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Jesus is a Messenger from God & God is only ONE

SeekingTruth

Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
9
Hello All,

I'm a strong believer in Jesus as an honoured messenger from god whom is born from virgin Mary. However, I see nothing in the Bible which conform to the theory of (3 gods / 3 gods in 1/ jesus begotten son of god etc...).

Jesus never asked to be worshipped:
John 8:50 • I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge.
John 14:28 • If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
Deuteronomy 6:4 • Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

God Also said:
Exodus 20:4 • You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.
Exodus 20:5 • You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God.


So the Bible made it clear that Jesus is an honored Messenger just like Moses and Abraham who were sent to worship 1 god. As Jesus Himself described:
John 5:30 • By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.



And this is why I believe firmly in Jesus as a Messenger Sentfrom God, but not as a god himself or a 'begotten' son of god, because god is too great as he describes himself to bear a child!


I have many more passages to follow, but I will not put all of them up right now because I would like to be interactive with people here... :embarasse
 
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Seeking Truth, a major biblical error exists in your belief about. He is the begotten son of God(John 1:14,18;3:16). Our belief must be based on God's word or else it does not stand the test of proper biblical criticism. Keep seeking!
 
Yes, these are words written in much later centuries which were not written as such in much earlier versions of the bible.

However, the bible refers to most prophets as 'son of god'.
For Example:
Prophet Adam is Son of God: Luke 3:38 NIV • The son of Kenan, the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.
Prophet Israel (Jacob) is Son of God: Exodus 4:22 NIV • Then say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son,
Prophet Ephraim(son of Joseph) is Son of God: Jeremiah 31:9 NIV • I am Israel's father, and Ephraim is my firstborn son.

Therefore, the bible makes it clear that God's 'son' or even 'begotten' son (very bad modern english term added to the bible) does not mean he was born from god. The whole bible actually refers to one god, and that Jesus is sent from god.

Even priests and nuns don't get married or 'beget' children... does that mean they are much more 'Holy' than god?
 
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Seeking Truth,
Your examples are of people born in normal natural birth situations; ie., a human mother and father. They were sons of God as we are to be sons of God.

Jesus was born miraculously of the virgin Mary after
God impregnated her(Lk.1:30-31). This is the only account in history of a virgin birth. This is what makes Jesus the only begotten son of God(1Jn.4:9).

Keep Seeking
 
So why does the bible say that the Father of Jesus is:
Matthew 1:16 - and Jacob begat Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was begotten Jesus, who is named Christ.

Therefore, Jesus is no more than a messenger from God ( chosen by God).
If the reason Jesus is 'begotten' is because he is born without father (not Joseph as the Bible says above)... then Adam who is born with no father or mother is more deserving to be 'begotten' from god right?

The word 'begotten' associated to god has been removed from all Gospels by the same bible scholars as fabrication after they realized that this word does not exist in the most ancient manuscript. That is why it is no longer in the New Revised Versions of the bible...
 
In the Ancient Gospel Of Barnabas:

" Then Jesus, having lifted his hand in token of silence, said: ' Verily ye have erred greatly, O Israelites, in calling me, a man, your God.
And I fear that God may for this give heavy plague upon the holy city.....I confess before heaven, ....that I an stranger to all that ye have said;
seeing that I am man, born of a mortal woman, subject to the judgment of God, suffering the miseries of eating and sleeping, of cold and heat,
like other men,..Whereupon when God shall come to judge, my words like a sword shall pierce each one (of them) that believe
me to be more than a ma
n
"
Gospel of Barnabas: 93


Another verse in the NIV Bible is this one:
(Mathew 7 NIV)
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?
23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'


Who will be those people? These are the people who make Jesus the Messenger = to God! Therefore Jesus said they are evildoers!
Here Jesus said the father in heaven NOT jesus on earth... and he did not say worship ME...

Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him: The first commandment of all is, Hear, O Israel: the Lord thy God is one God.
 
Seeking Truth,
Priests and nuns not getting married has nothing to do with the virgin birth of Jesus Christ.
 
Seeking Truth,

Joseph, the husband of Mary, was used by God to bring the Messiah into this world and did not have sexual relations with Mary until Jesus was born(Mt.1:25). This is why it is called a virgin birth.

The word begotten is in the Bible, the word of God. The best manuscripts and translations, from which we derive our Bible, use this word to describe the only begotten son of God.

Keep Seeking
 
There is no book of Barnabas in my Bible. Nor did Jesus recognize this book.

Col 1:12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light.
Col 1:13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

God created the Heavens and the Earth.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created heaven and earth.

Jesus created the Heavens and the Earth.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Yes Jesus became a man, a human man. He had to for a number of reasons. This is why he usually referred to himself as "the son of man".
But he was also the Son of God, and God himself.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

2Ti 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,
2Ti 1:10 but now has been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,

Luk 10:17 The seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name."
Luk 10:18 And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

Jesus said "I AM"
Joh 8:56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."
Joh 8:57 So the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

God said "I AM"
Exo 3:13 Then Moses said to God, "Behold, I am going to the sons of Israel, and I will say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you.' Now they may say to me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?"
Exo 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

God said he was the Alpha and Omega.
Rev 21:5 And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He *said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."
Rev 21:6 Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost.
Rev 21:7 "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.

Jesus said he was the Alpha and Omega.
Rev 22:12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
Rev 22:13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
Rev 22:16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."

Joh 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

Isa 9:6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this.

Isa 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Mat 1:21 "She will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins."
Mat 1:22 Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet:
Mat 1:23 "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US."

Joh 14:6 Jesus *said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
Joh 14:7 "If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him."
Joh 14:8 Philip *said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us."
Joh 14:9 Jesus *said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

Col 2:6 Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
Col 2:7 having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.
Col 2:8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
Col 2:9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

Eph 1:23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Joh 20:25 So the other disciples were saying to him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them, "Unless I see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe."
Joh 20:26 After eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus *came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, "Peace be with you."
Joh 20:27 Then He *said to Thomas, "Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing."
Joh 20:28 Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
Joh 20:29 Jesus *said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."

Phi 2:5 Have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.
Phi 2:6 Although he was in the form of God and equal with God, he did not take advantage of this equality.
Phi 2:7 Instead, he emptied himself by taking on the form of a servant, by becoming like other humans, by having a human appearance.
Phi 2:8 He humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, death on a cross.

Jesus is God, and Jesus is the Son of God.
 
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Seeking Truth,

The gospel of Barnabas is not an accepted book of the 66 books of the christian scriptures.

Yes, "Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one"(Deut. 6:4). This God, the God of Israel, is the proud Father of Jesus Christ, "the only begotten son of God."(Jn.3:18)
 
So why does the bible say that the Father of Jesus is:
Matthew 1:16 - and Jacob begat Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was begotten Jesus, who is named Christ.

This is correct. Jacob was Joseph's father.
Joseph was the husband of Mary.
Jesus was begotten from Mary.
Jesus is the Christ.

I have no problems with that scripture.
It does not say that Joseph was Jesus's biological father.

Luk 1:34 Mary asked the angel, "How can this be? I've never had sexual intercourse."
Luk 1:35 The angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come to you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore, the holy child developing inside you will be called the Son of God

Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit, not of man (Joseph).
 
BAC,
I think you may misunderstand my replies to Seeking Truth. ST does not believe that Jesus is the begotten son of God. I do not understand how your reply fits.
 
Thanks for the replies Smokey Jack and BAC.

But who said that the 'Word' = Jesus?
Is that an interpretation of someone, or is it re-emphasised in the bible as Jesus?

Well I have been reading the Bible and the Quran. And the Bible actually mentions that there is One God and mentions to believe in Moses, Jesus, and Mohamed as prophets/messengers...


Bible talking about another messenger coming after Jesus:

Song of Solomon Description:
His appearance is like Lebanon,
His hair is wavy and black as a raven.
His body is like polished ivory
He is altogether lovely.


From the above description, I went to the original Hebrew Language texts before translations, and here is what I found:
The Hebrew text corresponding to this verse: ( you may not read hebrew, so this is how you would pronounce it)
"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."

In the Hebrew language im is added for respect.
Which is incorrectly translated to: "His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem." in the english bible!


So I found that the Messenger after Jesus is Muhammad, because song of solomon describes an arab looking man.

Jesus Said:
1 John 4:2 • This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,

I asked muslims who follow Muhammad about Jesus, and if they believe in him or not, and they said that they believe
in all prophets and messengers. And that Jesus is written in their Holy Book the Quran as an honored messenger of god!

Moreover, I found that the muslims follow the religion that Jesus came with, and they actually forbid what the Bible
forbids... and pray as the prophets prayed.

Sample Bible verses that are islamic practice from Messenger of God Muhammad:

Muslim Ablution for prayer:
31 and Moses and Aaron and his sons used it to wash their hands and feet.
32 They washed whenever they entered the Tent of Meeting or approached the altar, as the LORD commanded Moses.

Muslim Prostrating to ground and Bowing in Prayer:
20 Then David said to the whole assembly, "Praise the LORD your God." So they all praised the LORD, the God of their fathers; they bowed low and fell prostrate before the LORD and the king.

Banning Alcohol:
18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.
1 Wine is a mocker and beer a brawler; whoever is led astray by them is not wise.

Banning Pigs:
7 And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you.
8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.

And there are many more like wearing a scarf for women, and Pilgrimage...

Psalm 84:5 NIV • Blessed are those whose strength is in you, who have set their hearts on pilgrimage.
Psalm 84:6 NIV • As they pass through the Valley of Baca

(Baca is mentioned in Quran Book for Pilgrimage which is Maka in the arab language)

Is there anyone on earth who does pilgrimage in Baca except the nation of the prophet mohamed?
 
Thanks for the replies Smokey Jack and BAC.

But who said that the 'Word' = Jesus?
Is that an interpretation of someone, or is it re-emphasised in the bible as Jesus?

Well I have been reading the Bible and the Quran. And the Bible actually mentions that there is One God and mentions to believe in Moses, Jesus, and Mohamed as prophets/messengers...


Bible talking about another messenger coming after Jesus:

Song of Solomon Description:
His appearance is like Lebanon,
His hair is wavy and black as a raven.
His body is like polished ivory
He is altogether lovely.


From the above description, I went to the original Hebrew Language texts before translations, and here is what I found:
The Hebrew text corresponding to this verse: ( you may not read hebrew, so this is how you would pronounce it)
"Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem."

In the Hebrew language im is added for respect.
Which is incorrectly translated to: "His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem." in the english bible!


So I found that the Messenger after Jesus is Muhammad, because song of solomon describes an arab looking man.

Jesus Said:
1 John 4:2 • This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,

I asked muslims who follow Muhammad about Jesus, and if they believe in him or not, and they said that they believe
in all prophets and messengers. And that Jesus is written in their Holy Book the Quran as an honored messenger of god!

Moreover, I found that the muslims follow the religion that Jesus came with, and they actually forbid what the Bible
forbids... and pray as the prophets prayed.

Sample Bible verses that are islamic practice from Messenger of God Muhammad:

Muslim Ablution for prayer:
31 and Moses and Aaron and his sons used it to wash their hands and feet.
32 They washed whenever they entered the Tent of Meeting or approached the altar, as the LORD commanded Moses.

Muslim Prostrating to ground and Bowing in Prayer:
20 Then David said to the whole assembly, "Praise the LORD your God." So they all praised the LORD, the God of their fathers; they bowed low and fell prostrate before the LORD and the king.

Banning Alcohol:
18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.
1 Wine is a mocker and beer a brawler; whoever is led astray by them is not wise.

Banning Pigs:
7 And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you.
8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.

And there are many more like wearing a scarf for women, and Pilgrimage...

Psalm 84:5 NIV • Blessed are those whose strength is in you, who have set their hearts on pilgrimage.
Psalm 84:6 NIV • As they pass through the Valley of Baca

(Baca is mentioned in Quran Book for Pilgrimage which is Maka in the arab language)

Is there anyone on earth who does pilgrimage in Baca except the nation of the prophet mohamed?

The bible does not mention to believe in Mohamed it discourages it, he was a false prophet. But keep seeking the truth and Jesus will be revealed to you.:wink:
 
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Hello Seeking, I see in your profile that you are "born again" but your posts seem to indicate something contrary. If you don't mind could you please elaborate what "born again" means to you and what experience and encounter you have had with Jesus the Christ.
 
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Hello Seeking, I see in your profile that you are "born again" but your posts seem to indicate something contrary. If you don't mind could you please elaborate what "born again" means to you and what experience and encounter you have had with Jesus the Christ.

Hello Jiggyfly,

Where does it say 'born again'? lol
I actually never wrote or chose an option... but I stated that I have
accepted Jesus as a Messenger, but not as a god.
 
But doesn't the above biblical evidence, and Torah scripture give you all the eidence that you need?

But your statement that Mohammed is a false prophet is indeed incorrect because 'Mohammed' is mentioned by Name in the Bible Hebrew Language!
The english translation did an awful translation of Mohammed's name...

Mohammed means something that is nice, or lovely.
So the bible said that the prophet coming is:
Song of Solomon 5:16 His mouth is sweetness itself; he is altogether lovely. This is my lover, this my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem.

But lets think about it...
How could it EVER be possible that Mohammed is a false prophet when he glorified and honoured Jesus. ( By the Bible Rule, this means that Prophet mohammed passed the Prophetic test in 1 john 4:2 )

Secondly, as I stated above... Mohammed and his followers are the ONLY people who pray the way Jesus himself prayed... and the way moses prayed and the way the believers prayed as described in the bible...
How many Christian followers bow and prostrate to the ground like Jesus??


Also, muslims are the only people who are doing pilgrimage in Baca... which is mentioned in the Bible!!

Also muslims are the only people that forbid PIG meat... which is also mentioned in the bible....

Also muslims are the only people that forbid alcohol... which is mentioned in the bible...

Also muslim women are the only women that veil themselves which is mentioned in the bible that women should shave their heads if they don't veil themselves!



so either Muslims are more christian than christians themselves, and apply the rules in the bible which christians don't apply to themselves, or Muslims are following a guided prophet from god who is in line with all other prophets before him!


Denying Mohammed as a prophet after Jesus is like the jews denying Jesus after Moses...
The islamic texts reveal that muslims should believe in ALL prophets and not deny anyone of them like the Jews did... So Muslim belief calls on believing in every single prophet including Jesus as a messenger born to virgin Mary.

Do you see how this all fits together?

May I suggest that you go and join talkmohamed if you want to propigate muslim beliefs, here at TalkJesus we worship Jesus:wink:
 
May I suggest that you go and join talkmohamed if you want to propigate muslim beliefs, here at TalkJesus we worship Jesus:wink:

But that is not my point at all.
I'm not 'Pro' anything but the Truth.

You see, if Jesus was god/son of God, I would be the FIRST to Worship him!

But the Bible as stated above, sais something different... and this is why I'm confused as to why people don't follow the Bible Scripture and only follow what their Parents tell them to follow... or what any other person tells them by mouth to follow without scripture proof!
 
But that is not my point at all.
I'm not 'Pro' anything but the Truth.

You see, if Jesus was god/son of God, I would be the FIRST to Worship him!

But the Bible as stated above, sais something different... and this is why I'm confused as to why people don't follow the Bible Scripture and only follow what their Parents tell them to follow... or what any other person tells them by mouth to follow without scripture proof!

I am not going to argue with you Seeking, but you are in error, the quran is false and so is mohamed. The OP is adressing these errors and it is also the opinion of the admin here at TJ. We will not tolerate any propgation of muslim beliefs here you will need to go elsewhere to do so.
 
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