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I am confused...

smartammo

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2022
Messages
19
I grew up listening to Christian values through my small church where I got baptised and have been listening to so many sermons through internet and reading books.

But I do have a very basic question that is kind of making my beliefs struggle a bit.

Jesus's teachings talk about Peace and love, giving to the poor, helping the needy. Old testament talks about judgement, sinless, righteousness, being good in the books of the God Lord. I am seeing Ukraine war and I can see that it is wrong under the teachings of Jesus. But I also see devout christians who are supporting the war and killigns of people. It feels like Christians are living under the old testament and not under the teachings of Jesus. What do I choose? It's not tough for me to change my mentality, but I want to know which is the truth.

Pls help.
 
I grew up listening to Christian values through my small church where I got baptised and have been listening to so many sermons through internet and reading books.

But I do have a very basic question that is kind of making my beliefs struggle a bit.

Jesus's teachings talk about Peace and love, giving to the poor, helping the needy. Old testament talks about judgement, sinless, righteousness, being good in the books of the God Lord. I am seeing Ukraine war and I can see that it is wrong under the teachings of Jesus. But I also see devout christians who are supporting the war and killigns of people. It feels like Christians are living under the old testament and not under the teachings of Jesus. What do I choose? It's not tough for me to change my mentality, but I want to know which is the truth.

Pls help.

Most importantly a true Christian, or disciple of Christ, would never support the injury to another human! Secondly the Lord has said that "ye shall hear of wars, and rumors of
wars, but let your heart be not troubled, for THESE THINGS MUST NEEDS BE."

War has usually, in this last century, led to a larger cooperation between countries. Germany and Japan being prime examples. In the end the earths countries will have to be
closely aligned under one quasi government in order to install the mark of the beast (government).
So in other words these wars are truly necessary to move mankind to a more cooperative position so that they may become one in mind and purpose. Peace and Prosperity,
which is what the last and final great kingdom of men, on earth, is founded upon.

There are so called Christians, in name only, that have not the Holy Ghost, if you do then ask Him to show you and teach you. If not then ask the Father for His comforter and
then be prepared to be separated from all you think you know as well as most people you think are your brothers and sisters.
 
The Bible is a “war Book” in True reality. Dig down and close out every church, Christian thought patterns and news casters And start reading your Bible, beginning with “Genesis and don’t stop until you reach the last Verse in The Book Of The Revelation of “Jesus Christ”! And don’t used a weak or Trump up Translation or a Translation of a want to be Bible or paraphrase bible.

Note: pre 1984 NIV, pre 1990 KJV, pre 1980 ASV or RSV translation and then see how things look.

Your call.
Book 1,2,3,4,5…..ff to 66. And with a good and excellent dictionary pre 1960 and a excellent bible dictionary or a set of “ISBE”s. “international Standard Bible Encyclopedias

After you have done that, See what kind of Outlook you will have.

Read the Bible as one continuing Books
 
but I want to know which is the truth.
Jesus is the truth.
The word of God is the truth.
Obeying the commandments of God is truthful obedience.
There are worldly Christians and there are spiritual Christians.
Read the epistles to the Spirit-filled church and learn what the apostles teach.
 
I grew up listening to Christian values through my small church where I got baptised and have been listening to so many sermons through internet and reading books.

But I do have a very basic question that is kind of making my beliefs struggle a bit.

Jesus's teachings talk about Peace and love, giving to the poor, helping the needy. Old testament talks about judgement, sinless, righteousness, being good in the books of the God Lord. I am seeing Ukraine war and I can see that it is wrong under the teachings of Jesus. But I also see devout christians who are supporting the war and killigns of people. It feels like Christians are living under the old testament and not under the teachings of Jesus. What do I choose? It's not tough for me to change my mentality, but I want to know which is the truth.

Pls help.
The use of violence is strictly forbidden to the Christian. This is clear from Scripture and the early church. The first Christians would not use violence for any reason, not even to save their lives. Around the 5th century a guy named Augustine penned a work advocating a just war theory. He was influential in the Catholic Church and because of it Christians began to see war as ok. It's not. It hasn't ever been in the Christian faith.

You will find all kinds of arguments made by Christian's in an attempt to justify war, but they are just that, attempts to just that which is forbidden.
 
First of all, Jesus followed the law perfectly, like no other.
But, when He died and rose again, He ushered in the New Testament (Covenant).

Down the eons, God has issued many Covenants and each subsequent Covenant superceeds the previous.

There are a lot of good things to learn from the Old Covenant ( 10 Comandments for example) But we live under the New Covenant and should follow Jesus!
 
Rom 13:3 For civil authorities don’t intimidate those who are doing good, but those who are doing evil. So do what is right and you’ll never need to fear those in authority. They will commend you for your good citizenship.
Rom 13:4 Those in authority are God’s servants for the good of society. But if you break the law, you have reason to be alarmed, for they are God’s agents of punishment to bring criminals to justice. Why do you think they carry weapons? (TPT)

Seven Facts About Human Governments:

1. They were instituted by God (Gen 9:1-7; Rom 13:1-6; 1Pe 2:13-17).

2. Their purpose was to execute criminals and enforce law and order among people (Rom 13:1-6; 1Pe 2:13-17; Gen_9:6; Isa 11:4-9; Isa 65:20; Dan 2:21; Dan 4:17-25; Dan 5:21).

3. It is the duty of Christians and others to help establish and support human government for the preservation of society and promotion of the highest good of man (Rom 13:1; 1Pe 2:13-17).

4. Governments were instituted to govern by force and to punish, not only local and individual criminals, but also universal and national criminals. This includes execution of war to put down criminal nations as well as criminal individuals (Rom 13:1-5; 1Pe 2:13-17; Dan 2:21; Dan 4:17-25; Dan 5:21).

5. Christians are not to leave popular government up to the ungodly. To neglect good government is to neglect the salvation of souls. Promotion of public and private good is one of the greatest means of saving souls (Rom 13:1-6; 1Ti 1:8-10). Christians should vote and enter public life to promote good government so that the gospel will not be hindered and stamped out. Both reason and experience, as well as the Bible make this obligatory upon all. Since government is necessary for the best good of all, it is the duty of every Christian to help bring about the best government to secure this end.

6. Human governments, therefore, are not founded upon the arbitrary will of God, but upon the needs of humanity in securing their highest good. If in a small family, law and penalties are needed, how much more are they needed in communities, states, and nations. If government needs reforming, then let the Christians bring about such reforms. If they require nothing contrary to God, moral obligation, and the conscience, and if they meet the needs of those governed, they should be perpetuated (Rom 13:1-6).

7. Upon the grounds of the best public interest, it becomes the duty of human governments to use all necessary means to attain this end. It is absurd to believe that rulers have the right to govern and not the right to use the necessary means to carry on good government. Such error or belief causes many Christians to object to the right of capital punishment, the right to deal with mobs, to suppress rebellions, and to make wars on criminal nations. When a person sells himself to destroy the best good of others, it becomes necessary to take him from the society he seeks to destroy. In such cases it becomes necessary to deal with individuals, and nations to enforce law and order for the best good of all. It must be both the right and the duty of government and all its subjects to use every necessary and possible means to suppress rebellion and enforce respect for law and order. Rulers are God’s ministers to execute God’s wrath upon the ungodly and preserve moral law and government for the good of all (Rom 13:1-6; 1Pe 2:13-17).

(From Dake's Bible)
 
Rom 13:3 For civil authorities don’t intimidate those who are doing good, but those who are doing evil. So do what is right and you’ll never need to fear those in authority. They will commend you for your good citizenship.
Rom 13:4 Those in authority are God’s servants for the good of society. But if you break the law, you have reason to be alarmed, for they are God’s agents of punishment to bring criminals to justice. Why do you think they carry weapons? (TPT)

Seven Facts About Human Governments:

1. They were instituted by God (Gen 9:1-7; Rom 13:1-6; 1Pe 2:13-17).

2. Their purpose was to execute criminals and enforce law and order among people (Rom 13:1-6; 1Pe 2:13-17; Gen_9:6; Isa 11:4-9; Isa 65:20; Dan 2:21; Dan 4:17-25; Dan 5:21).

3. It is the duty of Christians and others to help establish and support human government for the preservation of society and promotion of the highest good of man (Rom 13:1; 1Pe 2:13-17).

4. Governments were instituted to govern by force and to punish, not only local and individual criminals, but also universal and national criminals. This includes execution of war to put down criminal nations as well as criminal individuals (Rom 13:1-5; 1Pe 2:13-17; Dan 2:21; Dan 4:17-25; Dan 5:21).

5. Christians are not to leave popular government up to the ungodly. To neglect good government is to neglect the salvation of souls. Promotion of public and private good is one of the greatest means of saving souls (Rom 13:1-6; 1Ti 1:8-10). Christians should vote and enter public life to promote good government so that the gospel will not be hindered and stamped out. Both reason and experience, as well as the Bible make this obligatory upon all. Since government is necessary for the best good of all, it is the duty of every Christian to help bring about the best government to secure this end.

6. Human governments, therefore, are not founded upon the arbitrary will of God, but upon the needs of humanity in securing their highest good. If in a small family, law and penalties are needed, how much more are they needed in communities, states, and nations. If government needs reforming, then let the Christians bring about such reforms. If they require nothing contrary to God, moral obligation, and the conscience, and if they meet the needs of those governed, they should be perpetuated (Rom 13:1-6).

7. Upon the grounds of the best public interest, it becomes the duty of human governments to use all necessary means to attain this end. It is absurd to believe that rulers have the right to govern and not the right to use the necessary means to carry on good government. Such error or belief causes many Christians to object to the right of capital punishment, the right to deal with mobs, to suppress rebellions, and to make wars on criminal nations. When a person sells himself to destroy the best good of others, it becomes necessary to take him from the society he seeks to destroy. In such cases it becomes necessary to deal with individuals, and nations to enforce law and order for the best good of all. It must be both the right and the duty of government and all its subjects to use every necessary and possible means to suppress rebellion and enforce respect for law and order. Rulers are God’s ministers to execute God’s wrath upon the ungodly and preserve moral law and government for the good of all (Rom 13:1-6; 1Pe 2:13-17).

(From Dake's Bible)
Eventually, the New World Order will come after the rapture event when a third of the earth gets burned up and the mark of the beast system where great & small has to have in order to buy & sell or die. It is then when the government is evil that Christians do not have to follow the ordinance thereof.

There are some evils in our society that Christians are not aware of that they should not submit to'

Like swearing on the Bible to tell the whole truth when the court can fine you in contempt for not answering questions in a yes or no answer even though that is not the whole truth. Surely God cannot help you then and in respect to His words, God cannot help any ne keep their oath when they have to do all that proceeds out of their mouths Numbers 30:2 That is why believers are warned not to make hasty vows les God destroys the works of your hands as your vow causes your flesh to sin when you break it. Ecclesiastes 5:4-7

That is why Jesus warned believers not to make a commitment or a promise to God to be good or to do good like following Him when we are to rest in Him and all His Words to us that He will help us to follow Him by faith in Him alone.

Matthew 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.... 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:... 11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Same thing with the added extra marriage vows from the couples' to God's covenant of marriage. God is the One joining them together, not their vows. Besides that love is not boastful and how can any one boast of their love for what they will do for tomorrow? That is way worse than just making plans for tomorrow.

James 5:12 But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

James 4:13 Go to now, ye that say, To day or to morrow we will go into such a city, and continue there a year, and buy and sell, and get gain: 14 Whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. 15 For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that. 16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil. 17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

One cannot say if the Lord will, we shall keep our vows, because His will is for you to not make those vows but rely on Him for the love they need to love one another ad so again the just shall live by faith.

And for the service in public office, what swearing in oath has ever kept a politician honest or at the very least, keep the promises he or she said they will do?

Not only that but Christians in Freemasons falsely swear in their initiation oath and thereafter for each degree and on the Bible too while Freemasons wink at them saying "Don't worry. It is just a saying, we will not enforce that" in regards to the penalties that will be inflicted for any Lodge member to reveal anything from the Lodge. Not to mention the rule for all Lodges not to mention Jesus Christ at all in the Lodge this denying Him before men.

Can a Christian deny Him before Masons in the lodge and yet believe it is okay as long as they confess Him outside the Lodge? No way.

2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

So it is one or the other. A Christian cannot do both. The same about money; you either love God or money. You cannot do both.

Jesus can forgive and set Christians free from those yokes of bondages to place their confidence in the Lord Jesus Christ to finish His work in them to His glory under the New Covenant to us to bless their marriage as well as their walk with Him by faith alone, but with Freemasonry, the men need His help to leave it too and not just be set free from those yokes of bondages..
 
All of God's laws "precepts" meaning, "pre" (before), "cept" (set) preempt any laws of man.
 
Jesus's teachings talk about Peace and love, giving to the poor, helping the needy.
Galatians 5:14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, in the, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Romans 13:8 Owe no one anything, save to love one another: for who loveth the other hath fulfilled the law.
9 For Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, in the Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to the neighbour: love therefore is fulfillment of law.

Luke 10:29 But he, desiring to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour? ...
... 36 Which of these three, thinkest thou, proved neighbour unto him that fell among the robbers?
37 And he said, He who showed mercy on him. And Jesus said to him, Go, and do THOU likewise.
 
I grew up listening to Christian values through my small church where I got baptised and have been listening to so many sermons through internet and reading books.

But I do have a very basic question that is kind of making my beliefs struggle a bit.

Jesus's teachings talk about Peace and love, giving to the poor, helping the needy. Old testament talks about judgement, sinless, righteousness, being good in the books of the God Lord. I am seeing Ukraine war and I can see that it is wrong under the teachings of Jesus. But I also see devout christians who are supporting the war and killigns of people. It feels like Christians are living under the old testament and not under the teachings of Jesus. What do I choose? It's not tough for me to change my mentality, but I want to know which is the truth.

Pls help.
Follow Jesus & His words. Trust the Lord Jesus Christ to help you to follow Him in any decision you make. Indeed, trust Him to correct your path if you make the wrong decision.

Proverbs 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.

Jeremiah went through the same thing.

Jeremiah 10:22 Behold, the noise of the bruit is come, and a great commotion out of the north country, to make the cities of Judah desolate, and a den of dragons. 23 O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps. 24 O Lord, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing. 25 Pour out thy fury upon the heathen that know thee not, and upon the families that call not on thy name: for they have eaten up Jacob, and devoured him, and consumed him, and have made his habitation desolate.

That is for the Lord to do, not on Jeremiah to do.

You may find Jesus's words here for you today.

Matthew 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

John 16:1These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended. 2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. 3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me. 4 But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.

Pray for guidance and trust Jesus Christ in being your Good Shepherd to direct your thoughts, words, and actions in the way He wants you to go, even entrust your ways unto the Lord and He shall bring it to pass.
 
You will find all kinds of arguments made by Christian's in an attempt to justify war, but they are just that, attempts to just that which is forbidden.
This is very true. But old testament is full of wars where God played a bigger role. That's what I am not able to digest/understand.
 
Rom 13:3 For civil authorities don’t intimidate those who are doing good, but those who are doing evil. So do what is right and you’ll never need to fear those in authority. They will commend you for your good citizenship.
Rom 13:4 Those in authority are God’s servants for the good of society. But if you break the law, you have reason to be alarmed, for they are God’s agents of punishment to bring criminals to justice. Why do you think they carry weapons? (TPT)

Seven Facts About Human Governments:

1. They were instituted by God (Gen 9:1-7; Rom 13:1-6; 1Pe 2:13-17).

2. Their purpose was to execute criminals and enforce law and order among people (Rom 13:1-6; 1Pe 2:13-17; Gen_9:6; Isa 11:4-9; Isa 65:20; Dan 2:21; Dan 4:17-25; Dan 5:21).

3. It is the duty of Christians and others to help establish and support human government for the preservation of society and promotion of the highest good of man (Rom 13:1; 1Pe 2:13-17).

4. Governments were instituted to govern by force and to punish, not only local and individual criminals, but also universal and national criminals. This includes execution of war to put down criminal nations as well as criminal individuals (Rom 13:1-5; 1Pe 2:13-17; Dan 2:21; Dan 4:17-25; Dan 5:21).

5. Christians are not to leave popular government up to the ungodly. To neglect good government is to neglect the salvation of souls. Promotion of public and private good is one of the greatest means of saving souls (Rom 13:1-6; 1Ti 1:8-10). Christians should vote and enter public life to promote good government so that the gospel will not be hindered and stamped out. Both reason and experience, as well as the Bible make this obligatory upon all. Since government is necessary for the best good of all, it is the duty of every Christian to help bring about the best government to secure this end.

6. Human governments, therefore, are not founded upon the arbitrary will of God, but upon the needs of humanity in securing their highest good. If in a small family, law and penalties are needed, how much more are they needed in communities, states, and nations. If government needs reforming, then let the Christians bring about such reforms. If they require nothing contrary to God, moral obligation, and the conscience, and if they meet the needs of those governed, they should be perpetuated (Rom 13:1-6).

7. Upon the grounds of the best public interest, it becomes the duty of human governments to use all necessary means to attain this end. It is absurd to believe that rulers have the right to govern and not the right to use the necessary means to carry on good government. Such error or belief causes many Christians to object to the right of capital punishment, the right to deal with mobs, to suppress rebellions, and to make wars on criminal nations. When a person sells himself to destroy the best good of others, it becomes necessary to take him from the society he seeks to destroy. In such cases it becomes necessary to deal with individuals, and nations to enforce law and order for the best good of all. It must be both the right and the duty of government and all its subjects to use every necessary and possible means to suppress rebellion and enforce respect for law and order. Rulers are God’s ministers to execute God’s wrath upon the ungodly and preserve moral law and government for the good of all (Rom 13:1-6; 1Pe 2:13-17).

(From Dake's Bible)
This is a completely different set of insights. #6 & #7 not sure if makes sense as we are not in old testament rule right?!
 
This is very true. But old testament is full of wars where God played a bigger role. That's what I am not able to digest/understand.
Look at Gods elect ,Israel, in a spiritual sense. The elect=Israel, the enemies of Israel are the things of the world, especially false religion. Israels fights with its enemies are a physical
allegory of the elects spiritual fight today. Our weapons are not carnal/physical, They are spiritual in a spiritual warfare to the pulling down of strongholds in our mind that the enemy has
in us that keep us from understanding the whole truth and nothing but the truth, even to bringing every thought into/under the obedience of Christ lest we are led astray by the thoughts.
 
I grew up listening to Christian values through my small church where I got baptised and have been listening to so many sermons through internet and reading books.

But I do have a very basic question that is kind of making my beliefs struggle a bit.

Jesus's teachings talk about Peace and love, giving to the poor, helping the needy. Old testament talks about judgement, sinless, righteousness, being good in the books of the God Lord. I am seeing Ukraine war and I can see that it is wrong under the teachings of Jesus. But I also see devout christians who are supporting the war and killigns of people. It feels like Christians are living under the old testament and not under the teachings of Jesus. What do I choose? It's not tough for me to change my mentality, but I want to know which is the truth.

Pls help.
How do you know they are devout Christians?
 
Look at Gods elect ,Israel, in a spiritual sense. The elect=Israel, the enemies of Israel are the things of the world, especially false religion. Israels fights with its enemies are a physical
allegory of the elects spiritual fight today. Our weapons are not carnal/physical, They are spiritual in a spiritual warfare to the pulling down of strongholds in our mind that the enemy has
in us that keep us from understanding the whole truth and nothing but the truth, even to bringing every thought into/under the obedience of Christ lest we are led astray by the thoughts.
We live under the New Testament ushered in by Jesus.
Understanding and reading the Old Testament is very important but the New Testament or Covenant superceeds the Old!
 
This is very true. But old testament is full of wars where God played a bigger role. That's what I am not able to digest/understand.
I think the big difference is that in the OT God gave Israel the Law as a way to govern a nation. Jesus, on the other hand leads His people to peace.

In the OT God was judging nations and used Israel are His hand of Justice. It would show Israel God's justice. But, it would also show all of us Gods justice too.
 
Brother smart, there is a massive difference between the 2 Covenants here is the best example for you to consider. First lets us look at the Old. (2 Kings 1:12) Now the NEW!!!! Here the disciples remembered 2 Kings 1:12 as James and John wanted to do the same!! (Luke 9:53-56!!) The Old covenant has no grace in it, you either follow the law perfectly or your perish!! Under our Jesus GRACE rules for all!! The spirit of man as you know is far different then Holy Spirit! So, hope this helps you to understand just how important the New is to the Old!
 
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