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How Much Did the OT Jews Understand?

Dylan569

Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2024
Messages
186
If we did not have the New Testament to teach us, if we lived in OT times, would we really understand prophecy, like reading the OT prophecies as clearly as reading newspaper. If you did not know the NT, would you understand the following prophecies clearly?

A voice cries out: “In the wilderness prepare the way of the LORD; make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Every valley shall be lifted up, and every mountain and hill be made low; the uneven ground shall become level, and the rough places a plain. Then the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together, for the mouth of the LORD has spoken.”
Isa 40:3-5 NRSVue
See, I am sending my messenger to prepare the way before me, and the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to his temple. The messenger of the covenant in whom you delight—indeed, he is coming, says the LORD of hosts.
Mal 3:1 NRSVue
See, I will send you the prophet Elijah before the great and terrible day of the LORD comes. He will turn the hearts of parents to their children and the hearts of children to their parents, so that I will not come and strike the land with a curse.
Mal 4:5-6 NRSVue

Many OT prophecies would be understood as a coming "anointed one" who was to suffer and die for his people. The origin of a future leader was shown to be from ancient days and to come from Bethlehem. But when we read the fulfillment of OT prophecies recorded in the NT, they seem to be prophecies written in a way so Jews would know Jesus was, the Messiah; which, most Jews seemed to reject. They were not written so the Jews could read the prophecies, and see the events unfolding in the years before the Virgin birth spoken of in Isa. 7:14, and know to be expecting him. The disciples asked Jesus when the destruction of the temple and the end of the age were to happen, and Jesus listed the signs they would see, and know that it was to happen within that generation that would lead up to 70 AD. These are recorded in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21. Was there a similar list of events prophesied in the OT that would precede the coming of the Messiah the first time?

Doesn't the New Testament indicate that the approach of the 1st advent of Christ was not truly understood by the Jews, not even the prophets themselves!

“And now, brothers, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did also your rulers. In this way God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, that his Messiah would suffer." (Acts 3:17-18) *There were prophesies describing what happened at the 1st advent, but signs and events to look for leading up to that event.

"Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace intended for you made careful search and inquiry, inquiring about the time and circumstances that the Spirit of Christ within them indicated when it testified in advance to the sufferings intended for Christ and the subsequent glory. It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in regard to the things that have now been announced to you through those who brought you good news by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look!" (1Pe 1:10-12 NRSVue)

The New Testament makes clear that there would be no signs of the return of Christ, He would come suddenly, like a thief in the night; not foreseen by signs leading up to it. The OT gave no such signs of the coming of the Messiah the first time, as in Matthew 24 for 70 AD; and in like manner, the NT gives no signs to look for in the 2nd coming of Christ; not as Jesus gave signs for the coming destruction of 70 AD. The NT describes "the last day" in the resurrection and judgment, but we cannot know when that "last day" happens, until IT HAPPENS.

Shouldn't this cause us to be cautious about wasting our time talking about signs and events, and focus on living out the gospel of Jesus Christ, and being prepared for that day when Christ returns. Looking for the return of Christ at the 2nd advent does not mean studying for signs of his approaching return.
 
I really enjoyed reading your approach and outlook concerning the signs of the end times.

I remember when I was much younger and
the idea of end times really sparked my imagination,

I believe that many or most Christians and even some Non - Christians
go through this stage where they are really focused on the world that is falling apart around them and when discovering the warnings in scriptures their mind begins to try to put the pieces together.
 
I really enjoyed reading your approach and outlook concerning the signs of the end times.

I remember when I was much younger and
the idea of end times really sparked my imagination,

I believe that many or most Christians and even some Non - Christians
go through this stage where they are really focused on the world that is falling apart around them and when discovering the warnings in scriptures their mind begins to try to put the pieces together.
I believe that church history shows that prophecy is really not that clear in the Scriptures. Why else would there have been the Amillennial, Premillennial and Postmillennial positions all being held by solid men of God out of the past that we view as 'orthodox' in the faith. The Dispensationalist form of Premillennialism came about in the 19th century and today some quite heated debates can be found between the brethren, and I am guilty of being too harsh and critical in my views in prophecy. I have to ask forgiveness for that.

You seemed to have had a faith journey on prophecy, as have I. UP to about age 30 I held to Dispensationalism and the 1917 Scofield Bible was my study Bible. I then went into a long period of time where I studied amongst the Amil, Postmil and Historic Premil positions. I actually ended up in a rare, and minority position on these topics. I now hold to New Covenant Theology, with the 1646 First London Confession of Faith expressing what I believe. In eschatology, I am a gospel powered postmillennialist. I put that out so readers know my understanding of God's word, my perspective. I find myself so often reading an OP or reply in a thread and I wonder, where on earth did this religious idea come from? What denomination or faith group holds to that??
 
also, the picture that God paints for us in the Book Of Revelation may be a totally different outlook of the reality that is transpiring in the spirit world and in the battle in Heavenly Places - what God has revealed to mankind in the scriptures may be a very limited and simplistic understanding with very, very limited details in the grand scale of everything
 
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