Were is the commandment of “agape” and forgive as God has forgiven you? The “agape” of God and worlds “love” is like night and day, You remember I did say, when I interpret scripture, my method is the “historical grammatical “ hermeneutics. In sense: Meaning the text has one meaning, that God is trying to convey. But we know from Christianity there are many applications.
Side note: sometimes, never dig where they what you to dig, because, sometimes the scripture is true: “they who leads you, leads you astray “
There are two Greek words for “fornication” if you have old copy of “Vines dictionary of Greek New Testament Words” it can be a catalyst.
What is the meaning of the Greek porneia in this passage (Matthew 19)? The Church of God for 40 years has said it relates to an illicit sex act committed PRIOR to being bound in marriage, undisclosed to the husband until AFTER the marriage ceremony.”
“The word porneia in Matthew 5 and Matthew 19 does not, and cannot mean in this context, adultery …porneia can, and more often does mean fornication by an UNmarried person — prior to marriage. THIS IS THE ONLY MEANING THAT FITS THE CONTEXT IN MATTHEW 5 AND 19, CONSISTENT WITH GOD’S LAW AND ALL THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, AND CONSISTENT WITH GOD’S PURPOSE!”
“Matthew alone mentions ‘except it be for porneia’ because only he has explained the incident of Joseph thinking to put away Mary his betrothed. When Jesus said these words, recorded in Matthew 5 and 19, He was very conscious of the fact that this very ‘exception clause’ INVOLVED HIS OWN CONCEPTION AND BIRTH.”
And we must also remember:
“What God has join together let NO man put asunder”.
“If you do divorce REMAIN unmarried or be reconciled unto your own husband or wife”.
in order to answer you clearly with my sleep deprived brain at 2 am, I’m going to break down your reply and give my response to it. Please forgive me I’m advance if I change a few words here or there to help me better understand what you were trying to convey:
“Were is the commandment of “agape” and forgive as God has forgiven you? The “agape” of God and worlds “love” is like night and day”
You’re not obligated to continue to stay with someone that had broken a spiritual and emotional bond with you. The best example of this would be the case of Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve betrayed Gods orders to not eat the forbidden fruit, but they did anyway. And for that, God cast them out of the garden. That doesn’t mean that he didn’t love them, but he could no longer stay with them because they had broken the connection that they had with God and introduced sin into their lives.
long story short, you could love and forgive all you want, and that’s fine, but you’re not obligated to stay with the person and maintain the already broken relationship.
“You remember I did say, when I interpret scripture, my method is the “historical grammatical “ hermeneutics. In sense: Meaning the text has one meaning, that God is trying to convey. But we know from Christianity there are many applications.”
I believe I did practice the “historical grammatical hermeneutics” when I showed you the original definition of the Greek word pornea, which, in the Bible times, covered three meanings: (1) prostitution, (2)adultery, and (3) incest. This isn’t a later interpretation of the word Pornea. This is how the Jews would’ve interpreted the word when reading the texts.
And when you say applications, do you mean
interpretations? If so then I could agree with you, but that’s why you and I both like to do our research and try to figure out the intended message at it’s core.
Side note: sometimes, never dig where they [want] you to dig, because, sometimes the scripture is true: “they who lead[] you, lead[] you astray “
I really have no idea what you’re trying to say here. Are you saying that these people are false prophets like in Isaiah 9:18? In that case, who are the false prophets? Are they the people that you don’t agree with? I would really like to know.
“There are two Greek words for “fornication” if you have old copy of “Vines dictionary of Greek New Testament Words” it can be a [start].”
I took the liberty of doing a quick search as to the two Greek words, which, come to find out, are Pornea and Moicheia. I’ve already defined Pornea twice in this forum, so I don’t have to do it again, but Moicheia is pretty interesting since it also translates to
adultery. But I don’t see why you would bring this up since the Greek word used in Matthew is clearly
Pornea. And yes, I did use the Vines dictionary, and it, too, agrees with me.
“The word porneia in Matthew 5 and Matthew 19 does not, and cannot mean in this context, adultery …porneia can, and more often does mean fornication by an UNmarried person — prior to marriage.”
“in
Matthew 5:32 ;
19:9 it stands for, or includes, adultery;” (
StudyLight)
Adultery: voluntary sexual intercourse between a
married person and a person who is
not his or her spouse.
“THIS IS THE ONLY MEANING THAT FITS THE CONTEXT IN MATTHEW 5 AND 19, CONSISTENT WITH GOD’S LAW AND ALL THE OTHER SCRIPTURES, AND CONSISTENT WITH GOD’S PURPOSE!”
First off, were the caps really necessary. It feels like your yelling at me lol. Also, um...
“Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the
marriage bed be
undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and
adulterous.” (Hebrews 13:4)
“If a
man commits adultery with the
wife of his neighbor, both the
adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.” (Leviticus 20:10)
“She saw that for all the
adulteries of that
faithless one, Israel, I had sent her away with a decree of divorce. Yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but
she too went and played the [promiscuous woman].” (Jeremiah 3:8)
All of these verses are talking about adultery in the context of marriage. Also, Jeremiah provides another example of God separating himself, this time from entire nations. He still loves them without a doubt, as He is the embodiment of agape, but He doesn’t stay tied to them. Why should we in the context of divorce?
“Matthew alone mentions ‘except it be for porneia’ because only he has explained the incident of Joseph thinking to put away Mary his betrothed. When Jesus said these words, recorded in Matthew 5 and 19, He was very conscious of the fact that this very ‘exception clause’ INVOLVED HIS OWN CONCEPTION AND BIRTH.”
what? No. Are you saying that Matthew added the “except it be for Pornea” to cover Jesus’ behind? Are you serious? Are you... are you actually serious...?
Jesus didn’t come to change the law, he came to clarify a few things about the law. The old law said that a man must provide a certificate of divorce for his wife, but that was likely added by the Pharisees in order to make some extra bank on certificate fees. Jesus came to tell everyone “no, don’t divorce your spouse” and he provides an exception for the case of “Pornea” becuase, as I had shown in previous verses, this was a very common idea. Jesus didn’t come to be an “exception“, Jesus came to live like us, among us, to show us the way to true salvation. If Jesus really was to be an exception, then that would be counterproductive for his mission. That would mean that the laws didn’t apply to him, but they did, because he was born a humble birth and grew up as a man to show us and live by
example for us.
And we must also remember:
“What God has join together let NO man put asunder”. (Matthew 19:6)
-except in cases of sexual immorality.
“If you do divorce REMAIN unmarried or be reconciled unto your own husband or wife”. (1 Corinthians 7:11)
This verse is pretty interesting. Paul is one of my favorite writers in the Bible, and he makes some pretty interesting points in this passage on being unevenly yoked:
“(12)If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. (13) And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. (14) For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband.”
however, if you keep reading, you’ll find that it also says this:
“(15) But if the unbeliever leaves, let it be so. The brother or the sister is not bound in such circumstances;
God has called us to live in peace. (16) How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?”
Which basically means, if your unbelieving spouse leaves you, then let them.
The Lord knows your heart my guy. If you separate from a person for whatever reason, then that’s between them and God.
I probably missed something, but who knows. I started writing this at around two in the morning, and it’s already almost 4 in the morning. So let me know if I missed or misunderstood something.
“The way” is hard and narrow and only a Few find it. Many have died a violent death to stay on that path. Which path will you choose.
