Heaven after hell?

[KingJ]

The article has nothing to do with the Bible. There are no scripture, no verses, nothing to link it to Christianity at all.
There is nothing in the Bible about people being placed inside a bronze bull.
In fact the article says this bull is likely a myth, that may have never existed.
KingJ is placing his whole theology of what is good and evil on a secular article that doesn't even claim
that any of this ever happened.

You espouse God will burn people alive. A brazen bull is a torture device most applicable to this interpretation of scripture you and many others arrive at.

I am not pushing any theology, just exposing how utterly sick your interpretation of scripture on hell is.

 

[B-A-C]

None of the verses below are my interpretation.

Rev 20:10;
(AMPC) Then the devil who had led them astray [deceiving and seducing them] was hurled into the fiery lake of burning brimstone, where the beast and false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever (through the ages of the ages).
(ASV) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
(BBE) And the Evil One who put them in error was sent down into the sea of ever-burning fire, where the beast and the false prophet are, and their punishment will go on day and night for ever and ever.
(CEV) Then the devil who fooled them will be thrown into the lake of fire and burning sulfur. He will be there with the beast and the false prophet, and they will be in pain day and night forever and ever.
(CSB) The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(ESV) and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(GNB) Then the Devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(Greek NT TR+) καιG2532 CONJ οG3588 T-NSM διαβολοςG1228 A-NSM οG3588 T-NSM πλανωνG4105 V-PAP-NSM αυτουςG846 P-APM εβληθηG906 V-API-3S ειςG1519 PREP τηνG3588 T-ASF λιμνηνG3041 N-ASF τουG3588 T-GSN πυροςG4442 N-GSN καιG2532 CONJ θειουG2303 N-GSN οπουG3699 ADV τοG3588 T-NSN θηριονG2342 N-NSN καιG2532 CONJ οG3588 T-NSM ψευδοπροφητηςG5578 N-NSM καιG2532 CONJ βασανισθησονταιG928 V-FPI-3P ημεραςG2250 N-GSF καιG2532 CONJ νυκτοςG3571 N-GSF ειςG1519 PREP τουςG3588 T-APM αιωναςG165 N-APM τωνG3588 T-GPM αιωνωνG165 N-GPM
(GW) The devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were also thrown. They will be tortured day and night forever and ever.
(HCSB) The Devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(ISV) and the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were. They will be tortured day and night forever and ever.
(KJV) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
(KJVA) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
(MKJV) And the Devil who deceived them was cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet were . And he will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(MSG) The Devil who deceived them will be hurled into Lake Fire and Brimstone, joining the Beast and False Prophet, the three in torment around the clock for ages without end.
(NAS77) And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(NASB) And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(NIrV) The devil, who fooled them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur. That is where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will all suffer day and night for ever and ever.
(NIV) And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
(NKJV) The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(NLT) Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(RV) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
(TPT) Then the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the same place with the wild beast and the false prophet—the lake of fire and sulfur—where they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Rev 14:9; Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11; "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

Matt 25:45; "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Luke 16:23; "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luke 16:24; "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'
Luke 16:25; "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.
Luke 16:28; for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

The wrath of God will not satisfied until every sin is paid for, one way or another.

Isa 53:4; Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:10; But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.
Isa 53:11; As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities.

Jesus can pay for you... or you will have to pay. But you will sit in hell until someone pays.

 

[Sue D.]

@KingJ -- hell is not meant to be a picnic. It Is the holding place for those who don't accept God's Way of staying out of there. The eventual lake of fire and brimstone -- the same thing. Not meant for people -- other than satan, the beast and the false prophet. Those last two might be people-- I don't know. They Have to be there -- no one else does.

The lake of fire and brimstone is not meant to be torture -- well -- maybe it Is -- God's punishment for those three entities. It's meant to last forever.

Why do you think that all the 'other's that you allude to who have 'this' interpretation of Scripture regarding hell / lake of fire and brimstone? Since it's in Scripture -- God wants us to know about it. He's Not sugar-coating it's reality. God is warning all of us. Beware -- take heed.

The people who are wanting to sugar-coat it Are doing other people a disservice

Satan would have us believe that for the non-born again people -- they will be with all their other non-believing friends being able to have all kinds of fun Without having God and all those other Christians hindering their 'fun'. But that environment is described as being pitch dark -- not realizing that God is the giver Of light. It will be like living / existing in a charcoal grill like we bbq meat on. And once a person realizes all of that, there won't be any turning back. So -- it's in our best interest to accept the worse description and stay out.

 

[Sue D.]

@B.A.C -- Jesus Christ has already paid -- a person stays in hell for rejecting the person who already paid the price. Well -- those in hell will end up in that eternal lake of fire and brimstone. No turning back.

 

[B-A-C]

Matt 13:42; and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matt 13:50; and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

2Pet 2:1; But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
2Pet 2:2; Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned;
2Pet 2:3; and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
2Pet 2:4; For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;
2Pet 2:5; and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2Pet 2:6; and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;
2Pet 2:7; and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled men
2Pet 2:8; for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds,
2Pet 2:9; then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment,

Jude 1:6; And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
Jude 1:7; just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

 

[KingJ]

None of the verses below are my interpretation.

Rev 20:10;
(AMPC) Then the devil who had led them astray [deceiving and seducing them] was hurled into the fiery lake of burning brimstone, where the beast and false prophet were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever (through the ages of the ages).
(ASV) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
(BBE) And the Evil One who put them in error was sent down into the sea of ever-burning fire, where the beast and the false prophet are, and their punishment will go on day and night for ever and ever.
(CEV) Then the devil who fooled them will be thrown into the lake of fire and burning sulfur. He will be there with the beast and the false prophet, and they will be in pain day and night forever and ever.
(CSB) The devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(ESV) and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(GNB) Then the Devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(Greek NT TR+) καιG2532 CONJ οG3588 T-NSM διαβολοςG1228 A-NSM οG3588 T-NSM πλανωνG4105 V-PAP-NSM αυτουςG846 P-APM εβληθηG906 V-API-3S ειςG1519 PREP τηνG3588 T-ASF λιμνηνG3041 N-ASF τουG3588 T-GSN πυροςG4442 N-GSN καιG2532 CONJ θειουG2303 N-GSN οπουG3699 ADV τοG3588 T-NSN θηριονG2342 N-NSN καιG2532 CONJ οG3588 T-NSM ψευδοπροφητηςG5578 N-NSM καιG2532 CONJ βασανισθησονταιG928 V-FPI-3P ημεραςG2250 N-GSF καιG2532 CONJ νυκτοςG3571 N-GSF ειςG1519 PREP τουςG3588 T-APM αιωναςG165 N-APM τωνG3588 T-GPM αιωνωνG165 N-GPM
(GW) The devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were also thrown. They will be tortured day and night forever and ever.
(HCSB) The Devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet are, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(ISV) and the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet were. They will be tortured day and night forever and ever.
(KJV) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
(KJVA) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
(MKJV) And the Devil who deceived them was cast into the Lake of Fire and Brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet were . And he will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(MSG) The Devil who deceived them will be hurled into Lake Fire and Brimstone, joining the Beast and False Prophet, the three in torment around the clock for ages without end.
(NAS77) And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(NASB) And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(NIrV) The devil, who fooled them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur. That is where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will all suffer day and night for ever and ever.
(NIV) And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
(NKJV) The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(NLT) Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
(RV) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; and they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
(TPT) Then the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the same place with the wild beast and the false prophet—the lake of fire and sulfur—where they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Rev 14:9; Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,
Rev 14:10; he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
Rev 14:11; "And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

Matt 25:45; "Then He will answer them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
Matt 25:46; "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Luke 16:23; "In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luke 16:24; "And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.'
Luke 16:25; "But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony.
Luke 16:28; for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

The wrath of God will not satisfied until every sin is paid for, one way or another.

Isa 53:4; Surely our griefs He Himself bore, And our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, Smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:10; But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.
Isa 53:11; As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities.

Jesus can pay for you... or you will have to pay. But you will sit in hell until someone pays.

Anyone can Google ''verses on hell''.

Pick a verse you believe suggests hell will be a place of torture and we can discuss it. Don't pick a hundred verses and expect a proper analysis of each one in a reply. That reply will be two full pages and you will not read it.

Remember, torment and torture have different meanings.

Oscar Pretorius was in '''torment'' in court when facing prosecution for murder.

When Oscar Pretorius was sent to prison, he endured one or two events of torture by the hands of inmates.

The rich man in Hades was burning in fire before judgement day. He was not screaming in fire and he did not ask for bucket loads of water.

When you can grasp the difference between torment and torture, you will grasp how a good God says the verses you quoted and yet will still be judged as a good, righteous and loving God.

 

[KingJ]

@KingJ -- hell is not meant to be a picnic.

Please quote my line that makes you think I think it will be a picnic.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

I gave you a link to a brazen bull torture device as my definition of wicked.

I am interested, how would you come to a different interpretation of the link? Seeing someone tortured in a brazen bull will make you think of roses and daisies in the field?

That is why it is best to be clear. Everyone doesn't think the same.
So it is best to answer a question with a clear answer, if you don't you are leaving room for interpretation.

So what I gather is your definition of wicked is

"When you inflict pain upon another person for the sake of pleasure"

Is this correct brother?

 

[KingJ]

That is why it is best to be clear. Everyone doesn't think the same.
So it is best to answer a question with a clear answer, if you don't you are leaving room for interpretation.

So what I gather is your definition of wicked is

"When you inflict pain upon another person for the sake of pleasure"

Is this correct brother?

No. You don't need to take pleasure in someones pain to be guilty of torture.

Torture is any prolonged pain.

 

[Sue D.]

Please quote my line that makes you think I think it will be a picnic.

KingJ -- it's your general attitude -- you're attempt at down-playing the subject of hell. That it won't really be all that bad and won't last forever. And horrors be to the person who portrays it as horrible. And that That is making God seem like some horrible monster who'd 'torture people forever' . You've found some passages that say God is good. And , you, in turn have suggested that I'm some horrible person for my portrayal of God.

 

[The Kreisel]

Hell -- is the 'holding place' until they get to the great White Throne Judgement -- and then they go to their Final place for eternity / the lake of fire and brimstone. Those are different places and times.

David said, "If I make my bed in Hell (Sheol), thou art there" - Psalm 139:8
How would David know? Did he 'die and go to hell'?
Hmm - the religions of men tell us 'hell is eternal separation from God' .
Where is that in the Bible? Aside from false translations from the greek.

 

[Sue D.]

@The Kreisel ---- so Aside from false translations from the Greek?! If you read the entirety of that Psalm , you probably wouldn't be asking.

 

[The Kreisel]

@The Kreisel ---- so Aside from false translations from the Greek?! If you read the entirety of that Psalm , you probably wouldn't be asking.

You might want to not avoid Psalm 139:8, first.
I'm sure it confuses your already confused ideology.

 

[Sue D.]

@ The Kresel -- I'm not going to be part of a word fight.

Psalm 139: 8 "If I ascend into heaven, You are there, If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there."

The context being that God is Spirit and we can't hide from Him. His Holy Spirit is with us when we are in bed with someone we aren't supposed to be with .. He knows our every thought when we think it.

Nothing is hidden from God.

God knows where each person is spending eternity.

Now -- can you be a nice poster?

 

[The Kreisel]

@ The Kresel -- I'm not going to be part of a word fight.

Psalm 139: 8 "If I ascend into heaven, You are there, If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there."

The context being that God is Spirit and we can't hide from Him. His Holy Spirit is with us when we are in bed with someone we aren't supposed to be with .. He knows our every thought when we think it.

Nothing is hidden from God.

God knows where each person is spending eternity.

Now -- can you be a nice poster?

Yup, God has predestined all things - Ephesians 1:10-11:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

 

[Sue D.]

@The Kreisel -- so now you are bringing predestination into the conversation. Your point is........?

 

[B-A-C]

@B.A.C -- Jesus Christ has already paid -- a person stays in hell for rejecting the person who already paid the price.

This is the good news. No one "has" to go to hell. Anyone can accept Jesus. Some people just don't want to.
We can sit around and complain what hell will be like, but if it bothers you so much, don't end up there. (That's a rhetorical question, not addressed to you)
If people really believed the Bible, if they really believed God.. if they really believed there was a hell.... there would be a lot less unsaved people.

But people think God doesn't exist, hell is a myth, and eternal damnation is fairy tale.
So I'll live however I want, do whatever I want to... because after all, there is no punishment for it.
Jesus doesn't save us from anything... because there's nothing to be saved from.

This is amazingly similar to the first lie and sin in the Bible.

Gen 3:1; Now the serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Indeed, has God said, 'You shall not eat from any tree of the garden'?"
Gen 3:4; The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die!

Go ahead and sin... God doesn't care.

 

[B-A-C]

I assume no one posting in this thread is currently in prison. ( or even jail )
Why aren't you in prison? Because you make sure you don't do the things that will get you sent there.
Don't kill anyone, don't steal from people, don't destroy other people's property.
Apparently you are able to do this ... you aren't in prison.

If you don't want to go to hell/Lake of Fire (yes they are 2 different places, but one leads to the other)
Then accept Jesus, and repent.
It's really not much harder than staying out of jail.

 

[The Kreisel]

Revelation 20:10
And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

What is the 'Devil'?

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

I assume no one posting in this thread is currently in prison. ( or even jail )
Why aren't you in prison? Because you make sure you don't do the things that will get you sent there.
Don't kill anyone, don't steal from people, don't destroy other people's property.
Apparently you are able to do this ... you aren't in prison.

If you don't want to go to hell/Lake of Fire (yes they are 2 different places, but one leads to the other)
Then accept Jesus, and repent.
It's really not much harder than staying out of jail.

Brother @B-A-C you make a good point.

I'll answer you. I think we (people --not speaking directly of individuals on this thread) want to do our sins and justify in our minds why
we should be able to keep our sin and heaven. And/Or we want to get to heaven on our own terms (works, etc).

Which is why you here these talks about all roads (Muslims, Buddhist, etc) leading to Jesus. Or different versions of that where they
don't say all roads lead to heaven but they slightly change theology so it fits their worldview. People don't want to change to receive
the gift of God. They would rather deceive themselves and tell themselves the way they view the world is correct, so they change the BIble
to fit their world view, so they don't have to change.

People want the crown without the cross.

I like what Dr. Michael Brown said. He said we have perverted the gospel in the Western world
Jesus said, Deny yourself, take up your cross, and follow me
We say, Affirm yourself, laid down your cross, and Jesus will follow you.