Has the BIBLE been Corrupted Over Time? 8-3-2024

[MedicBravo]

 

[Rockerduck]

The King James bible hasn't changed since 1769. All the modern bibles have updated themselves on "new" manuscripts Well, actually just 2. The Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus. These two codex's caused all modern bibles to leave verses out that are in the King James Bible. Lot's more than this, but that is the gist of it.

 

[B-A-C]

Bible commentary.

It;s a well known fact, that many Bible passages have parenthesis in them. John 7:50; (KJV) Nicodemus saith unto them, (he that came to Jesus by night, being one of them,) (MKJV) Nicodemus said to them, (he who came to Jesus by night, being one of them), (NAS77) Nicodemus *said to them (he...

www.talkjesus.com

 

[Rhema]

The King James bible hasn't changed since 1769. All the modern bibles have updated themselves on "new" manuscripts Well, actually just 2. The Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus. These two codex's caused all modern bibles to leave verses out that are in the King James Bible. Lot's more than this, but that is the gist of it.

So your answer is yes? The Bible has been Corrupted Over Time?

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

I like where he says:

"If someone changes their story over time there's a good reason to believe they're not telling the truth."​

Does he even realize that the three accounts of Paul's "Damascus encounter" are all different?

A bit of wonderful irony in the universe.

Rhema

PS: @MedicBravo, was there a specific purpose behind posting this video? I mean, even Jeremiah testified that the scribes altered the Torah.

How can you say, "We are wise, and the TORAH of the LORD is with us," when, in fact, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie?​

(Jeremiah 8:8 NRSV~)​

 

[Rockerduck]

So your answer is yes? The Bible has been Corrupted Over Time?

Rhema

Only the Modern bibles, not the King James bible.. Gender neutral language has been added to modern translations. There has been an explosion of new bibles in the last fifty years. All modern bibles have removed and changed meaning of passages, and all modern bibles are copywrited and make big money. The money incentive allows for much mischief.

 

[Rhema]

@MedicBravo

This is just bizarre...

If one took out every other verse in the New Testament texts, it would read as if an insane person wrote it.

And this guy is trying to say that the overall narritive would not change?

Don't know who he is, and at this point, I'm not sure I want to. He may think he thinks well, but he really doesn't.

Obviously it's a polemic against Ehrman, but while Ehrman makes a number of mistakes of logic in his own right, there are valid concerns Ehrman raises that the Church really needs to address.

Rhema

 

[Rockerduck]

I'm not King James only. I'm a core King James bible person. All translations are compared to the King James bible for agreement. For instance, the 1971 Living bible paraphrase agreed with King James bible, The 1977 NASB agreed with the KJB, and the 1978 NIV agreed with the KJB. Then they all removed verses and words because they weren't in the Codex Vaticanus or Siriaticus.

 

[Rhema]

Only the Modern bibles, not the King James bible.

I would kindly suggest that you study a bit more before making that statement.

At the time of the KJV translation, the basic Greek text used was from Erasmus, who had only 5 or 6 manuscripts available. In addition, Erasmus published his Greek compilation as an appendix, in order to show that his LATIN translation was better than the Vulgate and should replace it.

In addition, the dialect of Greek, now known as "Koine" was unknown to the KJV translators.

“One man is to be given the credit for the discovery of the Koine – a German pastor named Adolf Deissmann. Even though one or two perceptive scholars had noted the true character of NT Greek as early as the middle of the nineteenth century, their statements made no impression on general opinion. Deissmann, on a visit to a friend in Marburg, found a volume of Greek papyri from Egypt, and leafing through this publication, he was struck by the similarity to the Greek of the NT. He followed up this observation with continued study, and his publications of his findings finally led to general acceptance of the position that the peculiarities of the Greek NT were, for the most part, to be explained by reference to the nonliterary Greek, the popular colloquial language of the period. He first published his results in two volumes of Bible Studies (1895, 1897) and later on in the justly popular Life from the Ancient East (1908).”​

​

- The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible, pg. 486.​

We know a LOT more now about the both the language, and the history of the NT manuscripts. Daniel Wallace is doing some great work here:

The Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts

www.csntm.org

The money incentive allows for much mischief.

The EXACT reason that the printer started calling his Greek text the "Textus Receptus."

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

All translations are compared to the King James bible for agreement.

That's not quite accurate. One would do better to get a good Greek Interlinear, and then compare that to the KJV. You might find this one really helpful:

The Interlinear KJV-NIV Parallel New Testament in Greek…

The Interlinear KJV-NIV Parallel New Testament does thr…

www.goodreads.com

The KJV people aren't the smartest throughout all history, ya know. It has mistakes that you can't see.

Rhema
(And I'd be glad to provide an example if you wish.)

 

[Rockerduck]

I would kindly suggest that you study a bit more before making that statement.

At the time of the KJV translation, the basic Greek text used was from Erasmus, who had only 5 or 6 manuscripts available. In addition, Erasmus published his Greek compilation as an appendix, in order to show that his LATIN translation was better than the Vulgate and should replace it.

In addition, the dialect of Greek, now known as "Koine" was unknown to the KJV translators.

“One man is to be given the credit for the discovery of the Koine – a German pastor named Adolf Deissmann. Even though one or two perceptive scholars had noted the true character of NT Greek as early as the middle of the nineteenth century, their statements made no impression on general opinion. Deissmann, on a visit to a friend in Marburg, found a volume of Greek papyri from Egypt, and leafing through this publication, he was struck by the similarity to the Greek of the NT. He followed up this observation with continued study, and his publications of his findings finally led to general acceptance of the position that the peculiarities of the Greek NT were, for the most part, to be explained by reference to the nonliterary Greek, the popular colloquial language of the period. He first published his results in two volumes of Bible Studies (1895, 1897) and later on in the justly popular Life from the Ancient East (1908).”​

​

- The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible, pg. 486.​

We know a LOT more now about the both the language, and the history of the NT manuscripts. Daniel Wallace is doing some great work here:

The Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts

www.csntm.org

The EXACT reason that the printer started calling his Greek text the "Textus Receptus."

Rhema

I could read your link for all the asking for donations. I'm well aware of Jerome in the 350's ad and Erasmus in the 1500's. Everything about the reformation. Everyone know Koine Greek was the common language for the people. The Aramaic language of the Peshitta bible. Believe me I know when I see Catholic influence on bible translations.

 

[Rockerduck]

That's not quite accurate. One would do better to get a good Greek Interlinear, and then compare that to the KJV. You might find this one really helpful:

The Interlinear KJV-NIV Parallel New Testament in Greek…

The Interlinear KJV-NIV Parallel New Testament does thr…

www.goodreads.com

The KJV people aren't the smartest throughout all history, ya know. It has mistakes that you can't see.

Rhema
(And I'd be glad to provide an example if you wish.)

I have that book by the way. I said I wasn't a KJB onlyist.

 

[Rhema]

Everyone know Koine Greek was the common language for the people.

No.

No they didn't.

Not at least until the start of the 1900's.

I could read your link for all the asking for donations.

as if each and every church doesn't do that on Sundays...

Believe me I know when I see Catholic influence on bible translations.

Well then, you're obviously aware that Luther took out a word in Ephesians, and added in a word in Romans for his German translation, so... you obviously know better than those of us who have learned the language.

Good luck with that,
Rhema

(What are your thoughts on people who add in words?)

 

[Rhema]

I have that book by the way. I said I wasn't a KJB onlyist.

FANTASTIC...

But have you ever actually compared them?
(And I'm thinking Ephesians 6:17)

Blessings,
Rhema

 

[MedicBravo]

@MedicBravo

This is just bizarre...

If one took out every other verse in the New Testament texts, it would read as if an insane person wrote it.

And this guy is trying to say that the overall narritive would not change?

Don't know who he is, and at this point, I'm not sure I want to. He may think he thinks well, but he really doesn't.

Obviously it's a polemic against Ehrman, but while Ehrman makes a number of mistakes of logic in his own right, there are valid concerns Ehrman raises that the Church really needs to address.

Rhema

Verses can NOT stand on their own.
Anyone can find a verse to fit an issue or narrative but they MUST be backed by preceding and following verses in context.

To many people believe and argue horrible stances on countless things in human history taking God and the Bible OUT of context.

It's sad that so many are ignorant or willingly making their own gods in this or outright mocking Him.

 

[Rhema]

taking God and the Bible OUT of context.

If one cannot take what is written at face value, then one creates God in his own imagination out of severe emotional problems.

Rhema

 

[Bill Taylor]

A very silly idea, friends. First, we are saved by faith and scripture teaches he that perseveres is saved. The question, bouncing around in the background is, "Is Yehovah omnipotent?" If you do not believe in Yehovah then you do not possess the indwelling of Ruah and without Him guiding your life, you cannot be saved. This question opens a can of worms that only the thick of skin should ever engage.

 

[Rhema]

This question opens a can of worms that only the thick of skin should ever engage.

I don't know, Bill. Maybe baby Christians need to grow up and persevere, knowing that the Bible is not inerrant.

If you do not believe in Yehovah ...

Oh I believe in Yehovah, much more than you can imagine.

The question, bouncing around in the background is, "Is Yehovah omnipotent?"

No. He is not. Yehovah does not have the power to do that which is not in His nature. Can Yehovah make ice sink? No He cannot. By His Word He has already declared that ice should float. To do otherwise would make Yehovah break His own Word (and I Don't Mean BIBLE). The Word (LOGOS) are the decisions He has woven into the very fabric of creation.

Now with regards to texts where pen has been put to paper, the evidence exists, the proof is established that the New Testament texts have been corrupted. BUT, as you yourself said, we are saved by faith, and it's not faith in a book. It's faith in God, and His Son.

Rhema
(Then again, perhaps "altered" is a better word than corrupted.)

 

[Bill Taylor]

I don't know, Bill. Maybe baby Christians need to grow up and persevere, knowing that the Bible is not inerrant.


Oh I believe in Yehovah, much more than you can imagine.


No. He is not. Yehovah does not have the power to do that which is not in His nature. Can Yehovah make ice sink? No He cannot. By His Word He has already declared that ice should float. To do otherwise would make Yehovah break His own Word (and I Don't Mean BIBLE). The Word (LOGOS) are the decisions He has woven into the very fabric of creation.

Now with regards to texts where pen has been put to paper, the evidence exists, the proof is established that the New Testament texts have been corrupted. BUT, as you yourself said, we are saved by faith, and it's not faith in a book. It's faith in God, and His Son.

Rhema
(Then again, perhaps "altered" is a better word than corrupted.)

You do not worship Yehovah because He is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. Your ice cube is a flakey illustration, even we can make an ice cube sink. That Yehovah will not do anything against His character does not mean He lacks the means to do it, it means He is principled and will not violate those principles, just like Christians are to strive to be.

 

[Rhema]

even we can make an ice cube sink.

Bill.... if you melt it, it ain't ice anymore.

(Try again.)

Rhema