I'm looking for answers

[Jonah2005bt]

a flea market in a church? this just doesn't sound righteous to me. My husband found a flea market going on inside a church st anthony i think it's called. And he wants to be a vendor there. But i am worried, because a scripture comes to my mined, john 2:14-16. john 2:14-17
14. And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: 15. And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables; 16. And said unto them that sold doves, take these things hence; make not my father's house an house of merchandise. 17. And his disciples remembered that it was written, the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.
is not a flea market the same thing?

 

[Faithful Son]

It is the same thing sister, I see no difference. Let the Holy Spirit guide you, you know what the right things are.

God bless you
Much love
teraside

 

[maciek]

Let Him find better job

I think he can find some other work which will be better for him and for you...

 

[Faithin1]

Teraside and maciek are absolutely correct. You know within your heart, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, a flea market in God's house is simply wrong. The same is true for bingo, cabarets and byol often found at St. ____ . Why not ask the Lord for an idea?

 

[ShoutSpray]

I have to say finsing a flea market is a little crazy in a Church. Is the Church alive? Is the Holy Spirit there? If its not then its just a building anyways. Why not have a Flea Market?

 

[like_jesus]

I totally agree with shoutspray, it is hilarious though but certainly, if the church is alive there would be no flea market there.
"In the presence of the Lord there is fullness of joy......" and not fleas.

 

[Jonah2005bt]

what kind of work would satisfy those conditions ?

My husband & I are disable. My husband suffers from a very bad slip disc in his back & I have epilepsy, where loose consciousness and\or I go into serious convulsive seizures.

Therefore we are on medicare & do not work. And flea-marketing is more or less a hobby.

 

[Jonah2005bt]

I thank you all for your replies. And I must say, The LORD has answered my prayers. My husband & I didn't go to the flea-market today after all.

My husband simply said it's way to cold & didn't feel like going. I was so glad to hear him say that. I really didn't want go! {John 2:14-17}

Besides once it becomes The Father's House, it remains The Father's House whether it's active or not, until it's been torn down for some very good reason. Right? *genesis

 

[ladylovesJesus]

Praise God for answering your prayers and He honours those who honour Him. He supplies all our needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus. Phil.4.19. I agree with you that The Father's House is His house and we need to treat it properly. God bless you both.

 

[ChristineES]

I think it depends on what the flea market is for. Jesus was angry at the vendors in the temple because they were making money for themselves. It may (and I do say maybe) be different if you are raising money to benefit the Church. The only thing to do is to pray about it.

 

[Jonah2005bt]

Hi Christine, There always is somebody in charge of the flea-market, and they are the ones that collect the money from the vendors, who rent a spot to to set up their merchandise in order to sell.

Perhaps the one who was in charge was collecting money for the Church.
But, other than that, as far as I know, people where there selling for themselves.

I did say a prayer to The Almighty GOD, about this, all most all week.
I ask HIM, to let HIS WILL be done {what HE wants}, if HE approved or not.

I said, I didn't want to go to this flea-market if HE disapproved.

I even asked The LORD, if my husband has any love for HIM {for GOD} at all, if HE would open my husband's eyes, so that he too, would understand why it would be wrong.

Last Wednesday {01-24-07} I shared the scripture John 2:14-17with him.

And the night before the flea-market {01-26-07} my husband asked me if I wanted to go to the flea-market or not. I said I didn't want to go, because of what the Scripture said.

And when the day finally arrived, we didn't go.

My husband simply said it's way to cold & didn't feel like going. I was so glad to hear him say that. I really didn't want go! {John 2:14-17}

I do believed that The Almighty GOD made it so, that, my husband would change his mind & decide not to go.

And I really do believe The LORD has answered my prayers. *genesis

 

[pixie]

Hi Jonah

I live in a town in Canada called Port Hope. There was a Pentecostal Church that was poor and needed a larger location. They sold their old church to a low level radiation facilities office. Our town has a couple of factories that manufacture, low level and "specially enriched uranium".
So now, the old church house has been given over to these corporations and behind this old church and beside it, is our towns graveyard.
How is that for awful. I wish that Calvary Pentecostal had made a better choice, cause I really like the folks from that church.
The other side of the story is, that Calvary Pentecostal Church, bought their new church, from a bankrupt bingo hall. Giving the old church to money minded and buying their new church from money minded. (They converted the whole building into a nursery and classrooms and the greeting hall.
Thought you might find this interesting.
Amen and loveixie :rose:

 

[SpiritLedEd]

The problem with the merchants and the moneychangers in Jn 2:14-16 was not what they were doing, but where they were doing it. What they were doing (selling animals to be used as sacrifices and exchanging money for Jews who came from out of town so they could donate to the temple) was legitimate and necessary.

The problem was that their stands were set up in the area known as The Court of the Gentiles, the designated entrance for all Gentiles coming to the Temple. The area was getting so crowded with Jews doing business with these people that Gentiles who were being drawn to God were being blocked from entering the Temple.

The Lord wasn't angry at the buying and selling per se; he was angry at the callousness of the merchants setting up their stands in a location that blocked the Gentiles' entrance.

SLE

 

[pixie]

Wow SpiritLedEd

I didn't know that SpiritLedEd. To think that Jesus was mad on our behalf. I just got a little closer to Him because of your answer. I think it is so cool, when I hear of Him speak on behalf of the Gentiles.
Things are quickly changing in this world. I wonder what is going to happen with faith. I always have a little notion that Jesus is going to bring back more sheep that the Father gave Him, He is that GREAT and good and nice and compassionate and kind and loving and a happy and loving Lord.
I love Jesus and I love it when the Holy Spirit brings Him to us.
God bless you in the name of the Lord. Amen :rose:

 

[ChristineES]

I don't see why they couldn't rent another place to have their flea market. After thinking about, I can't imagine someone making money in a Church in that way.

 

[Jonah2005bt]

Hi pixie!

I live in a town in Canada called Port Hope. There was a Pentecostal Church that was poor and needed a larger location. They sold their old church to a low level radiation facilities office. Our town has a couple of factories that manufacture, low level and "specially enriched uranium".
So now, the old church house has been given over to these corporations and behind this old church and beside it, is our towns graveyard.
How is that for awful. I wish that Calvary Pentecostal had made a better choice, cause I really like the folks from that church.
The other side of the story is, that Calvary Pentecostal Church, bought their new church, from a bankrupt bingo hall. Giving the old church to money minded and buying their new church from money minded. (They converted the whole building into a nursery and classrooms and the greeting hall.
Thought you might find this interesting.
Amen and loveixie :rose:

Wow! That is really, to bad.

But it is a good thing, that they got to buy a new Church, even if it was from a bankrupt bingo hall.

And then, converting the whole building into a nursery and classrooms and the greeting hall, that sounds great!

I take it, it's a lot bigger Church then the last one, considering the fact that is why they sold the old Church in the first place, because they needed a larger location?

But it's really to bad that they sold the Church to a low level radiation facilities office & couldn't find someone else that would be able to take over that Church starting a new ministry, helping the Church that way. Perhaps there wasn't enough donations {for something like} that to happen.

Running a Church isn't easy it needs the help from all it's members.

There is nothing wrong in flea-marketing, one can do it almost anywhere and yard sales also can tribute in helping out in giving money to a Church in need, as well volunteering in giving donations.

Plus, I'm curious though, you said, you had wished that Calvary Pentecostal had made a better choice, cause you really like the folks from that Church. Won't the folks from that old Church be going to the new Church? *genesis

 

[Jonah2005bt]

Hi SpiritLedEd

Hi Ed, Thank you kindly your reply. And I understand you are saying

what they were doing was legitimate and necessary, back in them days. Selling animals to be used as sacrifices and exchanging money for Jews who came from out of town so they could donate to the temple.

And I agree, that the problem with the merchants and the moneychangers in John 2:14-16 was not what they were doing, but where they were doing it.

And Jesus may have not been angry at them for selling their merchandise, but He was angry at them for where they were selling it & perhaps, how they where selling it.

Mark 11:15-17(New International Version)

15 On reaching Jerusalem, Jesus entered the temple area and began driving out those who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves,
16 and would not allow anyone to carry merchandise through the temple courts.
17 And as he taught them, he said, "Is it not written:
" 'My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations'? But you have made it 'a den of robbers.'

Here is a Study by Barclay's Daily Study Bible Commentary

THE ANGER OF JESUS
Jn.2:12-16
We have seen that it was the selfish purpose of the pilgrims by men who were well aware of what was going on, which moved Jesus to immediate wrath; but there were deep things behind the cleansing of the Temple. Let us see if we can penetrate to the even deeper reasons why Jesus took this drastic step.

No two of the evangelists give Jesus' words in precisely the same way.

They all remembered their own version. It is only by putting all the accounts together that we get a true picture of what Jesus said.

So then let us set down the different ways in which the writers report the words of Jesus.

Matthew gives them as: "My house shall be called a house of prayer, but you make it a den of robbers" (Matt.21:13).

Mark has it: "My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations. But you have made it a den of robbers" (Mk.11:17).

Luke has it: "My house shall be a house of prayer; but you have made it a den of robbers" (Lk.19:46).

John has it: "Take these things away; you shall not make my Father's house a house of trade" (Jn.2:16).

There were at least three reasons why Jesus acted as he did, and why anger was in his heart.

(i) He acted as he did because God's house was being disobeyed.

In the Temple there was worship without respect & even love.

Profound respect or reverence is an instinctive thing.

Worship without respect & love can be a terrible thing.

It may be worship which does not realize the holiness of God, it may be worship in which leader or congregation are completely unprepared.

It may be the use of the house of God for purposes and in a way where the profound respect and deep love of the true function of God's house are forgotten.

In that court of God's house at Jerusalem there would be arguments about prices, disputes about coins that were worn and thin, the clatter of the market place.

That particular form of disrespect may not be common now, but there are other ways of offering a disrespectful worship to God.

(ii) Jesus acted as he did in order to show that the whole thing of animal sacrifice was completely irrelevant.

For centuries the prophets had been saying exactly that.

"What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices? says the Lord; I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of fed beasts; I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs, or of goats.... Bring no more vain offerings" (Isa.1:11-17).

"For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to your fathers or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices" (Jer.7:22).

"With their flocks and herds they shall go to seek the Lord, but they will not find him" (Hos.5:6).

"They love sacrifice; they sacrifice flesh and eat it; but the Lord has no delight in them" (Hos.8:13).

"For thou hast no delight in sacrifice; were I to give a burnt offering, thou wouldst not be pleased" (Ps.51:16).

There was a chorus of prophetic voices telling men of the sheer irrelevancy of the burnt offerings and the animal sacrifices which smoked continuously upon the altar at Jerusalem.

Jesus acted as he did to show that no sacrifice of any animal can ever put a man right with God.

We are not totally free from this very tendency today. True, we will not offer animal sacrifice to God.

But we can identify his service with the installation of stained glass windows,

the obtaining of a more impressive style of speech, the lavishing of money on stone and lime and carved wood,

while real true Worship is still far away.

It is not that these things are to be condemned--far from it.

They are often the lovely offerings of the loving heart.

When they are aids to true devotion they are God-blessed things;

*but when they are substitutes for true devotion they make God sick at heart.

(iii) There is still another reason why Jesus acted as he did.

Mark has a curious little addition which none of the other gospels has:

"My house shall be called the house of prayer for all the nations" (Mk.11:17).

The Temple consisted of a series of courts leading into the Temple proper and to the Holy Place.

There was first the Court of the Gentiles, then the Court of the Women, then the Court of the Israelites, then the Court of the Priests.

All this buying and selling was going on in the Court of the Gentiles which was the only place into which a Gentile might come.

Beyond that point, access to him was barred. So then if there was a Gentile whose heart God had touched, he might come into the Court of the Gentiles to mediate and pray and distantly touch God. The Court of the Gentiles was the only place of prayer he knew.

The Temple authorities and the Jewish traders were making the Court of the Gentiles into an uproar and a rabble where no man could pray.

The lowing of the oxen, the bleating of the sheep, the cooing of the doves, the shouts of the hucksters, the rattle of the coins, the voices raised in bargaining disputes--all these combined to make the Court of the Gentiles a place where no man could worship.

The conduct in the Temple court shut out the seeking Gentile from the presence of God.

It may well be that this was most in Jesus' mind;

it may well be that Mark alone preserved the little phrase which means so much.

Jesus was moved to the depths of his heart because seeking men were being shut out from the presence of God.

Is there anything in our church life--a snobbishness, an exclusiveness, a coldness, a lack of welcome, a tendency to make the congregation into a closed club, an arrogance, being difficult to please or lack of kind to others -- which keeps the seeking stranger out?

Let us remember the wrath of Jesus against those who made it difficult and even impossible for the seeking stranger to make contact with God.

********************************************************

And I add to that & say; Let us remember the wrath of Jesus, how He felt about making The Father's house, a market place, or a house of robbers. {Mark 11:17 & John 2:16}

*genesis

 

[Firstborn]

When Jesus dwelled this earth He was still under the old covenant, so He kept the laws of Moses, by keeping God’s House holy. But under the new covenant, the believers become “the House of God” and the building become just like any other building, can be use as a flea market. According to the writer in the book of Hebrews the temple was just the shadow of the better thing to come. You see, we are now the temple, we are holy, we “bring” God into the building, and we carry Him out. Because He lives within us, and not in the temple any more. So rather keep your body holy and clean, and forget about the building.
Be blessed
Niel