Homosexuality

[Diplodocus]

Homosexuality
CARM - Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

1. Agenda, the homosexuals want acceptability, recognition, and approval.
   1. Homosexuals want others in society to think like them (and behave like them?). They are working hard to change moral, social, and political opinion to be more in line with what they want. They are not content to be what they want to be. They want others to accept them. They want others opinions to change and conform to their ideology and behavior. What gives them the right to try and change society into what they want it to be?
2. Animal kingdom: Homosexuality occurs in the animal world; therefore, it is natural
   1. Saying that homosexuality is natural because it occurs in the animal kingdom does not mean it is morally correct. Animals also eat each other alive, devour offspring, etc. Should we imitate those things as well because the animals do it? Of course not.
   2. From an evolutionary perspective how does homosexuality further the development and distribution of the human species? It cannot. Homosexuality would obviously work for self extermination. Therefore, how is it natural if what it leads to is self destruction? It would seem that natural selection would have removed the "gene for homosexuality" since it would not lead to reproduction. It would seem then, that homosexuality is not natural but is a learned behavior.
3. Born as Homosexuals: If homosexuals are born that way, it would be natural to them
   1. There is no proof that homosexuals are born that way. Research is all over the place and no conclusive evidence has been shown that demonstrates they are born that way.
   2. If a behavior is said to be natural to a person and this is why homosexuality should be accepted, is it not also natural that people lie and so they too should be accepted? Children don't need to be taught how to lie; it appears to be natural to them. Should we then say that because the behavior of lying is natural to people there should be special privileges for them, and accept that in society because that's just the way they're born and that is their truth-orientation?
4. Freedom like anyone else
   1. They are already free to marry a person of the opposite sex, the same as anyone else.
   2. They can still get married and express love, own businesses, own property, have sexual relations, received an inheritance, etc.
   3. For homosexuals to advocate redefining marriage so it can include union between a man and man, and a woman and a woman, and to have it protected legally, is to want special rights for them due to their behavior. If behaviors are granted legal protection, then what about the behaviors of pedophilia, jump roping, and scuba diving? Should those behaviors also be given political protection?
   4. Yes, they are free to love, hate, work, eat, etc. But they want marriage redefined to suit their behavior of same sex intercourse.
   5. Freedom requires responsibility.
      1. People are not free to rob banks, to murder, to steal, etc.
      2. Simply saying they aren't free to marry who they want to isn't a good enough objection because...
         1. A person is not free to marry another person who is already married.
         2. A brother and sister are not free to marry each other.
         3. A pedophiliac and his younger "partner" are not free to marry each other, even if the younger person, say a 13 year old, wants to marry the older person.
         4. A person is not free to marry an animal.
         5. A person is not free to marry another person against that person's will.
         6. If freedom to marry whomever you want to is the litmus test for marriage, then marriage will become meaningless as people redefine it to include those already married, siblings, children, animals, etc., as long as "love" is the defining characteristic.
      3. If we allow and promote homosexual marriage, then shouldn't we also allow and promote polygamy, polyandry, brothers and sisters getting married, pedophiliacs marrying children, and adults marrying animals? If not, why not?
5. Love:
   1. Homosexuals say they should be able to marry who they love. But why is this true? What if a person wants to marry someone who is already married, or is a child? Should that person be allowed to marry someone because it is an issue of love? Of course not. Love is not the measure of marriage validity. There are other issues, so to say that homosexuals should be able to marry whoever they love is a misrepresentation of the issue.
6. Rights, Civil:
   1. Civil Rights
      1. Homosexuals already have the same civil rights and restrictions as everyone else. They are able to hold jobs, marry people of the opposite sex, use the same bathrooms as anyone else, vote, etc. But, marriage is not a civil right. It is a privilege the same as the behavior of driving a car is a privilege, not a right.
      2. Homosexuals are using the civil rights movement to force their moral agenda on the rest of society...a moral agenda based on sexual behavior.
      3. Unalienable rights are given by God, according to the Declaration of Independence in the U.S.A.
         1. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
         2. These rights are irrespective of skin color, gender, age, etc. They are not based on behavior. If they were, then parachutists should get special rights, along with Jump Ropers, Race Car Drivers, and Skate Boarders because of their behaviors.
         3. What is to prevent pedophiliacs from wanting their sexual behavior protected by "civil rights" laws? What about necrophiliacs, and those who practice bestiality? They also are defined by their sexual behavior. Should they also be protected legally? If not, why not?
7. Rights, special rights based on a behavior
   1. They have the same rights under the law as do all people in America. The same laws apply to everyone equally. Laws often have restrictions. Behaviors are not civil rights. Stretching every day is not a civil right, nor is going to the gym, walking, going to the bathroom, etc. The sexual behavior of homosexuals is not a civil right. It is a behavior and the homosexuals are hiding under "civil rights" in order to change the meaning of marriage and force society into accepting it as normal.
   2. To marry the same sex is to request special treatment by having special laws passed that socially and politically approve of a particular sexual behavior and redefine what marriage is. This is, by definition, special rights.

 

[homewardbound]

Your post will probably unleash a torrent of criticism, and it will be interesting to see how many call you homophobic....which, of course, is a grossly incorrect but convenient label people use to categorically dismiss the opinions of others.

I can't say I disagree with any of the above points. I do hope, though, that this thread leads to fruitful discussion about how to reach out to those who struggle with this sin. Everyone is a slave to some sort of vice at some point in their life, and I pray that those who engage in homosexual behavior encounter our risen Lord. He will satisfy their deepest needs and save them from what God clearly forbids, just as He has for every believer who has engaged in a sinful lifestyle. And we all have.

To those of you who are struggling, whether it be with homosexuality, lust, gambling, alcohol, or whatever, I pray you don't listen to the deception you hear in the media, nor what you might think is 'natural' to you. We can be so easily misled.

Pro 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.

 

[jgood]

Dear Chad, et al...

This topic is one in which I have studied extensively in order to be able to best present the truth to a family member bound to the sin of homosexuality. I always try to share the ways that the Lord has given me victory over sins in my life so as not to appear holier-than-thou when talking to him, but it does not negate my responsibility as God's ambassador (see 2 Corinthians 5:20) to "speak the truth in love." I have encountered people (even some well-meaning, albeit unlearned Christians) who have believed what they have heard about homosexuality which is that it is something inherent in the person. In other words, they are born a homosexual. The problem with this viewpoint is that "it is written" "Let no one say when he is tempted, 'I am being tempted by God'; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin, and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death." --James 1:13-15 It usually becomes immediately apparent to a true believer that this verse reveals that God would never "make" someone a homosexual and then call it sin in the scripture because he does not tempt us to sin. It is the homosexual who has a harder time with this verse because "he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised" (1 Corinthians 2:14), but we continue to lovingly present the truth to them because we really love them with a love that wants them to be saved. We aren't ashamed to put forth the truth, but we do it in all humility and gentleness with all prayer that one day God will grant them repentance when they witness His goodness. I think it is a very valid request to begin a thread on how to present the truth to homosexuals so we become better ambassadors and they can find release from bondage.

 

[stephen]

Your post will probably unleash a torrent of criticism, and it will be interesting to see how many call you homophobic....which, of course, is a grossly incorrect but convenient label people use to categorically dismiss the opinions of others.

I can't say I disagree with any of the above points. I do hope, though, that this thread leads to fruitful discussion about how to reach out to those who struggle with this sin. Everyone is a slave to some sort of vice at some point in their life, and I pray that those who engage in homosexual behavior encounter our risen Lord. He will satisfy their deepest needs and save them from what God clearly forbids, just as He has for every believer who has engaged in a sinful lifestyle. And we all have.

To those of you who are struggling, whether it be with homosexuality, lust, gambling, alcohol, or whatever, I pray you don't listen to the deception you hear in the media, nor what you might think is 'natural' to you. We can be so easily misled.

Pro 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.

.................................................................................

Here is something which I came across recently.

Evangelical Leader Touts Gospel, Not Therapy, as Way to 'Reorient' Gays

The "reorientation" of a homosexual is not impossible, suggests one prominent evangelical. That is, when Christ is in the mix.

Dr. Albert Mohler, president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, concedes that therapy - the secular kind - is not likely to change a person. But there is hope when a person acknowledges sin and is redeemed by Christ. "We will hold no hope for any sinner's ability to change his or her own heart, and we will hold little hope for any secular therapy to offer more than marginal improvement in a sinner's life," he argued in his blog Tuesday.

"We hold full confidence in the power of the Gospel and of the reign of Christ within the life of the believer. We know that something as deeply entrenched as a pattern of sexual attraction is not easily changed, but we know that with Christ all things are possible."

Mohler is weighing in on a debate that was reignited after a pro-gay group, Truth Wins Outs, accused Bachmann & Associates of showing "great antipathy towards gay and lesbian people" by practicing reparative therapy. The Christian counseling center, owned by Michele and Marcus Bachmann, was recently visited by TWO's John Becker who posed as a Christian wanting to get rid of his homosexuality.

While Marcus Bachmann, a clinical therapist for more than 20 years, has stated that they would help patients struggling with same-sex desires if such help was requested, he highlighted that the counseling center mainly deals with issues such as depression and anxiety.

The debate over "curing gays," as some call it, is one that Christians cannot avoid, Mohler believes. At the same time, Christians should not enter the debate "on secular terms."

"We must bring to this conversation everything we know from God's Word about our sin and God's provision for sinners in Christ," [he] stressed.

(Nathan Black, "Evangelical Leader Touts Gospel, Not Therapy, as Way to 'Reorient' Gays

," Christian Post, July 19, 2011).

 

[stephen]

Homosexuality
CARM - Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

1. Agenda, the homosexuals want acceptability, recognition, and approval.
   1. Homosexuals want others in society to think like them (and behave like them?). They are working hard to change moral, social, and political opinion to be more in line with what they want. They are not content to be what they want to be. They want others to accept them. They want others opinions to change and conform to their ideology and behavior. What gives them the right to try and change society into what they want it to be?
2. Animal kingdom: Homosexuality occurs in the animal world; therefore, it is natural
   1. Saying that homosexuality is natural because it occurs in the animal kingdom does not mean it is morally correct. Animals also eat each other alive, devour offspring, etc. Should we imitate those things as well because the animals do it? Of course not.
   2. From an evolutionary perspective how does homosexuality further the development and distribution of the human species? It cannot. Homosexuality would obviously work for self extermination. Therefore, how is it natural if what it leads to is self destruction? It would seem that natural selection would have removed the "gene for homosexuality" since it would not lead to reproduction. It would seem then, that homosexuality is not natural but is a learned behavior.
3. Born as Homosexuals: If homosexuals are born that way, it would be natural to them
   1. There is no proof that homosexuals are born that way. Research is all over the place and no conclusive evidence has been shown that demonstrates they are born that way.
   2. If a behavior is said to be natural to a person and this is why homosexuality should be accepted, is it not also natural that people lie and so they too should be accepted? Children don't need to be taught how to lie; it appears to be natural to them. Should we then say that because the behavior of lying is natural to people there should be special privileges for them, and accept that in society because that's just the way they're born and that is their truth-orientation?
4. Freedom like anyone else
   1. They are already free to marry a person of the opposite sex, the same as anyone else.
   2. They can still get married and express love, own businesses, own property, have sexual relations, received an inheritance, etc.
   3. For homosexuals to advocate redefining marriage so it can include union between a man and man, and a woman and a woman, and to have it protected legally, is to want special rights for them due to their behavior. If behaviors are granted legal protection, then what about the behaviors of pedophilia, jump roping, and scuba diving? Should those behaviors also be given political protection?
   4. Yes, they are free to love, hate, work, eat, etc. But they want marriage redefined to suit their behavior of same sex intercourse.
   5. Freedom requires responsibility.
      1. People are not free to rob banks, to murder, to steal, etc.
      2. Simply saying they aren't free to marry who they want to isn't a good enough objection because...
         1. A person is not free to marry another person who is already married.
         2. A brother and sister are not free to marry each other.
         3. A pedophiliac and his younger "partner" are not free to marry each other, even if the younger person, say a 13 year old, wants to marry the older person.
         4. A person is not free to marry an animal.
         5. A person is not free to marry another person against that person's will.
         6. If freedom to marry whomever you want to is the litmus test for marriage, then marriage will become meaningless as people redefine it to include those already married, siblings, children, animals, etc., as long as "love" is the defining characteristic.
      3. If we allow and promote homosexual marriage, then shouldn't we also allow and promote polygamy, polyandry, brothers and sisters getting married, pedophiliacs marrying children, and adults marrying animals? If not, why not?
5. Love:
   1. Homosexuals say they should be able to marry who they love. But why is this true? What if a person wants to marry someone who is already married, or is a child? Should that person be allowed to marry someone because it is an issue of love? Of course not. Love is not the measure of marriage validity. There are other issues, so to say that homosexuals should be able to marry whoever they love is a misrepresentation of the issue.
6. Rights, Civil:
   1. Civil Rights
      1. Homosexuals already have the same civil rights and restrictions as everyone else. They are able to hold jobs, marry people of the opposite sex, use the same bathrooms as anyone else, vote, etc. But, marriage is not a civil right. It is a privilege the same as the behavior of driving a car is a privilege, not a right.
      2. Homosexuals are using the civil rights movement to force their moral agenda on the rest of society...a moral agenda based on sexual behavior.
      3. Unalienable rights are given by God, according to the Declaration of Independence in the U.S.A.
         1. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
         2. These rights are irrespective of skin color, gender, age, etc. They are not based on behavior. If they were, then parachutists should get special rights, along with Jump Ropers, Race Car Drivers, and Skate Boarders because of their behaviors.
         3. What is to prevent pedophiliacs from wanting their sexual behavior protected by "civil rights" laws? What about necrophiliacs, and those who practice bestiality? They also are defined by their sexual behavior. Should they also be protected legally? If not, why not?
7. Rights, special rights based on a behavior
   1. They have the same rights under the law as do all people in America. The same laws apply to everyone equally. Laws often have restrictions. Behaviors are not civil rights. Stretching every day is not a civil right, nor is going to the gym, walking, going to the bathroom, etc. The sexual behavior of homosexuals is not a civil right. It is a behavior and the homosexuals are hiding under "civil rights" in order to change the meaning of marriage and force society into accepting it as normal.
   2. To marry the same sex is to request special treatment by having special laws passed that socially and politically approve of a particular sexual behavior and redefine what marriage is. This is, by definition, special rights.

Dear Friend

You are 20 y.o.a. and reading your post here I see that you can put something together.

As I see it your post is about the base the abhorent levels of human life, and the degradation of such

You tell us that you are not 'born again.'

A person is not free to marry an animal.

Is this what you have been taught in life thus far.

I do not have the time neither do I have the patience to try to absorb all that you have said. Your study reflects a broken society without God and without hope.

I encourage you to pursue the Christian Way. I encourage you to take the time to meet Jesus. Not religeon, I am talking about an experience.

If you could meet Him, the life you would discover would be far different from from your O.P.