Kentucky Police Seize Ten Children of Homeschooling Off-Grid Family, Arrest Pregnant Mother

[Fragrant Grace]

Quite a thought provoking article......

BRECKENRIDGE COUNTY, Ky. — Kentucky police have seized the ten children of a homeschooling family who lives what they call a “back-to-basics” off-the-grid life because of their simplistic living arrangement and because the children are not enrolled in school.

Joe and Nicole Naugler live in a small 280 square foot cabin on 26 acres of land, where they raise animals and grow much of their own food. Their home is generator-powered, and they homeschool their children as part of the “unschooling” movement where children learn at their own pace.

The family has blogged about their homesteading journey for nine years and run a Facebook page called “My Blessed Little Homestead.”

According to reports, as Mr. Naugler was out with eight of the children on Wednesday, members of the Breckenridge County Sheriff’s Department arrived on the property to investigate due to an anonymous complaint. They allowed Mrs. Naugler to leave with the two children.

However, after Naugler left, she was soon pulled over by police who sought to then take the two children in the car. As Naugler—who is pregnant with the couple’s 11th child—disputed the seizure and resisted it, she was arrested for disorderly conduct.

When police made contact with Mr. Naugler, they ordered him to hand over the remaining children under threat of felony charges. He did so, and the children were separated and placed into homes in four different area counties.

After Mrs. Naugler was released from jail, she posted online the paperwork provided by the Cabinet for Health and Family Services, the Kentucky version of Child Protective Services, which stated that the children had been taken because of the living arrangement and because they are homeschooled.

“Children are not living in appropriate conditions and are not enrolled in school or registered with the school board,” an affidavit reads.

A separate document alleged that the family was living in a “tent” without running water or septic system and that electricity was powered by a generator. It further complained of finding nails and glass on the ground, as well as piles of the family’s garbage on the property.

“I don’t know where my children are, but if you have them tell them we miss and love them dearly,” Mrs. Naugler wrote on Facebook on Friday. “My heart is broken. I have been trying to keep busy with the legal stuff to keep my mind busy. It’s going to be the longest weekend of my life.”

She said that she has contacted the Homeschool Legal Defense Association for assistance. A hearing is set for Monday.

“I know there are some of you who don’t approve of what we do, but that’s ok. You are welcome to your views,” Mrs. Naugler wrote. “For nine years I have journaled my family’s life online. I have a purpose. I want to help

Kentucky Police Seize Ten Children of Homeschooling Off-Grid Family, Arrest Pregnant Mother | Christian News Network

 

[Chad]

Wow this is thought provoking! I mean, they're having their 11th child and still access online, 26 acres of land and they grow their own food, raise animals. They have more than a handful and still do it passionately. I think they're inspirational to say the least.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Wow this is thought provoking! I mean, they're having their 11th child and still access online, 26 acres of land and they grow their own food, raise animals. They have more than a handful and still do it passionately. I think they're inspirational to say the least.

Yes I thought so too brother @Chad
I'd thought what wonderful wholesome living.

It would appear that there is another side to the 'story', brother Travis kindly sent me these links (thank you @Travis)

A Brief Word of Caution Regarding Joe and Nicole Naugler, The “Off-Grid” Homeschooling Family | Homeschoolers Anonymous
The Life and Opinions of Kathryn Elizabeth, Person • Here Are 7 Surprising Things You Need to Know...

 

[Sunflower_Psalm]

There is a reason they didn't arrest her on the home property. Possibly because the land deed wasn't registered and the family was safe in their 4th amendment rights. That's why these cops let her depart the property and then arrested her on state land, the highway.

It's coming to this. I'll be surprised if Obama leaves office when it comes time but instead declares martial law so as to sit indefinitely.
I think that's why we're hearing about terrorists being allowed to enter America under the watch of federal authorities who "follow" them instead of make arrests. I think that's why there's a Muslim terrorist training camp in Tennessee that's guarded by the SS. And the terrorists that were shot down in Texas activated so as to check response time by civilians, where the laws allow concealed weapons without a permit, as well as members of the Executive branch, i.e. police.
We're going to become a police state. We're one now in many ways, just not officially decreed. This latest gives a hint I think of things to come.

 

[Travis]

Thanks for posting those two articles

I think the Nauglers may have been more in the wrong than many articles would lead us to believe.

I think that's why there's a Muslim terrorist training camp in Tennessee that's guarded by the SS.

Can you put legs on that table? Meaning, do you have proof to back that statement up?

Blessings,

Travis

 

[Makahiya2028]

Yes, you're exactly right !

It's perfectly obvious we are at the close of the dispensation of grace (church age), first revealed unto the apostle to Gentiles.

The book of James was written to the twelve tribes of Israel, before the revelation was given to Paul .

Back on point . . . it's time to buy some survival stuff .

Thank you for you're post .

.

 

[Sunflower_Psalm]

I can't post links as yet being a newbie. However, any search engine where you look for the keywords: Muslim terrorist training camp Dover Tennessee
will bring you a number of article hits.

Thanks for posting those two articles

I think the Nauglers may have been more in the wrong than many articles would lead us to believe.



Can you put legs on that table? Meaning, do you have proof to back that statement up?

Blessings,

Travis

 

[Christ4Ever]

I looked at the pictures and have no problem with what I have seen. I guess we'd have to arrest just about 3/4 of Africa if it came to that. Ask missionaries the different types of abodes that they've come across. It's about resources and I'm pretty sure trying not to depend on the government for sustenance.

We have tendency to look at things relative to how we live, or think that others should live. If you were to look at the Appalachian Mountains, the pictures you are looking at from this family (which they took themselves and shared by the way) would be considered upper middle class. Perfect? Having family problems? Still looking for that perceived perfect family that doesn't have problems. Even with Jesus Christ in our lives, we all have issues to deal with. Want the government to come into your house and tell you to stop praising Jesus Christ cause it's considered to be religious and exclusionary? Check out China and what's happening to House Churches.

By the way I won't change having Jesus in my families life for all the palaces, penthouses, condos in the world. Don't we have mansions being built for us? :thumbsup:

What resources do they have? They have property, but do they have economic resources to provide more substantial living accommodations which in some third world countries, yes even in our own country, south of the board, north of the board, would be considered livable and even high end? In Egypt the common burning material for heating in the lower class is dung. So it's all relative to what you know, what you've seen, and what you in Christ Jesus want for your family. Not what somebody else or godless governments wants for them.

I know they cross reference other incidents where this type of living has created abuses, but they have failed to prove it here or they would have gone in with a warrant and not waited until they left. There are enough horror stories of abuse in every venue. Rich, middle class, poor, city, country, you name it. If they don't like what you're doing and want to get you. They (government) will.

Don't think about what horrors could be happening, but what is happening. Facebook page for 9 years! And not until now? Asking his son to hand him his gun. Is that what is considered threatening? The other person could have been getting angry, maybe a bear was coming up behind the person, we don't know why and just stating in parenthesis (told his son to hand him his gun) doesn't mean diddly. Notice, not being arrested for having a gun, or possessing one illegally.

Education? In this part I'd really like to know what the family has been teaching them. If the Bible is the source. Think they need a good secular school instead?

Rather then looking down or up to this family. Pray for them. One thing any with family know. You don't want them taken away from you. So pray that they know the Lord first and foremost. Second, that they are covered. Third that this family might be reunited and that there is no cause for what has happened, except by an over reaction by some government agencies.

In Jesus name I pray for this family heavenly Father! If they don't know you, that they do and will come to trust in your loving care what ever road you have set for them to travel. Knowing that through your Son that the guidance and love is never failing. We love you Father God and ask you this once again, in the name of your Son Christ Jesus. Amen.
C4E
<><

 

[Travis]

Hi y'all,

I would like to comment in more depth. This is a touchy subject. How can our hearts not go out to a mother who just had her children taken away from her, most likely over some petty issue. Should that have happened? No, I think we all agree that it shouldn't. Could it have been avoided? Yes, I think it could have. The most divisive of topics are often the ones which pull at our heart strings. I really don't want to make it any more divisive than needs be though. Perhaps there is a misunderstanding on all our parts and we can better understand ourselves and each other and instead rejoice in the Lord.

I don't know the Nauglers. At all. I don't know if they are believers or not. I don't know their history, their hurts, their hardships, their struggles, or anything else beyond what little I have seen in a couple of different articles I have read in the last week. It doesn't bother me that they want to live simply, nor many other things. I'm OK with them choosing to be different than me. I respect many of their choices, some are quite commendable. Now, I really haven't looked into this issue extensively until just a little bit more right before writing this response. But, with all that being said, one more quick thing before I get to what I want to say. There are at least few different ways of listening to information: Objective (also critical), Appreciative (for enjoyment), relational (empathetic), and discriminative (looking beyond just the words). The original article is designed to cause us to look at the situation empathetically. Its hard to look at something empathetically and objectively at the same time. My heart goes out the the Nauglers, but I'm going to step back from that for a bit and be a little critical, trying to be as objective as I can. Just wanted to explain where I'm coming from before I move on.

The constitution is a pretty awesome document. If you include the bill of rights along with that, we have some pretty awesome literature as a backbone for this country (Well, we did at one time at least). The constitution is not on par with the bible. They aren't like brother and sister or something. The bible doesn't give us the following inalienable rights: Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The first one perhaps, depending on how you define it. Liberty, not so much, not in the fullest sense of the words by any means. If you come to Christ as a disciple you give up your liberty in this world and become a slave of Christ. Yet, in Christ we have all the liberty there is, of course, it's just not for exercising in this current world, it belongs to the world to come. Most definitely not the pursuit of happiness. If you are pursuing happiness, you will never find it. God is not happiness, he is Love. I could not help but think of these verses while examining the Naugler situation.

"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you. 43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. - Matthew 5:38-45​

I'm not saying, and I don't think these scriptures are saying, that we should be doormats. But I think there is wisdom here on how to deal with evil people and evil entities. And it's not the wisdom of this world.

I listened to the audio file from an officer discussing the issue at hand with Mrs. Naugler. Whether she is technically in the right or the wrong, how she handled the situation was not wise. If you do what she and her husband did, right now (at this current time period) in this country, it may cause you a lot of grief and unnecessary trouble (like what is happening to them). 10 years from now, when we are in much darker days, it may just cost you your life, and your children's lives. We can all learn from this situation on how to better handle oneself when dealing with a corrupt and unjust system of government, and avoid something similar happening to us.

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. James 1:5​

Here's that audio (there was some mild cussing at one point, just a warning):

RAW AUDIO: Nicole’s Incident with Police | Save Our Family

The way Mrs. Naugler handles the situation is not in accordance with the scriptures. We are not called to act that way. I'm not mad at her for acting that way, and I'm not trying to be mean to her, but I think it needs to be said that this is not a Christian way of acting. I cannot commend her for it at all though, not from a Christian perspective. The Officer (I think he may have been more than that, perhaps a captain or something) was very very calm, diplomatic, and reasonable about the whole thing. It is somewhat true that much of whole thing was really none of the local governments business at all. But, good luck convincing them of that. If it's worth digging your heels in and fighting to the death over that, I guess that's your choice to make. He (The police man) seemed to really try to find some middle ground and make the situation work. He even commented that he thought it was pretty cool that they live off the land. He gave Mrs. Naugler many simple requests, and she didn't budge an inch almost at all. It's hard to work with someone who will not work with you. When complaints are filed to the police, they have an obligation to pursue the matter in a reasonable fashion. To completely obstruct that is to set yourself up for trouble. There are wiser ways of going about the issue. If you continually beat your head against a brick wall, one of the two things is going to break. It's probably not going to be the wall. I just think that the situation could have been handled much much wiser. I don't see this as outright and unprovoked persecution. I don't think either party was necessarily in the right.

Whether a police officer is technically correct or not at the moment, if he has his hand on his gun, or you can tell he (or she) means business, it is in your best interest to comply. If they are indeed in the wrong, you will almost always be justified later in time, and that officer may very well be reprimanded, depending on the severity of the wrongdoing. There are channels and avenues to pursue to seek justice for such if you want it. Taking the law into your own hands and enforcing what you think is just onto an officer won't end well. If you resist an officer who has decided its time to take action, you may find yourself in a very bad situation, perhaps even with a bullet or two in you. Not being able to keep your temper in such a situation is a recipe for disaster.

I don't think 1st Century Christians appealed to their constitutional rights when they were being drug out of their homes to be crucified upside down, covered in oil, and set on fire to light the streets during the night. And not for threatening their neighbors, but just for loving God and worshiping his Son, Jesus Christ. Our brothers and sisters who lived in Russia during the heights of communism did not appeal to some human authority or rule of law when being persecuted did they? They knew what they were up against and most walked wisely in the midst of tribulation. I'm glad we have constitutional rights, but our governments have always been run by evil men, some worse than others. No matter how great one's law is, if those who are responsible for enforcing/interpreting it are fallen, you're going to have trouble. If one is trusting in their constitutional rights to save them, they will eventually fail to do so. It's better to trust in the Lord.

12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. - Ephesians 6:12​

I am more than happy to hear any objections to what I have said though. Or if I am missing something altogether please let me know. This issue is not one I really want to divide over, but I think it is important to discuss, and will probably be something we see more of in the future. Apparently many people do not agree with me on this one, seeing as how the Naugler's GoFundMe page has received over $45,000 in donations over the last 7 days.

This world is not our home, and I rejoice in that. Some day we will be forever with the King of Kings and Lord of Lords and there will no longer be any injustice of any sorts. I think we can all look forward together to that day!

Blessings,

Travis

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Travis

Critiquing in hindsight we can both agree that the situation could have been handled differently. Especially as a ChristianS.

However, the statement you made about the 1st Century Christians and the Russian persecutions, which of cause you can add many more countries all over the world today. Made the point in behavior (though I sure not all responded as we believe), but missed the point in what this mother was saying. A more accurate example would be Paul utilizing the law of Rome to appeal to Caesar (Only Roman Citizens had this legal right to do). [Act 25:11 KJV] 11 For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die: but if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them. I appeal unto Caesar.

Ill advised in hindsight? Probably. Yet, I would give her some leeway considering she's pregnant or are all women reasonable when they're pregnant even if it's their 11th! (Now sisters, not critiquing, just making an observation. Because I'm sure everyone of you as Sisters in Christ Jesus, were and are the most reasonable of women when with child.)

So Brother Travis, let's just pray for this family that if they don't know Jesus as Lord and Savior, that through whatever trials may be down the road they will be traveling at this time. Will at the end through Christ Jesus, be Salvation for each and every one of them!

Love you Brother Travis!

YBIC

C4E

<><

 

[Makahiya2028]

Quite a thought provoking article......

BRECKENRIDGE COUNTY, Ky. — Kentucky police have seized the ten children of a homeschooling family who lives what they call a “back-to-basics” off-the-grid life because of their simplistic living arrangement and because the children are not enrolled in school.

Joe and Nicole Naugler live in a small 280 square foot cabin on 26 acres of land, where they raise animals and grow much of their own food. Their home is generator-powered, and they homeschool their children as part of the “unschooling” movement where children learn at their own pace.

The family has blogged about their homesteading journey for nine years and run a Facebook page called “My Blessed Little Homestead.”

According to reports, as Mr. Naugler was out with eight of the children on Wednesday, members of the Breckenridge County Sheriff’s Department arrived on the property to investigate due to an anonymous complaint. They allowed Mrs. Naugler to leave with the two children.

However, after Naugler left, she was soon pulled over by police who sought to then take the two children in the car. As Naugler—who is pregnant with the couple’s 11th child—disputed the seizure and resisted it, she was arrested for disorderly conduct.

When police made contact with Mr. Naugler, they ordered him to hand over the remaining children under threat of felony charges. He did so, and the children were separated and placed into homes in four different area counties.

After Mrs. Naugler was released from jail, she posted online the paperwork provided by the Cabinet for Health and Family Services, the Kentucky version of Child Protective Services, which stated that the children had been taken because of the living arrangement and because they are homeschooled.

“Children are not living in appropriate conditions and are not enrolled in school or registered with the school board,” an affidavit reads.

A separate document alleged that the family was living in a “tent” without running water or septic system and that electricity was powered by a generator. It further complained of finding nails and glass on the ground, as well as piles of the family’s garbage on the property.

“I don’t know where my children are, but if you have them tell them we miss and love them dearly,” Mrs. Naugler wrote on Facebook on Friday. “My heart is broken. I have been trying to keep busy with the legal stuff to keep my mind busy. It’s going to be the longest weekend of my life.”

She said that she has contacted the Homeschool Legal Defense Association for assistance. A hearing is set for Monday.

“I know there are some of you who don’t approve of what we do, but that’s ok. You are welcome to your views,” Mrs. Naugler wrote. “For nine years I have journaled my family’s life online. I have a purpose. I want to help

Kentucky Police Seize Ten Children of Homeschooling Off-Grid Family, Arrest Pregnant Mother | Christian News Network

The Homeschool Legal Defense Association are KJV Baptists .
One of my doctoral advisors was Dr. George Overby, Ph.D.,
he was our leading scholar in the development of higher education
and the administration of Christian Education .

You are exactly right !
I am a VFW and an Ed.D. in higher education.
I don't think there is any doubt in anyone's mind what time it is .


.

 

[Travis]

The Homeschool Legal Defense Association are KJV Baptists .
One of my doctoral advisors was Dr. George Overby, Ph.D.,
he was our leading scholar in the development of higher education
and the administration of Christian Education .

You are exactly right !
I am a VFW and an Ed.D. in higher education.
I don't think there is any doubt in anyone's mind what time it is .


.

Just in case anyone is wondering, the Home School Legal Defense Association is not in any way representing the Naugler family.

State keeps control of Kentucky homeschool kids

Blessings!

Travis

 

[Travis]

However, the statement you made about the 1st Century Christians and the Russian persecutions, which of cause you can add many more countries all over the world today. Made the point in behavior (though I sure not all responded as we believe), but missed the point in what this mother was saying. A more accurate example would be Paul utilizing the law of Rome to appeal to Caesar (Only Roman Citizens had this legal right to do). [Act 25:11 KJV] 11 For if I be an offender, or have committed any thing worthy of death, I refuse not to die: but if there be none of these things whereof these accuse me, no man may deliver me unto them. I appeal unto Caesar.

Hi Nick,

You are correct, Paul did indeed appeal to Caesar. It was a bold and wise move intended to spread the Good News of Jesus Christ. Let us hope that the Nauglar family has the same intent or goal and that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is preached through all this, and not just someone/someones suffering for their own doings.

Blessings!

Travis