Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!
  • Welcome to Talk Jesus Christian Forums

    Celebrating 20 Years!

    A bible based, Jesus Christ centered community.

    Register Log In

Matthew and Luke's Nativity, Two Different Takes On the Same Story. Which Do You Prefer?

Andyindauk

Active
Joined
Oct 22, 2019
Messages
710
Over the last few weeks I've been trying to merge the accounts of the nativity from Matthew and Luke to give some perspective on the foundation of God's plan of salvation with some additional commentary, questions for you and background. I know it's long but please persevere, hopefully, like an old masters painting, you’ll see both background and intricate detail.

Can I wish you all, not a happy Christmas but and an amazing, joyful, wonderful and sensational Christmas stuffed, not full of turkey, rather full of God's blessings and personal revelation of Himself to you?


There are 5 main prophecies foretelling Jesus's birth -
Isaiah 7:14
Isaiah 9:6
Micah 5:2
Hosea 11:1
Jeremiah 31: 15

So some 700 years bc we can say with some certainty that God and Jesus had cooked up a plan to deal with sin and that it involved a baby. Maybe there's earlier prophecies, can you recall some of the early prophecies? Genesis 22:17-18.
So God had a plan within minutes of that first sin. It's hinted at in Genesis 3:15. The seed of the woman is Jesus; and He will stamp on the serpent's head.

God pretty much left man to his own devices for the next 2,000 years, only intervening in Genesis chapter 7, the great flood that wiped out humanity bar one family. Then another man came along who got on well with God, so well, that God promises to make Abraham's descendants a nation: in fact, make that 3 nations, Israel, Christendom and Muslims, all of these cite Abraham as their ancestor.

Over the next 400 years, Israel is incubated within Egypt who later turn upon them and make Israel slaves. God raises up Moses to lead a rebellion that breaks out of Egypt and off they go towards Canaan, overrun it and the state of Israel begins. On their journey, God sets out His laws that He wants them to follow, along with rituals to perform that would patch up any misdemeanours.

God loved Israel, however Israel's relationship with God was at best, patchy. They had a tendency to drop God to explore other mythical gods and in so doing committed sins heinous in the sight of God. God, who admits He's a jealous God, caused enemies to overrun the country and Him coming to their rescue, raising up heroic leaders to free them. Later, the elders of Israel demanded a king so they could be like all the other nations around them. With a few exceptions, most notably King David, that didn't go well either, with the majority leading Israel away from God and towards worshipping those strange mythical gods they'd imported from neighbouring countries. Again, God strengthened their enemies to invade but this final time the enemies captured and relocated the citizens of Israel. After 70 years, their captors released them back to rebuild and soon after, God seemed to really fall out with Israel, not even speaking to them for nearly 500 years.

Had God washed his hands of Israel? No, He was going to have one final massive push to bring Israel back into line; He was going to send His only son, Jesus to bring Israel back. God knew that this plan would fail, right at the beginning of John's gospel he wrote:

He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. John 1:10‭-‬11. But it didn't completely fail, there were quite a few who did believe and accepted and turned to Jesus:

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:12‭-‬13 NKJV.

The nativity story starts off in Luke chapter 1 with a visit from one of God's top angels. In the Old Testament on a handful of occasions, God sent an angel to speak with a Bible hero to outline His plans for him or her. How many angelic visits can you recall in the Old Testament? (Abraham and Sarah, Hagar, Manoah's wife) Sometimes, God would speak directly with the hero, Abraham, Moses, Elijah, but most often, He sent a prophet to give the message to the hero.

Luke's account of the holy conception is told very much from Mary's perspective. Let's look at this message Luke 1: 26-38. The Angel tells Mary she's going to become a mum. Luke on the face of it, seems to have got the timing wrong. Luke writes, 'and behold, you will conceive' (future tense) and 'the Holy Spirit will come upon you,' whereas Mary's reaction indicates that she interprets the message to be either present or past tense: 'How can this be since I am a virgin?'

Let's compare Mary's response to the angel's instruction with Sarah's response to a similar instruction -

And He said, “I will certainly return to you according to the time of life, and behold, Sarah your wife shall have a son.” (Sarah was listening in the tent door which was behind him.) Now Abraham and Sarah were old, well advanced in age; and Sarah had passed the age of childbearing. Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, “After I have grown old, shall I have pleasure, my Lord being old also?” Genesis 18:10‭-‬12 NKJV

Can you spot the difference?

Look more into the angel's 4 predictions of the baby Jesus's attributes.
1.) He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High.
2.) The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,
3.) and He will reign over Jacob’s descendants forever;
4.) His kingdom will never end.” Luke 1:32‭-‬33 NIV.

These were amazing promises. How high has that bar been set? The list of achievements that this baby who wasn't even born at this point had to meet.

In fact, the bar was even higher than the angel's message. Let's look at Isaiah 42:1-7. Spot the difference between the angel's predictions and Jesus's purpose as set out by God via Isaiah? Verse 6, a light to the Gentiles, not just Jacob's descendants. Look at Isaiah 49:6, God was not satisfied with just saving the Jews; that was not enough, God was desperate to extend Jesus's salvation to the whole world.

Back to attribute No. 1, Jesus will be called Son of the Most High. John 1:14, John 3:16, John 5:18. Attribute No. 2, Matthew 25:31, Hebrews 12:2, Revelation 3:21. Attribute No. 3, Zechariah 14:9, 2 Peter 1:11, 1 Corinthians 15:24. Attribute No. 4, Daniel 2:44-45, Isaiah 9:6-7. God's plan was meticulous and was being carried out in detail.

I love dramas when you see an event or situation from firstly the man's viewpoint and then the woman's, you get both sides of the story, and that's exactly what we get in Matthew 1:18-25 and Luke 1:26-38.

We assume that Mary shared this news of her pregnancy and her heavenly visit with her fiancée, Joseph but we read in Matthew's account that Joseph was not convinced. Can you imagine, he probably thought to himself, well it's different from the usual excuse, 'I was drunk, I was out of it; it meant nothing.' Poor Josef was convinced that his beloved fiancée had cheated on him. Let's look at Matthew 1:18-25. Despite what he thought was a momentary lapse, Joseph thought, no the marriage is off, if he can't trust her, he can't marry her but at the same what he didn't want to do was to get revenge for what he thought was Mary's betrayal by putting the split and the reasons for the split into the rumour mill so he decided he wanted to part company quietly and just be friends.

That night, Joseph has a dream and in it, an angel appeared to him, addressing him, Joseph, son of David, which was a bit weird because his dad was called Jacob. No, actually, the angel was letting Joseph know that he was a direct descendant of King David himself. Joseph was convinced the dream was from God and not the result of eating cheese before going to bed. The next morning, Mary received a grovelling apology, and the wedding is back on; they get married.

Back to Luke 1. Mary packs a bag and goes off to see cousin Elizabeth who lived in the hill country of Judea. In the hill country of Judea there are 5 towns but we're not told which one but the distances involved would be 80 - 100 miles, depending upon which one, that's 4 - 5 days walk. As soon as they meet, John does a somersault in Elizabeth's belly and Mary, probably prompted by the Holy Spirit, recites what we know as The Magnificat. In this we can spot a prophesy and a concept quite contrary to then contemporary perceived wisdom. Can you spot them? Luke 1:46-55. The Magnificat was spoken by Mary but clearly inspired by the Holy Spirit within her.

3 months later and Mary sets off back home.

A few months after, Caesar passes a decree that there's going to be a census throughout the whole of the Roman Empire. To facilitate that, everyone was ordered to return to their town of birth in order to register. It seems that both Joseph and Mary hailed from Bethlehem and so off they went. Mary rode on a donkey according to the popular Christmas carol but there's no mention of the mode of transport in the Bible, so it's probably more accurate to assume that they walked the 100 mile journey which according to Google maps takes 31 hours; longer if you're 8-9 months pregnant.

Due to Mary's condition, they're one of the last to arrive, by which time all the hotels, inns and B&B's are fully booked. According to Luke 2:7, Joseph searched but was unable to find a room but he did manage to find a stable attached to an inn. There, Mary gave birth to her son.

Naturally, God wanted to share the great news and celebrate the birth of His son and so He sent an invite to some local shepherds via an angel Luke 2:8-20. This invite was not a low-key affair; the angel shone brighter than a halogen street lamp, delivered his message and was joined by hundreds of other angels that were singing praises to God. What an amazing display that must have been! This was the biggest angelic display ever recorded. Bigger than Jacob's ladder in Genesis 28:10-17. How so? In what way was it bigger? Can you spot the vital difference?

And all that just for some ordinary, bog standard shepherds. That tells us something of how God's value of people is so different to ours.

The shepherds visited the family in the stable and found the baby in a manger, wrapped in swaddling cloths. It's significant that Jesus's earthly ministry finished as it started. Luke 23:53. There's no mention of the shepherds worshiping the baby but I think it's safe to assume that they did. Luke does tell us that the shepherds told lots of people in Bethlehem about their heavenly encounter with angels and praised God all the way home.

Probably earlier than the shepherds, because they had a lot further to travel, God invited three kings according to the popular Christmas carol or wise men, according to Matthew 2: 1-12. These were astronomers come astrologers, there was a lot of crossover in those days. The Bible says they came from the East. They must have been close neighbours because this was before social media or telephones but they decided to collaborate and follow when they saw a star. It was a brand new, previously undiscovered star, and for some reason, they had associated this new star with the birth of the King of the Jews. We don't know upon what basis they made that conclusion but there was no doubt in their minds that this star heralded the birth of a baby who was King of the Jews.

Something else we're told is that these wise men were aware that -

1. This was a king and not a prince. A Prince is a king in waiting but this baby was actually born a king, which is a bit of an oxymoron, He didn't have to wait for a parent to die to succeed as the new King. He was born a king.

2. There was a Heavenly connection with this baby that prompted them to up sticks, find Him and worship Him. They were clearly aware that this King of the Jews wasn't like ancient kings like David and Hezekiah, no this king needed a visit for the purpose of worshiping Him.

In this passage, there's more questions than answers. Can you find any unanswered questions?

Where were they from?
Were they Jewish believers?
How did they make the connection between the star and the King?

Anyway they followed this star that moved independently of the rotation of the earth but at some stage they decided that it was leading them astray in that it was not taking them towards the capital city, Jerusalem which is the obvious place where you would expect to find a king so they ditched the star and followed their instincts; maybe not so wise after all.

They turn up in Jerusalem, make their way to the palace, bang on the front door and were ushered in for an audience with King Herod. That tells us these guys were people of importance and stature. Maybe they were kings but probably high up in their government to be able to do that.

What they told Herod was deeply troubling or worrying to him, but not only Herod but all of Israel. It's easy to see why Herod was stressed. These bigwigs from abroad had turned up out of the blue to worship a new king that wasn't him. He was flapping. Who and where was this usurper? Why was all of Israel worried? Maybe they'd become accustomed and too comfortable in Roman occupied Israel. Herod had just refurbished and extended the Temple quite apart from roads, a legal system, security and prosperity. Do we sometimes get too comfortable in a world occupied by sin and so resist change?

Well, Herod summonses Pharisees and Scribes who seem more than willing to fill him in as to the likely whereabouts of this new King. Strange really, when you think that the Romans had been the occupying force for the previous 200 years. Why do you think that the Scribes and Pharisees were so helpful to Herod in finding this Messiah who they've waited thousands of years for? The Romans had bought stability, roads, trade and money; maybe sometimes we get too comfortable in a world of sin. Then Herod dispatches the wise men with a request to find and report back the location of the new King and they troop off to Bethlehem. Fortunately, he didn't order that the wise men be followed. God planned this in meticulous detail thousands of years earlier, Numbers 24:17, that's a prophecy from an enemy of God. There was never going to be any spanner in the works.

The wise men arrive. Notice, not at a stable but at a house. Somebody must have taken pity on the mother and baby and somehow found them a room in a house until all the formalities of the Roman census had been completed. But that in no way detracts from what a weird and strange place to give birth to your first born, first born that was promised so much.

What's the first thing the wise men do? They saw Jesus and Mary, and immediately, these important, rich, highly intelligent men fall to the floor and worship this little baby. This was a little baby a few days old that could only feed, cry and sleep and these guys were on their knees, worshiping it, like He was a God. These probably weren't Jewish, had no schooling in Jewish theology and culture, but they knew exactly who this baby was and how He was going to change the whole trajectory of humankind. To worship and praise him: anything else would have been so inappropriate. Imagine they'd come in, congratulated the parents and cood over the baby? Errr... no!

Then it's gifts time. Out come 3 gifts, which is probably why we assume there were 3 wise men for which there is some logic and three is a special number for God, it represents the Holy Trinity. Look at these gifts; what do they represent?

Gold is treasure. Jesus was to emphasise building up treasure in Heaven Matthew 6:19-21 and 13:44-46. Revelation 3:18.
Frankincense is an incense used in the Old Testament worship in the Temple. It was used widely in most of the ceremonies Exodus 30:34, Leviticus 2:1 and 24:7, but specifically not sin offerings, Leviticus 5:1.
Myrrh was originally used as holy anointing oil Exodus 30:23. If you want to anoint a king, you'll need myrrh. Later, it was used as an embalming ointment. John 19:39. Who would give embalming as a late baby shower gift? Well, this gift is prophetic; this baby was to die and afterwards, He would be anointed King. Hebrews 1:8-9.

On another level, these gifts would have funded the family's needs for the next 30 years, including the flight to Egypt. Much more practical than a cot, a pram or baby grows.

8 days after His birth, the baby needs to be circumcised. For 41 days following Jesus's birth, Mary was ritually unclean. Leviticus 12:1-8. It must have been sometime during this period that the wise men arrived. Once that period was completed, the family went to the Temple to offer a sacrifice to God. Look at their chosen sacrifice, two turtle doves.

Look up - If she cannot afford a lamb then she shall take two turtledoves or young pigeons, one as a burnt offering, the other as a sin offering; the priest shall make atonement for her, and she will be clean.’ ” Leviticus 12:8 AMP.

Using the gold given by the wise men, they could surely have afforded a lamb but instead the family chose to align themselves with the poor and offered two turtle doves instead.

In the Temple, they bump into two people who recognise the baby. The first is Simeon. He was an old man and described as, 'devout, with the Holy Spirit upon him'. What was keeping him alive was the Spirit's promise that he'd see Jesus before he died and as good as His word, here was the baby Jesus. Note how he was transported to the Temple, led by the Spirit. In the same way, Jesus Himself would be led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted Luke 4:1. Then Simeon makes profound declarations; he has seen the Lord's salvation and that that salvation would be extended to the Gentiles. Was Simeon prophesying or simply quoting passages such as Isaiah 60:1-3? Either way, Mary really took on board and was impressed with what Simeon was telling her.

Next to recognise the baby is a prophetess, Anna. We're not told what she said but she then went and told as many people as she could find.

Next stop was Egypt. Matthew 2:13-14. An angel appeared in a dream to Joseph, note Joseph rather than Mary, with instructions to emigrate outside the jurisdiction of Herod who wanted to kill the baby.

Herod realises he's been stood up by the wise men, making him look pretty stupid for trusting them. Outraged and worried about this usurper, he orders the death of all baby boys in Bethlehem so fulfilling Jeremiah's prophecy in Jeremiah 31:15. At the time, Jeremiah thought he was writing about the forced relocation of Israelites to Assyria. Little did he realise he was writing prophecy about the massacre of children in Bethlehem.

A couple of years later, Herod died and so it was safe for the family to return to Israel, Nazareth where the family was originally based.

Jesus grew up in the the city of Nazareth -
And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men. Luke 2:52 NKJV

This was the foundation stone of God's plan of redemption for mankind.
 
No preference, just told from different perspectives, Matthew's focuses on Joseph, Luke's focuses on Mary, and it also reveals the conception and birth of John the Baptist. Because of this, Luke's account provided an invaluable insight on the real timing of Christ's birth: Zacharias as the high priest was of the division of Abijah (Luke 1:5), which was the 8th division (1 Chron. 24:10). When he was on duty, it was at the time of Pentecost, so when he completed his duty and went home, Elizabeth conceived, (Luke 1:23) that was late Sivan; fast forward 9 months, you get Passover; when Yeshua was conceived, it was six months later (Luke 1:36); six months forward from Passover, you get the Feast of Tabernacles. This is a feast of celebration, as "Yeshua as the Word became flesh and dwelt among us", which could also be traslated, "TABERNACLED among us".

Also, I think a more controversial topic is the two geneologies. Romans 1:3-4 stated that Yeshua was born of the seed of David according to the FLESH and the son of God according to the Spirit, therefore at least one geneology must be Mary's as proof of the "fleshly" messianic bloodline that can be traced to David. Traditionally, Matthew's is attributed to Jospeh, Luke's is attributed to Mary due to the perspectives of the dreams, but I believe Matthew's is Mary's geneology, while Luke's is Jospeh's. In nearly all bible translations, Joseph in Matt. 1:16 is the 'husband of Mary", but the Greek word "andra" and the original Aramaic word could be generally referring to a "male guardian" (of a female). In this context, since Mary wasn't officially married to Jospeh yet when Yeshua was conceived, that Jospeh was actually the FATHER of Mary, not husband. That also solves the mystery of the "missing generation". On the other hand, Jospeh in Luke 3:23 was "as supposed" to be the father of Yeshua, that's because Yeshua was born of the Holy Spirit, while Joseph's marriage with Mary wasn't consummated yet, so he wasn't the father, in the eyes of the townsfolk he was only "supposed" as the father.
 
Greetings Andy,

thank you for sharing this and thank you for your kind blessings...

Can I wish you all, not a happy Christmas but and an amazing, joyful, wonderful and sensational Christmas stuffed, not full of turkey, rather full of God's blessings and personal revelation of Himself to you?


I was sharing with youngsters recently about the masterpiece/painting which you mentioned...

like an old masters painting, you’ll see both background and intricate detail.
and how wonderful it really is. This was prompted by reading passages from the New and Old Testament regarding God's love and HIs sending of His Son for the propitiation of mans' sin and similar either prophecies or 'explanations/declarations' which compliment and enhance the usual Christmas stories we might read, namely those in the Gospels, some of which you covered (well).
The folk back then would not have been able to clearly see the 'masterpiece, as it was still being 'painted'. The Apostle Paul and other Apostles/writers opened up and taught from Old Testament with the 'hindsight' of Jesus life and death and resurrection and Promises and the wonders and miracles that were witnessed and manifestested by and through the Holy Ghost. Many were then able to see what was clearly before their eyes all the time through Scripture.
We have today, an even clearer sight of the Masterpiece but I venture to add that even now He is not yet finished the painting. Oh how wonderful it will look after the Resurrection and Judgement, the New Heavens and New Earth!


Blessings to you and yours ....><>
 
Back
Top