I got this problem in my church..

[tranquility]

I got this problem in my church


Our Pastor is up in his eighties, and his
SON is taking over the church
when his DAD dies.

The problem is that the younger man insults
people openly alot
he drives people away before they have a
chance to see the love and respect
from everyone else.

(our church really is a wonderful place)

I believe in admonishing people when they
get out of line, but i think it art to be done
with love and certainly not a public display
for all to hear (ACCORDING TO MATTHEW 18)

These poor people in the church are so
offended and humiliated
they never want to come back

I know The Bible says,

1 Timothy 5:1-2
1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a
father; and the younger men as brethren;

1 Timothy 5:19
19 Against an elder receive not an
accusation, but before two or
three witnesses.

Proverbs 18:19
19 A brother offended is harder to be won
than a strong city: and their contentions
are like the bars of a castle.

AND I KNOW IT SAYS DON'T BE EASILY OFFENDED TOO.
BUT IT'S HARD NOT TO GET OFFENDED AT THIS GUY.


HE'S BECOMING LIKE A DICTATOR!
THERE'S NO VOTING ON CHURCH ISSUES, OR
HOW THINGS ARE DONE
WHATEVER HE SAYS GOES


AND NO ONE WILL SPEAK UP PROBABLY
FOR THE SAME REASON AS ME...
THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO

THE PASTOR LETS HIM GET AWAY WITH IT BECAUSE
HE'S GOING TO BE THE NEW PASTOR SOME DAY.


I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE IN CHURCH
WHO FEELS THIS WAY

What can be done here
I don't want to
rebuke an Elder and sin myself,

But something got to be done
this guy is destroying our church

I really don't know what to do here help!

 

[Crossseeker]

Casting all your cares upon Jesus for He cares for you

Peace be unto you

God is putting on my heart all these verses and some of the possibilites that may be occuring at your DENOMINATION...notice
i did NOT say true Church

1 - It could be that your pastor is a modern day false prophet, who is self deceived and seeking to draw away followers after himself.
If that is the case you owe him nothing, but to love him.
For God told The True Apostle Paul, "Owe no man any thing but to love him."

A true Christian's ONLY HOPE TRULY AND FOREVER is (1PETER5:7)
TO CAST ALL OF OURSELVES AND ALL OF OUR CONCERNS TRULY AND FOREVER WHOLEHEARTEDLY into The Truly Merciful Arms of God and Our Lord and Savior JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF, Who truly dwells WITHIN (Zephaniah 3:17) our human spirits, in the TRUE HOLY OF HOLIES, waiting for us to TURN WITHIN Joel 2:12 With ALL OUR HEART FOREVERMORE, AND WITH FASTING (from the outer evil practices of the world), and with weeping, and with mourning.

First of all dude, by God's Grace alone forever, I truly tell you, that YOU have got to Let Go and Let God.

1 - Jesus does all the saving, and correcting of others, according to His Truly Perfect Timing and according to His Truly Perfect Way
We should pray for our erring brother(s) to be corrected, but pray like Jeremiah and King David, "In wrath (Lord), remember Mercy, lest you bring me to nothing."

2 - God and Jesus only truly require of us 2 things

A - full trust or full RESTING IN JESUS HIMSELF WITHIN us,
every moment and forever for every thing that worries us. (Acts16:30,31) (Proverbs3:5,6) (Isaiah26:3,4) (Proverbs23:26) (1Peter5:7) (Psalms46:10)

God tells all true believers through King David in Psalms 46:10 to
Be still (Hebrew word for still translates more accurately to release) wholeheartedly and forever and truly into the merciful Arms of Jesus

God tells all true believers also through Peter in 1 Peter 5:7,
"Casting (releasing) all your care upon Jesus (within) for He (Jesus) cares for you.

It Is Written, in Proverbs 15:3, "The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good."

Just remember, that God and Jesus Himself truly know the hearts of all, and truly see all the good and bad going on in the world 24-7 and is fully able to deal with wicked sinners either (God forbid) justly without His Mercy, or Mercifully according to His Mercy, according to each person's eternal choice.

May God and Jesus keep us truly and wholeheartedly and forever perfecting close to Jesus forever and save and purify and keep us forevermore safe in the Truly Merciful Arms of Jesus, Our only Lord and Savior and God and King and All in All. Amen.

Read 1 Samuel 2:27-End...What is happenning in your church if true,
is truly not good...and it reminds me of the story of Eli and his 2 wicked sons of belial sons of the devil.
Hopefully, that is not the case...and we must pray that if it is a young carnal Christian who is totally CLUELESS to the evil self love and evil self will that he has not surrendered to The Lord to little by little purify in His Arms of Perfect Love Jesus

but we must let God take care of His Holy Business of being God

and we must do WHOLEHEARTEDLY our simple parts of:

1 - simply WHOLEHEARTEDLY trusting God and Our Lord and Savior
Jesus Christ, within our human spirit, like Joshua and Caleb,
or else The Lord won't help us cuz we don't fully trust Him for every thing.
2 - and simply WHOLEHEARTEDLY casting all our care upon God and Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, alone forever, within our human spirit,

and all shall be, little by little, EMMANU-EL God within us alone forever truly only

like The Old Hymn Song says..."that all may see, Christ ONLY always...living in me"
andand letting God solve His Problems, His Good Merciful Way.

 

[Crossseeker]

Years ago, I was a very selfish Christian, and I saw others faults very clearly...but later on after God corrected me by showing me His Just Judgments of what i truly deserved apart from Christ...and then little by little in Perfect Love drew me INWARDLY back INTO ABIDING IN CHRIST (JOHN15) showed me that the reason that i saw the faults of others so clearly...is BECAUSE THEY WERE ALSO MY OWN FAULTS

It Is Written, "O Give thanks unto The Lord, because The Lord is good,
because The Lord's Mercy (Jesus) endures forever."

It Is Written, "Proverbs 3:31, "Envy thou not the oppressor, and choose none of his ways."

If this guy's son is way out of line...it says restore (by praying to God for him ONLY according to God's Will...that God's Will alone forever will be done...that is that God Our Father and Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ alone forever will be glorified...and that if possible the erring son will be Mercifully lead gently back to Christ's Meek Way...It Is Written in Galatians6:1 "restoring such a one in a spirit of meekness, considering yourself, lest you also be tempted."


It Is Written in Galatians6:1, "Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted."

 

[LETS_TALKJESUS]

I got this problem in my church


Our Pastor is up in his eighties, and his
SON is taking over the church
when his DAD dies.

The problem is that the younger man insults
people openly alot
he drives people away before they have a
chance to see the love and respect
from everyone else.

(our church really is a wonderful place)

I believe in admonishing people when they
get out of line, but i think it art to be done
with love and certainly not a public display
for all to hear (ACCORDING TO MATTHEW 18)

These poor people in the church are so
offended and humiliated
they never want to come back

I know The Bible says,

1 Timothy 5:1-2
1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a
father; and the younger men as brethren;

1 Timothy 5:19
19 Against an elder receive not an
accusation, but before two or
three witnesses.

Proverbs 18:19
19 A brother offended is harder to be won
than a strong city: and their contentions
are like the bars of a castle.

AND I KNOW IT SAYS DON'T BE EASILY OFFENDED TOO.
BUT IT'S HARD NOT TO GET OFFENDED AT THIS GUY.


HE'S BECOMING LIKE A DICTATOR!
THERE'S NO VOTING ON CHURCH ISSUES, OR
HOW THINGS ARE DONE
WHATEVER HE SAYS GOES


AND NO ONE WILL SPEAK UP PROBABLY
FOR THE SAME REASON AS ME...
THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO

THE PASTOR LETS HIM GET AWAY WITH IT BECAUSE
HE'S GOING TO BE THE NEW PASTOR SOME DAY.


I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE IN CHURCH
WHO FEELS THIS WAY

What can be done here
I don't want to
rebuke an Elder and sin myself,

But something got to be done
this guy is destroying our church

I really don't know what to do here help!

Preacher rule
is a dangerous heresy that should be
rebuked, reproved and opposed whenever it rears
up its ugly head within the church.
Most of the readers
of this post will be personally aware of one
or several churches that have been wrecked by
pastors who attempted to establish a their own
abusive dictatorship over their congregations.
The dictatorial preacher is a self-centered man
who caters to his worldly desires under the
disguise of true religion and feeds his own ego
instead of his flock.

They were paranoid
They had self-esteem (Self-esteem
is driven by insecurity) not God esteem
They did not have faith that God can take care of things
and protect his churches, so they exereted a heavy hand.
It is true that leaders are supposed to carry out
certain commands from the Lord however to get the
balance on things leaders are supposed to be
servants to the people in a church.
The Bible makes this very plain. You cannot be a
leader unless you are willing to be a servant first.

Mt 20:27
And whosoever will be chief among
you, let him be your servant:
Mt 23:11
But he that is greatest among
you shall be your servant.
Therefore they tried to exert a heavy
handedness on the people manipulating
them through cutting and pasting of scripture
saying thus saith the Lord when it really was
not the Lord at all it was just simply a pastor
trying to push his own agenda to make himself
look good by doing what ever it took to build
up the numbers.
This is called the numbers game.
They are so insecure and paranoid that they
brought in Roman Catholicism by trying to
manipulate people to believe what ever they
taught and if any member questioned
anything they were labeled as trouble
makers, dissenters, rebels ect.
Some of them teach that if you do not
do exactly as they (pastor) say to do
or believe then you are labled a
rebel, trouble maker.
Some are greedy. they care about large numbers
not to bring salvation to their hearts but to increase
the church treasury.
They force their own ideas on the congergation
insulting them if they don't take part.
(even when their ideas are found NO where in scripture).
Don't be fooled
False Prophets are here!
sometimes they are had to spot.
Sometimes you dont want to believe
that
(that good person you know in church
is a false prophet, but he could very well be.)
The Bible says be on your guard,
The devil is going to and fro seeking
whom he may devour.
We are living in the last days
the devil is working overtime right now
he knows he don't have long to decieve
Gods Elect.
False Prophets are real
in fact you will find them righ in your church
TRYING TO DESTROY GOD'S CHURCH
WITH LIES!
TAKE FAIR WARNING
BE ON YOUR GUARD!

 

[tranquility]

Wow thanks alot, cross seeker!

first my church is not the true church
and now im an extremely selfish person

Your a big help

Tranquility

 

[Crossseeker]

Be not angry that you cannot make others as you wish them to be, since you cannot make yourself as you wish to be. - Thomas A. Kempis

 

[Boanerges]

Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

Pray.
Speak the truth in love.
Take two or three witnesses and privately speak to this man.
Remember that all correction in the church has the final goal of restoration.
Perhaps a talk with the almost retired Pastor is also in order. You people in the Lord often tend to throw their weigh around out of insecurity.

Do not be put off by the doctrines of others concerning church government. Be led of the Spirit and remember that we are not always in church to receive but often God places us there for such a time as this.

 

[dannibear]

It may seem scary to speak up about it, but you should go to this young man, and kindly tell him of what you and the rest of the church notice. And then if that doesnt have any effect, go to his father and talk to him about it, ask his father to go with you. Besides, when Jesus was on this Earth, he wasnt afraid of speaking up about the Pharisees. He spoke up against their selfishness and love for the world and status. Jesus did it even though he knew he would be hated by them. If he knew that fact and still did it, we can also do that about our pastors.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

This guy is destroying our church. I really don't know what to do here help!

Doesn't your church have a board of deacons, laymen who have responsibility for hiring a pastor? They should be the ones who decide who the new pastor will be. I don't think it is good that you have a system where the current pastor hangs on for a lifetime and then passes the role along to his son by some sort of rite of succession.

SLE

 

[Logos57]

I got this problem in my church


Our Pastor is up in his eighties, and his
SON is taking over the church
when his DAD dies.

The problem is that the younger man insults
people openly alot
he drives people away before they have a
chance to see the love and respect
from everyone else.

(our church really is a wonderful place)

I believe in admonishing people when they
get out of line, but i think it art to be done
with love and certainly not a public display
for all to hear (ACCORDING TO MATTHEW 18)

These poor people in the church are so
offended and humiliated
they never want to come back

I know The Bible says,

1 Timothy 5:1-2
1 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a
father; and the younger men as brethren;

1 Timothy 5:19
19 Against an elder receive not an
accusation, but before two or
three witnesses.

Proverbs 18:19
19 A brother offended is harder to be won
than a strong city: and their contentions
are like the bars of a castle.

AND I KNOW IT SAYS DON'T BE EASILY OFFENDED TOO.
BUT IT'S HARD NOT TO GET OFFENDED AT THIS GUY.


HE'S BECOMING LIKE A DICTATOR!
THERE'S NO VOTING ON CHURCH ISSUES, OR
HOW THINGS ARE DONE
WHATEVER HE SAYS GOES


AND NO ONE WILL SPEAK UP PROBABLY
FOR THE SAME REASON AS ME...
THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO

THE PASTOR LETS HIM GET AWAY WITH IT BECAUSE
HE'S GOING TO BE THE NEW PASTOR SOME DAY.


I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE IN CHURCH
WHO FEELS THIS WAY

What can be done here
I don't want to
rebuke an Elder and sin myself,

But something got to be done
this guy is destroying our church

I really don't know what to do here help!

Howdy Tranquility, first and foremost pray before you do anything which I'm pretty sure you have. I remember when I was in the Army and stationed over in Germany we had a Pastor who during the Service attacked a member verbally, needless to say for about 3-6 months at this church, the devil was enjoying himself, as the Church was nearly split in two.

First thing I think you might do is try to talk to the current Pastor and his son, and tell them your feelings. If it was me, I would say something to the extent that I don't see the qualification of a bishop in the son (I Timothy 3:1-7, especially verse 3; Titus 1:6-9). You by the Spirit could do this without rebuking the son.

Remind them of Peter exhortation to Pastors in I Peter 5:1-4
Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being examples to the flock.
I Peter 5:3

I will be keeping you in my prayers Tranquility.

 

[Shutterbug]

We all deal the type of person you mention. The most difficult attitude to avoid them wishing them ill will. I work with a chap who makes very clear that he gets along with everyone as long as they remember everything is about him. The best part is he once labelled himself a Christian although I believe he has a Christian background of sorts and that is what he was describing. For the record, we don't really get along, but we both make an effort to find a happy medium.

On the other side of the coin, the son is in the position of Prince Charles: Mum won't step down as Queen. As long as Dad remains in charge, Sonny lives in his shadow and no doubt is personally frustrated. Of course, Dad may have kept the reins for the same reason the Queen did: Sonny isn't really leadership material in the eyes of the parent.

While we peons can make suggestions (barring something very wrong), the Pastor is in charge and it is his congregation, so to speak. Any decisions are ultimately his to decide upon as that why he is paid. It also means bearing responsibilty if things go awry.

It's an awkward position, but treat the guy with dignity. If nothing else, you will part on better terms.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

First thing I think you might do is try to talk to the current Pastor and his son, and tell them your feelings. If it was me, I would say something to the extent that I don't see the qualification of a bishop in the son (I Timothy 3:1-7, especially verse 3; Titus 1:6-9). You by the Spirit could do this without rebuking the son.

This sounds like good advice except I wouldn't go to this meeting alone. Find a bunch of church members who agree with you and approach father and son as a group. Remember Dt 19:15.

SLE

 

[#1Evangelist]

If I were you I'd consider finding a new church. I find it somewhat disturbing if no one's told the pastor or the pastor-to-be about their feelings. Obviously they both want people to stay at the church and if you tell them how you feel this issue should be resolved soon.