Israel's Coming War

Eric E Stahl · Apr 2, 2014

rserge · Jun 19, 2014

A fire or flame can represent Holy Spirit too cant it? Could he be talking about the Spirit? None remaining in House of Esau could mean that they are finally converted spiritually rather than in a nuclear war of FIRE.

Psalm 83 war sounds like somebody was thinking 1983 in Beirut, Lebanon. Marine Barracks.

Eric E Stahl · Jul 25, 2014

I accepted Jesus into my heart but that did not take me away. All the Palastinians that have not accepted Jesus by the day of the Lord will die.

rodd · Aug 22, 2014

Can't see it this way personally, thought they would gather in Jerusalem to fight against the Lord and the angels when he returned to Jerusalem to depose the Antichrist.
Under the new covenant I thought born again people were Israel?
Just a thought!

Eric E Stahl · Aug 23, 2014

We are grafted into the true Israel (ADDED TO)but we do not replace Israel.

Eric E Stahl · Aug 23, 2014

[h=2]rserge

Zechariah[/h] 7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

DHC · Aug 23, 2014

Eric E Stahl said:
We are grafted into the true Israel (ADDED TO)but we do not replace Israel.

Hello Eric.

Noticed the following line of yours.

We are grafted into the true Israel

May I ask if you know of any verses that support this idea.

Eric E Stahl · Aug 23, 2014

DHC said:
Hello Eric.

Noticed the following line of yours.

May I ask if you know of any verses that support this idea.

DHC,

Study all of Romans chapter 11 for better understanding.
<style>  </style> Romans 11:1-2,21-27
1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

DHC · Aug 23, 2014

Eric E Stahl said:
DHC,
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Hello Eric.

Thanks for the reply to my request Eric, for the verses that support your statement.

You had stated that believers are grafted into the true Israel, post #5.

We are grafted into the true Israel (ADDED TO)but we do not replace Israel.

Then you quoted from (Romans 11) to support this idea.

Here are the two verses from Romans in particular, that you use to support the idea
that Gentile believers become a true Israel.

Romans 11
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree:
how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

If you carefully read these two verses Eric, you should see that the Gentiles are referred to as
branches of a wild olive tree.

You should also see that Israel are also referred to as 'natural branches'.

Now the 'natural branches' being Israelite believers are grafted into 'their own olive tree'.

It does not say that the natural branches are grafted into the true Israel.

Nor does it say Eric, that the wild Gentile branches are grafted into the true Israel.

Once again Eric may I ask for the verses that support the following idea of yours.

We are grafted into the true Israel (ADDED TO)but we do not replace Israel.

rodd · Aug 23, 2014

True Israel was always those with Abraham's special gift of faith, the rest perished, the fig tree withered it was cursed (the nation), there is no other Israel but the church. Why are some Christians so fooled that they somehow still believe there's unique election for those people that call themselves Jews, I'm not sure.
Maybe their teachers themselves were brainwashed and bought into false teaching also.
"It's spiritual rebirth into a spiritual people," if you keep looking at the physical and become emotionally attached you will be brainwashed! but there is no favouritism!(ethnic)
People that haven't understood this truth have serious biases so as to even excuse inhuman crimes, and the same are anti abortion?
The brainwash has worked well.
Israel has always been the faith elect whether Jew or Gentile, the Jew once had an advantage in a natural sense(their culture) but since Christ no more. Eric you need to adjust your beliefs.

tulsa 2011 · Aug 24, 2014

In Romans 11: 17-20 Paul writes about those of Old Covenant Israel who were cut off because of unbelief, and we know that they were cut off because they rejected Christ. Then in Romans 11: 23,-24 Paul says if the people of Old Covenant Israel do not continue in unbelief, they can be put back in to the metaphoric good olive tree of verse 24. He says "how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?"

Here in Romans 11; 24 - "how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?" - the basic mistake of dispensatonalism may be shown.

The division between the multitude and the remnant is important here, and so is accepting Christ and being born again.

If those of Old Covenant Israel were broken off because they rejected Christ, then that majority or multitude who continue to reject Christ are not part of the good olive tree. Only when those of Old Covenant Israel accept Christ and are born again are they part of the good olive tree. And that good olive tree cannot be Old Covenant Israel whose majority - the multitude - rejected Christ. The good olive tree has to be that Israel Paul distinguishes from Israel after the flesh in Romans 2: 28-29, in Romans 9: 6-8 and in Galatians 4:24-25. He writes again about Israel after the flesh in I Corinthians 10: 18, and in Galatians 3: 3-29 he explains that anyone, regardless of genetics, who is in Christ, is the seed of Abraham and heir to the promise, meaning entry into the kingdom of God is not by the physical any more, that is, by genetics from Abraham.

So, in Romans 11: 24, when Paul writes about it being easy for those who are the natural branches of the good olive tree to be grafted into their own olive tree, you have to understand from verse 23 that he is talking about those of Old Covenant Israel - the remnant (verse 5) - who accepted Christ and were born again being grafted into their own olive tree. Those who rejected Christ are cut off and are no longer part of the good olive tree which is Israel reborn in Christ. If you argue that scripture does not say this, then you are arguing against John 3: 1-7.

The dispensationalists may say they do not take Romans 11: 23-24 to mean that the good olive tree is Old Covenant Israel, but that is exactly what they are doing in their doctrines, and one of the reasons for their zeal about honoring Old Covenant Israel is that they somehow believe their salvation hinges on their honoring of Old Covenant Israel. In Revelation 13: 12 the second beast, the False Prophet, causes people to worship - or honor - the first beast whose deadly wound was healed, and this first beast is the Little Horn of Daniel 7: 8, the nation of Israel.

It is not hard to find quotes by the early dispensationalists saying that God now has two peoples, the Jews, meaning Old Covenant Israel, and the Church, and later dispensationalists say the same thing. J. Dwight Pentecost in his book Things To Come ( 1965) says "The church and Israel are two distinct groups with whom God has a divine plan. "Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne so that in eternity, '...never the twain, Israel and church, shall meet." Lewis S. Chafer, Systematic Theology (Dallas, Dallas Seminary Press, 1975), Vol. 4. pp. 315-323.......For dispensationalists Israel must always mean Old Covenant Israel, and none other.

The good olive tree of Romans 11: 24 has as its root Jesus Christ (verse 16, no one is holy except Christ), and it is Israel reborn in Christ, and the Israel of God of Galatians 6: 16. Saying the ekklesia (church) is Israel reborn in Christ gets confusing because Christian congregations are not made up only of the Body of Christ, the elect.

rodd · Aug 24, 2014

That's right, neither are the congregations of saints all born again, as scripture teaches and not all Israel. But I do believe that little horn of Daniel is the "false Israel of anti-Christ that rises through the particular UN leader nations, these being not Christian as imagined or professed but masonic and occult.

These zionist's arranged the emergence of this present state of Israel through warfare and by means fair or foul, and under the obligation of the Balfour Agreement got their way.
When scripture speaks of Gog and Magog invading the land that had just recovered from war, it's talking about that time of military acquisition of Palestine after WW2.
The ten horns are the ten founding nations of the UN, see "Inter-allied Declaration," which was the 1st step in forming the UN, Sept 24, 1941, only 7 years later Israel was declared a nation. (little horn).
Satan continues working to occupy and consolidate through support of the nations the ground he knows he needs to defend at the second coming of Christ, while occupying his place of authority. Satan and his servants hands have been forced to take this action, it's his natural counter move knowing what's coming.

At the moment we see any thing but wall-less villages and towns living in peace since the Zionist's took control, no this scripture was fulfilled when they invaded the land in 1948-9.
These are the people of Gog and Magog and we are the true Israel, this is one of the great deceptions before Christ returns.

tulsa 2011 · Aug 24, 2014

Since the nation of Israel, based on Talmudic Judaism, a post-70 AD continuation of the religion of the Pharisees, rejects Christ, the nation of Israel is itself anti-Christ. In Ezekiel 38: 11, Gog and Magog go against a land of unwalled villages where the people live in safety, which is not the nation of Israel. This is a clue that the Gog and Magog "war" is metaphoric. Gog and Magog are not literal nations or parts of nations, but are two forces of Satan, just as the spirit of anti-Christ and the False Prophets, as well as Death and Hell are two divisions of the house of the devil. Gog and Magog in Ezekiel 38 "war" against the Israel of God, or Israel reborn in Christ in the latter days. The valley of decision of Joel 3:14 refers to the same thing. Ezekiel 37 is about giving spiritual life to a spiritually dead Old Covenant Israel, and this Israel which was given spiritual life in Christ is "attacked" in Ezekiel 38 by the huge number of false prophets to diminish that spiritual life
.

rodd · Aug 24, 2014

tulsa 2011 said:
Since the nation of Israel, based on Talmudic Judaism, a post-70 AD continuation of the religion of the Pharisees, rejects Christ, the nation of Israel is itself anti-Christ. In Ezekiel 38: 11, Gog and Magog go against a land of unwalled villages where the people live in safety, which is not the nation of Israel. This is a clue that the Gog and Magog "war" is metaphoric. Gog and Magog are not literal nations or parts of nations, but are two forces of Satan, just as the spirit of anti-Christ and the False Prophets, as well as Death and Hell are two divisions of the house of the devil. Gog and Magog in Ezekiel 38 "war" against the Israel of God, or Israel reborn in Christ in the latter days. The valley of decision of Joel 3:14 refers to the same thing. Ezekiel 37 is about giving spiritual life to a spiritually dead Old Covenant Israel, and this Israel which was given spiritual life in Christ is "attacked" in Ezekiel 38 by the huge number of false prophets to diminish that spiritual life
.

Gog and Magog were the descendants of Japheth (Gen 10) and it's said in the Noahic prophesy (Gen 9:27) that they'll in the latter days, dwell in the tents of Shem (Semites) so we have a people living in the land who claim to be Jews who are not, in fact are Gentiles.
I don't know if you are aware of a nation that once existed called Khazaria, it was located between the Black and Caspian seas, it protected the Christian West from the Muslim East and so warlike were these people that they denied the huge Muslim armies conquest of Europe.
Their religion was that of Babylon's, the worship of sky god demons, and such was the depravity their king (the Kagan) sought a pacifying religion and found his answer in Talmudic Judaism. (common roots)
Wickipedia verifies the existence of this little known empire if you wish to investigate, it was direct north of Israel.

These were the descendents of Gog and Magog (sons of Attila) and the story goes that they converted to Judaism around 700AD. After the breakup of their Empire 1000~AD by the emerging Russian Empire and Gengis Khan, they scattered West and there became the ones we now consider as European Jews. From there they sought power through banking and funded governments, having their daughters marry into the royal households so as to rule the world.
It's a massive conspiracy but not one without substantial historic and present evidence. People have mysteriously died for trying to go public on this, and they say JFK was one.

Does Rev 3:9-10 refer to these current day people who now possess the land and profess to be Jews? In light of everything we know from scripture I think it's likely to be true, verse 10 talks as a latter day scenario the verse 9 prophesy.

DHC · Aug 25, 2014

tulsa 2011 said:
In Romans 11: 17-20 Paul writes about those of Old Covenant Israel who were cut off because of unbelief, and we know that they were cut off because they rejected Christ. Then in Romans 11: 23,-24 Paul says if the people of Old Covenant Israel do not continue in unbelief, they can be put back in to the metaphoric good olive tree of verse 24. He says "how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?"

If those of Old Covenant Israel were broken off because they rejected Christ, then that majority or multitude who continue to reject Christ are not part of the good olive tree. Only when those of Old Covenant Israel accept Christ and are born again are they part of the good olive tree. And that good olive tree cannot be Old Covenant Israel whose majority - the multitude - rejected Christ. The good olive tree has to be that Israel Paul distinguishes from Israel after the flesh in Romans 2: 28-29,

Hello Tulsa.

By any measure Tulsa this is a very difficult topic to understand.

You made the following claim.

The good olive tree has to be that Israel

There seems to be some confusion regarding the reading and understanding of some verses
written by Paul in his letter to the Romans. I will reproduce these two verses below from the KJV.

Romans 11 (KJV)
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted
in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree...

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature
into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their
own olive tree?

Some folk have been taught that the phrase 'good olive tree' is spiritual Israel?

Let us see whether the 'good olive tree' is in fact spiritual Israel.

Firstly the verses above refer to the people of Israel as the 'natural branches' (line 17, line 24).

Then we have the Gentiles believers mentioned as branches also, but branches from a wild olive tree (line 24).

Both the Jews and the Gentiles mentioned are the branches but never the olive tree itself.

It should be noted at this point, that any grafting that takes place, involves branches being added
or removed from 'the root and fatness of the olive tree'.

So to infer that the 'good olive tree' itself is spiritual Israel, would not be correct.

For the 'root and the fatness of the olive tree' is Christ, that which supplies nourishment is
not spiritual Israel in this metaphor. Spiritual Israel does not support the branches, Israel
cannot be the good olive tree. To infer that these branches are attached to a spiritual Israel
is clearly not what the text above is saying.

So when Gentiles are grafted into the good olive tree, the Gentiles are in fact grafted into Christ.
When an Israelite branch is grafted out of the olive tree, it means that the Israelite has been severed
from Christ.

Branches are not severed or attached to an entity such as Israel!

For the Olive tree itself is neither the church nor is it spiritual Israel, the text indicates that the
'good olive tree' is wholly Christ.

tulsa 2011 · Aug 25, 2014

A literalist "hermeneutic" can lead to the interpretation of Revelation 2: 9 and 3: 9 - the blasphemy of them that say they are Jews but are not - that these people are the Khazars. But saying the Khazars are the people who falsely claim to be Jews ignores Galatians 3: 3-29, that anyone, regardless of his genetics, who is in Christ is the seed of Abraham, and Romans 2: 28-29, that in Christ now a Jew is one inwardly by the Spirit, and no longer one outwardly by the flesh. Dispensationalism has agreed with and has not followed these two texts.

Revelation 2: 9 and 3: 9 is about the people who still claim to be Jews by the flesh, but are not Jews by the Spirit, and this is of the synagogue of Satan and is blasphemy. Dispensationalism, Hebrew Roots, Sacred Name Theology and Messianic Judaism tend to claim only Jews by the flesh are involved in Romans 2: 28-29 - if they deal with this text at all. But Galatians 3 says flesh, or genetics, is no longer what is meant by the seed from Abraham, but in Christ all are the seed regardless of flesh. There are no Jews after the flesh in Christ. Clinging to the doctrine that the flesh still provides a Jewish identity in the chosen people is another Gospel and another Christ.

Saying that Gog and Magog in Ezekiel 38: 2, Ezekiel 39: 6, and in Revelation 20: 8 remain literal nations, peoples, men or something also comes out of a literalist "hermeneutic." Just as Babylon was a city and place in what is now Iraq, but in Jeremiah 50 and 51 and in Revelation 17 and 18 becomes a metaphor, so Gog and Magog might refer in Genesis 10 to some guy, but later becomes metaphoric.

rodd · Aug 25, 2014

The Genesis prophecies directly relate to what I'm suggesting with regard to the invasion of Palestine in 1948, Jerusalem is being trampled on by the gentiles because Khazars aren't Jews they're Europeans.
Their language is called "Yiddish" it's the Khazarian language, not even remotely like Hebrew. All Jewish newspapers in New York are in Yiddish, there's been a massive push to get the younger generation speaking Hebrew especially in Israel.
The portraits of the Jew in the Middle Ages up to the 19th century has always been that they had hooked noses, this being genetic from their Khazar roots, Turkic, Hun, Mongel heritage. They were subversives in every surrogate state they infiltrated and remain united for their common cause, world dominance.
They were the leaders of bolshevism when they over through the Czar and murdered the Russian royal family, they run Russia today and they run America.

And that's the reason for a fake Battle of Armageddon, because those who were from parts north are already there, so called Russian Jews actually Khazars.
Jesus returns upon the Mount of Olives not the valley of Megiddo,.... the valley of Jehosphat is the Kedron valley looking across to the temple mount with the closed walls of the beautiful gate in direct line.
The Hebrew Har-Meggedon which was translated Armageddon means mountain of worshippers or congregation, it refers to the Temple Mount, not the Bekhar Valley. It's where Satan wants his earthly throne is these last times.

The false Armageddon view imagines no enemy within only enemies that are external, ...... how then can that fit with Antichrist being enthroned in the temple and the time of the two witnesses in Jerusalem?
All that stuff including the 40 year last generation failed because these people were false prophets, their focus is on the literal, which is right, but it's been distorted so as people look in the wrong direction and don't see the truth. Christians have been made to focus on Israel still as God's chosen, because of obligation to the chosen and the guilt trip psychology (holocaust) these one's inside can control and get away with anything.
This is the deception of those who claim to be Jews but are not.... Note it's not referring to those that claim to be Christian. It's definitely in the literal physical.

tulsa 2011 · Aug 25, 2014

"The false Armageddon view imagines no enemy within only enemies that are external, ...... how then can that fit with Antichrist being enthroned in the temple and the time of the two witnesses in Jerusalem?" This is dispensationalism. I see why you are insisting on the Khazars being the false Jews of Revelation 2: 9 and 3: 9 and the battle of Ezekiel 38 being literal.

rodd · Aug 26, 2014

tulsa 2011 said:
"The false Armageddon view imagines no enemy within only enemies that are external, ...... how then can that fit with Antichrist being enthroned in the temple and the time of the two witnesses in Jerusalem?" This is dispensationalism. I see why you are insisting on the Khazars being the false Jews of Revelation 2: 9 and 3: 9 and the battle of Ezekiel 38 being literal.

It's the same as other theology, clear understanding is in the total sum of all the parts, but many prophesy's have been hidden until the fullness of time for their disclosure as we know.
I don't know if you realize but the modern Jews are divided into people groups, the main two being Ashkenazi and Sephardic. In Chapter 10 of Genesis (table of nations) we see their true lineage in the genealogy of the sons of Japheth not the Semites through which the Hebrew nation came. (Sons of Ashkenaz through Japheth)

They identify themselves for who they are, sons of Japheth and Magog, Gomer and Tubal, those that in latter times would dwell in the tents of the Semites, in other words in the land of the Semites. This is fulfilled in Noah's prophesy in the time of the end, Gen 9:27.
Check for yourself about Ashkenazi Jews, they make up 90% of all that which we believe to be the Israelite race. What a massive re- think of generally accepted prophesy and indeed understanding of our world view would be required given this in indeed fact.

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