Is it Darker Than we May Think, And more Deadlier in what it Appears, IS the Watchman Not on The WALL

[PloughBoy]

(Isaiah 21)BSB
"For this is what the Lord says to me:
Go, station the lookout, have him report what he sees.
“When he sees a column of chariots, horsemen in pairs,
A train of donkeys, a train of camels,
He is to pay close attention, very close attention.” Then the lookout called,
“Lord, I stand continually by day on the watchtower,
And I am stationed every night at my guard post.
“Now behold, here comes a troop of riders, horsemen in pairs.”
And one said, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon;
And all the images of her gods are shattered on the ground.”

I notice everything on a collective Basis. What kind of "creatures" had we become after the Fall in the Garden of EDEN. Threw the Collective Lens, of a regenerated soul. How could a Regenerated soul not want, for Jesus, to Hasten His return.

 

[PloughBoy]

 

[JerryfromMass]

Now that seems as bad as the teeming community of cockroaches I've see in some places. Shine the light and watch hundreds of them scatter back into the dark cracks and crevices of the walls and floors.

 

[JerryfromMass]

(Isaiah 21)BSB
"For this is what the Lord says to me:
Go, station the lookout, have him report what he sees.
“When he sees a column of chariots, horsemen in pairs,
A train of donkeys, a train of camels,
He is to pay close attention, very close attention.” Then the lookout called,
“Lord, I stand continually by day on the watchtower,
And I am stationed every night at my guard post.
“Now behold, here comes a troop of riders, horsemen in pairs.”
And one said, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon;
And all the images of her gods are shattered on the ground.”

I notice everything on a collective Basis. What kind of "creatures" had we become after the Fall in the Garden of EDEN. Threw the Collective Lens, of a regenerated soul. How could a Regenerated soul not want, for Jesus, to Hasten His return.

Atheists, communists, Marxists, and their one world order billionaire friends and financiers that advocate abortions on demand, abortion of "imperfect" babies, abortions during birth, killing children born that are later deemed unwanted, population control, euthenasia of the elderly and those with prolonged illnesses, are all doing the work of Satan.

COVID19 is of Satan. And so is the non-vaccine that the world is calling a vaccine. Vaccines prevent you from getting the disease. The COVID19 shot/shots is not a vaccine because you cam still get COVID19 after having the shot/shots.

 

[Brother Paul]

What is odd about this thread TO ME is that none of these things are matters of concern in the New Covenant writings with the exception of a one time mention regarding the One World Government (in Revelations) and we all should know that it is not given unto us to form doctrines on one passage alone. Some alleged watchmen (IMHO) are taking things and making them fit the preconceived notions we are concerned about. That being said, I do believe the line between the sheep and the goats is being more clearly defined, and that more and more we are entering into the time of the great falling away.

But I feel compelled to ask, when we read the actual words of the Lord in the New Covenant writings, what are HIS primary concerns that we should do, be, and focus on? Scriptures?

 

[B-A-C]

But I feel compelled to ask, when we read the actual words of the Lord in the New Covenant writings, what are HIS primary concerns that we should do, be, and focus on? Scriptures?

More than anything else, He taught about sharing the gospel with others, and loving others.
His longest sermon (by far) was about living righteously.
But if reference to this thread, he did mention watching and being sober and ready a number of times.

Jesus is speaking in all the verses below.

Matt 24:42 "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
Matt 24:43 "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
Matt 25:13 "Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.
Mark 13:33 "Take heed, keep on the alert; for you do not know when the appointed time will come.
Mark 13:34 "It is like a man away on a journey, who upon leaving his house and putting his slaves in charge, assigning to each one his task, also commanded the doorkeeper to stay on the alert.
Mark 13:35 "Therefore, be on the alert—for you do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether in the evening, at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning—
Mark 13:37 "What I say to you I say to all, 'Be on the alert!'"
Luke 12:37 "Blessed are those slaves whom the master will find on the alert when he comes; truly I say to you, that he will gird himself to serve, and have them recline at the table, and will come up and wait on them.
Luke 21:36 "But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man."

Matt 24:38; "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
Matt 24:39; and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Matt 24:40; "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
Matt 24:41; "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
Matt 24:42; "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
Matt 24:43; "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
Matt 24:44; "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.
Matt 24:45; "Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time?

Luke 17:30; "It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.
Luke 17:31; "On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back.
Luke 17:32; "Remember Lot's wife.
Luke 17:33; "Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
Luke 17:34; "I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left.
Luke 17:35; "There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left.
Luke 17:36; ["Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."]
Luke 17:37; And answering they *said to Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said to them, "Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered."

I will say, all these verses are about you yourself keeping watch. Not about the "watchman" keeping watch.

 

[JerryfromMass]

What is odd about this thread TO ME is that none of these things are matters of concern in the New Covenant writings with the exception of a one time mention regarding the One World Government (in Revelations) and we all should know that it is not given unto us to form doctrines on one passage alone. Some alleged watchmen (IMHO) are taking things and making them fit the preconceived notions we are concerned about. That being said, I do believe the line between the sheep and the goats is being more clearly defined, and that more and more we are entering into the time of the great falling away.

But I feel compelled to ask, when we read the actual words of the Lord in the New Covenant writings, what are HIS primary concerns that we should do, be, and focus on? Scriptures?

Our focus is to be on following HIM, Yeshua Messiah, HIS teachings, HIS commands, and HIS return.

 

[PloughBoy]

I am quite sure we all could have a lot to say, especially if we are "bondslaves" and "Jesus Christ" is our "Master" [LORD]. AND in any masters house, there are slaves and each one has duties, and each one takes orders from his lord, and takes orders not from another. And His Lord speaks face to face to his own.

"But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour."

Bishops' Bible of 1568
"Iesus sayth vnto hym: If I wyll haue hym to tary tyll I come, what is that to thee? folowe thou me."

 

[PloughBoy]

What is odd about this thread TO ME is that none of these things are matters of concern in the New Covenant writings with the exception of a one time mention regarding the One World Government (in Revelations) and we all should know that it is not given unto us to form doctrines on one passage alone. Some alleged watchmen (IMHO) are taking things and making them fit the preconceived notions we are concerned about. That being said, I do believe the line between the sheep and the goats is being more clearly defined, and that more and more we are entering into the time of the great falling away.

But I feel compelled to ask, when we read the actual words of the Lord in the New Covenant writings, what are HIS primary concerns that we should do, be, and focus on? Scriptures?

your quote:
"What is odd about this thread TO ME is that none of these things are matters of concern in the New Covenant writings with the exception of a one time mention regarding the On World Government (in Revelations) and we all should know that it is not given unto us to form doctrines on one passage alone."

I don't know what you are talking about either. I think you are talking about the Things of the world. And placing them into a "biblical perspective" I am not! If your view is a worlds view in pertaining to this "Thread" it would be very disappointing to you. But I am referring to things "outside" of that box, for those things are "Temporary" that are inside of the "box".

PS "The New Covenant reveals or uncovers The Old Covenant". You cannot really understand the Purpose of The Old unless The New has been unveil to reveal the OLD. "New Testament Introduction 101". Beginning also with "Types and Shadows" "The Simplicity of Christ"

For as "Doctrine" is concerning. i have none. I am not "educated enough" to form a "Doctrine" in any field, neither do I have the "credentials" or the Authority of any 'body' to do so, or arrange a committee to do so.

"Therefore, since you have been raised with Christ, strive for the things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things."

If we view things in the Flesh, it profits nothing.

American Standard Version ( Jesus said) John 6:63
It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, and are life.

 

[PloughBoy]

John 12:46
I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in Me should remain in darkness.
John 3:19
And this is the verdict: The Light has come into the world, but men loved the darkness rather than the Light because their deeds were evil.

John 7:7
The world cannot hate you, but it hates Me, because I testify that its works are evil.

John 9:39
Then Jesus declared, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind may see and those who see may become blind."

John 12:46
I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in Me should remain in darkness.
John 5:44
How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?


Ephesians 6:12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world's darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

 

[Gregoryp]

Call out sin and lies, preach the true gospel, not the fake one that organised religion promotes. Do not be frightened of who you follow and proclaim your values and ethics loudly. We need to show that real christians (of which there are very very few) are different from the house bricks who live here, and there is an alternative to tyranny and injustice. We are in this world , not of this world. Jesus and the heavenly realm must have priority at all times.

 

[PloughBoy]

It is Darker than we may think. This world is in bad shape. and most christians cannot even see in the light. It is bad throughout the world. And must only care so far as they can see in front of their own front yard. And they don't want to see and feel the pain. I am reminded through the day the words of Jesus:

(Luke 10).
But when you enter a town and are not welcomed, go into its streets and say, ‘Even the dust of your town we wipe from our feet as a warning to you. Yet be sure of this: The kingdom of God has come near.’ I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town.

“Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. But it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. "

I knew this world is bad, but not this bad! and I and not talking about violence! But Evil and Wickedness! The very Root, clothe in full "Makeup" and pointing the fingers. Not Gender Sensitive! gad in creed.

1 Timothy 6:9
Those who want to be rich, however, fall into temptation and become ensnared by many foolish and harmful desires that plunge them into ruin and destruction.
2 Timothy 3:2
For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,

People are really suffering in this World, and the only solution is for "JESUS Return". just like HE "Promise"!

Revelation 22:7
"Behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of prophecy in this book."
Berean Study Bible (Revelation 22:20)
He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

When I 1st read this, about what John the Baptist said; I fell out laughing!
(Matthew 11)BSB
"Meanwhile John heard in prison about the works of Christ, and he sent his disciples to ask Him, “Are You the One who was to come, "or should we look for someone else?”"

They where getting ready to cut John the Baptist head off! He wanted to know was He the Messiah, because you cutting it too close

 

[Sue D.]

A question -- why call it New Covenant writings instead of New Testament writings. There are Many Covenants -- but only the Old and New Testaments in the Bible.

 

[Garee]

A question -- why call it New Covenant writings instead of New Testament writings. There are Many Covenants -- but only the Old and New Testaments in the Bible.

Testimony testifies to a covenant the word of God is the testimony God has spoken as the witness of God. It provides the covenants plural.

In that way there are two witnesses that make up the one witness of God. The old refers to the letter of the law what the eyes see the letter (death) it reveals our guilt .It is signified by Moses. The other the New Testament the law of faith called the prophets the unseen power of the Holy Spirt working within signified by Elias.

To the law and the prophets (both) if they speak not according to the combined testimony then they have no place in Christianity.

In the parable below Peter is not walking by faith he literalized the vision as if Moses and Elias were literally there in the flesh .Not mixing the law of faith in what he did see .

Twice to emphasize he uses the metaphor Moses and Elijah to represent the two different laws as the one witness of God .The just, signified by Moses and justifier, signified as Elijah

Matthew 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias

Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

Romans 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

2 Corinthians 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

 

[PloughBoy]

Defining a Difference Between Covenants and Testaments | Pilgrim Ministry

www.pilgrimministry.org

for those who want to know, that we all speak one mind.

 

[BunnyOnion]

(Isaiah 21)BSB
"For this is what the Lord says to me:
Go, station the lookout, have him report what he sees.
“When he sees a column of chariots, horsemen in pairs,
A train of donkeys, a train of camels,
He is to pay close attention, very close attention.” Then the lookout called,
“Lord, I stand continually by day on the watchtower,
And I am stationed every night at my guard post.
“Now behold, here comes a troop of riders, horsemen in pairs.”
And one said, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon;
And all the images of her gods are shattered on the ground.”

I notice everything on a collective Basis. What kind of "creatures" had we become after the Fall in the Garden of EDEN. Threw the Collective Lens, of a regenerated soul. How could a Regenerated soul not want, for Jesus, to Hasten His return.

I think the biblical text accounts of the actual fall of Babylon . King Cyrus of Persia conquered Babylon in 539 B.C. That is less than a century after Babylon's founding.

Perhaps America or the west are the figurative Babylon today?

The question about our wanting Jesus to hasten his return?
I think we need remember what comes with that. Armageddon. Isaiah 66.

Maybe we might remind ourselves in these moments that all things are predestined, foreordained, by the fathers will and plan.

In God's good time. Who are we to question the timetable? Especially when we consider the events of Armageddon.

 

[PloughBoy]

I have been warning many, something is not right, a lot of things they are not telling us. And I believe, that these governments are kinda scared, and they are just hoping things will just turn out right. Because things are popping up everywhere. We are called also too observe. and some of us are commanded to tell others to Observe.
(Matthew 28: 19, 20)BSB
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to [obey] all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”"

Who are we to make "disciples" of? All Nations. And teach them what?

Geneva Bible of 1587 (Matthew 28:20)
Teaching them to obserue all things, whatsoeuer I haue commanded you: and lo, I am with you alway, vntill the ende of the worlde, Amen.

Bishops' Bible of 1568(Matthew28:20)
Teachyng the to obserue all thynges, whatsoeuer I haue commaunded you. And loe, I am with you alway, euen vnto the ende of the worlde.

IF we are not observing things, but just repeating these same things over and over like a broken record, that could be called "stuck in a Loop" subroutine.
which seems to be a never ending story. "tithes and offerings", "Tongues and Healings", Interpreting tongues and prophesying. divorce and remarrying, should i change churches, how can i find my gift, how do i know the will of God for my life? Will God send me my mate? I do not think my mate was GOD's choice for me. "stuck for 30 years in a Loop subroutine" Now that is what, one might Call Christianity 20th, 21st century. a Continuous Loop subroutine.

Go's no further only just within the 'Loop Subroutine' and this is "christianity" for them. then every now and then, they may look out of the window and get a glimpse of sometime but they are not sure what it is.

Example:
New King James Version (Amos 6:1)
"Woe to you who are at ease in Zion, And trust in Mount Samaria, Notable persons in the chief nation, To whom the house of Israel comes!"

PS. If GOD and Jesus was like Modern day christianity. one would get bored and some would "Return to The Vomit and wallow in the MUD"

 

[PloughBoy]

More than anything else, He taught about sharing the gospel with others, and loving others.
His longest sermon (by far) was about living righteously.
But if reference to this thread, he did mention watching and being sober and ready a number of times.

Jesus is speaking in all the verses below.

Matt 24:42 "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
Matt 24:43 "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
Matt 25:13 "Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour.
Mark 13:33 "Take heed, keep on the alert; for you do not know when the appointed time will come.
Mark 13:34 "It is like a man away on a journey, who upon leaving his house and putting his slaves in charge, assigning to each one his task, also commanded the doorkeeper to stay on the alert.
Mark 13:35 "Therefore, be on the alert—for you do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether in the evening, at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning—
Mark 13:37 "What I say to you I say to all, 'Be on the alert!'"
Luke 12:37 "Blessed are those slaves whom the master will find on the alert when he comes; truly I say to you, that he will gird himself to serve, and have them recline at the table, and will come up and wait on them.
Luke 21:36 "But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man."

Matt 24:38; "For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
Matt 24:39; and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Matt 24:40; "Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
Matt 24:41; "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
Matt 24:42; "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming.
Matt 24:43; "But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what time of the night the thief was coming, he would have been on the alert and would not have allowed his house to be broken into.
Matt 24:44; "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will.
Matt 24:45; "Who then is the faithful and sensible slave whom his master put in charge of his household to give them their food at the proper time?

Luke 17:30; "It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.
Luke 17:31; "On that day, the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house must not go down to take them out; and likewise the one who is in the field must not turn back.
Luke 17:32; "Remember Lot's wife.
Luke 17:33; "Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.
Luke 17:34; "I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left.
Luke 17:35; "There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left.
Luke 17:36; ["Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."]
Luke 17:37; And answering they *said to Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said to them, "Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered."

I will say, all these verses are about you yourself keeping watch. Not about the "watchman" keeping watch.

and they hated every word he spoke. and in the end the crowd shouted:

(LUKE 23)BSB
"But they all cried out in unison: “Away with this man! Release Barabbas to us!” ...(Barabbas had been imprisoned for an insurrection in the city, and for murder.)
Wanting to release Jesus, Pilate addressed them again, ...but they kept shouting, “Crucify Him! Crucify Him!”
A third time he said to them, “What evil has this man done? I have found in Him no offense worthy of death. So after I punish Him, I will release Him.”
But they were insistent, demanding with loud voices for Jesus to be crucified. And their clamor prevailed. ...So Pilate sentenced that their demand be met. ..As they had requested, he released the one imprisoned for insurrection and murder, and handed Jesus over to their will."

(Mark 15)BSB
"So Pilate asked them again, “What then do you want me to do with the One you call the King of the Jews?” ...And they shouted back,“Crucify Him!” 14“Why?” asked Pilate. “What evil has He done?” But they shouted all the louder, “Crucify Him!”…

So it was yesterday, so it is Today, in "Emily Post" [Style] Etiquette. "CRUCIFY Him"!

"And they hated Him without a cause"

And they hated HIM, for saying such things as: "watch because you know not what hour"

(Matthew 24)BSB

"Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. ...Therefore Keep Watch , because you do not know the day on which YOUR LORD will come.

Matthew 24:43
But understand this: If the homeowner had known in which watch of the night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into.

Mark 13:33-37
Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is…

Luke 21:36
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

PS Your enemy does not want you to watch! For he wants you into totally "Dis Obedience" of What "The Word of GOD" has told you.; "crumb by crumb" until you have given up the whole lump. "A little Leaven, leavens the whole lump"

Keep watch and stay on The WALL! THE "ANTHROPOMORPHIC" "Words in "Biblical Form" concerning The Biblical Text!

New American Standard Bible
The Lord GOD has given Me the tongue of disciples, So that I may know how to sustain the weary one with a word. He awakens Me morning by morning, He awakens My ear to listen as a disciple.

 

[Brother Paul]

your quote:
"What is odd about this thread TO ME is that none of these things are matters of concern in the New Covenant writings with the exception of a one time mention regarding the On World Government (in Revelations) and we all should know that it is not given unto us to form doctrines on one passage alone."

I don't know what you are talking about either. I think you are talking about the Things of the world. And placing them into a "biblical perspective" I am not! If your view is a worlds view in pertaining to this "Thread" it would be very disappointing to you. But I am referring to things "outside" of that box, for those things are "Temporary" that are inside of the "box".

PS "The New Covenant reveals or uncovers The Old Covenant". You cannot really understand the Purpose of The Old unless The New has been unveil to reveal the OLD. "New Testament Introduction 101". Beginning also with "Types and Shadows" "The Simplicity of Christ"

For as "Doctrine" is concerning. i have none. I am not "educated enough" to form a "Doctrine" in any field, neither do I have the "credentials" or the Authority of any 'body' to do so, or arrange a committee to do so.

"Therefore, since you have been raised with Christ, strive for the things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things."

If we view things in the Flesh, it profits nothing.

American Standard Version ( Jesus said) John 6:63
It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, and are life.

Mostly referred to post #4 but I was out using my phone. I should have quoted

 

[Gregoryp]

What is odd about this thread TO ME is that none of these things are matters of concern in the New Covenant writings with the exception of a one time mention regarding the One World Government (in Revelations) and we all should know that it is not given unto us to form doctrines on one passage alone. Some alleged watchmen (IMHO) are taking things and making them fit the preconceived notions we are concerned about. That being said, I do believe the line between the sheep and the goats is being more clearly defined, and that more and more we are entering into the time of the great falling away.

But I feel compelled to ask, when we read the actual words of the Lord in the New Covenant writings, what are HIS primary concerns that we should do, be, and focus on? Scriptures?

sadly, I am finding more goats than sheep these days. even those who I assumed to be rightouess and upright christians. As soon as I point out the world as they knew it is well and truly over, they wont believe. For them it business a usual. This includes my own brother who was saved a very long time ago during a billy graham crusade here in Australia. You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him think.