No, You Can't be A Christian!

[RJ]

Do you want things to improve in your 'Christian Walk"?
When I finally realized that "I" couldn't be a Christian, many things came into focus. Does that strike you odd, that I believe in something like that?

I know in my heart that many "Christians' across this world struggle with their faith because they work so hard at "Being A Christian" and turn around feeling empty, that they have, for some reason, failed.

I certainly struggled, until I stopped trying to figure out Who, What, Why, and, especially I stopped trying to be a Christian.
I finally realized that I couldn't be a Christian myself but, what I could do was to, ever increasingly, let Jesus Christ live His life through me. The more that I do that, the more I let God be God,the more I please God and the more I have the peace that he promises. There are many verses that continually remind me of this but, none more than the following:
Ephesians 2: 8-9
For by grace are ye saved through FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
John 15:5
5 I am the VINE, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

God wants us to be a vessel, a branch and let His Son be the vine and do His works through us. If one will just let go and let God, they will see Him working His master plan through them!

 

[NoHype]

One who believes on The Father through His Promised Saviour Jesus Christ and seeks to follow Him by His commandments is... a Christian, and has always meant that from the first time that label was used by the early Christians at Antioch.

It doesn't matter that the devil's children try to turn the meaning of the word Christian into other things, all one need do is focus on The Father and His Son and His Word by The Holy Spirit, and know that in time those murmerers against Christ Jesus will come to nothing.

 

[RJ]

One who believes on The Father through His Promised Saviour Jesus Christ and seeks to follow Him by His commandments is... a Christian, and has always meant that from the first time that label was used by the early Christians at Antioch.

It doesn't matter that the devil's children try to turn the meaning of the word Christian into other things, all one need do is focus on The Father and His Son and His Word by The Holy Spirit, and know that in time those murmerers against Christ Jesus will come to nothing.

I view it a bit differently.

• When you believe in and recieve God's free gift and he gives you his son to live inside you, that designates you as a Christian, "Born Again".
• Once you are a Christian, one of the first fruits and a sign that you are a Christian, is the desire to follow him, having him fulfill his commandments through you.

 

[B-A-C]

I view it a bit differently.

When you believe in and recieve God's free gift and he gives you his son to live inside you, that designates you as a Christian, "Born Again".
Once you are a Christian, one of the first fruits and a sign that you are a Christian, is the desire to follow him, having him fulfill his commandments through you.

Technically it's the Holy Spirit that dwells in us. I don't know about any scripture that says Christ dwells in us, but I know several that say the Spirit dwells in us.
Rom 8:9; Rom 8:11; 1 Cor 3:16; 2 Tim 1:14; etc..

We may have the desire to follow Jesus for a while, but that changes in some people over a period of time. Also, even though we have the desire to do right,
we don't always do it. Paul didn't. Peter didn't, Judas definitely didn't. Esau didn't, and David didn't. Annanias and Sapphira didn't.

 

[DHC]

Technically it's the Holy Spirit that dwells in us. I don't know about any scripture that says Christ dwells in us, but I know several that say the Spirit dwells in us.
Rom 8:9; Rom 8:11; 1 Cor 3:16; 2 Tim 1:14; etc..

Hello B-A-C.

In between the first two verses you quoted above from Romans, there is this verse.

Romans 8
10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

[Travis]

Technically it's the Holy Spirit that dwells in us. I don't know about any scripture that says Christ dwells in us, but I know several that say the Spirit dwells in us.
Rom 8:9; Rom 8:11; 1 Cor 3:16; 2 Tim 1:14; etc..

We may have the desire to follow Jesus for a while, but that changes in some people over a period of time. Also, even though we have the desire to do right,
we don't always do it. Paul didn't. Peter didn't, Judas definitely didn't. Esau didn't, and David didn't. Annanias and Sapphira didn't.

Romans 8
8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

2 Corinthians 3
13 not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. 14 But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. 15 Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. 16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

Christ is in us, because the Spirit is in is us. But Christ is most definitely in us.

Ephesians 3
16 that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith--that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18 may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth,

 

[Taylor Barrett]

That is a cool way of thinking about it, RJ.

 

[RJ]

• Well, technically, I don't see much difference between Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.
• Galatians 4:6 You have a spirit, I have a spirit, Jesus spirit is the Holy Spirit!
• You don't see them as the same?
• As a Christian, the spirit of Christ does not live in you?

 

[B-A-C]

Well, technically, I don't see much difference between Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.
Galatians 4:6 You have a spirit, I have a spirit, Jesus spirit is the Holy Spirit!
You don't see them as the same?
As a Christian, the spirit of Christ does not live in you?

They are both God, but they are NOT both Jesus. Jesus is the not the Father, the Father is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not Jesus.
I do NOT see them as the same at all. They have different roles.

Where is Jesus?

Luke 22:69; "But from now on THE SON OF MAN WILL BE SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND of the power OF GOD."
Eph 1:20; which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
Col 3:1; Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Did Jesus say he was going to stay here on the earth? Or did he say he was going to send the Holy Spirit?

John 16:7; "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
Acts 1:11; They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."

 

[B-A-C]

8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. 10 But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.

This entire passage is about the Holy Spirit.

Rom 8:8; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9; However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
Rom 8:10; If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11; But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

 

[Travis]

This entire passage is about the Holy Spirit.

Rom 8:8; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9; However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
Rom 8:10; If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11; But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

I mean, we are kind of splitting hairs here. But the scriptures do say that Christ is in us. He is one with the Holy Spirit, so through the Holy Spirit he is in us. Is Christ's physical body inside of me.... well no. But he is one with the Holy Spirit, so wherever the Holy Spirit is, there he is with him.

That's why I quoted 2 Corinthians 3, which states that the Lord is the Spirit, a reference to Jesus Christ, the Lord. Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. The Spirit of the Lord dwells in my spirit.

I'm definitely a Trinitarian.

Travis

 

[RJ]

They are both God, but they are NOT both Jesus. Jesus is the not the Father, the Father is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not Jesus.
I do NOT see them as the same at all. They have different roles.

Where is Jesus?

Luke 22:69; "But from now on THE SON OF MAN WILL BE SEATED AT THE RIGHT HAND of the power OF GOD."
Eph 1:20; which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
Col 3:1; Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Did Jesus say he was going to stay here on the earth? Or did he say he was going to send the Holy Spirit?

John 16:7; "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
Acts 1:11; They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven."

B-A-C, you can't use carnal thinking or logic to discern spiritual matters.

• In Galatians 4:6, God himself says he will give us the sons spirit to live in us....you don't believe the "son's spirit" is the same as the Holy Spirit?
• In John 15:26, does not Jesus say he will send the Holy Spiritn to us?
• So who lives in you ? God says the son's spirit and Jesus says the holy Spirit...which is it or, are they the same?
• 2 Corinthians 3:17....God will give you the spirit of the son; here in 2 COR, we see that the Lord is "The Spirit"....who is "The Spirit"?
• In your use of John 16:7 above you qoute " I will send Him to you". Who is him?....didn't God above in Galatians just say that "Him" was the spirit of the son? Jesus is the Holy Spirit and Jesus is God. Yes they are different but at the same time they are the same. Jesus was very Man and very God, how do you explain that...You can't, no more than you can explain the immaculate conception or the resurrection and how they work.

 

[B-A-C]

You can't, no more than you can explain the immaculate conception or the resurrection and how they work.

To Roman Catholics... the immaculate conception was the birth of Mary. However I suspect you mean the birth of Jesus, if so, I agree with you.

 

[RJ]

To Roman Catholics... the immaculate conception was the birth of Mary. However I suspect you mean the birth of Jesus, if so, I agree with you.

Unfortunately we just can't seem to get on the same page about many things and this seems to be no different.
NO, you defined immaculate conception for what it was and, like the other miracles I mentioned like Jesus was very man and very God, I was not asking what it was, I was asking how do they happen. Again, I beleive in the Trinity, all different yet all the same God and it is just another of God's miracles, defined yes but explained no.
All I was saying is that the Trinity can not be explained ( how did it came to be?) any more than we can explain the other miracles. Just like God is the "I Am", these miracles just are and we can only take them on faith.

 

[Travis]

Unfortunately we just can't seem to get on the same page about many things and this seems to be no different.
NO, you defined immaculate conception for what it was and, like the other miracles I mentioned like Jesus was very man and very God, I was not asking what it was, I was asking how do they happen. Again, I beleive in the Trinity, all different yet all the same God and it is just another of God's miracles, defined yes but explained no.
All I was saying is that the Trinity can not be explained ( how did it came to be?) any more than we can explain the other miracles. Just like God is the "I Am", these miracles just are and we can only take them on faith.

RJ, he is agreeing with you.

According to Wikipedia:

The Immaculate Conception, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, was the conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary in her mother's womb free from Original Sin.​

He was just pointing out that you used a Roman Catholic term on accident.

Travis

 

[RJ]

RJ, he is agreeing with you.

According to Wikipedia:

The Immaculate Conception, according to the teaching of the Catholic Church, was the conception of the Blessed Virgin Mary in her mother's womb free from Original Sin.​

He was just pointing out that you used a Roman Catholic term on accident.

Travis

O.K. Travis, I love you both but you too just are not getting it! Go back and look at my previous posts.
Maybe it is my fault, let me try again.

• This, like any of God's miracles, like the trinity can be defined but not explained.
• I am not concerned with any R.C. term.
• You just re-iterated what the immaculate conception was.
• I am not asking to what it is by "anyones" term, Like you, I know what it is !
• I am trying to make a point about all of God's miracles; what I am asking is how did it happen...spiritual/ physiologically, what where the mechanics behind it....how did the Holy Spirit put the genetic information into the Mary's egg to form the the zygote?
• The point is none of God's miracles can not be explained how they happened, we just take them on faith.
• No matter how well you know or use scripture, some things can only be understood by faith, the gift of God.

 

[Travis]

O.K. Travis, I love you both but you too just are not getting it! Go back and look at my previous posts.
Maybe it is my fault, let me try again.

• This, like any of God's miracles, like the trinity can be defined but not explained.
• I am not concerned with any R.C. term.
• You just re-iterated what the immaculate conception was.
• I am not asking to what it is by "anyones" term, Like you, I know what it is !
• I am trying to make a point about all of God's miracles; what I am asking is how did it happen...spiritual/ physiologically, what where the mechanics behind it....how did the Holy Spirit put the genetic information into the Mary's egg to form the the zygote?
• The point is none of God's miracles can be explained how they happened, we just take them on faith.

Hey again RJ,

I'm not mad at you. I think you are a pretty decent guy.

I don't think you read my post closely enough though. The immaculate Conception is not a reference to Jesus's birth, but Mary's birth, as in when Mary herself was born. When someone says "immaculate conception," they are referring to Mary's mother giving birth to her, Mary, and Mary being without sin.

I think instead of saying "the immaculate conception," you meant to say, "the virgin birth," a reference to the Holy Spirit causing Mary to become pregnant with our Lord, Jesus.

I agree that this (the virgin birth) is a miracle, and I don't have a good explanation for it. The Immaculate Conception was not a miracle, because it did not happen, it's a Roman Catholic lie.

Peace,

Travis

 

[RJ]

Hey again RJ,

I'm not mad at you. I think you are a pretty decent guy.

I don't think you read my post closely enough though. The immaculate Conception is not a reference to Jesus's birth, but Mary's birth, as in when Mary herself was born. When someone says "immaculate conception," they are referring to Mary's mother giving birth to her, Mary, and Mary being without sin.

I think instead of saying "the immaculate conception," you meant to say, "the virgin birth," a reference to the Holy Spirit causing Mary to become pregnant with our Lord, Jesus.

I agree that this (the virgin birth) is a miracle, and I don't have a good explanation for it. The Immaculate Conception was not a miracle, because it did not happen, it's a Roman Catholic lie.

Peace,

Travis

Conception and birth are two different things! I am not refering to the R.C. interpretation of Immaculate Conception, I know that definition; I have no problem with Mary herself being concieved with out sin. I can see on one hand what I said was confusing but it still should not effect the point I was trying to make.

No, I didn't mean Virgin Birth and those are your words, I meant exactly, conception.There is not an argument between Immaculate conception and virgin birth, that is not the point. My discussion was based on how Mary concieved, a miracle, like all miracles, can not be explained.

• Well, first of all, not mad , never said I was and you're pretty decent yourself!
• Secondly, this discussion was meant for B-A-C and now my original point has been totally lost!
• B.T.W. , to be sure, I was actually talking about Mary's actual moment of conception and not Jesus birth. If you want to "pick hairs" or be precise, other than being virgin, the conception was the miracle; the actual birth was most probably just as normal as any other birth!

 

[Travis]

Conception and birth are two different things! I am not refering to the R.C. interpretation of Immaculate Conception, I know that definition; I have no problem with Mary herself being concieved with out sin. I can see on one hand what I said was confusing but it still should not effect the point I was trying to make.

No, I didn't mean Virgin Birth and those are your words, I meant exactly, conception.There is not an argument between Immaculate conception and virgin birth, that is not the point. My discussion was based on how Mary concieved, a miracle, like all miracles, can not be explained.

• Well, first of all, not mad , never said I was and you're pretty decent yourself!
• Secondly, this discussion was meant for B-A-C and now my original point has been totally lost!
• B.T.W. , to be sure, I was actually talking about Mary's actual moment of conception and not Jesus birth. If you want to "pick hairs" or be precise, other than being virgin, the conception was the miracle; the actual birth was most probably just as normal as any other birth!

Oh, Ok,

Well, I'm glad we cleared that one up.

Travis

 

[RJ]

Oh, Ok,

Well, I'm glad we cleared that one up.

Travis

It's nice to agree.:smiley: