It's Complicated...

[Theo18]

Hi, I'm new to the boards and Christianity and I had a question about Christian identity.

I was born to a drug-using mother and placed in foster care immediately. Since then, I lived in about 10 different homes before eventually being adopted by a gay couple at age 14. I wasn't raised with religion, but since starting college, my Christian roommate and I have become very good friends. He has encouraged me to seek spiritual guidance and I am open to the idea, but I find many of the things some Christians say about homosexuality to be hurtful and offensive to the men who raised me as their son.

My question is this: Can I truly identify as Christian while maintaining my thoroughly liberal beliefs about homosexuality? I've read the scriptures on the subject, but honestly, I won't betray my parents for the sake of becoming religious.

 

[hischildaswell]

If by betray you mean, acknowledge their lifestyle as wickedness, but love them anyway?

 

[Theo18]

By betray, I mean follow a religion that believes that they are wicked.

 

[David777]

Dear Theo18

I love to see people like you treading the boards of Christianity.

Your parents adopted you, they obviously love you.

The sexual pursasion of your parents is not my business. Nor is it the business of any other Christian.

How far from the truth of Jesus Christ is the private information of your parents. Tell those Christians to mind there own business.

Keep pursuing Jesus Christ. His love for you is beyond our understanding. He gave his life so that you can have eternal life.

Welcome, into the extraordinary kingdom of the immortal, invisible, very loving, God.

 

[Iceman]

Hi, I'm new to the boards and Christianity and I had a question about Christian identity.

I was born to a drug-using mother and placed in foster care immediately. Since then, I lived in about 10 different homes before eventually being adopted by a gay couple at age 14. I wasn't raised with religion, but since starting college, my Christian roommate and I have become very good friends. He has encouraged me to seek spiritual guidance and I am open to the idea, but I find many of the things some Christians say about homosexuality to be hurtful and offensive to the men who raised me as their son.

My question is this: Can I truly identify as Christian while maintaining my thoroughly liberal beliefs about homosexuality? I've read the scriptures on the subject, but honestly, I won't betray my parents for the sake of becoming religious.

Yes of course. Forget the fundamentalist nonsense that surrounds the issue, and never let the fundies tell you what to think. The area of church ethics is an ever growing topic as humanity understands more and more about the world around it.

Christianity isn't supposed to be a dogmatic and controlling religion. It's about the salvation of the Gospel and the freedom of Christ.

 

[Jeff726]

It is true that Christianity isn't about dogma and control, but sin is still sin, regardless.

 

[Theo18]

Thanks so much for your replies; they are giving me a lot to think about. Jeff, while I understand that the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin, it also says that slavery is allowed and women who have relations before marriage should be killed. If Christians are able to ignore these verses, why are at least most of them so opposed to two people of the same gender being in love?

David & Iceman, I know that not all Christians are as traditional, but I don't know what denominations are and are not. Can you point me in the direction of the more accepting ones?

Thanks,
Theo

 

[Iceman]

Thanks so much for your replies; they are giving me a lot to think about. Jeff, while I understand that the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin, it also says that slavery is allowed and women who have relations before marriage should be killed. If Christians are able to ignore these verses, why are at least most of them so opposed to two people of the same gender being in love?

David & Iceman, I know that not all Christians are as traditional, but I don't know what denominations are and are not. Can you point me in the direction of the more accepting ones?

Thanks,
Theo

Hi Theo,

You'll probably find that even within denominations that individual churches can vary. One extreme example is that often Catholic churches can look and function like modern pentecostal churches. I have a friend who was in some big name Christian band there in the states who is actually Orthodox.

Finding a good church with a good community that is also theologically sound can be quite a challenge. Feel free to look and find somewhere you are comfortable.

 

[Sam Canvas]

the Bible ... also says that slavery is allowed and women who have relations before marriage should be killed. If Christians are able to ignore these verses, why are at least most of them so opposed to two people of the same gender being in love?

Theo,



I'm a Christian and I don't ignore those verses.

What I do do however is put them into the context of what the Bible says in its fullness -- in particular in the context of the New Testament and what God has done for us in Christ. That's a bigger theme for sure, but it's vital if we are to avoid ungrounded assumptions and distorting God's revelation to us.

This popular line of reasoning turns Scripture into a rough guide we can dismiss if it doesn't suit our point of view and lifestyle.

Secondly, although some refuse Bible teaching on the subject because of their opinions and outlook, it's worth taking a balanced look at what God's Word has to say about homosexuality. In-depth studies aren't possible in a forum but I'd highlight this verse:

“Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites…will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Cor. 6:9 NKJV).

The Greek word arsenokoitai used in this verse needs to be linked to the original language in Romans 1:24–27 where the writer (Paul) uses the words "males with males" (arsenes en arsenes). This directly denotes a perversion of the natural God-given order to sexual intimacy.

"In every instance in which the arsenokoit word group occurs in a context that offers clues as to its meaning (i.e., beyond mere inclusion in a vice list), it denotes homosexual intercourse" (C. Wayne Mayhall, Is Arsenokoitai Really That Mysterious? [Christian Research Institute]).

Can you truly identify yourself as a Christian while "maintaining my thoroughly liberal beliefs about homosexuality"? The answer has to be no. However, taking a humble yet firm stand against homosexuality is God-honouring.

God's ways are often unpopular but we shouldn't shrink from them for fear of causing offence.

Regards,

Sam

 

[Theo18]

So, suppose I agree with you that what my parents do is a sin. Which I don't. Am I to tell them, "Thanks for loving and supporting me, and paying my out-of-state tuition, but I've decided that I disapprove of your lifestyle." Doesn't that seem disrespectful? I don't mean to argue for the sake of arguing, but I can't accept a religion that doesn't accept my family.

 

[Boanerges]

All lost men are unclean in God's eyes. God's grace covers all who repent and come to Christ seeking new life. Homosexuality is the same as any other sin- it separates one from God.
The real measure of cruelty would be to not tell someone in trouble that they need a change- that is the ultimate unkindness.

 

[David777]

Growing revelation.

I thought Jesus came to save the lost.

I was not perfect when I became a Christian. Far from it. In fact, I was outside the kingdom of heaven. I had broken everyone of the ten commandments. Not that I even knew them. I did not know God.

Jesus forgave me, why, because that was His mission. He came to seek those that were lost. Thieves, liars, self-righteous, etc. This is not a liberal view.

Try not to put the cart (conviction) before the horse (salvation).

The Holy Spirit will convict regarding sin. Men do not convict regarding sin. This is what my bible says.

A Christian will become aware in time of thier shortcomings. Let the Holy Spirit do His work.

I have seen Christians repenting years into thier Christian life. Why?
Thier human that's why. Just like the rest of us. Sinners saved by Grace.

Theo's parents private business is thier private business, not our business. Theo needs to grow as a Christian. Why don't you let him. He already has hurdles to jump, why place other hurdles on the track.

A Christian grows by devoting themselves to Jesus. Not devoting themselves to the study of sin. Focus on that which is Holy.

Be gentle in your approach to others, not in thier face like some zealous pharisee. God will take care of the rest.

 

[Sam Canvas]

So, suppose I agree with you that what my parents do is a sin. Which I don't. Am I to tell them, "Thanks for loving and supporting me, and paying my out-of-state tuition, but I've decided that I disapprove of your lifestyle." Doesn't that seem disrespectful? I don't mean to argue for the sake of arguing, but I can't accept a religion that doesn't accept my family.

Hello Theo

Why should a Christian be compromised because of the lifestyle choices of family and friends – or anyone for that matter?

It’s not just about accepting what God (not “religion”) rejects – it’s also about how we love others and how we behave towards them when we don’t accept what they do.

I have a friend who turned his back on God and was heavily into a lifestyle that I, as a Christian, couldn’t accept. But I didn’t reject him personally or stop loving him. A good thing too, because in the end I was there for him when he was suicidal because of alcoholism, self-harm and depression. He’s married and settled now and has been attending church meetings.

Would you expect God to find his sinful behaviour acceptable? Did I reject God and His Word because He judged my best friend’s behaviour to be sinful?

(You don’t agree that homosexuality is wrong, so you won’t fully identify with the point I’m making.)

But whatever the wrong happens to be, in love God punished Christ for it instead of you, Theo – and me, and my best friend and your parents too, so that by trusting Him we are bought back, at a price. It’s impossible to imagine what Christ went through to offer us a way out. It’s a love that can’t be measured.

You owe your parents a lot, but that doesn’t justify overlooking or accepting even the slightest ‘sin’. Why would it?

Finally, it’s not disrespectful to reject key lifestyle choices of those you love and appreciate. They in turn, out of love for you, should respect your choices too. You don’t need to be abusive, unfriendly, cruel, etc.

The New Testament is overflowing with verses that tell us to be kind, gentle and loving, but that doesn’t mean we can simply step out of God’s will whenever it suits us to avoid disappointing others.

Don’t you think you’re focussing on the wrong issue when you suggest God doesn’t “accept” your family? In fact the crucial point is this: God doesn’t accept what they do.

Sam

 

[AudreyNicole]

Hello!!!

So I'm a college sophomore and I just recently gave my life to Christ too! Although i was born and raised in a Christian house. But firstly I just want to say I am SO HAPPY FOR YOU!! Like seriously, that is so cool that your roommate was able to introduce you to God... SUPER FABULOUS!!! So, anyway, WELCOME!!

One of the things you're going to have to deal with all throughout your Christian life is... well... other Christians. And sometimes those other Christians don't do a very good job of representing God. The number one reason why a lot of young Christians are hesitant about God is because of what they see in the church. There is a lot of hypocrisy and negativity in the Christian community (trust me), and that can cause one to wonder. BUT you must remember that they are people, not God... you don't trust in people, you trust in God.

Your case can be extra challenging because you probably won't have any family support in this new lifestyle. And that will cause you to seek other support, usually from other mature Christians around you. And if those Christians fail you, then you can feel betrayed and start to doubt everything- God, the Bible, Christianity- everything.

So here's my advice. Find some mature believers you can trust and who will guide you in God's truth, but never forget that the ultimate one you are following is God (not people, not church, not religion). When I was saved I was pretty hesitant about "becoming" a Christian too because I really had trouble accepting a lot of the principles they tend to hold. But after much research (aka Bible study) I've found that most of those principles are purely human prejudices and are not very Godly at all. I try to separate myself from the word Christian because I feel it has a lot of negative stereotype. And I definitely am not religious. I do not believe in religion- only God. So secure your relationship with the Lord, and don't worry about what Christians or religion says or thinks. You are a child of God, and as long as you ask, He will guide you and show you where to go... every day of your life.

Now, for your parents. They are gay you say, and yes that is wrong... its a sin. But I think that's kinda cool because it presents you with an incredible opportunity to share God's love even more. You definitely should not condemn them, or their lifestyle... because that will just lead to resentment. Just love them even more than you have been loving them, and ask God to strengthen the bond you have with them. God's love is all powerful and can do miraculous things, all you have to do is spread it. I think a lot of times Christians get caught up spreading hate, but I think we should all be busy spreading love. There is no need to treat your parents any differently (except to love them more) or think of them any differently now that you have this new lifestyle.

It seems like a difficult situation because of just how hot the topic is in the church community, but I think all sin is equal in "badness". So that means being gay is no worse a sin than cussing. When your friends cuss do you treat them any differently or think any less of them? Would you consider not "becoming" a Christian because it condemns cussing and that would hurt your relationship with your friends? Probably not. Well its the same with your parents. No issue in your life is big enough to keep God away, or to keep His love away. And no issue in your life should be big enough to keep you away from Him!.... because..... He will help you through anything and everything, and He will show you what to do.

Don't worry about what other people think, and don't stop loving your parents, love them even more! And give your life to Christ so He can show you exactly where to go and what to do. Who knows?! Maybe God will use you to bring the gay community and the Christian community closer together... Amazing things can and will happen!

Hope this helps

 

[jonoman]

Hey

I'm new here, been roaming around the forum and reading, taking in peoples opinions and what not, and wanted to start getting involved. I'm a 24 year old college student and also just re-discovered God after years of absence. I grew up in a heavily Christian home but as involved as I was in church never really fully accepted God or eventually got about as far away from Jesus as anyone could. Long story short, I wound up a hopeless drug addict living on the streets with nothing to my name, doing what I had to do to survive. Through the love of God and my family, who never gave up on me, I'm clean and have discovered Jesus all over again.

The reason I bring this up is because I can somewhat relate. Although I was committing about every sin in the book, the love of my family and other Christians, who attempt their very best to follow all the Bibles teachings, saved me. Had they condemned me, I would still be out there, or worse dead (I've been brought back to life numerous times). It was their love which saved me and brought me back to Jesus. And its been God who has given me my life back, because without Him and His guidance I am nothing. While I am nowhere near perfect, I am trying my best to follow His teachings. I am also trying to follow their example of not condemning sinners, no matter what the sins they commit may be. God has shown me that it is through love, not condemnation that we are saved and can help people. So if I were you, I would find a similar community who does not condemn sinners but loves them. They are out there. Personally, I do not condemn the addicts and sinners I know from my life before, but I love them and take every opportunity to show them Jesus. I hope I helped.

Also I second about everything Audrey said.

 

[vincent240]

Hi, I'm new to the boards and Christianity and I had a question about Christian identity.

I was born to a drug-using mother and placed in foster care immediately. Since then, I lived in about 10 different homes before eventually being adopted by a gay couple at age 14. I wasn't raised with religion, but since starting college, my Christian roommate and I have become very good friends. He has encouraged me to seek spiritual guidance and I am open to the idea, but I find many of the things some Christians say about homosexuality to be hurtful and offensive to the men who raised me as their son.

My question is this: Can I truly identify as Christian while maintaining my thoroughly liberal beliefs about homosexuality? I've read the scriptures on the subject, but honestly, I won't betray my parents for the sake of becoming religious.

Theo: put religion aside for now, and work on your relationship with Christ - that's first and foremost important. Your relationship with Christ is between Him and you, and noone can tamper with it so what you get is first-hand. The same can not be said about religion - people modify it to fit their agenda daily.

As for your parents' lifestyle, whether it's sin or not, let them deal with God. You must continue to love them as Christ loves you.

 

[abraham]

JC did not come to this world to have servants but to served mankind, he came to wipe our sins away.

All people fall short in the glory of God, but he gave his only begotten son so that we will have everlasting life.

Theo I believe that God is going to give you the strength and words to talk with your parent.

Peace!

 

[Christ4Ever]

Hi, I'm new to the boards and Christianity and I had a question about Christian identity.

I was born to a drug-using mother and placed in foster care immediately. Since then, I lived in about 10 different homes before eventually being adopted by a gay couple at age 14. I wasn't raised with religion, but since starting college, my Christian roommate and I have become very good friends. He has encouraged me to seek spiritual guidance and I am open to the idea, but I find many of the things some Christians say about homosexuality to be hurtful and offensive to the men who raised me as their son.

My question is this: Can I truly identify as Christian while maintaining my thoroughly liberal beliefs about homosexuality? I've read the scriptures on the subject, but honestly, I won't betray my parents for the sake of becoming religious.

From your post and from your “About Me” Theo18, I truly can’t tell if you’ve accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. You only mention that you’re new to Christianity. That you’re testing the waters before you leap to see if it will work for you because of x, y, or z is the impression I get, and really the crux of what we’re talking about here. Attempting to set preconditions on acceptance of what God has already offered the World, doesn’t work and never will. What you will find and come across in your search for a church and even here will be like minded folks, who have not submitted themselves and laid it all out there to God. However, there is hope, because you’ll also find the opposite to be found here as well!
Until you can come to the realization that you can’t do it alone, you know that you’re a sinner, know God sent His Son to die on the cross for your sins, and understand that none of us are worthy, until you can bring it all, I mean all, to God and ask for that forgiveness, knowing that after dying he rose on the third day! And laying it all on the line and ask to “Please come into my heart and make me yours! Until you can do that you’ll just be playing at religion like a lot of folks do, playing at being a Christian which happens more than you know as well. Sinners who have not repented of what they’ve done. Yeah, Theo18, you’ll find a lot of that going on, worldwide. Yet there is hope! That hope is in Jesus Christ. When you have laid it all on the line, you’ll be changing right away! You’ll have joy, pain, tears, fears, peace, and serenity and will continue to grow, change, become new! Yeah, you’ll be born again! (LOL right now, for the joy of it and I’m just typing this!)
The old memories that I bring up are only so I can tell folks that I’ve been there done that. Excuses can be found, by the hundreds, for not coming to the Lord. Until you can confront, not the actions or behaviors of others, but your own sins, and come to that realization that it’s those that have kept you from God, and that only by the shed blood of Jesus, can you be made white as snow, will you be able to take that step in which you readily accept Him as Lord and Savior! I’ve posted the following before and if you read my post you’ll recognize it. “If anyone is not Christian, I will not tell them they are wrong in what they are doing! Surprised? You shouldn’t be. Until they know the Lord they are not His children.” I won’t continue on with this, but remember one thing. It’s not about them, it’s about you! And you alone and only you can answer it, which is the same for all of us. Read these verses, and I pray that the Holy Spirit may convict your heart, and move you as He has moved so many before. Let the heavens rejoice! Romans 3:23, 3:10-18, 6:23, 5:8, 10:9, 10:13, John 3:16
I’ll be praying for you Theo18

 

[happyharold4]

So, suppose I agree with you that what my parents do is a sin. Which I don't. Am I to tell them, "Thanks for loving and supporting me, and paying my out-of-state tuition, but I've decided that I disapprove of your lifestyle." Doesn't that seem disrespectful? I don't mean to argue for the sake of arguing, but I can't accept a religion that doesn't accept my family.

Look at it this way---God has created a place for us, heaven/paradise----It will be without spot or blemish, not even the tiniest sin imaginable found there---And he has invited you, me and whosoever to join him there eternally----No fear,tears, crying, rape, murder, meanness, heartbreak, bad health, crippled or any other negative thing we may experience here---I am so grateful as a born again Christian that it is this way---If certain types of sin were allowed there, then it wouldn't be long before all of heaven would be as evil and wicked as it is here.

Don't make your long term decisions based on the needs or station in life of others----God loves you and your parents and has offered up His only begotten son as a sin offering to atone for your sins, my sins, your parents sins, and for the sins of the world at large irregardless of the type of sin---So most importantly we must all, (all because we are all sinners), receive His love towards us and the conviction of our own type of sin, repent of those sins and reach out to Him as a loving saviour to give us the willingness and strength to overcome those areas that are displeasing to Him.

Happy

 

[Theo18]

I'm sure my parents can't imagine heaven without each other, so it is unlikely they will be joining the ranks of the born-again. Aside from that, I now consider myself to be saved! It's been a busy month, seeing as along with that, I just had my 21st birthday and am getting married!