If Paul gathers....

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

In 2 thess 1:7 paul waits for Jesus to be revealed from Heaven when Jesus will come in the clouds with his mighty angels...

So why does paul not go in the pre trib rapture but waits and ask us to wait for the revelation rapture when all eyes see him? (Rev 1:7)


And paul goes even further to discourage the pre trip rapture by coming right out and saying That day (the day he was talking about - rapture)

The rapture wont happen until the falling away and the man of sin sits as god...


He even says in verse 2 Dont believe it as if its from us that the day of Christ is at hand


This is directed purely at the pre trib rapture teaching.....


So paul goes when Jesus comes in the clouds....

And we are told the next time we see Jesus is coming on the clouds

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Simply put if we see Jesus coming the same way he left then how do you see Him another way

If your in heaven now that verse isnt true
If you go in a pre trib rapture that verse isnt true

 

[Travis]

And paul goes even further to discourage the pre trip rapture by coming right out and saying That day (the day he was talking about - rapture)

The rapture wont happen until the falling away and the man of sin sits as god...

3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. - 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4



There is a teaching that says that the little horn, the man of lawlessness is going to sit in some temple in Jerusalem that is supposed to be the temple of God.

I'm sorry, but if you believe that you have been watching too much Left Behind sillyness.

The temple of God is the church of God. God is not interested in some building built with human hands in Jerusalem. Those temples were built for a reason, as a type or a shadow of what was going to be revealed\is going to be revealed. Every single detail about how the tabernacle/ temple was built was directly related to or Lord himself and his attributes and qualities, etc.

Long story short, no physical temple needs to be built in Jerusalem for anything in bible to prophecy to happen. No man needs to sit in any such temple either. Don't believe the stuff dispensationalism has introduced into the church over the last ~200 years, it is not edifying or true and will lead one away from the reality of bible prophecy and knowledge of what is to come.

Blessings,

Travis

Ps, not talking to you TBT, just anyone who is reading.

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Travis said: There is a teaching that says that the little horn, the man of lawlessness is going to sit in some temple in Jerusalem that is supposed to be the temple of God. I'm sorry, but if you believe that you have been watching too much Left Behind sillyness.


TRUTH BE TOLD replies:

1. So 2 thess 4

Who opposeth and exalteth Himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped So that He as God sitteth in the Temple of God showing himself that he is God...

So your saying if I believe that the man of sin sits in the temple saying he is God I got that wrong?
(Its the devil who sits)



Btw I have never watched the left behind series since I know they teach the pre trib rapture lie

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Travis said: God is not interested in some building built with human hands in Jerusalem


TRUTH BE TOLD replies: But, the Jews are...... when the peace deal comes the jews will rebuild... one of the main reason Gog attacks israel....

I use KJV bible and a concordance only.... no study bibles or foot notes or someone else's thoughts....

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

So again:

If Paul waits for the tribulation rapture and tells us to also wait with them,
And we are told that the next time we see Christ is coming in the clouds...
Which is what Paul waits for

How do you see Him another way?

Since both believers and non are both told this and daniel 12:1-2 shows this and Rev 14:14-19 shows the same thing..

Rev 1:7 All eyes will see his coming - 12:1-2 says that..... 14:14-19 shows the same....

So how do you pre tribbers get around these verses?

To say you do then would make several verses in scripture into a lie..... would it not

 

[Travis]

I use KJV bible and a concordance only.... no study bibles or foot notes or someone else's thoughts....

That may be part of the issue. Nothing more special about the KJV than a number of other English translations out there. They are just translations. Some better than others. The Geneva bible that was so readily used before and after 1611 was/is a great translation too.

The NASB, ESV, Young's, even certain editions of the NIV are very useful at times too. Commentaries and writings of past believers, especially early church fathers as they are called are really good too.


Peace deal? Where is that from?

And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator." - Daniel 9:27 ESV

Daniel 9:27 Geneva Translation
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of the abominations, he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 9:27 AKJV
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

It doesn't say who, it says he. Which he is it referring to? Did not Jesus cause the sacrifice and oblation to stop with his shed blood on the cross? Did he not put a final end to sacrifices and burnt offerings by becoming the ultimate sacrifice himself?

We certainly haven't finished the 70th week mentioned in Daniel yet. Christ began the week already, and at his death split it wide open. There are 3.5 years of time left to finish it. Or 1260 or so days, if you will.

We are in the middle of that week, so to say, and when the time comes, the last half of it will be finished. Probably sooner than later.

There's a lot of weird stuff taught out there about bible prophecy and the time of Jacobs trouble.

Blessings,

Travis

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Travis said: That may be part of the issue. Nothing more special about the KJV than a number of other English translations out there.


TRUTH BE TOLD replies:

You dont know what you dont know..... so travis what version do you use? And I will show you what you dont know

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Travis said: The NASB, ESV, Young's, even certain editions of the NIV are very useful at times too. Commentaries and writings of past believers, especially early church fathers as they are called are really good too.

TRUTH BE TOLD replies: here is the problem Travis, you get your beliefs from MANY different sources

How can Gods word be "useful at times"?

This is why we dont see eye to eye as someone has already taught you what the word says....other peoples work is worthless, if their wrong your wrong, study bibles footnotes are all garbage.... the Holy Spirit leads you in the truth of God's word Not someone else'e....

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Travis said:

It doesn't say who, it says he. Which he is it referringto? Did not Jesus cause the sacrifice and oblation to stop with his shed blood on the cross? Did he not put a final end to sacrifices and burnt offerings by becoming the ultimate sacrifice himself

TRUTH BE TOLD replies:

Did you read the verse or all the verses?

1. Is Jesus a prince of the roman people?
2. Would Jesus make a 7 yr treaty and then break it?
3. Did he make a 7 year treaty were not told about?
4. Why would he make a deal and allow sacrifices?


see you should hang that belief up.... and if we're half way through the 7 years care to show us where in Revelation that would be?

 

[Travis]

I would be tickled pink if someone can find somewhere in the Revelation that says there is a 7 year tribulation.

: )

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Travis can you answer this?

If the next time we see Christ is in the clouds how can you see him another way?

 

[Travis]

Travis can you answer this?

If the next time we see Christ is in the clouds how can you see him another way?

I don't believe in the pre-tribulation rapture?

Confused

 

[Bendito]

In 2 thess 1:7 paul waits for Jesus to be revealed from Heaven when Jesus will come in the clouds with his mighty angels...

So why does paul not go in the pre trib rapture but waits and ask us to wait for the revelation rapture when all eyes see him? (Rev 1:7)


And paul goes even further to discourage the pre trip rapture by coming right out and saying That day (the day he was talking about - rapture)

The rapture wont happen until the falling away and the man of sin sits as god...


He even says in verse 2 Dont believe it as if its from us that the day of Christ is at hand


This is directed purely at the pre trib rapture teaching.....


So paul goes when Jesus comes in the clouds....

And we are told the next time we see Jesus is coming on the clouds

Wow! This verse is not talking about the rapture at all...When one reads the Word he should read ALL of it. Context! Paul was comforting those messianic Jews who were having a difficult time with persecutions of the Jews around them who did not believe the good news being preached.

 

[Bendito]

3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. - 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4



There is a teaching that says that the little horn, the man of lawlessness is going to sit in some temple in Jerusalem that is supposed to be the temple of God.

I'm sorry, but if you believe that you have been watching too much Left Behind sillyness.

The temple of God is the church of God. God is not interested in some building built with human hands in Jerusalem. Those temples were built for a reason, as a type or a shadow of what was going to be revealed\is going to be revealed. Every single detail about how the tabernacle/ temple was built was directly related to or Lord himself and his attributes and qualities, etc.

Long story short, no physical temple needs to be built in Jerusalem for anything in bible to prophecy to happen. No man needs to sit in any such temple either. Don't believe the stuff dispensationalism has introduced into the church over the last ~200 years, it is not edifying or true and will lead one away from the reality of bible prophecy and knowledge of what is to come.

Blessings,

Travis

Ps, not talking to you TBT, just anyone who is reading.

Travis what rebellion are you referring to? In 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 we are talking about apostasy that comes first. Apostasy is not necessarily a rebellion. Could you please clarify this?

 

[Bendito]

So again:

If Paul waits for the tribulation rapture and tells us to also wait with them,
And we are told that the next time we see Christ is coming in the clouds...
Which is what Paul waits for

How do you see Him another way?

Since both believers and non are both told this and daniel 12:1-2 shows this and Rev 14:14-19 shows the same thing..

Rev 1:7 All eyes will see his coming - 12:1-2 says that..... 14:14-19 shows the same....

So how do you pre tribbers get around these verses?

To say you do then would make several verses in scripture into a lie..... would it not

How do pretribbers get around those verses? That's easy......There are two events, the rapture, and the second coming right? If you agree then you have to keep the two events separate and not use the verses for one to prove the other.