us. If we don't keep Jesus' commandments, then it proves we don't love Him.

These labels provide boxes for people to place themselves in to avoid questions and reasons for their actions. Stating you're liberal thinking would put the common person in a position to say " I'm not surprise, he did say he's liberal in thinking and thats a liberal thing to do. " It prevents deep discussions, it prevents you from expressing how you truly feel and your reasons and motives. You're not a liberal, your a christian with free will, who loves to think beyond what is common and acceptable.

I could answer your questions as 3 people.

1. As a Conservative, respond back with some ignorant remark not caring to look behind the label and see you as human. I'll judge you according how people under that label live and base my answer on that.

2. As a fellow liberal free thinker and quote, Do what thou Wilt shall be the whole of the Law by Aleister Crowley.

3. As a child of God, your sister in christ and see you beyond the label. Not judging you based on a liberal stereotype but asking God's Holy Spirit to give me wisdom, to love you and understand you. Using biblical principles and not opinions of my own to be seen as wise or holier than thou.

Choose the label and answer you like, but most importantly beyond what feels good to you ask God if he is pleased.

God bless you in your decision.

1 Corinthians 13:4-7
New King James Version (NKJV)
4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Was Jesus the son of God or was he the son of Joseph and Mary?

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brothers, and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

I don't believe Jesus is condoning hatred toward anyone but is contrasting an earthly kingdom mindset against a heavenly(came down from heaven)kingdom mindset.

Obviously to change your name out of spite would be wrong due to the spite,not the name change.

 

[dragokatzov]

I don't think I quite got my point across. I would not be changing my name out of spite. I would be changing my name becasue i am not concerned about it. My last name being Kennedy, there are a lot more Kennedys out there. But the whole "it was my fathers name, and his fathers name, and so on and so on" thing, just doesn't mean anything to me. I truly wish my father the best, but having a relationship with him is pointless to say the least. I have tried for many many years. If my bride wanted to take my name, i'd be fine with that too.

 

[dannibear]

So if changing our name is rebellion against our parents,
then what about a bride? It is mostly the bride that changes
her name to her husband's. Is that rebellion too?
Should any married couple just keep their old names then?

 

[sojourn4Christ]

one flesh

God called both Adam and Eve, "Adam". (Genesis 5:2). This is the Law of coverture, and the reason why women take their husbands’ name. They are considered "one flesh" (Matthew 19:5-6, Mark.10:8, Ephesians 5:31).

 

[dannibear]

But He called them humankind, not Adam.
I don't see where the Bible specifically states
that the woman must take his last name,
I only see where it is a cultural thing. I also see it
as making legal matters easier, such as traveling
with the family overseas, getting legal documents, etc.

 

[sojourn4Christ]

Genesis 5:2:

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. KJV

I also see it
as making legal matters easier, such as traveling
with the family overseas, getting legal documents, etc.

Those items are of a different kingdom. Of which kingdom do you belong?

 

[dannibear]

Genesis 5:2:

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. KJV

Those items are of a different kingdom. Of which kingdom do you belong?

So...I point out a fact about the simplicity of
the name change in a real life situation and
I am questioned about what kingdom I belong to?
I find it an unnecessary comment that could
be taken as an offense to someone.

But I do see it now, I looked it up in several Bible versions
and in a Bible study.

 

[gdemoss]

To understand the complexity of the nature of this question one must first know that there is entirely no difference between the heavenly and the earthly as one is a symbol of the other.

We are talking about right and wrong here. Everyone can decide for themselves independent of God what is right or wrong. Of course if they do this then they will one day have to stand before God and give an account as to why they didn't want his opinion.

Does it matter to God if the bride takes the grooms name or the groom the bride or even if they keep there own names and do no exchange?

I believe it does. God set the standard already. In the OT he wrote out 10 commandments. One of which is, thou shalt not take the Lords name in vain. This speaks of the marriage of God and Israel. They take his name. In the NT, we are married to Christ and are now called 'Christians'. We have taken on the grooms name.

This is important to understand because Satan's ways are always a perversion of Gods and usually the exact opposite. So, if you want to take your chances deciding for yourself what is right and wrong, beware of the eternal consequences. Seek God and his righteousness.

Gary

 

[sojourn4Christ]

the most subtil beast

...I am questioned about what kingdom I belong to?
I find it an unnecessary comment that could
be taken as an offense to someone.

No offense was intended, yet the question is completely germaine. No man can serve two masters (Mat 6:24; Luke 16:13). Who do you look to for the authority to do the things you do, such as making "legal matters easier, traveling with the family overseas, getting legal documents, etc."???

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. (Pro 14:12; 16:25)

But I do see it now, I looked it up in several Bible versions
and in a Bible study.

Are you aware that every one of those bible "per"-versions (and studies) is copyrighted, which means some man claims ownership of it? If you want to quote more than 200 words, you'll need to get that copyright holder's permission in writing. Conversely, no one can copyright The Word of God, i.e. The Holy Bible, i.e. the King James Version. The point is, if you've been misled on what the true word of God is, then perhaps you've also been misled on the perceived "need" for making "legal matters easier, such as traveling with the family overseas, getting legal documents, etc."

 

[gdemoss]

Quote:
...I am questioned about what kingdom I belong to?
I find it an unnecessary comment that could
be taken as an offense to someone.

No offense was intended, yet the question is completely germaine. No man can serve two masters (Mat 6:24; Luke 16:13). Who do you look to for the authority to do the things you do, such as making "legal matters easier, traveling with the family overseas, getting legal documents, etc."???

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. (Pro 14:12; 16:25)

Quote:
But I do see it now, I looked it up in several Bible versions
and in a Bible study.

Are you aware that every one of those bible "per"-versions (and studies) is copyrighted, which means some man claims ownership of it? If you want to quote more than 200 words, you'll need to get that copyright holder's permission in writing. Conversely, no one can copyright The Word of God, i.e. The Holy Bible, i.e. the King James Version. The point is, if you've been misled on what the true word of God is, then perhaps you've also been misled on the perceived "need" for making "legal matters easier, such as traveling with the family overseas, getting legal documents, etc."

Reproduced without small font for others who are blind like me.

 

[dannibear]

No offense was intended, yet the question is completely germaine. No man can serve two masters (Mat 6:24; Luke 16:13). Who do you look to for the authority to do the things you do, such as making "legal matters easier, traveling with the family overseas, getting legal documents, etc."???

How about this: I don't live with my parents. I live with my grandpa.
Now with that said, anytime I needed a copy of my birth certificate, or needed
to get my license or my military ID renewed, my sister and I had to jump through
hoops of fire to get any of those things that people who live with their
parents or who don't have a broken family could have gotten with much less
hassle. Just because I state that fact ^^^^^^ Doesn't mean I ' try to serve two masters.'
So I get my military ID. I don't have Jesus in mind? I try to obtain my birth
certificate to get my license to drive to work. I don't have Jesus in mind?


There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. (Pro 14:12; 16:25)Are you aware that every one of those bible "per"-versions (and studies) is copyrighted, which means some man claims ownership of it? If you want to quote more than 200 words, you'll need to get that copyright holder's permission in writing. Conversely, no one can copyright The Word of God, i.e. The Holy Bible, i.e. the King James Version. The point is, if you've been misled on what the true word of God is, then perhaps you've also been misled on the perceived "need" for making "legal matters easier, such as traveling with the family overseas, getting legal documents, etc."

And you don't know me either. I am sorry, but what you say
comes off quite offensive to me, since I have lived in a
situation for over 6 years where I can't even go to the doctor
with my aunt without a note, my grandpa's ID, her ID, and
birth certificate. My grandpa can't go because he has to be on oxygen. I have not whatsoever been 'misled'. I know for a fact
that it would be easier, after sitting in the doctor's office,
and then being told, "We don't have such and such on file, we
can't help you, you will need to go to the hospital." Just because
I state what I know is true about name changing making a simple
request for a legal document harder, doesn't mean I don't
know the the 'true word of God' is.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

This is important to understand because Satan's ways are always a perversion of Gods and usually the exact opposite. So, if you want to take your chances deciding for yourself what is right and wrong, beware of the eternal consequences. Seek God and his righteousness.

The oldest surnames recorded anywhere in Europe can be found in Irish historical records dating back to the year 916 so I doubt that it was ever an old or new testament concept.
Should we add another law(burden) that comes man's tradition and then insinuate that anyone who disagrees is perverting God's ways?
Break the yoke man.

 

[dannibear]

The oldest surnames recorded anywhere in Europe can be found in Irish historical records dating back to the year 916 so I doubt that it was ever an old or new testament concept.
Should we add another law(burden) that comes man's tradition and then insinuate that anyone who disagrees is perverting God's ways?
Break the yoke man.

Amen.
People should be more concerned about the well being of a
marriage not a last name.

 

[gdemoss]

The oldest surnames recorded anywhere in Europe can be found in Irish historical records dating back to the year 916 so I doubt that it was ever an old or new testament concept.
Should we add another law(burden) that comes man's tradition and then insinuate that anyone who disagrees is perverting God's ways?
Break the yoke man.

Choose your yoke wisely but you must wear a yoke.

 

[dannibear]

Reproduced without small font for others who are blind like me.

Just noticed this haha. I actually copied the font and
made it bigger in Microsoft word. I know I should wear
sunglasses but unless they are in the car, I forget them.
Almost 18 and already have poorer eyesight than most my age.
Darn.

 

[gdemoss]

Just noticed this haha. I actually copied the font and
made it bigger in Microsoft word. I know I should wear
sunglasses but unless they are in the car, I forget them.
Almost 18 and already have poorer eyesight than most my age.
Darn.

Please bear with me danni, but I want to cause you to think for a moment with me. I mean no accusation or finger pointing but merely to stir up your pure mind. My motive is pure and simple "edification" building one another up in our most Holy Faith.

Why we choose to do things is the most important factor we will ever consider in our lives. It includes the smallest details to the largest decisions we will ever make.

Our motives.

A question: Why did we choose the font that we did?

Was it:

• based upon our personl attraction to it as it best represents our personality
• chosen for the benefit of those who must read it.
• both
• other

What is the purpose of a font?

How would Jesus choose his own font?

Why we do what we do ultimately is the ultimate judgement we will receive. Not so much 'what' we do but 'why'. There are several ways we can choose.

• What is right in our own eyes.
• What is right in Gods eyes.
• What is right in the eyes of someone we trust.

Considering that we 'became like God' in the Garden of Eden and suddenly obtained a new set of 'eyes' instead of relying on him for understanding the eyes of 'our' understanding have been opened. This was not a good thing. Our struggle in life is to see things Gods way no matter how small they may seem or how huge. Best we seek him for what is best in every situation.

What do you think?

Gary

 

[dannibear]

A question: Why did we choose the font that we did?

I wanted to be able to pick out my post quickly and
easily when in a discussion. Everyone's font tends to
look the same. It is also easier when I respond to
a quote someone made like I am now to distinguish my
answer from someone else. Organization. I do so in the chat room
too, by making my font a different color so as not to be
confused with someone else.

What is the purpose of a font?

Certain situations call for an appropriate font. Like my
English research papers. They want something plain like
Ariel font and nothing too cursive to the point where they
can't read it.

How would Jesus choose his own font?

I suppose however his handwriting developed is the font
in which he used. Then again, He is the example of not
worrying about unimportant things. If He told Martha about
not getting frustrated over dinner, then worrying about a
font shouldn't be a tedious frustrating task to us.

Our struggle in life is to see things Gods way no
matter how small they may seem or how huge.
Best we seek him for what is best in every situation.

Reminds me something I heard somewhere. A singer perhaps.
Someone who said I shall not worry until my problems
have been put in your hands. Something like that.