James 3:1

[Sue J Love]

What is your understanding of James 3:1, in particular the part about Christian teachers of the Word being judged with greater strictness? Judged how?

Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.

Bible Gateway passage: James 3 - English Standard Version (in context)

 

[B-A-C]

2 Pet 2:1; But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

Those who claim to be teachers of God's word better be sure they are right. Those who "secretly introduce destructive heresies" are in the same boat as false prophets.

I believe teachers and preachers (those who people look to for teaching) "WILL" be held to a higher standard, a stricter judgment. If you want to take responsibility for for what other people believe, you will take "ALL" of that responsibility.

Matt 18:6-7; Luke 17:1-2;

 

[Sue J Love]

2 Pet 2:1; But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

Those who claim to be teachers of God's word better be sure they are right. Those who "secretly introduce destructive heresies" are in the same boat as false prophets.

I believe teachers and preachers (those who people look to for teaching) "WILL" be held to a higher standard, a stricter judgment. If you want to take responsibility for for what other people believe, you will take "ALL" of that responsibility.

Matt 18:6-7; Luke 17:1-2;

Thanks! I appreciate your input.

 

[Lanolin]

Well as BAC pointed out...teachers have a greater responsibility to teach correctly.

If a student gets taught the wrong thing, and then end up doing things wrong because they followed the teachers instructions, who's fault is it, the students or the teachers?

 

[Sue J Love]

Well as BAC pointed out...teachers have a greater responsibility to teach correctly.

If a student gets taught the wrong thing, and then end up doing things wrong because they followed the teachers instructions, who's fault is it, the students or the teachers?

Thanks, @Lanolin and also @B-A-C but how do you believe they will be judged more strictly, if they are brothers or sisters in Christ? This is addressed to followers of Christ, and James includes himself in this when he says that we who teach will be judged more strictly. So, how will Christian brothers and sisters who teach be judged more strictly?

 

[Lanolin]

Well going back to James chapter three, if you read futher on James writes about the tongue to be careful what we say.

My KJV says 'my brethren, be not many masters, knowing we shall receive the greater comdemnation'.

If we lie against the truth...well its just the same as telling a lie. We dont teach out of bitter envying or strife as this is not Gods wisdom. Gods wisdom from above is without partiality or hypocrisy. If you are a teacher you are to be gentle and meek..look at the the way Jesus taught people. He had the gift evident even at 12 years of age.

To be a teacher and then not do as you teach is to be a hypocrite, basically and Jesus said woe! to hypocrites and blind guides. God takes this very seriously and will call into account every idle word we say.

All liars are shut out from the kingdom of God...it does say in Revelation 22:15

 

[Sue J Love]

Well going back to James chapter three, if you read futher on James writes about the tongue to be careful what we say.

My KJV says 'my brethren, be not many masters, knowing we shall receive the greater comdemnation'.

If we lie against the truth...well its just the same as telling a lie. We dont teach out of bitter envying or strife as this is not Gods wisdom. Gods wisdom from above is without partiality or hypocrisy. If you are a teacher you are to be gentle and meek..look at the the way Jesus taught people. He had the gift evident even at 12 years of age.

To be a teacher and then not do as you teach is to be a hypocrite, basically and Jesus said woe! to hypocrites and blind guides. God takes this very seriously and will call into account every idle word we say.

All liars are shut out from the kingdom of God...it does say in Revelation 22:15

But this is clearly talking to the brethren, i.e. to born again believers in Jesus Christ, and James included himself in the remarks when he said that "we" who teach will be judged more strictly. So, what I am trying to find out is how God will judge those who are his who are teachers of his Word. How would he have judged James more strictly, or Paul, or Peter? They were not Pharisees, although Paul used to be one. They were not hypocrites, though Peter at one time did act hypocritically. They did not practice lying. So, they would not be cast out of heaven, in other words, so how would they be judged more strictly, and on what basis? It has to do with the tongue, for certain. I am not asking for definitive answers here, just for thoughts on the subject, but I am looking for how, in your (everyone's) opinion, God will judge more strictly teachers of the Word who are truly his servants, as James certainly was one.

 

[B-A-C]

The Bible says everyone... yes "everyone" will be judged by their deeds. A lot of your deeds is simply what you do. But I believe more of it is what you do... that affects others. (which is more than we sometimes realize).

If I lie to you, that affects you. If I steal from you, that affects you. If I murder you.. well that probably affects you also.
But those things don't cause you to stumble. You're just a victim of the things I did to you.

If I teach you that homosexuality, adultery, idolatry, drunkenness and thievery is OK with God. You may be smart enough not be believe
I am telling you the truth, but it's amazing how many believe whatever they hear because the teacher is "a Christian". (including
many things in the list above) Now, not only are you a victim of what I did to you... all the people that you steal from, lie to, and have
illicit sex with are affected as well. I am responsible for telling you those things are OK, but I'm also responsible (to a lesser degree)
for the things you did to those people. Because you trusted me... you believed in your heart that what I was telling you was the truth.
The things I taught you, are causing you to stumble. You may not even think you are sinning.

Now that may seem like a silly example... admittedly most people are smart enough to know murder and stealing are wrong.
However when it comes to homosexuality and drunkenness.... well.... some people are more willing to accept those things.
Including a great many who call themselves "Christians".

I believe there are three kinds of teachers... good ones. (Paul, Peter, James, Jesus, etc...) some weren't perfect as you mentioned.
But they didn't teach others not to be.
Bad ones... (the Nicolaitans, Jezebel the prophetess, etc.. The Pharisees come to mind.. they did teach others the wrong things.
and people who who "think" they are good ones. But really aren't. (Ministers in liberal churches for example).

 

[Sue J Love]

The Bible says everyone... yes "everyone" will be judged by their deeds. A lot of your deeds is simply what you do. But I believe more of it is what you do... that affects others. (which is more than we sometimes realize).

If I lie to you, that affects you. If I steal from you, that affects you. If I murder you.. well that probably affects you also.
But those things don't cause you to stumble. You're just a victim of the things I did to you.

If I teach you that homosexuality, adultery, idolatry, drunkenness and thievery is OK with God. You may be smart enough not be believe
I am telling you the truth, but it's amazing how many believe whatever they hear because the teacher is "a Christian". (including
many things in the list above) Now, not only are you a victim of what I did to you... all the people that you steal from, lie to, and have
illicit sex with are affected as well. I am responsible for telling you those things are OK, but I'm also responsible (to a lesser degree)
for the things you did to those people. Because you trusted me... you believed in your heart that what I was telling you was the truth.
The things I taught you, are causing you to stumble. You may not even think you are sinning.

Now that may seem like a silly example... admittedly most people are smart enough to know murder and stealing are wrong.
However when it comes to homosexuality and drunkenness.... well.... some people are more willing to accept those things.
Including a great many who call themselves "Christians".

I believe there are three kinds of teachers... good ones. (Paul, Peter, James, Jesus, etc...) some weren't perfect as you mentioned.
But they didn't teach others not to be.
Bad ones... (the Nicolaitans, Jezebel the prophetess, etc.. The Pharisees come to mind.. they did teach others the wrong things.
and people who who "think" they are good ones. But really aren't. (Ministers in liberal churches for example).

Agreed! But, how do you believe we will be judged more strictly? Judged in what way? Some people say "loss of rewards," but what does that mean? Are we judged after we die or before? Is discipline (Heb. 12) part of that judgment, and we who are teachers are disciplined maybe more strongly, like Paul's thorn in the flesh, perhaps, in order to keep him from becoming conceited?

 

[B-A-C]

Judged in what way? Some people say "loss of rewards," but what does that mean? Are we judged after we die or before? Is discipline (Heb. 12) part of that judgment, and we who are teachers are disciplined maybe more strongly, like Paul's thorn in the flesh, perhaps, in order to keep him from becoming conceited?

I finally get what you are asking. Takes me a while some times.

I think He judges teaching the same way He judges everything else. We are judged in many ways many times. Sometimes we are disciplined.

God knows when we have crossed the point of no-return. He knows the future, He knows our hearts.

There are some people (i personally think the majority) that will simply go to hell because they were never saved, and never wanted to be.
I don't think God really blesses these people much in the ways that matter. They may be financially well-off, but they aren't happy, and they don't have peace.
Does He discipline them? I think He uses circumstances to make people come to Him. But I think He knows in advance whether they will or not.
For those who will never choose Him... why even bother to discipline them?

For those who have decided to follow Jesus... but sometimes drift. Those are the ones I think He disciplines. He tries to steer them back on course.

I think sometimes discipline is confused with testing. Job wasn't being disciplined, he was just being tested. The same with Peter and Abraham (sacrificing Isaac)
We don't always have to pass every test (Peter failed) but we need to pass "enough" of them. How many is enough? I think it's different for everyone. We may start off failing most of the time, but there should eventually reach a point where you are victorious more often than you are failing. In my own personal case, there are some sins that I simply don't do anymore. Haven't done in years. That's not to say I don't sin at all.

There are consequences for the things we do. Sometimes the judgment may be in a temporal way, we miss out financially, or have premature health problems,
or lose a job, or whatever God chooses to use. But these things aren't to drive you away from Him. These are to make you realize who He is and come back to Him.

If a way we are tested and judged almost everyday. It isn't a "I was tested once, and passed the test" type of thing. It's a continual testing.
Depending on how we do in the daily tests, that affects our eternal rewards and judgment.
So some of the tests and judgments are for "right now". Some of them are simply for rewards in heaven. But ultimately all of the tests are for where we spend eternity.

If you fail all of the tests all of the time... You will spend eternity in one place.
If you pass some (most?) of the tests some (most?) of the time you will spend eternity in a different place.
If you are pretending to pass the tests, or lying about passing the tests... thats the same as failing.
If you are failing out of ignorance... you are still failing.

People always want to know... well how many do I have to pass? what percentage? am I on a curved scale? I don't know the answer... I know there is a LOT
of grace. More than we can imagine, more than we deserve, and more than we can even thank Him for.

Why take a chance? Why even ask that question... how many is too much? I think simply asking that question reveals where your heart is.
If the speed limit is 50, we will go 60. If it's 60 we will go 70. We always want to test the limits of Gods grace. What if instead of seeing how much we can fail,
we tried to see how much we can succeed. (with God's help).

But those people who go on practicing lawlessness, or let their lamps run out of oil, or soil their garments, or return to their vomit, or go on sinning willfully,
or turn the grace of God into licentiousness, or simply "believe for a while". There is a limit to grace.

God knows what we can take, He knows what we can stand. We are never tempted beyond what we can stand, and He always gives us a way out.
(We never have to sin). His grace is sufficient for us. One day we will ALL stand before Him. The judgments and tests we get today and tomorrow don't matter that
much from day to day... but over a 80 years period they add up. Maybe you failed a lot years ago. But how are you doing now? Are you still failing most of the time?

The judgment for that isn't just for today and tomorrow. It's for eternity.

 

[Sue J Love]

I finally get what you are asking. Takes me a while some times.

I think He judges teaching the same way He judges everything else. We are judged in many ways many times. Sometimes we are disciplined.

God knows when we have crossed the point of no-return. He knows the future, He knows our hearts.

There are some people (i personally think the majority) that will simply go to hell because they were never saved, and never wanted to be.
I don't think God really blesses these people much in the ways that matter. They may be financially well-off, but they aren't happy, and they don't have peace.
Does He discipline them? I think He uses circumstances to make people come to Him. But I think He knows in advance whether they will or not.
For those who will never choose Him... why even bother to discipline them?

For those who have decided to follow Jesus... but sometimes drift. Those are the ones I think He disciplines. He tries to steer them back on course.

I think sometimes discipline is confused with testing. Job wasn't being disciplined, he was just being tested. The same with Peter and Abraham (sacrificing Isaac)
We don't always have to pass every test (Peter failed) but we need to pass "enough" of them. How many is enough? I think it's different for everyone. We may start off failing most of the time, but there should eventually reach a point where you are victorious more often than you are failing. In my own personal case, there are some sins that I simply don't do anymore. Haven't done in years. That's not to say I don't sin at all.

There are consequences for the things we do. Sometimes the judgment may be in a temporal way, we miss out financially, or have premature health problems,
or lose a job, or whatever God chooses to use. But these things aren't to drive you away from Him. These are to make you realize who He is and come back to Him.

If a way we are tested and judged almost everyday. It isn't a "I was tested once, and passed the test" type of thing. It's a continual testing.
Depending on how we do in the daily tests, that affects our eternal rewards and judgment.
So some of the tests and judgments are for "right now". Some of them are simply for rewards in heaven. But ultimately all of the tests are for where we spend eternity.

If you fail all of the tests all of the time... You will spend eternity in one place.
If you pass some (most?) of the tests some (most?) of the time you will spend eternity in a different place.
If you are pretending to pass the tests, or lying about passing the tests... thats the same as failing.
If you are failing out of ignorance... you are still failing.

People always want to know... well how many do I have to pass? what percentage? am I on a curved scale? I don't know the answer... I know there is a LOT
of grace. More than we can imagine, more than we deserve, and more than we can even thank Him for.

Why take a chance? Why even ask that question... how many is too much? I think simply asking that question reveals where your heart is.
If the speed limit is 50, we will go 60. If it's 60 we will go 70. We always want to test the limits of Gods grace. What if instead of seeing how much we can fail,
we tried to see how much we can succeed. (with God's help).

But those people who go on practicing lawlessness, or let their lamps run out of oil, or soil their garments, or return to their vomit, or go on sinning willfully,
or turn the grace of God into licentiousness, or simply "believe for a while". There is a limit to grace.

God knows what we can take, He knows what we can stand. We are never tempted beyond what we can stand, and He always gives us a way out.
(We never have to sin). His grace is sufficient for us. One day we will ALL stand before Him. The judgments and tests we get today and tomorrow don't matter that
much from day to day... but over a 80 years period they add up. Maybe you failed a lot years ago. But how are you doing now? Are you still failing most of the time?

The judgment for that isn't just for today and tomorrow. It's for eternity.

@B-A-C - Thank you for sharing these thoughts. Just one comment here, and that is that it seems that you see "discipline" as "punishment," but I don't see that it is always (See: Heb. 12), for God disciplines ALL whom he loves, and for our good, that we may share his holiness and bear the fruit of his righteousness. So, discipline is not always because we are doing something wrong, but in order to prune us and to purify us and to make us holy, which includes punishment (correction), but also includes training in godliness. And, I believe that trials and testings of our faith are included in that discipline, too, as they are also for our good and for our spiritual growth and maturity.

But, what I was not certain about was what constituted being judged more strictly, and if that was about discipline (correction or training) in this life or something after we die, and if so, what that would look like exactly. I think maybe Paul's thorn in the flesh might be a good example of divine discipline which was to keep Paul humble, but I am not certain it fits the context of being judged more strictly.

 

[Lanolin]

Well everyone regardless is going to be judged on their works, so God will look at people who are teachers and judge the standard of their teaching more than someone who is just learning. He will ask if you taught His word correctly, if you are dividing the Word properly etc.

If you arent He will correct you..and he may have others to show you a better way as James exhorted Peter and Paul in his day. I dont think you need to wait for a specific judgement day to know this!

Paul in turn wrote letters to Timothy (a younger teacher) encouraging him, showing him what to do and what not to do.

 

[Lanolin]

We can really only teach what we ourselves have learned from God. And he will continue to trach us everyday bit by bit line upon line precept on precept. If we are open to learning and studying His Word.