More 'bible prophecy fulfilled before our eyes'

[Hitch]

When is comes to the rapture, you know that sudden weird thing that is supposed to happen 'any moment' , lots of believing people point to recent events , usually in the Middle East, as fulfilled prophecy. Christian publications have often proclaimed 'Prophecy fulfilled before our eyes! ' . Most adherents dont care enough to see the obvious conflict. Futurism has been the realm of good speakers telling folks what they want to hear for almost 200 years. Gaps gaffs and outright silliness are seen as unimportant compared to the 'message' . Remember it was only 25 years ago earth quakes were doubling every year. ooops! Thats all fun stuff but I want to stick to the main point.
If you want to believe the rapture could come any moment you must do so at the cost of citations of current and recent events as prophetic fulfillment. It is not possible that both are true ,at the same time.

 

[Shaolin]

When is comes to the rapture, you know that sudden weird thing that is supposed to happen 'any moment' , lots of believing people point to recent events , usually in the Middle East, as fulfilled prophecy. Christian publications have often proclaimed 'Prophecy fulfilled before our eyes! ' . Most adherents dont care enough to see the obvious conflict. Futurism has been the realm of good speakers telling folks what they want to hear for almost 200 years. Gaps gaffs and outright silliness are seen as unimportant compared to the 'message' . Remember it was only 25 years ago earth quakes were doubling every year. ooops! Thats all fun stuff but I want to stick to the main point.
If you want to believe the rapture could come any moment you must do so at the cost of citations of current and recent events as prophetic fulfillment. It is not possible that both are true ,at the same time.

There have been many morons in the past using sensationalism about the rapture and prophecy to make stupid claims and get rich quick by selling books and videos. However, those who pay attention could see what those frauds were doing...particularly because they knew Scripture.

To make the claim that the rapture is years away, is really quite moronic. While there are many prophecies that have come to pass regarding the rapture, they have not ALL come to pass yet...and until they all come to pass, anyone making statements to the fact that it can happen any day now doesn't know what they are talking about. For example...

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,
2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

Now...the "rebellion" or more accurately from the Greek, the Great Apostasy, has happened...and is still happening today. Since about 2012 people have been leaving the church to the tune of 1,000's every year, due to false doctrines that people who never had a real relationship with God chose to believe...but the second part of the prophetic statement has NOT yet taken place (and which most pastors and teachers today ignore because they don't like the implications thereof).

The man who will become the antichrist WILL be revealed to the world BEFORE the rapture hits. That is what Paul says by the Holy Spirit...yet we never hear that over the pulpit, because they either don't know Scripture, or they preach out of their bias rather than out of the truth of God's Word. Until the antichrist is revealed, the rapture will not take place. Keeping a finger on the pulse of the global community, he has not been revealed yet...therefore, the rapture cannot take place "at any time."

Hope that helps your skepticism.

 

[Bill]

When is comes to the rapture, you know that sudden weird thing that is supposed to happen 'any moment' , lots of believing people point to recent events , usually in the Middle East, as fulfilled prophecy. Christian publications have often proclaimed 'Prophecy fulfilled before our eyes! ' . Most adherents dont care enough to see the obvious conflict. Futurism has been the realm of good speakers telling folks what they want to hear for almost 200 years. Gaps gaffs and outright silliness are seen as unimportant compared to the 'message' . Remember it was only 25 years ago earth quakes were doubling every year. ooops! Thats all fun stuff but I want to stick to the main point.
If you want to believe the rapture could come any moment you must do so at the cost of citations of current and recent events as prophetic fulfillment. It is not possible that both are true ,at the same time.

If we look at the rest of scripture I have yet to find one place or God removes his people off the planet to heaven.

In fact every single time that God shows his hand to remove his followers from any given situation, they are always always sent out to the desert. They are uprooted remove out of the situation but they still have to live their lives going through the desert.

There are many people in the world that believe in the false teaching of the rapture. What part of this teaching shows God sending his people into the desert.

Somehow I cannot relate heaven as being the desert

 

[Shaolin]

If we look at the rest of scripture I have yet to find one place or God removes his people off the planet to heaven.

In fact every single time that God shows his hand to remove his followers from any given situation, they are always always sent out to the desert. They are uprooted remove out of the situation but they still have to live their lives going through the desert.

There are many people in the world that believe in the false teaching of the rapture. What part of this teaching shows God sending his people into the desert.

Somehow I cannot relate heaven as being the desert

So, are you saying that you ignore the passages of Scripture that do teach that God removes His people?

Matthew 24:40-41
Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left.

Luke 17:34-35
I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. One will be taken and the other left. There will be two women grinding together. One will be taken and the other left."

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

In context, every one of the passages above address the rapture - or the "catching away" of saved believers.

 

[Bill]

So, are you saying that you ignore the passages of Scripture that do teach that God removes His people?

Matthew 24:40-41
Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left.

Luke 17:34-35
I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. One will be taken and the other left. There will be two women grinding together. One will be taken and the other left."

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

In context, every one of the passages above address the rapture - or the "catching away" of saved believers.

Sounds like the second coming of the Lord to me .

So where does the Rapture come into this, The Great Escape before all the poop hits the fan. Because Jesus isn't coming before but after.

You can scream to the mountain tops that Jesus Christ as your lord and savior but if you do not have love in your heart you have nothing.

Until the Christians can find love in their heart for their brothers and sisters in the Catholic Church you will not find peace, but the same also goes for the Catholics if they cannot find love in their hearts for the Protestant churches if they cannot find forgiveness then they are also in peril

I'm well aware that the teaching has gone on for quite a few years is still a false teaching the devil is doing well to brainwash everyone into this false Doctrine. Imagine the day will come when you realize you've been duped what then so many Christians are going to fall into the One World Church so many that are so deep now will fall because they have put more faith into the Rapture then they have into their own Lord

 

[Bill]

There have been many morons in the past using sensationalism about the rapture and prophecy to make stupid claims and get rich quick by selling books and videos. However, those who pay attention could see what those frauds were doing...particularly because they knew Scripture.

To make the claim that the rapture is years away, is really quite moronic. While there are many prophecies that have come to pass regarding the rapture, they have not ALL come to pass yet...and until they all come to pass, anyone making statements to the fact that it can happen any day now doesn't know what they are talking about. For example...

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,
2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

Now...the "rebellion" or more accurately from the Greek, the Great Apostasy, has happened...and is still happening today. Since about 2012 people have been leaving the church to the tune of 1,000's every year, due to false doctrines that people who never had a real relationship with God chose to believe...but the second part of the prophetic statement has NOT yet taken place (and which most pastors and teachers today ignore because they don't like the implications thereof).

The man who will become the antichrist WILL be revealed to the world BEFORE the rapture hits. That is what Paul says by the Holy Spirit...yet we never hear that over the pulpit, because they either don't know Scripture, or they preach out of their bias rather than out of the truth of God's Word. Until the antichrist is revealed, the rapture will not take place. Keeping a finger on the pulse of the global community, he has not been revealed yet...therefore, the rapture cannot take place "at any time."

Hope that helps your skepticism.

Then I will give you one prophecy about the rapture that will come true it will not take place as everyone thinks. The only rapture there is is when Jesus returns

 

[Bill]

Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air,

Doesn't this passage show you that you have to go through the tribulation. Just read the first line carefully then we who are alive who are left

And then it reads that we will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air

The second coming of Jesus

 

[Shaolin]

Sounds like the second coming of the Lord to me .

It all depends upon context. In some contexts, some passages are referring to the second coming (which is why I did not use them). As I stated, in the contexts of the passages that I gave, it speaks of the catching away before the Tribulation period, therefore they do not address the second coming.

So where does the Rapture come into this, The Great Escape before all the poop hits the fan. Because Jesus isn't coming before but after.

Basically...

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

The Great Tribulation period is a time that God will pour out His wrath upon the earth, and His children do not need to suffer wrath because their sins have been dealt with already.

You can scream to the mountain tops that Jesus Christ as your lord and savior but if you do not have love in your heart you have nothing.

True...but that has nothing to do with the current conversation.

Until the Christians can find love in their heart for their brothers and sisters in the Catholic Church you will not find peace, but the same also goes for the Catholics if they cannot find love in their hearts for the Protestant churches if they cannot find forgiveness then they are also in peril

Not only love, but forgiveness...if one does not forgive, even if saved, then he will still end up in eternal fire...but that has nothing to do with the rapture.

I'm well aware that the teaching has gone on for quite a few years is still a false teaching the devil is doing well to brainwash everyone into this false Doctrine.

Well...the only part of the rapture that is false, is what false teachers teach saying that it will not happen until halfway through the Great Tribulation. Other than that, I gave clear passages that teach the rapture, it is no more a false doctrine than is the doctrine of grace. Only preachers and teachers that are part of the apostate church teach that there is no rapture.

Imagine the day will come when you realize you've been duped what then so many Christians are going to fall into the One World Church so many that are so deep now will fall because they have put more faith into the Rapture then they have into their own Lord

While I agree that some put more faith in the rapture than in God, those of us who have a balanced understanding of Scripture have nothing to worry about - the Rapture is a valid doctrine of Scripture, I will not be duped because of that fact.

 

[Shaolin]

Then I will give you one prophecy about the rapture that will come true it will not take place as everyone thinks. The only rapture there is is when Jesus returns

Apparently you don't understand the plan of the second coming. The rapture of the church is the first part of the second coming, any well versed theologian (NOT apostate or liberal theologians) will tell you that. Then the culmination of the second coming will take place after the great tribulation period, when He comes to establish His kingdom on earth.

Since you are not a prophet, your prediction means little.

 

[complete]

@Hitch
@Shaolin
@Bill

Hello there,

Referring to believers either past or present as morons because they have a different understanding of prophetic events to ourselves is not reflecting the love and grace of God.

 

[Bill]

It all depends upon context. In some contexts, some passages are referring to the second coming (which is why I did not use them). As I stated, in the contexts of the passages that I gave, it speaks of the catching away before the Tribulation period, therefore they do not address the second coming.



Basically...

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

The Great Tribulation period is a time that God will pour out His wrath upon the earth, and His children do not need to suffer wrath because their sins have been dealt with already.



True...but that has nothing to do with the current conversation.



Not only love, but forgiveness...if one does not forgive, even if saved, then he will still end up in eternal fire...but that has nothing to do with the rapture.



Well...the only part of the rapture that is false, is what false teachers teach saying that it will not happen until halfway through the Great Tribulation. Other than that, I gave clear passages that teach the rapture, it is no more a false doctrine than is the doctrine of grace. Only preachers and teachers that are part of the apostate church teach that there is no rapture.



While I agree that some put more faith in the rapture than in God, those of us who have a balanced understanding of Scripture have nothing to worry about - the Rapture is a valid doctrine of Scripture, I will not be duped because of that fact.

You're taking it out of context though on a number of your passages.

God is is not intended for us to receive his Wrath but our problem is that we are sinners

He wants us to be with him in Paradise but our problem is that we are sinners like I was saying so we have to go through the chastisement we have to go through the tribulation. Because you have to be perfect before you enter Heaven.

Yes Jesus forgave us of our sins but we still send and we still hate and we still have not forgiven and we still do not love we must find love in our hearts you must forgive in your heart without those two there's nothing

Let me ask you this question if Jesus was the finishing point for everything by dying on the cross why would Paul say that he had striven for the goal why would you just not worry about anything. What would be the point of trying to be holy as Jesus said be holy for I am Holy what would be the point of that?

If everything that you do after the point that you accept Jesus as Lord and savior if everything you do doesn't count then what would be the point of trying?

 

[Bill]

Apparently you don't understand the plan of the second coming. The rapture of the church is the first part of the second coming, any well versed theologian (NOT apostate or liberal theologians) will tell you that. Then the culmination of the second coming will take place after the great tribulation period, when He comes to establish His kingdom on earth.

Since you are not a prophet, your prediction means little.

I like being " not a prophet " in your eyes. Thank you . There will be a time when many will hate me. But i dont really care about it, if i am liked or not . That isnt why i am here.

My work is to do the task that is set out for me. To Witness the Truth

 

[Bill]

You're taking it out of context though on a number of your passages.

God is is not intended for us to receive his Wrath but our problem is that we are sinners

He wants us to be with him in Paradise but our problem is that we are sinners like I was saying so we have to go through the chastisement we have to go through the tribulation. Because you have to be perfect before you enter Heaven.

Yes Jesus forgave us of our sins but we still send and we still hate and we still have not forgiven and we still do not love we must find love in our hearts you must forgive in your heart without those two there's nothing

Let me ask you this question if Jesus was the finishing point for everything by dying on the cross why would Paul say that he had striven for the goal why would you just not worry about anything. What would be the point of trying to be holy as Jesus said be holy for I am Holy what would be the point of that?

If everything that you do after the point that you accept Jesus as Lord and savior if everything you do doesn't count then what would be the point of trying?

By the way, the " Plan " that you are making for God, is not the plan God is making for the world

 

[Shaolin]

@Hitch
@Shaolin
@Bill

Hello there,

Referring to believers either past or present as morons because they have a different understanding of prophetic events to ourselves is not reflecting the love and grace of God.

The word "moron" comes from the Greek morones, meaning stupid, foolish, morally worthless, which addresses one's character. Jesus called the Pharisees and religious unthinking people morones because of how they were acting. In a way, it does show God's love and grace, because you are trying to get a person to understand that they are being foolish in their current behavior and doctrine since it does not follow Scripture.

 

[Shaolin]

You're taking it out of context though on a number of your passages.

Obviously you are only regurgitating nonsense that you have heard others use in such an argument - every passage I gave is in context...or maybe you don't understand what the word "context" means.

God is is not intended for us to receive his Wrath but our problem is that we are sinners

If you are still a sinner, then you are not saved. Unless...of course...you subscribe to the false teachings in calvinism and you believe that you are a "sinner saved by grace." If a person is saved, then they are no longer a practicing sinner, and only practicing sinners are "sinners" in the NT. If you are still a sinner, then you don't have the Holy Spirit and you cannot understand Scripture.

He wants us to be with him in Paradise but our problem is that we are sinners like I was saying so we have to go through the chastisement we have to go through the tribulation. Because you have to be perfect before you enter Heaven.

You demonstrate by such a statement that you do not understand Scripture...like I was saying. A person who is saved and actively walking with God IS "perfect" in His eyes. Our perfection "view" does not come from ourselves, but from Him. When He looks at a person who is saved and in Christ, He sees perfection. What you believe on this point is not according to Scripture.

Yes Jesus forgave us of our sins but we still send and we still hate and we still have not forgiven and we still do not love we must find love in our hearts you must forgive in your heart without those two there's nothing

No...maybe YOU do...which is yet another evidence that you have not truly been saved...

Let me ask you this question if Jesus was the finishing point for everything by dying on the cross why would Paul say that he had striven for the goal why would you just not worry about anything. What would be the point of trying to be holy as Jesus said be holy for I am Holy what would be the point of that?

First of all, the cross is NOT the "finishing point," you indeed have been fed some very bad false doctrine. The cross is the beginning point, NOT the ending point. The fact that you ask the second question only deepens the fact that you have been fed false doctrine, and apparently, right out of calvinism...which is a Christian false religion like the JW's and Mormons. Practicing holiness and righteousness keeps a person abiding in Christ, just as Scripture clearly teaches. If you are not walking in obedience to God, then you are not in Christ, even if you did get saved in the past. That is "the point"...God demands that you PRACTICE what He has given to you, and what He has given to you as a gift is the imputed righteousness and holiness of Christ - and according to covenant principles, if you fail to practice what He has given to you, then He will take it away from you. When He does that, you are no longer saved, you no longer have eternal life. You are not His any longer.

If everything that you do after the point that you accept Jesus as Lord and savior if everything you do doesn't count then what would be the point of trying?

The ONLY people who claim that it doesn't count, are those poor uneducated people who have been brainwashed with calvinism, because calvinism is the ONLY false religion that teaches that kind of nonsense.

Blessings!

 

[Shaolin]

I like being " not a prophet " in your eyes. Thank you . There will be a time when many will hate me. But i dont really care about it, if i am liked or not . That isnt why i am here.

My work is to do the task that is set out for me. To Witness the Truth

REALLY??? Gosh...another self-proclaimed prophet among us here at Talk Jesus!!!!! OH! How exciting!!!

Sorry, bill, God did not send you here...but there are others here who also hear voices that have come here, you guys should get together and form your own little group, then you can all tell each other the singular "message" that the voices are telling you are the truth. Maybe...just maybe...you guys just might come to the understanding that there is only one truth, and when each of you keep yelling at one another your own singular "truth" the voices gave you, then just maybe you might see what's really going on.

Maybe...but I doubt it.

 

[Bill]

REALLY??? Gosh...another self-proclaimed prophet among us here at Talk Jesus!!!!! OH! How exciting!!!

Sorry, bill, God did not send you here...but there are others here who also hear voices that have come here, you guys should get together and form your own little group, then you can all tell each other the singular "message" that the voices are telling you are the truth. Maybe...just maybe...you guys just might come to the understanding that there is only one truth, and when each of you keep yelling at one another your own singular "truth" the voices gave you, then just maybe you might see what's really going on.

Maybe...but I doubt it.

I was never self proclaimed , it was you that calls me one . Lol

It would not matter if there were phophets here, no one here listens to the Holy Spirit . Oh excuse me, there are a hand full who do hear the Holy Spirit, but they dont have the courage to make a stand. More concerned how they are viewed by thier friends here.

All you have to do is ask the Holy Spirit, if you dare. Then you would know.

 

[complete]

The word "moron" comes from the Greek morones, meaning stupid, foolish, morally worthless, which addresses one's character. Jesus called the Pharisees and religious unthinking people morones because of how they were acting. In a way, it does show God's love and grace, because you are trying to get a person to understand that they are being foolish in their current behavior and doctrine since it does not follow Scripture.

Hello @Shaolin,

No child of God can be called a 'moron', for, regardless of their condition in the flesh, or of their understanding of the Scriptures, they have been quickened by the Spirit, and born from above.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Bill]

Hello @Shaolin,

No child of God can be called a 'moron', for, regardless of their condition in the flesh, or of their understanding of the Scriptures, they have been quickened by the Spirit, and born from above.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

It is the way of the world friend it will get worse before it gets better.

Unfortunately many Christians will believe that they are following the true church in the future and they will hand over their brothers and sisters fathers and mothers to the authorities

What happened in the past with the true Christians being caught before the Lions and torn apart will pale with what's coming.

Just remember to put your faith in the Lord Jesus and nothing else this includes putting your faith into the rapture. Remember the First Commandment, you're making the rapture into a false god

If you want to see the truth of this all you have to ask yourself to whom does the rapture serve. Does it serve the Lord or does it Serve Yourself

 

[Dave M]

It is the way of the world friend it will get worse before it gets better.

Unfortunately many Christians will believe that they are following the true church in the future and they will hand over their brothers and sisters fathers and mothers to the authorities

What happened in the past with the true Christians being caught before the Lions and torn apart will pale with what's coming.

Just remember to put your faith in the Lord Jesus and nothing else this includes putting your faith into the rapture. Remember the First Commandment, you're making the rapture into a false god

If you want to see the truth of this all you have to ask yourself to whom does the rapture serve. Does it serve the Lord or does it Serve Yourself

Bill you speak a lot about the rapture, I am going to start a thread please reply

thanks