No arguments please

[Brad Huber]

I wanted to ask other peoples council as to a reason why I have noticed something that has occurred for as long as I can remember, but have no good reason to explain it.

With the severe cold we have had in this area, there has been water main breaks in the news alot that interrupt water provided to homes and businesses. This is the question....
Why do we never complain to the people who can address the situation correctly, the sight of nearly a dozen city or state workers at a repair site where only 1 or 2 work and the rest stand around doing nothing. These are highly paid people, that we are paying for with our taxes, that do nothing much half (or more) of the time, and even worse, dont even seem guilty about it. On TV, there were 9 city workers at a water break site, one sitting in the backhoe that is no longer working, one working in the hole in the ground that the backhoe cleared out and 7 standing around talking. I have seen this type of division of labor in govt jobs very often. Is there anyone who can give me a valid reason why this happens so much or if not, why we just accept it, when we are a representative form of govt.?

Just wanting some other peoples opinions on this, and hopefully someone with experience who can give me a good reason why this might be happening.

 

[Lanolin]

Maybe they are contractors or temps?

I have worked in local govt before and its people at the top who are highly paid and the ones at the bottom are not. The ones at the bottom often cant do their jobs effectively due to bad decisions or indecision and unclear instructions from the ones at the top. Also a lot of work gets contracted out, and there are some cowboys as council usually gives the tender to the one who can do it cheapest.

I see that in workplaces so often the ones meant to be the boss give the work to those below and then end up chatting on the phone or having endless 'meetings' where no actual work gets done. But you need to be understanding that without meetings we cant get everyone to agree and they need to otherwise the work cant go ahead...and it takes ages...that is bureaucracy for you.

What this means for christians...well we just mind our own business and do our own work and we will have our reward, rather than get all annoyed when people seem to be slacking.

 

[Dave M]

Brad I agree with you on this. But the government is not a business they do not have to worry about making money or being efficient like a business does. everything they touch is messed up !!

 

[Lanolin]

LOl should have my job where theres like 400 residents, all sharing this garden on the grounds, and only 1-2 gardener for the whole site. Sometimes a few join us to actually do work and garden but most of them just sit round doing nothing. Because they are retired and got nothing better to do than chat and they also get highly paid on the pension...enough to afford to live there.

Of course their excuse is they are older and retired and don't have to do any work. Just tell us what should be done. Me, a lowly worker, has come to accept it, supposedly when I am elderly I can rest in my rocking chair and chat while watching someone else work. (actually I don't see many rocking chairs, many are using those walkers these days). But then most don't know anything about gardening and can't be bothered and don't want to learn.

Personally I think if you want a job done fast a contractor will often do it better or more efficiently than in house. But that's not always the case, sometimes slow is better. Lets say everyone at the retirement village could do the garden then they wouldn't need to even employ me...but then they might not have a spectacular garden lol. Maybe by virtue of me working there I am taking away jobs from them they could learn to do themselves?

Ok the thing is not everyone knows about say plumbing and water mains. So they call the expert rather than people who just don't know what they are doing. Some people are given jobs in which actually they don't know what to do --local govt did think that librarians are just people sorting books they kind of never gave any credence that many are highly trained to do that work or how many it might take to do the job. its much easier to talk about it than do it it seems which is why some libraries are crumbling and falling apart.....

anyway. Scripture says be quiet and do the work of your own hands. Also not to be slothful in business.

So take heed. I mean I still am furious that some council people messed up the church garden and put horrible weedmat on and didn't even finish the job so it looks terrible. Lazy people use weedmat..but they didn't even cover it with bark mulch. Just kind of left it flapping around and killing the soil, and so that you can't even plant anything else there. They didn't even clear out any weeds underneath the weedmat. I don't think they will be back to finish the job.

Moral of the story sometimes if you want things done you do it yourself or call the right person, not the bureaucracy or committee who just have meetings about it.

 

[Brad Huber]

Maybe they are contractors or temps?

I have worked in local govt before and its people at the top who are highly paid and the ones at the bottom are not. The ones at the bottom often cant do their jobs effectively due to bad decisions or indecision and unclear instructions from the ones at the top. Also a lot of work gets contracted out, and there are some cowboys as council usually gives the tender to the one who can do it cheapest.

I see that in workplaces so often the ones meant to be the boss give the work to those below and then end up chatting on the phone or having endless 'meetings' where no actual work gets done. But you need to be understanding that without meetings we cant get everyone to agree and they need to otherwise the work cant go ahead...and it takes ages...that is bureaucracy for you.

What this means for christians...well we just mind our own business and do our own work and we will have our reward, rather than get all annoyed when people seem to be slacking.

They get paid very well, although not as much those higher up in the govt structure. Working a non-govt laborer job will bring perhaps 7 to 10 dollars an hour starting pay with little to no benefits (in this area) and often part time. A govt laborer job like road work or city water pays 10 to 18 starting pay with full benefits and full time. I was hoping that perhaps there was a lot of training going on, just a couple of people who know what they are doing and others training to learn more. But with those jobs so popular to get and stay in, I cant see that much turnover, that would require a lot of new hires regularly that have to be trained. And in a representative govt, its our responsibility to help that govt do well versus ignoring it and hoping that evil people dont take it over. But positions of power attract all the wrong people for all the wrong reasons. That is the reason that the church is in such bad shape in this age compared to new testament times, too many people get involved with churchs for all the wrong reasons, to many never question what is being done and why. Just a select few leaders that tell everyone else to do and want them to provide the funds... sounds too much like govt. Getting involved and seeing if change is possible is the right thing to do in both situations, but saying its not my responsibility is what got both in such bad shape.

 

[Lanolin]

They get paid very well, although not as much those higher up in the govt structure. Working a non-govt laborer job will bring perhaps 7 to 10 dollars an hour starting pay with little to no benefits (in this area) and often part time. A govt laborer job like road work or city water pays 10 to 18 starting pay with full benefits and full time. I was hoping that perhaps there was a lot of training going on, just a couple of people who know what they are doing and others training to learn more. But with those jobs so popular to get and stay in, I cant see that much turnover, that would require a lot of new hires regularly that have to be trained. And in a representative govt, its our responsibility to help that govt do well versus ignoring it and hoping that evil people dont take it over. But positions of power attract all the wrong people for all the wrong reasons. That is the reason that the church is in such bad shape in this age compared to new testament times, too many people get involved with churchs for all the wrong reasons, to many never question what is being done and why. Just a select few leaders that tell everyone else to do and want them to provide the funds... sounds too much like govt. Getting involved and seeing if change is possible is the right thing to do in both situations, but saying its not my responsibility is what got both in such bad shape.

that is so true Brad I don't know your exact situation with your local govt but there seems to be a culture of 'passing the buck' ingrained in organisations including some churches.

We all need to take responsibility and be stewards of what God has entrusted us with, and we all have different gifts and talents. But also we need to teach those younger and new in the faith how to do things not just tell them what to do and expect them to know. one thing I like to emphasise is reading the Bible, to get into the habit, and to encourage people. If people don't bother to read the Bible and only go on some verses they pick out yet ignore others, thats akin to just skimming the instructions and not really following things step by step. So when people's work isn't perfect or as excellent as it could be its because they've taken a shortcut or missed something.

 

[Christ4Ever]

I wanted to ask other peoples council as to a reason why I have noticed something that has occurred for as long as I can remember, but have no good reason to explain it.

With the severe cold we have had in this area, there has been water main breaks in the news alot that interrupt water provided to homes and businesses. This is the question....
Why do we never complain to the people who can address the situation correctly, the sight of nearly a dozen city or state workers at a repair site where only 1 or 2 work and the rest stand around doing nothing. These are highly paid people, that we are paying for with our taxes, that do nothing much half (or more) of the time, and even worse, dont even seem guilty about it. On TV, there were 9 city workers at a water break site, one sitting in the backhoe that is no longer working, one working in the hole in the ground that the backhoe cleared out and 7 standing around talking. I have seen this type of division of labor in govt jobs very often. Is there anyone who can give me a valid reason why this happens so much or if not, why we just accept it, when we are a representative form of govt.?

Just wanting some other peoples opinions on this, and hopefully someone with experience who can give me a good reason why this might be happening.

2 doing the work while 7 sit around. Well, it took two to drive the equipment there along with the tools and they don't trust the others, so they're staying to make sure nobody takes anything home with them. Then you had the ones who initially cleared away the debris so that those who are the specialist (2) can access the pipes to fix them. Normally, that would about four, depending on the break. They're staying, because if there is more debris that needs clearing, they don't want to make the long trip back. Then of course you have the Supervisor. Who has to make sure everybody is doing what they're supposed to do and not what they're not trained for. However I do believe your count was off. Cheerleaders are always needed, especially in the cold, because you know the morale of the workers are very important!

Like the saying goes "Better to have too many then too few.".....

Reminds me of when I was out in the field while in the military, setting up a deployment site as night was starting to settle in. Work was ongoing all over the place. Anyway, there were seven of us off loading a semi-permanent shelter (Big monster of a shelter) from a 2 1/2 ton truck. With this Chief looking on. The Commander drove by in his jeep and asked the Chief how it was going. The Chief said everything was going great and the men were doing a fine job and would have the shelter up in no time. The Commander then told the Chief "They'd be doing a lot finer Chief, if you were to grab a hold of one of those corners". I do believe if none of us had an opinion concerning the Commander before that moment. There after, there was not one of us who won't have charged a hill for him! Except maybe that Chief

I'd rather have been one of the two workers fixing the pipes. A lot tougher in the cold just standing around doing nothing! I'm sure you'd of been right beside me helping brother and we'd not be alone if Sister Lanolin & Brother Dave were there as well!!! We'd of gotten it done twice as fast! Then after we were done, we could leave the site, while the others took to burying the pipe back up!

God's blessings to all.

YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Brad Huber]

Yes, in the cold, I would want to be one of the ones working. If I was in charge, I would train more people to do more things. You shouldnt have just one for safety's sake, but you could have 3 people who can easily be trained to drive. One hauling the trailer holding the backhoe and other needed equip, one dump truck for hauling away stuff not needed to go back down the hole once repairs are done, and one pickup for additional tools etc that wont fit on the trailer. Then 1 of those 3 would specialize in backhoe work, but can drive or help out if need be, one can specialize in driving the trailer and how not everyone can back them up well, or drive any of them as easily, an d then one specialize in the most experienced in the actual repair, and all three able to help out as needed. I could send 3 person teams out and probably get just as much work done, and not charge taxpayers so much. But I dont live in the city where I saw all those people on the news. So I woudnt feel right about complaining. But if I saw it here, I might bring it up at a council meeting.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Believe it or not. Much of what is done is because of Union demands, Government ineptitude in business and mostly concerned with the political side of it.

It's why we have cities going bankrupt. Poor management decisions, and Unions not looking out for anyone but the worker. The larger picture, of how it may affects the populace isn't the main factor. Happened in Detroit MI. Sad, but not having Christ in your life, or in how you operate be it business, or government. Makes for a very sad ending.

But that's another story!

 

[Lanolin]

I found this Colossians 3:22-25 and Colossians 4:1

 

[Rick Love]

Believe it or not. Much of what is done is because of Union demands, Government ineptitude in business and mostly concerned with the political side of it.

It's why we have cities going bankrupt. Poor management decisions, and Unions not looking out for anyone but the worker. The larger picture, of how it may affects the populace isn't the main factor. Happened in Detroit MI. Sad, but not having Christ in your life, or in how you operate be it business, or government. Makes for a very sad ending.

But that's another story!

Oh yes, don't dare touch anything not in your job description if union. About got in trouble one time because I suggested someone unscrew some screws while we waited for the electrician for a city job. Oh boy! So I waited until he arrived 15 min later and then I unscrewed the screws. Duh!