So how do we forgive God ?,.......this is a question that goes round and round in my head every time i see suffering in this world, like the drought that is presently raging in the Horn of Africa threatening the lives of 12 million men, women and children, ........ if God is all knowing, all powerful and all present just how do we forgive him/her for all the horrors that constitute human history,........ the natural disasters, the genocides, the greed, selfishness and lust that seem to predominate our nature,...... why not stop the Tsunami that killed over 250,000 in Indonesia in 2004, or the Cyclone that killed over 130,000 in Burma in 2008, ........ why not stop the birth of Hitler and save tens of millions , or prevent the plane crash that triggered the Rwandan Genocide,...... why did God make us as we are with such a propensity for greed, violence and lust that lead to the deaths of over 8 million young children every year,....... in short, how do we forgive God for creating us and the world the way it is.
How do we forgive God?
- Thread starter Rad
- Start date
We have no valid accusation against God that requires Him to be forgiven. He gave us life and we squander it in selfish pursuits. I won't bother mentioning the fall as I am sure you understand the consequences from that. The question shouldn't be " how do we forgive God" but " how do we understand Him better".
Don't you think?
AbbysAunt
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Rad,
What is that God should be forgiven for? Should it be for creating what was a perfect world in both beauty and God's peace or should it be for creating man to look after what He created? When Adam and Eve were created they were created perfect...they were infact without sin, but then satan in the form of a snake enticed eve and she ate of the fruit that God specifically had told both male and female not to eat from. This began the fall of man a time when sin offically entered in.
Genesis2:16-17 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying " of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.
Here was the warning from God stated directly to Adam..do not eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge or when you do you shall surely die". Then God decided to make woman a help mate for Adam and Eve was created using a rib from Adam. Now, im sure Adam passed along to Eve what God said about the tree they were not eat from, but then along comes satan that old serpant and says to her " hey do you really believe if you eat
of that tree you are going to die?"
Genesis3:4-5 Then the serpant said to the woman, You will not surely die. For God knows
that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened; and you will like God, knowing good and evil.
So, what does eve do? She of her own free will takes and eats the fruit she was told not to...God didn't force her...she did it on her own. Then if that weren't enough she takes the fruit back to her husband Adam who also knows what God has said and he of his own free will eats the same fruit! Was he forced..no he sure wasn't he did this of his own free will"
Genesis3:6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate.
She also gave to her husband with her and he ate.
Both knew the concequences that went along with eating that fruit, but both thinking they knew better than God ate that fruit and we all know how that turned out for them don't we? Now get this...when God asked Adam did you eat from the tree you were told not to eat from and adam says" Hey Lord it is the fault of the woman you gave me she made me eat it" so then God asks eve what have you done? and eve says it wasn't my fault it was the serpant's fault for tempting me. Do we see a pattern here? noone wants
to take responsibility for what happened...Adam should of said yes Lord I ate the fruit and eve should of said yes Lord I did eat of the fruit and both should of taken responsibilty for their actions but nooooooo they blame everyone else because noone wants to take the blame.
Genesis3:11-13 And He said, " who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree which I commanded you that you should not eat? Then the man said " The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree of and I ate. And the Lord said to the woman, What is this you have done? The woman said The serpent deceived me and I ate.
Now who should be forgiven here? Surely not God He did nothing wrong...it was Adam and Eve who did this of their own free will and it was them that should of admitted that and begged forgiveness from our Lord..which I am sure they did tell Him they were sorry. But, there was still concequences..they were made accountable for what they did... Adam had to toil and work the land to provide for himself and his family...and not only that death entered in and God told him as much when he said from the ground you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you shall return." Eve would now have to suffer
pain when she bore her children and death would touch her as well...from that point on death entered in...but that was not God's fault once again it was man's fault for choosing not to listen to God in the first place.
But, now get this God would come up with the greatest plan to bring us back to Him a plan so perfect that it would use His own Son Jesus Christ...for it was to be through the death and ressurection of His Son that we would all be saved" Since God knowing since the time of Adam and Eve man was not perfect and had faults He also knew His plan for salvation was going to be put into place...and it was my friend...Jesus became the atonement for our sin...He bore our sin, shame, diseases, sorrow, humilation and more than we can imagine on that cross...by His blood we are covered and saved from the death that entered in by man...We can live eternally forever with Him in Heaven and death nomore has a hold on us we are free!
Now, here is God and man whom He created went ahead of his own free will and went against Him, but still because He loved us so much and was willing that we do not suffer offered His own son as atonement for us and you ask how can you we forgive Him? Forgive Him for what? Loving us so much that He gave up the only Son He had so that we could be saved?
We here on earth are all born with a free will and based on how we use that free will the concequences are either good or bad...alot of bad happens in this world but it is not God's fault it is the fault of the people who take that free will and use it to hurt, kill and destroy..God will not force anyone to follow Him that is why its called free will my friend.
because we get to decide which way we will go and what we will do and God wants us to use our free will to come to Him and choose His ways, but in this world we live in many have turned from Him...we now live in a world where the very mention of the name of Jesus or God can get you put in jail, where babies are being killed everyday by abortion, where we teach our children that wrong is right and right is wrong, we teach our teens to use condoms instead of teaching the word of God, many countries worship other gods and turn their backs on the most High God and King of Kings. In this world we have emotional, mental and physical abuse running out of control, and yes there is murder of innocent people..but this is not His fault it is man's fault for turning their backs on Him.God is not willing that any should suffer...that is why He made a way for us to be reconciled to Him through the sacrifice of His son. Jesus Himself in obedience to the Father and out of love for us sacrificed His life so that we could live...Our Lord sees all the hurt and tradegy of this world and how man has defiled His name and turned on Him and yet He still loves with a love so strong and so big that He wants us...Yes wants us as imperfect as we are..still wants us. God isn't the one who should be forgiven for anything...it is us my friend who need to get down on our knees and beg His forgiveness.
Because we are the ones that are to blame. It is us who should beg for His mercy. He has done no wrong all our Lord has done is Love us and then waited on us to see if we would return that love.
John3:16-21 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send
His son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. and this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, less his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.
None of us is perfect and we have all fallen short, but our Merciful, loving, forgiving Father made for us a way to Him...It is us that need forgiven and should be asking Him " Father please forgive me for I have fallen short and sinned, take my life make it yours that I may learn not only to live like you but to be like you in all that I say, do and think. I love you Lord and ask this in your name Amen and Amen!
What is that God should be forgiven for? Should it be for creating what was a perfect world in both beauty and God's peace or should it be for creating man to look after what He created? When Adam and Eve were created they were created perfect...they were infact without sin, but then satan in the form of a snake enticed eve and she ate of the fruit that God specifically had told both male and female not to eat from. This began the fall of man a time when sin offically entered in.
Genesis2:16-17 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying " of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.
Here was the warning from God stated directly to Adam..do not eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge or when you do you shall surely die". Then God decided to make woman a help mate for Adam and Eve was created using a rib from Adam. Now, im sure Adam passed along to Eve what God said about the tree they were not eat from, but then along comes satan that old serpant and says to her " hey do you really believe if you eat
of that tree you are going to die?"
Genesis3:4-5 Then the serpant said to the woman, You will not surely die. For God knows
that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened; and you will like God, knowing good and evil.
So, what does eve do? She of her own free will takes and eats the fruit she was told not to...God didn't force her...she did it on her own. Then if that weren't enough she takes the fruit back to her husband Adam who also knows what God has said and he of his own free will eats the same fruit! Was he forced..no he sure wasn't he did this of his own free will"
Genesis3:6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate.
She also gave to her husband with her and he ate.
Both knew the concequences that went along with eating that fruit, but both thinking they knew better than God ate that fruit and we all know how that turned out for them don't we? Now get this...when God asked Adam did you eat from the tree you were told not to eat from and adam says" Hey Lord it is the fault of the woman you gave me she made me eat it" so then God asks eve what have you done? and eve says it wasn't my fault it was the serpant's fault for tempting me. Do we see a pattern here? noone wants
to take responsibility for what happened...Adam should of said yes Lord I ate the fruit and eve should of said yes Lord I did eat of the fruit and both should of taken responsibilty for their actions but nooooooo they blame everyone else because noone wants to take the blame.
Genesis3:11-13 And He said, " who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree which I commanded you that you should not eat? Then the man said " The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree of and I ate. And the Lord said to the woman, What is this you have done? The woman said The serpent deceived me and I ate.
Now who should be forgiven here? Surely not God He did nothing wrong...it was Adam and Eve who did this of their own free will and it was them that should of admitted that and begged forgiveness from our Lord..which I am sure they did tell Him they were sorry. But, there was still concequences..they were made accountable for what they did... Adam had to toil and work the land to provide for himself and his family...and not only that death entered in and God told him as much when he said from the ground you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you shall return." Eve would now have to suffer
pain when she bore her children and death would touch her as well...from that point on death entered in...but that was not God's fault once again it was man's fault for choosing not to listen to God in the first place.
But, now get this God would come up with the greatest plan to bring us back to Him a plan so perfect that it would use His own Son Jesus Christ...for it was to be through the death and ressurection of His Son that we would all be saved" Since God knowing since the time of Adam and Eve man was not perfect and had faults He also knew His plan for salvation was going to be put into place...and it was my friend...Jesus became the atonement for our sin...He bore our sin, shame, diseases, sorrow, humilation and more than we can imagine on that cross...by His blood we are covered and saved from the death that entered in by man...We can live eternally forever with Him in Heaven and death nomore has a hold on us we are free!
Now, here is God and man whom He created went ahead of his own free will and went against Him, but still because He loved us so much and was willing that we do not suffer offered His own son as atonement for us and you ask how can you we forgive Him? Forgive Him for what? Loving us so much that He gave up the only Son He had so that we could be saved?
We here on earth are all born with a free will and based on how we use that free will the concequences are either good or bad...alot of bad happens in this world but it is not God's fault it is the fault of the people who take that free will and use it to hurt, kill and destroy..God will not force anyone to follow Him that is why its called free will my friend.
because we get to decide which way we will go and what we will do and God wants us to use our free will to come to Him and choose His ways, but in this world we live in many have turned from Him...we now live in a world where the very mention of the name of Jesus or God can get you put in jail, where babies are being killed everyday by abortion, where we teach our children that wrong is right and right is wrong, we teach our teens to use condoms instead of teaching the word of God, many countries worship other gods and turn their backs on the most High God and King of Kings. In this world we have emotional, mental and physical abuse running out of control, and yes there is murder of innocent people..but this is not His fault it is man's fault for turning their backs on Him.God is not willing that any should suffer...that is why He made a way for us to be reconciled to Him through the sacrifice of His son. Jesus Himself in obedience to the Father and out of love for us sacrificed His life so that we could live...Our Lord sees all the hurt and tradegy of this world and how man has defiled His name and turned on Him and yet He still loves with a love so strong and so big that He wants us...Yes wants us as imperfect as we are..still wants us. God isn't the one who should be forgiven for anything...it is us my friend who need to get down on our knees and beg His forgiveness.
Because we are the ones that are to blame. It is us who should beg for His mercy. He has done no wrong all our Lord has done is Love us and then waited on us to see if we would return that love.
John3:16-21 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send
His son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. and this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, less his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.
None of us is perfect and we have all fallen short, but our Merciful, loving, forgiving Father made for us a way to Him...It is us that need forgiven and should be asking Him " Father please forgive me for I have fallen short and sinned, take my life make it yours that I may learn not only to live like you but to be like you in all that I say, do and think. I love you Lord and ask this in your name Amen and Amen!
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homewardbound
Member
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- Nov 8, 2004
- Messages
- 38
I wouldn't presume to try to explain why God allows pain and suffering because there are many possible reasons.
Do you ever wonder why God allows anything good to happen? What have we done to merit the many blessings in our lives? True, bad things happen, but there are more good things that happen. Every one of us at one time or another (and for some people it's perpetual) has disobeyed, dishonored, rejected, or rebelled against God. But He remains patient and forgiving. If we got what we deserved, this world would have been wiped out long ago, and you could then breathe a sigh of relief that all the pain and suffering you see would have never come to pass. But, then again, you and I wouldn't be here to breathe that sigh, would we?
Personally, I don't see any justification for "forgiving" a perfect God who has loved us over and over and over.
Do you ever wonder why God allows anything good to happen? What have we done to merit the many blessings in our lives? True, bad things happen, but there are more good things that happen. Every one of us at one time or another (and for some people it's perpetual) has disobeyed, dishonored, rejected, or rebelled against God. But He remains patient and forgiving. If we got what we deserved, this world would have been wiped out long ago, and you could then breathe a sigh of relief that all the pain and suffering you see would have never come to pass. But, then again, you and I wouldn't be here to breathe that sigh, would we?
Personally, I don't see any justification for "forgiving" a perfect God who has loved us over and over and over.
HisFollower
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If such a thing comes to mind, then until now, you have never knew Him, but are yet carnally minded, for such a thing to think is strictly worldly, secular.
Stickz
Member
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- Sep 9, 2011
- Messages
- 465
Hey, Rad
Peace be unto you
My thoughts are a little scattered but maybe you will make some sense out of them.
Hebrews 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
Hebrews 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Hebrews 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Sin is the only thing that requires forgiveness, Rad, and I don't think that God can be charged with sin.
Let's say that your next door neighbor ( let's call him John ) cut-in a jaw-dropping-beautiful flower garden in his backyard: complete with fancy bird feeders, birdbaths, hummingbird feeders, a pond with a waterfall, a couple of fruit trees that provide the garden with the perfect amount of shade, a wood swing, and a quaint little gazebo standing right in the center of it all—a scene that is nothing short of amazing.
What is the difference between you going into John's garden ( without his knowledge ), filling a basket with the fruit from his trees and taking it into your house, and John filling a basket with the fruit from his trees and taking it into his house?
What is the difference between you ( in a jealous rage ) going into John's garden and setting it on fire, and John ( with ideas of improvement ) going out and burning down the garden?
In both of these cases, only one of you is actually committing a crime.
I have thought a lot about things similar to what you mention here. I have even let them upset me, as you seem to be doing. But throughout scripture, God often permitted suffering ( a lot of people seem to disagree with this, and that's fine by me, this is how I interpret the scriptures ) and loss to attempt to bring the people back to Him, back to righteousness.
I have pretty much always figured that God is testing us for some reason, and I'm not sure why, but I do have a couple of incomplete theories. Some have suggested that He created us with free will ( suggesting that angels do not have free will ) because He wanted a creation that would choose to worship Him; I don't buy that theory because of what we know about the angels that fell. Were they "programmed" to do so?
A loving, righteous, and just God creating a people with an eternal spirit, and a Hell for them to be punished in for eternity, for anything—no matter what the wrong—especially when they were created with the inclination to do evil things to begin with, has always been a question of mine. I've heard some suggest that it is so easy to accept Jesus and get "saved" that one deserves to go to Hell if they don't accept "the truth". I have a problem with that take on things too.
Matthew 11:23 And thou Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would ( notice that Jesus doesn't say "might" or "could" ) have remained until this day.
But we know by scripture what will become of the people of Sodom:
Jude 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Why? Because they were unfortunate enough to have been born in a time before Christ? Jesus said, that had they seen Him, they would have accepted Him. Some might say that the people of Sodom and Gomorrha were homosexual and deserve to go to hell, but their homosexuality cannot be proven with scripture, even if that were a sin above all others.
Here in Jude, it says that they were fornicators and went after strange flesh—which implies that they knew that the angels were not human. Remember how Lot bowed himself to the ground and called them lord? That wasn't how they treated all strangers that came into town as some have suggested. I don't think that you can find another instance of it anywhere in scripture. I believe that Lot knew that they were angels, and the people of Sodom did too.
Ezekiel 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
I don't know about some other countries, but in the United States we don't punish people with life in prison, or death, unless they have committed a crime that we deem worthy of such punishment. Are we more righteous than God? I trust that there must be a good reason for God to do the things that He does.
Think about Him asking Abraham to sacrifice his own son. Many unbelievers see that as reason enough not to believe: "What kind of loving God could do such a thing?" But, when you can see the story in the right light, it doesn't seem so bad. In the wrong light, it looks horrific.
I am not going to tell you that you should not question things. People that aren't looking for anything are not likely to find anything. Some might tell you that you should just have faith, even though you don't understand. I can't think of one person in the Bible that believed in God with absolutely no reason whatsoever. Can you? Some might say that that is what faith is: believing with no reason. Perhaps.
Evil could be in the eye of the beholder:
As you walk out of a store, in the middle of town, a man darts past you on the sidewalk. You watch as the man quickly runs up to a car that is parked on the side of the road, pulls a small child ( kicking and screaming ) out of the vehicle and proceeds to run back in your direction, the child squirming furiously in his arms. Your first instinct is to clock this man—and you do. You grab the child as the man slumps to the sidewalk, dazed. Seconds later, the car that the child was in explodes. In the next few minutes ( as you watch the burning remains of the car, trying to understand the events that just took place in front of you ) you also learn that the man that you just struck is a police officer.
Implying that God is doing something wrong or evil just because people are dying may not be the best way to look at things. A seed has to die before it becomes something useful, better. That is the way that God created things. One day it will probably make perfect sense to us.
Peace be unto you
My thoughts are a little scattered but maybe you will make some sense out of them.
Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
Hebrews 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.
Hebrews 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Hebrews 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Sin is the only thing that requires forgiveness, Rad, and I don't think that God can be charged with sin.
Let's say that your next door neighbor ( let's call him John ) cut-in a jaw-dropping-beautiful flower garden in his backyard: complete with fancy bird feeders, birdbaths, hummingbird feeders, a pond with a waterfall, a couple of fruit trees that provide the garden with the perfect amount of shade, a wood swing, and a quaint little gazebo standing right in the center of it all—a scene that is nothing short of amazing.
What is the difference between you going into John's garden ( without his knowledge ), filling a basket with the fruit from his trees and taking it into your house, and John filling a basket with the fruit from his trees and taking it into his house?
What is the difference between you ( in a jealous rage ) going into John's garden and setting it on fire, and John ( with ideas of improvement ) going out and burning down the garden?
In both of these cases, only one of you is actually committing a crime.
I have thought a lot about things similar to what you mention here. I have even let them upset me, as you seem to be doing. But throughout scripture, God often permitted suffering ( a lot of people seem to disagree with this, and that's fine by me, this is how I interpret the scriptures ) and loss to attempt to bring the people back to Him, back to righteousness.
I have pretty much always figured that God is testing us for some reason, and I'm not sure why, but I do have a couple of incomplete theories. Some have suggested that He created us with free will ( suggesting that angels do not have free will ) because He wanted a creation that would choose to worship Him; I don't buy that theory because of what we know about the angels that fell. Were they "programmed" to do so?
A loving, righteous, and just God creating a people with an eternal spirit, and a Hell for them to be punished in for eternity, for anything—no matter what the wrong—especially when they were created with the inclination to do evil things to begin with, has always been a question of mine. I've heard some suggest that it is so easy to accept Jesus and get "saved" that one deserves to go to Hell if they don't accept "the truth". I have a problem with that take on things too.
Matthew 11:23 And thou Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would ( notice that Jesus doesn't say "might" or "could" ) have remained until this day.
But we know by scripture what will become of the people of Sodom:
Jude 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Why? Because they were unfortunate enough to have been born in a time before Christ? Jesus said, that had they seen Him, they would have accepted Him. Some might say that the people of Sodom and Gomorrha were homosexual and deserve to go to hell, but their homosexuality cannot be proven with scripture, even if that were a sin above all others.
Here in Jude, it says that they were fornicators and went after strange flesh—which implies that they knew that the angels were not human. Remember how Lot bowed himself to the ground and called them lord? That wasn't how they treated all strangers that came into town as some have suggested. I don't think that you can find another instance of it anywhere in scripture. I believe that Lot knew that they were angels, and the people of Sodom did too.
Ezekiel 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
I don't know about some other countries, but in the United States we don't punish people with life in prison, or death, unless they have committed a crime that we deem worthy of such punishment. Are we more righteous than God? I trust that there must be a good reason for God to do the things that He does.
Think about Him asking Abraham to sacrifice his own son. Many unbelievers see that as reason enough not to believe: "What kind of loving God could do such a thing?" But, when you can see the story in the right light, it doesn't seem so bad. In the wrong light, it looks horrific.
I am not going to tell you that you should not question things. People that aren't looking for anything are not likely to find anything. Some might tell you that you should just have faith, even though you don't understand. I can't think of one person in the Bible that believed in God with absolutely no reason whatsoever. Can you? Some might say that that is what faith is: believing with no reason. Perhaps.
Evil could be in the eye of the beholder:
As you walk out of a store, in the middle of town, a man darts past you on the sidewalk. You watch as the man quickly runs up to a car that is parked on the side of the road, pulls a small child ( kicking and screaming ) out of the vehicle and proceeds to run back in your direction, the child squirming furiously in his arms. Your first instinct is to clock this man—and you do. You grab the child as the man slumps to the sidewalk, dazed. Seconds later, the car that the child was in explodes. In the next few minutes ( as you watch the burning remains of the car, trying to understand the events that just took place in front of you ) you also learn that the man that you just struck is a police officer.
I agree with you agua.
Implying that God is doing something wrong or evil just because people are dying may not be the best way to look at things. A seed has to die before it becomes something useful, better. That is the way that God created things. One day it will probably make perfect sense to us.
lokidervish
Member
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2011
- Messages
- 10
Lets try to be a bit more direct in this - for one thing you neighbor isn't supposed to be omnipotent and omnipresent, if he had been then when he created the garden he would have known what was going to become of it - correct? In this line of thought the neighbor would have created the garden only to see evil come out of it. I don't know exactly what this means but you have to wonder why someone would create something only to destroy it.
just a thought.
end of line
Hello all.
God creates through love, God is love.
Eden was created with love.
Adam and Eve were given life to enjoy, in love.
Love and goodness were rejected in favor of personal ambition.
Hence, the World is full of selfishness and evil.
Does God not act in love in the first instance because evil
will dominate. No, God responds yet again in love giving
His son's life for us. Love always perseveres never fails.
Jesus will create in love and Jesus will judge in love.
Why? Because Jesus loves you Lokidervish so much.
Jesus wants you to have eternal life that is why He
created in the first place.
How would we know what real divine love was unless
we knew Jesus. How would we know what love was
unless we lived in darkness, hating and killing one another.
Love is good, Eden was good, in Jesus all is good.
God creates through love, God is love.
Eden was created with love.
Adam and Eve were given life to enjoy, in love.
Love and goodness were rejected in favor of personal ambition.
Hence, the World is full of selfishness and evil.
Does God not act in love in the first instance because evil
will dominate. No, God responds yet again in love giving
His son's life for us. Love always perseveres never fails.
Jesus will create in love and Jesus will judge in love.
Why? Because Jesus loves you Lokidervish so much.
Jesus wants you to have eternal life that is why He
created in the first place.
How would we know what real divine love was unless
we knew Jesus. How would we know what love was
unless we lived in darkness, hating and killing one another.
Love is good, Eden was good, in Jesus all is good.
God is not responsible for the atrocities you mention.
The converse being that if the world population had/were to accept the Salvation offered by God, through the 'atoneing' death of Jesus on Calvery, much of what you mention would be/have been, unknown.
Scripture informs "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked....who can know it?" The word decietful there, embraces the meaning 'fraudulent' 'crooked' 'polluted' 'demonic'
Jer 17:9.
The story of human life in scripture embraces all the inhumanity of man against man, as you mention.
History records Jesus came. The reckoning of human time was changed, but the cause for which Jesus came is incomplete.
Looking over the world today, there is no hope for mankind. Hope for men remains alone in the sacrifice of the cross, the shedding of the sinless blood of Jesus
"He became sin for us, who in Himself knew no sin"...
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We as humans will never fully understand God. If your a believer, dying will answer these questions. It comes down to, in the end nothing else will matter on this earth except for what you did to serve and honor Christ Jesus the Lord. We only see parts of the puzzle on earth. God constructed the puzzle. He knows how and why it started. The beauty of life is all things will be explained and understood when it's over.
Stickz
Member
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2011
- Messages
- 465
Peace be unto you
I'm sure that you have heard the saying, "One man's trash is another man's treasure." What you see as evil, God may not. No offense, but don't you think it a little arrogant to assume that you have enough intelligence to question the motives of a being such as God?
If there is a God ( I speak as a man, for the sake of the conversation ) and He has the power to create all that He is said to have created: if He also decides to turn right around and destroy it, who are we ( His creation ) to question what He does? One day it will all probably make perfect sense to us. Right now, we are asked to trust Him. And I am trying to do that.
Sorry for the imperfections in my parable.
