I see nowhere in The New Testament that "WE" are to go against The Government Paul and Jesus Didn't

[PloughBoy]

No where in the New Testament are we taught to go against The Government, but we are commanded to Obey Governments By The Word of GOD. And there is no where found in The New Testament writings where, any "Apostle" went against the Government and no where in the Bible we are told to fight the laws of governments.

Submission to Authorities

(1 Peter 2:13-20)
Romans 13 ASV
1LET EVERY SOUL be in subjection to the higher powers: For There Is No Power But Of God; And The Powers That Be Are Ordained Of God. 2Therefore He That Resisteth The Power, With Standeth The Ordinance Of God: And They That Withstand Shall Receive To Themselves Judgment. 3For rulers are not a terror to the good work, but to the evil. And wouldest thou have no fear of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise from the same: 4for he is a minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is a minister of God, an avenger for wrath to him that doeth evil. 5Wherefore ye must needs be in subjection, not only because of the wrath, but also for conscience'sake. 6For this cause ye pay tribute also; for they are ministers of God's service, attending continually upon this very thing. 7Render to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due ; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

Proverbs 8:15
By me kings reign, and rulers enact just laws;

Proverbs 24:21
My son, fear the LORD and the king, and Do Not Associate With The Rebellious.

John 19:11
Jesus answered, "You would have no authority over Me If It Were Not Given To You From Above. Therefore the one who handed Me over to you is guilty of greater sin."
Titus 3:1
Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,

Now who are the ones who instruct contrary to these commands using doctored up reasons that is contrary to "ordinary" common, sense "Holy Scripture"?

Note: The "WE" means, Those who are "Born of GOD" and not Born of the flesh.

"I see nowhere in The New Testament that "WE" are to go against The Government Paul and Jesus Didn't"

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Did Jesus and John ever rebuke the religious leaders of there time by calling them Hypocrites, a brood of vipers, and children of hell?

Did John rebuke the government officials in his day?

Mark 6:17-18​

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King James Version​

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17 For Herod himself had sent forth and laid hold upon John, and bound him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife: for he had married her.
18 For John had said unto Herod, It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother's wife.”

Did Jesus?

Luke 13:31-32​

​

King James Version​

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31 The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee.
32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.”

How about Peter and John who refused to listen to the religious leaders of their day?

Acts 4:18-19​

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King James Version​

​

​

18 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.
19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.”

Did God ever have His prophets rebuke the heads of government, like Pharoahs and Kings in the Old Testament?

Did Daniels 3 brethren bow down to the golden image which the King commanded them to worship? Or did Daniel cease to pray to God after the King made it unlawful to do so?

Jesus said his disciples shall brought before governors and Kings as a witness Against them.

Matthew 10:18
And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

Mark 13:9
But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

I could go on and on, but I believe there is plenty of scriptures that confirm godly men have defied the unlawful orders of governments and Kings and religious leaders in the past.

 

[PloughBoy]

Did Jesus and John ever rebuke the religious leaders of there time by calling them Hypocrites, a brood of vipers, and children of hell?

Did John rebuke the government officials in his day?

Mark 6:17-18​

​

King James Version​

​

​

17 For Herod himself had sent forth and laid hold upon John, and bound him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife: for he had married her.
18 For John had said unto Herod, It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother's wife.”

Did Jesus?

Luke 13:31-32​

​

King James Version​

​

​

31 The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee.
32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.”

How about Peter and John who refused to listen to the religious leaders of their day?

Acts 4:18-19​

​

King James Version​

​

​

18 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.
19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.”

Did God ever have His prophets rebuke the heads of government, like Pharoahs and Kings in the Old Testament?

Did Daniels 3 brethren bow down to the golden image which the King commanded them to worship? Or did Daniel cease to pray to God after the King made it unlawful to do so?

Jesus said his disciples shall brought before governors and Kings as a witness Against them.

Matthew 10:18
And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

Mark 13:9
But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

I could go on and on, but I believe there is plenty of scriptures that confirm godly men have defied the unlawful orders of governments and Kings and religious leaders in the past.

I will say it again:

"I see nowhere in The New Testament that "WE" are to go against The Government Paul and Jesus Didn't"​

And you have not prove me wrong.

The Whole WORLD is guilty and condemn by GOD, there is none righteous no not one> We all are sinners.

King James Bible
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

John 16: 8
…7But I tell you the truth, it is for your benefit that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. 8And when He comes, He will convict the world in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: 9in regard to sin, because they do not believe in Me;…

Everybody are sinners, To be good and go to hell what is that? Every man is to REPENT and Be Saved is a Big difference, no man's goodness and righteousness can saved them from the Wrath of GOD, JESUS came to Saved SINNER not GOOD people! It is all about Being saved from The WRATH of GOD! and that is the Witness to let people, children to informed them, that they all are sinners from the day that they are born into this world and they are condemn to die and go to a Burning lake of fire throughout out all eternity. The baby is a sinner, the boys are sinner, the girl, the woman, and the man, The office of Government is not going to hell but men and women are.. Go against the LAW, you will be Punish. God told us so!

if you think I am lying go against them in the name of JESUS, You will not, because you are scared to stand for Jesus because you know you will be punish just like GOD's word SAID!

Lock you up and throw away the key!!!! My uncle use to say, a "Hard Head will make a soft behind"

Nothing but Volume and no actions of Contents.

 

[backNforth]

From the OP:

No where in the New Testament are we taught to go against The Government, but we are commanded to Obey Governments By The Word of GOD. And there is no where found in The New Testament writings where, any "Apostle" went against the Government and no where in the Bible we are told to fight the laws of governments.

Even (so-called) Christians are suffering for the wrong things: "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge..." (Hosea 4:6).

This is about Godly authority versus ungodly authority; righteous government versus unrighteous government.

In Romans 13:1-4 KJV we read: "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil."

These words have been widely interpreted to simply mean all believers should obey the government because government has been ordained of God. This particular view is a gross distortion of the truth. In this context, I've found that when a superficial reading of a certain text somehow doesn't seem logical, it's useful to look at the actions of the writer to see if his life and actions are consistent with your interpretation of his teaching. In short, when Paul writes that "they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation," but the book of Acts shows Paul repeatedly doing just that, there must be something wrong with our understanding of the text. And that's precisely what we see throughout the New Testament.

It is noteworthy that modern copyrighted “versions” of The Holy Bible have changed the phrase “higher powers” to merely “governing authorities,” thereby obscuring the necessary distinction between Godly authority and ungodly authority, between God’s kingdom and Satan’s kingdom.

When Paul writes in the opening statement of Romans chapter 13, "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers," the obvious question is who or what are the higher powers? This phrase would have to apply to any higher powers, be they spiritual or earthly. Obviously, in the spiritual realm, there are good and bad powers. On one side we have the Lord and his great angelic host. In the other group, we find Lucifer and "the angels which kept not their first estate" (Jude 1:6). This fallen host most certainly qualifies as a "higher power," for Satan is referred to as the "prince of the power of the air" (Ephesians 2:2). Later in that same book, Paul tells us "We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6:12).

Common sense tells you that Paul is not telling us to be "subject to" the Satanic higher powers in the spiritual realm, so why do we assume he is telling us to be subject to evil earthly powers? How could it be scriptural for us to cooperate with the earthly agency of that spiritual wickedness? The next verse says "Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation." If we resist the evil in the spiritual realm, it's clear we don't receive damnation as a result! How then, could this verse mean if we resist evil in the earthly realm we receive damnation? In other words, in cases where the evil is vested in government, the idea that we are no longer to resist this evil is ludicrous.

Paul is telling us we must not resist the righteous power of God - whether it is manifested in the heavenlies or in various earthly sectors - including righteous government.

When Pilate and Herod give Jesus an order to speak, Christ resists their orders and remains silent (Matthew 27:13, Luke 23:7). When Paul has been beaten illegally by evil men within the Roman government, he refuses their command to come out of the jail and defiantly says "...let them come themselves and fetch us out." (Acts 16:37). That's not resisting?

When Peter is assisted in a jail-break by an angel, how is that obeying the government? (Acts 12:7). Did the Apostle "receive damnation" because he didn't ask the evil rulers 'Can I go now?' The writer of Hebrews tells his readers "ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin" (Hebrews 12:4). That firmly implies the Christians were appropriately resisting the evil, but every instance of that resistance ending in bloodshed occurs at the hands of the authorities. Whom were they resisting? The Evil Authority.

When Stephen was murdered, it was the religious leadership of the Jews that "set up false witnesses" to justify their unlawful crime. They even brought him before the high priest who was in agreement with the heinous killing of the young Christian (Acts 6:13, 7:1, 15). When criminal elements have a position of control and authority within the government, believers have an obligation to resist them--not to twist the scriptures into justification for compliance with an ungodly government. In Damascus, the Jews that had authority under the governmental edict establishing their position (John 11:48) sought to murder Saul (Acts 9:23). Saul escaped over the wall as he left Damascus. That sounds like resistance to me.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Matthew 4:8-10

King James Version

​

8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.”

Jesus was not a boot licker, and neither should we be.

 

[PloughBoy]

From the OP:



Even (so-called) Christians are suffering for the wrong things: "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge..." (Hosea 4:6).

This is about Godly authority versus ungodly authority; righteous government versus unrighteous government.

In Romans 13:1-4 KJV we read: "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil."

These words have been widely interpreted to simply mean all believers should obey the government because government has been ordained of God. This particular view is a gross distortion of the truth. In this context, I've found that when a superficial reading of a certain text somehow doesn't seem logical, it's useful to look at the actions of the writer to see if his life and actions are consistent with your interpretation of his teaching. In short, when Paul writes that "they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation," but the book of Acts shows Paul repeatedly doing just that, there must be something wrong with our understanding of the text. And that's precisely what we see throughout the New Testament.

It is noteworthy that modern copyrighted “versions” of The Holy Bible have changed the phrase “higher powers” to merely “governing authorities,” thereby obscuring the necessary distinction between Godly authority and ungodly authority, between God’s kingdom and Satan’s kingdom.

When Paul writes in the opening statement of Romans chapter 13, "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers," the obvious question is who or what are the higher powers? This phrase would have to apply to any higher powers, be they spiritual or earthly. Obviously, in the spiritual realm, there are good and bad powers. On one side we have the Lord and his great angelic host. In the other group, we find Lucifer and "the angels which kept not their first estate" (Jude 1:6). This fallen host most certainly qualifies as a "higher power," for Satan is referred to as the "prince of the power of the air" (Ephesians 2:2). Later in that same book, Paul tells us "We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6:12).

Common sense tells you that Paul is not telling us to be "subject to" the Satanic higher powers in the spiritual realm, so why do we assume he is telling us to be subject to evil earthly powers? How could it be scriptural for us to cooperate with the earthly agency of that spiritual wickedness? The next verse says "Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation." If we resist the evil in the spiritual realm, it's clear we don't receive damnation as a result! How then, could this verse mean if we resist evil in the earthly realm we receive damnation? In other words, in cases where the evil is vested in government, the idea that we are no longer to resist this evil is ludicrous.

Paul is telling us we must not resist the righteous power of God - whether it is manifested in the heavenlies or in various earthly sectors - including righteous government.

When Pilate and Herod give Jesus an order to speak, Christ resists their orders and remains silent (Matthew 27:13, Luke 23:7). When Paul has been beaten illegally by evil men within the Roman government, he refuses their command to come out of the jail and defiantly says "...let them come themselves and fetch us out." (Acts 16:37). That's not resisting?

When Peter is assisted in a jail-break by an angel, how is that obeying the government? (Acts 12:7). Did the Apostle "receive damnation" because he didn't ask the evil rulers 'Can I go now?' The writer of Hebrews tells his readers "ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin" (Hebrews 12:4). That firmly implies the Christians were appropriately resisting the evil, but every instance of that resistance ending in bloodshed occurs at the hands of the authorities. Whom were they resisting? The Evil Authority.

When Stephen was murdered, it was the religious leadership of the Jews that "set up false witnesses" to justify their unlawful crime. They even brought him before the high priest who was in agreement with the heinous killing of the young Christian (Acts 6:13, 7:1, 15). When criminal elements have a position of control and authority within the government, believers have an obligation to resist them--not to twist the scriptures into justification for compliance with an ungodly government. In Damascus, the Jews that had authority under the governmental edict establishing their position (John 11:48) sought to murder Saul (Acts 9:23). Saul escaped over the wall as he left Damascus. That sounds like resistance to me.

So Jesus and Paul and Stephen, Peter, James, Andrew, Bartholomew, Polycarp , Athannius, Wycliffe, Huss, Tyndale, and all of the other "witness" where destroyed because of "lack of Knowledge" per se you:

And what a great form of Force "Eisegesis" into the Biblical text that you are drawing from to attack and damage a "Theological Biblical Truth"

Your quote:
Even (so-called) Christians are suffering for the wrong things: "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge..." (Hosea 4:6).
This is about Godly authority versus ungodly authority; RIGHTEOUS GOVERNMENT versus unrighteous government.

My Statement stands and it does not need to be "defended" or to be explain. It is "Theologically Sound"

"I see nowhere in The New Testament that "WE" are to go against The Government Paul and Jesus Didn't"​

PloughBoy

Note: A little leaven, Leavens THE WHOLE LUMP! in other words why address the other things you have listed when The 1st. part of your reply is Leaven.

Plus: "Satan is divided against himself" So why would he need our help?

How about that "Kemosabe" Checkmate!

 

[backNforth]

My Statement stands and it does not need to be "defended" or to be explain. It is "Theologically Sound"
How about that "Kemosabe" Checkmate!

Poor guy's got his undies all twisted up, more concerned about protecting his ego than seeking truth.

but we are commanded to Obey Governments By The Word of GOD.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? (Romans 6:16).

IOW, there's a form of obedience that leads to death. I wonder which he's giving his obeisance to...

To further clarify for PloughBoy, God never commanded people to obey the kings of Israel when those kings turned their backs on him. Our Father put those people into captivity for their disobedience towards him! And he does the same today. The Nazi's at Nuremberg said, "Well, I was just doing my job. I was obeying the government." It's an error to believe that whatever the State says is okay "because it's ordained of God." For those who are true followers of Christ Jesus, the government is on his shoulders (Isaiah 9:6), He is the King of kings, and the government is the Kingdom of God. It's a government of peace and the only government that will not end:

Isaiah 9:7, "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end,"

All man-made governments come to an end, so they are obviously not the "higher power." We have to obey the government that's always been here and always will be here.

In reply to the blind opinion that all kings, princes, and governments are set up and "ordained" by God, we will quote the following passage, which is spoken into the ears of Hosea by God Almighty himself. We pray that those who have eyes to see and ears to hear will no longer engage in such opinions:

Hosea 8:4, "They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not."

Also,

Psalms 2:1-3, "Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us."

There's no Godly ordination there.

Further to PloughBoy's misread of Romans chapter 13, we must harmonize scripture, always in context. Try Hebrews chapter 13:

verse 7 - Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. (Is that describing Obama? LOL)
verse 17 - Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. (Is that describing Trump? LOL)

 

[lentz]

We are to obey unless it goes against the conscience.
Will you take the mark of the beast if told to by government. I dont trust our government. They lie at every turn. I will not follow blindly.

 

[PloughBoy]

We are to obey unless it goes against the conscience.
Will you take the mark of the beast if told to by government. I dont trust our government. They lie at every turn. I will not follow blindly.

Many have taken the mark already and do not know it, it could be a "SPIRITUAL Mark"

every since I was kid, Before I got he Holy Ghost when I was 26 years old, Many would say' That kid has the Mark of God on him. Many Minsters and Music reachers in Grade school and many of GOd's people and I had do idea what they meant, ever Strangers "White and Black" and other nationalities a=even "Quakers" pure strangers they would cry and would say The LORD got his Hands on you! Had no idea what they meant. Until 1977 I am at among over 200 plus people he touch me and I had a "Theophany" I saw him and called by my name as clear as day I saw him, on the cross looking at me crying And the Blood was running down his face and his yes and he said; "Chris I died for you" and I responded No please "lord" don't die for me i am to sinful for you to take my place and i started crying in the middle of the aile s among 100's of people they thought I had lost they went and got my father who was a "License Millwright" and the Superintendent said leave him alone that Boy has found GOD! And I preach allover that p[lace that day my daddy thought I had lost my mind! and I am still running strong it is almost 50 years!! I dream Jesus and wake up Jesus and Lay down Jesus! I do not church I do Jesus! and I can out Preach and out lecture in what ever the topic be! been there and done that! among 100's have been in every state except maybe 3 or 4 in these United States carrying the GOSPEL Among White, Black Hispanics, Italians, Spaniards, American Indians, Hillbillies, Bluegrass, Arabs, Jews, Cajuns, Chadians, Japanese, Lebanese, Arminians,, men and children, Career days in The "White School Systems' for the Ministry and Missionary fields. The French and Belgium people and married and bury and committed to the grave and last rites to the dying.

Who could every imagine that a little black boy from the HOOD, could even be in the back country king with a backpack on deep into the ROCKIEs where helicopters had to drop you in! The Canadian Rockies! And when you get so far up into the Mountains that when you look down you see clouds. and when the question come to your mind, what am I doing way out here! a black from Detroit, Michigan with a backpack on in snow that is Blue and not white!

It got to be a GOD! because only a fool would go and do what I have done! TALKING ABOUT "THE ACTS OF THE APOSTLES!" it has been said to me. What are you doing way out here? many of times. A Back Pack Snow Skier, and "A HorseBack Trail Guide" and a lot more. wow! have gotten lost in "Swamps" fallen into Quick sand and all alone and night time is creeping in. and you could here the Bobcats howling in the Dark. and I still wast not scared! in 2 below weather, Have went off a very Steep Cliff and and climb up by hand. and have been hit by a car about five times and knock out my teeth and been in about teo serious cars wrecks racing once and got ran off the road and i hit three trees in mid air before the car hit the ground! and A car hit me head on when I was riding my Motorcycle after coming from Canada where I broaden my horse. in the hospital that time for 27 days. a head on crash no brakes by me or the car. torn all of my clothes off. and The Radiologist told my mother in the hospital After 7 hours of Surgery That God was trying to talk to me! And with all those tubes in me and I could not move and not one bone was broken in my Body, and I knew God had sent an Angel to me while I was laying dying in the street. I told my Mother he is talking and I am listening! From that day had stared to repent of it all I started turning around and let those women along!!!! That was in 1972 and in 1977 I could converted and I have never been the same. and have been growing in Christ every day he reveals something to me and now it is almost 50 years and still growing not in churchnity or church services, But growing in Christ that has nothing to do with this world! not one thing. I am just passing through. and on my way home. let the world have their world and I will not stand in their way!

like when they said the world took prayer out of the school systems. and I told my older children at that time which were very young then, They can't not stop you from praying! Stop listening to these lies! How did Jesus tell us to pray? My little kids said these words: "when you pray go into your closet and shut the Door and when your Heavenly Father see you" and my little kids ,they laugh and kept on playing!

And Iet them know from a young age we do not pray like the world Prays for we are different and he has given us different ways. and do not be trap by these who corrupt your minds about JESUS and they give you another Jesus with different ways!
I would be a fool to pray in public when the government has enacted laws to not do so, when My LORD have told me do not pray in PUBLIC! He is "MY "LORD" and I act like it.


I learn this in 1977 my first time reading the Bible word for word and I was big enough of a fool to believe it, and they the church laugh at me for standing on This "TRUTH" and I cried but I stood there anyhow and refuse to pray in public!!!

Matthew 6 NASV 1977
1“Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.

2“When therefore you give alms, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 3“But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing4that your alms may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will repay you.

5“And when you pray, you are not to be as the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners, in order to be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. 6“But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees in secret will repay you. 7“And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition, as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. 8“Therefore do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need, before you ask Him. 9“Pray, then, in this way:
‘Our Father who art in heaven,
Hallowed be Thy name.

10‘Thy kingdom [will] come.
Thy will [will be] done,
On earth as it is in heaven.

11‘Give us this day our daily bread.

12‘And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.

13‘And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.]’ 14“For if you forgive men for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15“But if you do not forgive men, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

And almost 50 years now and I am doing it the same way. as I begin my day.

I am tired now and forgive me if the text editor is messing up this is a 2012 model Mac Pro that I bought in 2012 new. and it rewrites as it pleases. the grammar and the spellings. and it does not like "theological themes"

it might be 'Anti- Christ" it sure acts like it.

 

[lentz]

I actually believe the Mark will be given during tribulation after church is gone.

 

[Andyindauk]

I actually believe that Plough Boy's onto something here. Look at the context of the early church. Pretty much all of the known world was ruled by the Roman empire. We in the West complain about our governments but compared to Caesar, they're ***** cats. They worshiped strange mythical gods, their orgies were the stuff of legend, cruelty was a tool to ensure obedience to the state and enforced slavery was widely practiced. Persecution of Christians was rife and even public entertainment as they were forced to fight gladiators and hungry lions. Things got considerably worse when Claudius Nero became emperor.

Christian historians have looked back and concluded that the persecution at the time served to spread the Gospel as fleeing Christians witnessed to towns and cities that were previously untouched.

Nowhere in the New Testament do any authors exhort Christians to wage a 'Christian Jihad' against the state. That is so not the God we worship. Instead we're exhorted to welcome hostility towards our faith and persecution 2 Corinthians 12:10, James 1:12, Romans 6:3-5 and there are plenty more.

Yes, there are limits to our obedience to the State, Acts 5:28-29, our first allegiance is to God. Those of us fortunate to live in a democratic state should thank and praise God for His blessing but be supportive of our poor brothers and sisters for whom persecution is a way of life. Supportive = prayer, concern, love and most importantly, financial.

May the Lord bless you and I hope you have a lovely week ahead.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Why bother? BUT HEY!!
Act 4:19 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.
Act 4:19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.
Act 4:20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

Seems that the Peter and John weren't to anxious to "obey their Government",

 

[B-A-C]

Rev 13:15; And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.
Rev 13:16; And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead,
Rev 13:17; and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18; Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.

So since you aren't going against the government, does that mean you are going to take the mark?

 

[Beetow]

PloughBoy was born too late. He coulda been a guard at Auschwitz and/or Dachau
where they starved, tortured, overworked, inadequately clothed, poisoned, and
incinerated thousands of Jesus' Jewish countrymen-- men, women, and children:
old and young alike --and some of those Jews were Christians.
_

 

[PloughBoy]

Why bother? BUT HEY!!
Act 4:19 And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.
Act 4:19 But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.
Act 4:20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

Seems that the Peter and John weren't to anxious to "obey their Government",

What is government? is it the man or the independent women who decides at bay, or are people place in positions to make sure The establish Laws that is written down. is enforced. Is it not expected if one is accused of breaking a establish law, is there not a official officiating to questions and examine whether a establish Law has been broken? And once it has been established, a law has been broken by The "official" then A sentencing is carried out.

What law had been broken in "Acts 4" after the Official look and examine the facts. and what was the condemning actions, so far which is a minor infractions from my stand points, Someone had caused a "Uprising" a "Riot" among the peoples is not causing a "Riot" a Civil offense! Martin Luther King jr. cause manning of "RIOTS" and the Police set dogs out on Children in the Streets for non violent demonstrations. They lock him up too! many times when I was growing up that was our news for the days, Civil Rights actions, that was establish laws, did he break The Laws of the Land, Yes he cause "RIOTS" and they brought "The NATION GUARDS" so a little black girl to go to school! I have done many of programs and making video's transcripts in my time of those era. and what happen. I am not dead yet. I did march too even as a kid. and was scared for my life.

We all got history that also will follow us all the way to Glory even as we sit down at 'The Bema Seat" and my memory's will follow me there and not one of us can hide.

Act 4:20 For we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.

 

[PloughBoy]

PloughBoy was born too late. He coulda been a guard at Auschwitz and/or Dachau
where they starved, tortured, overworked, inadequately clothed, poisoned, and
incinerated thousands of Jesus' Jewish countrymen-- men, women, and children:
old and young alike --and some of those Jews were Christians.
_

I consider your words a blessing for the Day reserved at "The Bema SEAT" Thank you!

Matthew 5 NASB 1977
11“Blessed are you when men cast insults at you, and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely, on account of Me. 12“Rejoice, and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

And the Pure Gold, keeps pouring in
1 Thessalonians 5:18
NASB 1977
in everything give thanks; for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.

Legacy Standard Bible
in everything give thanks, for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.

Amplified Bible
in every situation [no matter what the circumstances] be thankful andcontinually give thanks to God; for this is the will of God for you in Christ Jesus.


The whole world and The "Nominal Christians" do not understands this But we do!

 

[Beetow]

This comment is off-topic but really something that needs be said on occasion.

Internet forums have given many of Christ's obscure followers a convenient venue
for sharing their time-won knowledge and experience with a worldwide audience.
For the world's sake, I highly recommend making an effort to compose legible
posts; neatly arranged, sensible, coherent, and tidy.

Excessive bolding, underscoring, and italics, lack of adequate paragraphing, twitter
spelling, unnecessary emogies, horrible grammar, confusing mixtures of font sizes
and colors, and/or shouting with caps, makes for tiresome clutter and annoying
graffiti that leave a bad impression.

Some people's posts resemble the obnoxious placards of worked-up protesters and
political activists; yelling, shrieking, and sometimes even spraying spittle. They are
beyond reason and objectivity in their desperation to be taken seriously. Apparently
they assume that if only they shout loud enough, make themselves aggravating
enough, and hold out long enough; maybe they'll get their point across and
somebody will finally listen.

I rather suspect that some people regard forums as a canvas for painting their
comments instead of composing them. Well; that might be okay for outsiders, they
can scrawl and splash and be as messy as they want because their comments don't
matter anyway. But for those of us who honestly believe ourselves to be
representing God's son; that kind of penmanship is unacceptable because it reflects
on Christ and makes him look like his followers are desperate kooks.

● Phil 1:27 . . Conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ.
_

 

[lentz]

This comment is off-topic but really something that needs be said on occasion.

Internet forums have given many of Christ's obscure followers a convenient venue
for sharing their time-won knowledge and experience with a worldwide audience.
For the world's sake, I highly recommend making an effort to compose legible
posts; neatly arranged, sensible, coherent, and tidy.

Excessive bolding, underscoring, and italics, lack of adequate paragraphing, twitter
spelling, unnecessary emogies, horrible grammar, confusing mixtures of font sizes
and colors, and/or shouting with caps, makes for tiresome clutter and annoying
graffiti that leave a bad impression.

Some people's posts resemble the obnoxious placards of worked-up protesters and
political activists; yelling, shrieking, and sometimes even spraying spittle. They are
beyond reason and objectivity in their desperation to be taken seriously. Apparently
they assume that if only they shout loud enough, make themselves aggravating
enough, and hold out long enough; maybe they'll get their point across and
somebody will finally listen.

I rather suspect that some people regard forums as a canvas for painting their
comments instead of composing them. Well; that might be okay for outsiders, they
can scrawl and splash and be as messy as they want because their comments don't
matter anyway. But for those of us who honestly believe ourselves to be
representing God's son; that kind of penmanship is unacceptable because it reflects
on Christ and makes him look like his followers are desperate kooks.

● Phil 1:27 . . Conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ.
_

I agree. A short well worded paragraph will suffice. I wont waste time reading novels on people's beliefs or opinion.

Sorry. To the moderators....my big thumb hit report by accident on Beetow's post.

 

[PloughBoy]

I agree. A short well worded paragraph will suffice. I wont waste time reading novels on people's beliefs or opinion.

Sorry. To the moderators....my big thumb hit report by accident on Beetow's post.

and it is all excerptible and for historical biblical knowledge That "GOD" did not have his original writers write in a educated matter even The Hebrew language was not formal but informal and common for the uneducated men. But Biblical scholar already know that. and experts in The Linguistic majors and The ancient Biblical Orginal text of HOlY Scripture and I wonder how well did one do in Seminary or and what did they learn about the writers and why GOD Chose certain languages for the Biblical common text. and the idioms , and vernaculars, and The Particular Biblical Imagery He chose and the broken Text of writing of the Hebrew Text and can be copied in The English way, but since you have grew up a live among The Jewish people that you know. And they can testify of your view of The Hebrew way is well conceive as you even speak in the English Language. as well for the text at large! And I am quite sure the scholar here knows, why and who the Original text was direct too and I am not referring to a drum up modern day translations to a better than thou attitude of a very prideful group of wickedly wise want to bees. as if sentences and paragraphs and spellings have any value outside of Etymology and creative modern day words that never even existed in the Original Copied manuscript of "THE TRUTH" and so wise and highly Intelligent was "Thomas Aquinas" when he stomped the finest of all the elites as if they were from "Dog patch" Kentucky. o yes how foolish of those who think that they as so wise and they have no idea in whom they are representing but yet so wise.

9For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.” 20Where is the wise man? Where isthe scribe? Where is the philosopher of this age?Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know Him. [even the vernacular of God cannot be understood unless he gives the command.] how can one understand a man from a place that is Called "Nazareth, " can any good thing come out of it?

Isaiah 19:11
The princes of Zoan are mere fools; Pharaoh's wise counselors give senseless advice. How can you say to Pharaoh, "I am one of the wise, a son of eastern kings"?

1 Corinthians 4:6
Brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us not to go beyond what is written. Then you will not take pride in one man over another.

1 Corinthians 4:10
We are fools for Christ, but you are wise in Christ. We are weak, but you are strong. You are honored, but we are dishonored.


And it is "HOWDY DOODY" Time; "Kemosabe"

 

[lentz]

and it is all excerptible and for historical biblical knowledge That "GOD" did not have his original writers write in a educated matter even The Hebrew language was not formal but informal and common for the uneducated men. But Biblical scholar already know that. and experts in The Linguistic majors and The ancient Biblical Orginal text of HOlY Scripture and I wonder how well did one do in Seminary or and what did they learn about the writers and why GOD Chose certain languages for the Biblical common text. and the idioms , and vernaculars, and The Particular Biblical Imagery He chose and the broken Text of writing of the Hebrew Text and can be copied in The English way, but since you have grew up a live among The Jewish people that you know. And they can testify of your view of The Hebrew way is well conceive as you even speak in the English Language. as well for the text at large! And I am quite sure the scholar here knows, why and who the Original text was direct too and I am not referring to a drum up modern day translations to a better than thou attitude of a very prideful group of wickedly wise want to bees. as if sentences and paragraphs and spellings have any value outside of Etymology and creative modern day words that never even existed in the Original Copied manuscript of "THE TRUTH" and so wise and highly Intelligent was "Thomas Aquinas" when he stomped the finest of all the elites as if they were from "Dog patch" Kentucky. o yes how foolish of those who think that they as so wise and they have no idea in whom they are representing but yet so wise.

9For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.” 20Where is the wise man? Where isthe scribe? Where is the philosopher of this age?Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know Him. [even the vernacular of God cannot be understood unless he gives the command.] how can one understand a man from a place that is Called "Nazareth, " can any good thing come out of it?

Isaiah 19:11
The princes of Zoan are mere fools; Pharaoh's wise counselors give senseless advice. How can you say to Pharaoh, "I am one of the wise, a son of eastern kings"?

1 Corinthians 4:6
Brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us not to go beyond what is written. Then you will not take pride in one man over another.

1 Corinthians 4:10
We are fools for Christ, but you are wise in Christ. We are weak, but you are strong. You are honored, but we are dishonored.


And it is "HOWDY DOODY" Time; "Kemosabe"

Short paragraph? Lol i didnt read it all but got the gyst of it.