I Never Knew You

[Samson2020]

Matt 7:21 Not everyone that saith unto me Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father
which is in heaven.
Matt 7:22 MANY will say to me in that day Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy
name done many wonderful works?
Matt7:23 And then will I profess unto them I never knew you: depart from me ye that work iniquity.

How is this possible?

Deception!

Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? Nay. BUT BY THE LAW OF FAITH.
Who gave the law of Moses to the Hebrew nation? God?
Where do you suppose the law of faith comes from? God as well?

1 Co 1:26 For you see your calling brethren, how that NOT MANY WISE MEN AFTER THE FLESH, NOT MANY MIGHTY, NOT MANY NOBLE,ARE CALLED:
1 Co 1:27 But GOD HATH CHOSEN the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and GOD HATH CHOSEN the weak things of the world
to confound the things which are mighty:
1 Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, HATH GOD CHOSEN, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought
things that are.

Jas 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not GOD CHOSEN the poor of this world TO BE RICH IN FAITH, and HEIRS OF THE KINGDOM
which He hath promised to them that love Him?

It would seem that unless you are graced with the right kind of FAITH, you were not called. The election is clearly depicted in the above verses.
GOD CHOOSES who will be rich in FAITH and heirs of the kingdom. Not many wise, mighty or noble are chosen.

Since the word of god is true, then when He calls He also draws one to Jesus who imparts life unto the one that was called.
That is the knowing of you by Jesus, a starting point.

These men, and there are many as stated, believe they are the called but are not, for what faith they had was not the faith that GOD GIVES,
HEART FAITH. their faith was HEAD FAITH.

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by FAITH in Jesus Christ unto ALL and upon ALL them that believe: for there is no difference.

We see 2 groups here the ones who have faith UPON them-the believers, and the ones to whom faith is UNTO-the non believer. But there is no difference in the 2 groups for none of them were worthy of the glory of God.

So what do you see? Is there injustice with God? No, it is a calling/election according to His choosing. Does He love ALL? Yes

Then why did Jesus call them workers of Iniquity/lawlessness? They were never chosen/called by God to receive life from Jesus at this time,
thus according to the law of FAITH they are not inheritors of the kingdom at this time either.
But they obviously believe in Jesus, right? Sure, but head faith only. And that isn't enough. Heart faith was never imparted to them.

Tell me what you see

 

[B-A-C]

Matt 7:21; "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

"Depart from Me" ... "you who practice lawlessness". Some translations say, "who practice iniquity" or "you who act wickedly". You who "practice" sin.
Most Christians still sin.. stumble occasionally. Not too many are perfect ( although the Bible does mention 3 or 4 people ). But there is a difference between
stumbling.. and "practicing" sin. When I practice something, I do it everyday to get better at it.

Matt 25:41; "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
Matt 25:42; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
Matt 25:43; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'

"Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire". Again Jesus tells people to depart from Him. Why? Because they never fed the hungry, clothed the poor, or visited the incarcerated.
In short... they didn't love their neighbor.

Luke 13:25; "Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, 'Lord, open up to us!' then He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know where you are from.'
Luke 13:26; "Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets';
Luke 13:27; and He will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.'
Luke 13:28; "In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out.

"Depart from Me" ... "all you evildoers". The bottom line here is... those who do evil, act wickedly, practice lawlessness. Those will be the ones Jesus tells to depart from Him.

2Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
2Pet 3:10; But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
2Pet 3:11; Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
2Pet 3:12; looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

God doesn't want anyone to end up in eternal punishment, He wants "all" to come to repentance.

1Tim 2:3; This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Tim 2:4; who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

God "desires all men to be saved".

Heb 10:26; For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27; but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

Note: All verses above are from the NASB. I did not capitalize any of these sentences. The NASB capitalizes sentences that are quotes from old testament verses.
For example Heb 10:27 is quoting Ezek 15:7; Luke 13:27 and Matt 7:23; are quoting Psalms 6:8;

 

[B-A-C]

1Cor 1:25; Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
1Cor 1:26; For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble;
1Cor 1:27; but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong,

"Consider your calling .. ( brothers and sisters ) not many of you were mighty, wise or rich. Not many doesn't mean "none". It simply means "fewer".
Joseph was rich, Job was rich, Solomon was rich, Joseph of Arimathea was rich, so you can't say "God chooses only the poor".
Albeit, it is harder for rich people to enter the kingdom of heaven. ( Matt 19:23-25; Mark 10:25; Luke 18:25; )

The Holy Spirit does draw people. But people are perfectly capable of resisting the Holy Spirit.

Acts 7:51; "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did.

Just because God reaches out to people, isn't a guarantee that they will accept Him.

Matt 23:37; "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
Luke 13:34; "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, just as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not have it!

Rom 10:21; But as for Israel He says, "ALL THE DAY LONG I HAVE STRETCHED OUT MY HANDS TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE."

 

[Samson2020]

Matt 7:21; "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Matt 7:22; "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

"Depart from Me" ... "you who practice lawlessness". Some translations say, "who practice iniquity" or "you who act wickedly". You who "practice" sin.
Most Christians still sin.. stumble occasionally. Not too many are perfect ( although the Bible does mention 3 or 4 people ). But there is a difference between
stumbling.. and "practicing" sin. When I practice something, I do it everyday to get better at it.

Matt 25:41; "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;
Matt 25:42; for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink;
Matt 25:43; I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.'

"Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire". Again Jesus tells people to depart from Him. Why? Because they never fed the hungry, clothed the poor, or visited the incarcerated.
In short... they didn't love their neighbor.

Luke 13:25; "Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, 'Lord, open up to us!' then He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know where you are from.'
Luke 13:26; "Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets';
Luke 13:27; and He will say, 'I tell you, I do not know where you are from; DEPART FROM ME, ALL YOU EVILDOERS.'
Luke 13:28; "In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but yourselves being thrown out.

"Depart from Me" ... "all you evildoers". The bottom line here is... those who do evil, act wickedly, practice lawlessness. Those will be the ones Jesus tells to depart from Him.

2Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
2Pet 3:10; But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
2Pet 3:11; Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
2Pet 3:12; looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

God doesn't want anyone to end up in eternal punishment, He wants "all" to come to repentance.

1Tim 2:3; This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Tim 2:4; who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

God "desires all men to be saved".

Heb 10:26; For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27; but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

Note: All verses above are from the NASB. I did not capitalize any of these sentences. The NASB capitalizes sentences that are quotes from old testament verses.
For example Heb 10:27 is quoting Ezek 15:7; Luke 13:27 and Matt 7:23; are quoting Psalms 6:8;

The title of the thread was "I NEVER KNEW YOU"

When you find some time figure out how it is that they who believed they were of the faithful were actually never known of the Lord.

These particular people claimed many good works, and in His name did many good things, but still He said to them "I NEVER KNEW YOU"

 

[B-A-C]

He said to them "I NEVER KNEW YOU"

Matthew 7:23; is the only verse in the whole Bible where He says that. I would hate to build a doctrine on one single verse. Especially one that says... "you who practice lawlessness". Would He have said that if they didn't?

 

[Samson2020]

Matthew 7:23; is the only verse in the whole Bible where He says that. I would hate to build a doctrine on one single verse. Especially one that says... "you who practice lawlessness". Would He have said that if they didn't?

Well He did say it and the question is what was the lawlessness they practiced? As He never knew them, they were never born again, for the
new life in the spirit comes from Him. They believed in Jesus, they had obviously accepted Jesus, but were they ever called?
It would appear that would be a no. And there will be many in that day He will turn away.

I laid out the choosing by God of the elect in post #1 and Gods choices of you had nothing to do with your choice of Jesus. That should be apparent
by what has been stated/quoted so far.

An election according to grace. Not an election according to who chooses Jesus.

Curtis made a quote a wile back that stated "A man cannot receive the Son of God until he has received the faith of the Son of God"
That was/is a very true statement.
The receiving of the Son requires the faith be given(by God) to the receiver.
That reality is laid out in Rom 3:22 there is a group that the faith is unto-the non believer at this time, and another that the faith is upon-the believer.
Another example of Gods choice of you, not the other way around.

I stated that most of todays doctrinal stands are 180 degrees backwards of the truth. I still stand by that.

Free will to choose God? Not according to what little has been laid out. He hardens the hearts and blinds the eyes, man can't undo that.

 

[Samson2020]

Matthew 7:23; is the only verse in the whole Bible where He says that. I would hate to build a doctrine on one single verse. Especially one that says... "you who practice lawlessness". Would He have said that if they didn't?

lets add this:

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Does Jesus know those whom the Father has drawn to Him?
So then whom He never knew must not have been drawn?

You have to see this from the spiritual perspective of the physical reality.

The human(male-female) have a feminine spirit, spiritually speaking. They are receivers of their Husbands seed, again spiritually speaking.
The Husband is Christ, the human-the bride that is drawn to Jesus by the Father, (marriage consummation) the new life that the human now has is the result of the union of the 2 spirits, the humans and His. The receiving of Christ in the spirit.
1 Co 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
2 Co 11;2 ............I have betrothed you to one husband (Christ).....................
Those who have received Christ are not the ones who accepted Christ. They are the ones whom were/are drawn by the Father to
Christ to receive of His fullness by Gods choice.

I never knew you is a result of there being NO joining of the spirits of the human with Christ.
It is Spiritual and not physical, and we know that the physical represents the true things that happen in the spiritual
Adam KNEW Eve his wife and she conceived. Jesus, in spirit knows His bride and she has conceived in spirit to His spirit, He knew Her and knows her. That is the moment that the receiver of Christ has been empowered to become a son of God.

 

[B-A-C]

Does Jesus know those whom the Father has drawn to Him?
So then whom He never knew must not have been drawn?

I don't doubt there are some people Jesus doesn't know, and even never knew. I never said any different.
But there are some whom He draws who never accept the invitation.

You have to see this from the spiritual perspective of the physical reality.

As long as it agrees with the scriptures 100% that's fine.

 

[Samson2020]

I don't doubt there are some people Jesus doesn't know, and even never knew. I never said any different.
But there are some whom He draws who never accept the invitation.

Jesus does not do the drawing, God draws them to Him. They receive due to Gods choosing of them, not the other way around.

Those who received Christ does not mean they had a say so in it, it means they were given to join unto the Lord Jesus by an election according to
grace, thus His Fathers choice. Never met a real Christian that would give it back at the time of the infilling. Later maybe so, but the initial never,
it's too undescribable, and overwhelming.

 

[B-A-C]

Never met a real Christian that would give it back at the time of the infilling. Later maybe so, but the initial never,
it's too undescribable, and overwhelming.

The way this is worded, I tend to agree. But I also agree with the "Later maybe so".
But that doesn't prevent people from saying no.

 

[Samson2020]

The way this is worded, I tend to agree. But I also agree with the "Later maybe so".
But that doesn't prevent people from saying no.

Saying no initially is not an option. It was a gift you were infilled with.
You/we were put under condemnation, before birth, by God like it or not. As a descendant of Adam, and you/we agree as you/we know you/we need salvation and are/were sinners.
And you/we have been justified unto life due to what Jesus did. Like it or not.
Your/our coming into that life is determined by Gods order, what you/we do with it will determine how long you will hang
on your own cross before you give up the world and the things in it and overcome all things required of you to overcome.

God had predestined us to become sons period. He is making that happen in His own way and in His own order whether we agree/accept or not.
For He worketh all things (us included) after the council of His own will.

James tells it straight up God begat us of His own will, it had nothing to do with our acceptance of His will, but in time His will, will be seen as
what is without a doubt the best thing the human race could ever have hoped for.

It is given according to a promise that was made before the world was formed and given again to Abraham. The fulfillment of
the promise of life eternal is fulfilled when the spirit of the human is joined unto the Lord Jesus. That is the new life that was promised,
Not laid out for you to accept.

I know we disagree on most everything and thats probably expected, as I see it you see everything as literal so the spiritual interpretation
is missing completely. That makes me want to ask, not condemn, for you know that I am of universal salvation belief, what was your
experience when you received the Holy Ghost, and what testimony do you wish to share of any of the signs our Lord said a believer
would have follow them?

 

[Samson2020]

Let me also ask anyone reading this:

As there are around a little over 2 billion professing Christians in the world today, does that number sound like a REMNANT to you?
Thats close to 1/3rd of the world population.
According to Rev 14:1 there are only 144,000 with the Lord at His return, that sounds more like a remnant to me, and those were brought
into the fold over 2,000 yrs.
Rev 14:4 These are the ones who were not defiled by women(harlots/mother of all), for they are virgins, These are the ones who
follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being FIRST FRUITS to God and the Lamb.
Jas 1:18

Note these are virgins not defiled by women. Male virgins spiritually speaking. (sons)

 

[B-A-C]

Saying no initially is not an option. It was a gift you were infilled with.

No scripture to support this. Plenty of scripture to refute it.

You/we were put under condemnation, before birth, by God like it or not. As a descendant of Adam

No argument here.

God had predestined us to become sons period.

Not us specifically, but mankind yes.

Rom 8:29; For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
Rom 8:30; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

I don't have a problem with God "foreknowing" the future. But just because He knew what decision you would make, doesn't mean He made the decision for you.
But once YOU made the decision, now it's predestined that you will "become conformed to the image of His Son".

Eph 1:4; just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
Eph 1:5; He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

He chose everyone. All mankind. He refuses nobody willing.
He decided this before any of us were born, it is the "intention" of His will. But not the enforcement of His will.

1Tim 2:3; This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Tim 2:4; who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Any doctrine that disagrees with this is a false doctrine. You can add other convoluted verses, you can try to reason it out, you can do whatever you want, but it's still a false doctrine.

 

[Samson2020]

Not us specifically, but mankind yes.

Are you not of mankind? And of course your spirit only as the flesh has no part in a spiritual kingdom.

2Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Any doctrine that disagrees with this is a false doctrine. You can add other convoluted verses, you can try to reason it out, you can do whatever you want, but it's still a false doctrine.

I suppose this depends on your concept of slow. If God wants/desires something is He willing to wait for it to come around to His ways?
If He made a promise He will keep it. It is His gift to you, the becoming part is your cross to bear until you have become.

Eph 1:4; just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
Eph 1:5; He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

He chose everyone. All mankind. He refuses nobody willing.
He decided this before any of us were born, it is the "intention" of His will. But not the enforcement of His will.

Your not actually reading what you quoted.
He chose us.
That we would be holy and blameless before Him In love.
He predestined us to adoption as sons
He did it according to the kind intention of HIS will.

Who hath resisted the will of God? Rom 9:15-19

Rom 8:29; For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

It doesn't strike you as odd that there is a first fruits (144,00) Rev 14:4 but yet Jesus is the first of MANY brethren? The 144,000 are the remnant
not the many.

1Tim 2:3; This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Tim 2:4; who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Agree completely
1 Tim 4:10-11 For therefore we both labor and suffer reproach because we trust in the living God who is the Savior of all men, specially those that believe. These things command and teach.

Is there not a striking similarity between this and Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ UNTO ALL and
UPON all them that believe, for there is no difference.

So God is the Savior of all men, specially those that believe, and the faith of Jesus Christ is upon all them that believe.
However; the faith is to all men but not upon all men yet, and not all are believers yet either. Just as we do not see all things put
under the authority of Christ yet as well. What a coincidence.

No scripture to support this. Plenty of scripture to refute it.

Depends on your defining of received, was it a gift you were infilled with or did God give it to you because you reached out and accepted it?
As it was made by promise, I see no acceptance on your part required for Him to give you what Jesus paid for, LIFE.

 

[Hekuran]

Again, a little more context clarifies things. If you read on, Jesus talks of 'these words of mine' ie the teaching in the Sermon on the Mount.

Anyone who does not live by Jesus' teaching, will be disowned on the day of judgement.

No need to hurt your head with philosophical questions about election, predestination, freewill etc. Just obey Jesus words.

Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

 

[joestue]

When you find some time figure out how it is that they who believed they were of the faithful were actually never known of the Lord.

people know of the Lord all they want.

but the Lord doesn't know them.

Jesus is not talking about the knowledge of God but rather the intimacy of the relationship that God has with the few on earth who love God and obey His commandments.

 

[Samson2020]

Jesus is not talking about the knowledge of God but rather the intimacy of the relationship that God has with the few on earth who love God and obey His commandments.

I can go there with you, but If you were drawn to Jesus by the Father it is up to Jesus to reveal the Father to you, If He never knew them then
the Father would have never been revealed to them to love or obey.

Simply put, those people, and there will be many, believed they were of the elect, but were never born of the spirit.

 

[Hekuran]

I can go there with you, but If you were drawn to Jesus by the Father it is up to Jesus to reveal the Father to you, If He never knew them then
the Father would have never been revealed to them to love or obey.

Simply put, those people, and there will be many, believed they were of the elect, but were never born of the spirit.

@Samson2020 that adds precisely nothing to an understanding of Jesus' teaching in this passage

 

[Samson2020]

@Samson2020 that adds precisely nothing to an understanding of Jesus' teaching in this passage

Simply put, those people, and there will be many, believed they were of the elect, but were never born of the spirit.

It was a restatement of the original post, simplified. And the answer is DECEIVED.

Matt 7:21 Not everyone that saith unto me Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father
which is in heaven.
Matt 7:22 MANY will say to me in that day Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy
name done many wonderful works?
Matt7:23 And then will I profess unto them I never knew you: depart from me ye that work iniquity.

How is this possible?

Deception!

 

[Samson2020]

Tell me of the billions that claim to be Christians today, approximately 2 billion, how many of them actually are, considering
that not many wise, not many noble, and not many mighty are called?

Would seem the answer is NOT MANY.