Once Saved Always Saved

[NeedHimForever]

Woops, posted in the wrong area, and since then I've found a few threads about this topic that search didn't turn up. (or I searched wrong) please remove, already reported. Sorry.


OSAS bothers me. Deep inside me I feel that it just isn't right. Sorry for the poor sentence structure. It's on purpose.

Example. Age 20. Accept Jesus, get Baptized, atend church, study Bible, obey god's commandments to a T. A beacon for Christ.

Age 22, backslide, do drugs, drink heavily, swear, never read Bible, horrible example to others.
Let's say this goes on for 10 years and you die.

Where do you go? heaven or hell?
From this forum, other forums, and many prominent teachers, it would seem that you can't unsave yourself. How can this possibly make any sense? I guess you can have your cake and eat it too. Get saved, and then enjoy the sinful pleasures of the world. Can someone please tell me what I'm missing?

 

[Boanerges]

Just some random thoughts on the subject:

Those He foreknows He predestines (Romans 8:29-30). God knows all our hearts and if we truly want eternity with Him He will move heaven and earth to bring us to His side.

One can fall but not be lost as Christ came to seek and save the lost and the Father is always waiting at the roadside ring and robe in hand.
Dan 11:35And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, evento the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

Read the parables of the Sower and the seed. Many like what they hear but only those who truly love Him bear much fruit and are His.
Read the parables of the Wheat and the Tares. They may grow up in the same field consuming the same nutrients but the Tares will never be wheat. Wheat produces fruit and bows down in humility. Tares bear fruit and stand upright in personal pride.
There are several scriptures that tell us we can know we are saved and we have entered into life ( 1Jn 3:14,1Jn 5:11-13)
1 John 2:19 defines it best:
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Personally I know deep down that I am His and I will never be lost for I have His promise.
One cannot save himself but one can certainly be saved by a Holy God whom that one has absolute faith in.
As far as the tares, as far as the seed on stoney or weed choked ground; these never really wanted anything more than the benfits of knowing Him.
It is after all about the heart my friend.

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

No external force can seperate us from our Lord. That leaves only ourselves to surrender our hearts.
Do you really want to be with Him?
If so then there is nothing that can wrest you from His hand.


As I said, just some random thoughts to ponder.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

:coocoo:

From this forum, other forums, and many prominent teachers, it would seem that you can't unsave yourself. How can this possibly make any sense?

Here's my take on OSAS: I believe that only God knows with certainty who's names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life and He's not releasing that information to the general public. I came to Christ in 1983 and have been following Him to the best of my ability ever since, but I strive to sit at The Master's Feet every day because I still have the capability of being stupid and drifting back toward the world.

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

 

[cman77]

Example. Age 20. Accept Jesus, get Baptized, atend church, study Bible, obey god's commandments to a T. A beacon for Christ. Age 22, backslide, do drugs, drink heavily, swear, never read Bible, horrible example to others. Let's say this goes on for 10 years and you die.

my belief is that god would never let this happen to his own people. why would a loving god let one of his own drift away into darkness? we call him the Good Shepherd, and a shepherd watches over his flock. Christ is a perfect shepherd who never loses a sheep. occasionally we may fall into sin, but we know one is a sheep because the shepherd will come and get him and bring him back into the fold. in the scenario above the person would most certainly go to hell anyone who falls away and stays in their sin is not a child of god and there has no place in the kingdom. it is not possible to be saved and then fall away. if somebody we thought be a Christian falls away we know that they were never a true follower. a person who is truly converted is Born Again and given new life in Christ. they are a new creation that will do the will of the father and not fall away

 

[NeedHimForever]

I don't like quoting Paul much because he tends to contradict Jesus' teachings, (Jesus teaching faith+works, and we know Paul doesn't) but I'll start off with him.

1 Cor 15:1-2: "Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain."

(Hold firmly to the word= Obey God = Jesus said to Love God, and Love your neighbor. How is your neighbor supposed to feel that love?
Mt 25:36 I was Naked, and you clothed me: I was sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me.

It seems to me like just believing in Christ and keeping it to yourself doesn't amount to much. What Jesus lists above are works. I'm not going to argue that without works you are damned, but who is it going to hurt to do these works for the glory of God? It gives wonderful preaching opportunities because people are not used to kindness.

Moving on:

Mt 7:21-23 says: "Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to then, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers'."

You can not prophesy without the Holy Spirit inside, and Him being insde = SAVED. Not as black on white as many think.


2 Peter 2:20-22: "If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: ‘A dog returns to its vomit," and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.’"

An example that one can loose his/her salvation is King Saul. He was chosen by God to be the first king of Israel. He was filled with God's Spirit at first (1 Samuel 10 6), but because of his pride and evil actions, never repenting from what he did wrong, eventually God's Spirit departed from him 1 Sam 16:14 "Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul…" King Saul had been saved, but he lost his salvation due to his unrepentant heart.

We have free will. As much as God wants us all for himself, we can turn our backs on him, and there are consequences.

Once saved always saved is a cheery bubble gum lollipop, feel good message, but that doesn't mean it's true.

 

[Boanerges]

don't like quoting Paul much because he tends to contradict Jesus' teachings, (Jesus teaching faith+works, and we know Paul doesn't) but I'll start off with him.

That is a common misconception. Paul and Jesus are not contradicting each other. True faith always produces works.
The Lord knew we would get confused on this issue so He put it in balck and white for us: Personally, I am saved to the bone and will not be lost from His hand.
Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Tit 3:8This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.


Personally, I am saved to the bone and will not be lost from His hand.
1Jn 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Christ has become my righteousness. Wether I be a babe in Christ or the greatest Apostle I have but one leg to stand on and that the shed blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Boanerges]

I don't like quoting Paul much because he tends to contradict Jesus' teachings

Also one must remember these facts:
Jesus preached to men of the Old Covenant, the servants, the Jews and the lost. He lived as a practicing Jew to fulfill the Law.
The Church was not even born until the Book of Acts.
To leave out the Pauline Epistles is to miss out on the bulk of the Holy Spirit's revelation to the church (men of the New Covenant, sons of God). This leaves one with improper doctrine and improper order in the Church plus it causes one to completely miss the heart of God revealed in those love letters to the church.

 

[shipwrecksoul]

Once saved....

Once saved always saved lets find out.
Hey lets go right now in a time machine and go back lets say 10 years after Jesus was crucified and lets go to where Peter lives, Jesus disciple, and ask him,
"Hey Peter how many times can a person do drugs drink heavy etc etc and ask for forgiveness even though they had turned away, like yourself while being with the Lord, are they lost even though they had been born again from above, even though the the comforter is in them, even though Jesus said he would never disown them?"
I bet anyone here would know EXACTLY what Peter would say!

Thank you NeedHimForever for posting this thread.

 

[ushalk]

god is merciful but the bible states that he is not mocked. the bible also states that if we feed the flesh then we reap of the flesh which is unto death. however if we repent and truly turn away from it then we restore our relationship with the lord. however we cant keep doing this and expecting god to forgive us and acting as though we are worthy of it. we are worthy of nothing nor is it owed to us. so if we are only mocking god then at what point is he going to quit dealing with us. the problem with the once saved always saved gospel is that it never teaches true repentance but it teaches us that we can live in sin and go to heaven.

 

[NeedHimForever]

god is merciful but the bible states that he is not mocked. the bible also states that if we feed the flesh then we reap of the flesh which is unto death. however if we repent and truly turn away from it then we restore our relationship with the lord. however we cant keep doing this and expecting god to forgive us and acting as though we are worthy of it. we are worthy of nothing nor is it owed to us. so if we are only mocking god then at what point is he going to quit dealing with us. the problem with the once saved always saved gospel is that it never teaches true repentance but it teaches us that we can live in sin and go to heaven.

I agree 100% God is not your lap dog to run to your feet when you finally decide you don't want to sin anymore, only to commit the same sins next week. Who is the boss here? Man or God?

 

[shipwrecksoul]

1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

 

[Boanerges]

Exactly shipwrecksoul! :shade:

Those in Christ are not judged like the world. A Christian's works can be burned and he may have nothing to lay at the feet of his Master yet he will be saved. Our sins were judged in Christ.
This fire of God will burn all works not done at the leading of and in the power of the Holy Spirit.Those works are the works of the flesh and are wood, hay and stubble.
Lost souls will be judged in their sins. That is a place I will not have to stand for Jesus Christ Himself has become my righteousness.

BTW, though we may stumble I have not met a person who really understands the grace of God (the children of the promise)that wishes to live a sinful lifestyle.
Those who do not understand the grace of God will always resent and even persecute the ones that do.
It is only when God completely breaks them of all self reliance, self righteousness and fleshly effort that they can freely enter His rest.
Those that are free walk in the Spirit, at His lead and power just as Christ did.

 

[stephen]

JOhn 3:16 Acts 2:38. The Roman way........what ever way you came to Jesus. You......we are saved.....just as long as we stay saved.


Many have come the ways listed above......but fall away.


All men are saved by the blood of Jesus......but are saved just as long as we stay saved.....

 

[Boanerges]

We will probably not all agree on this till Christ comes. This like many other topic has been hotly debated for 2,000 years.

That being said the Holy Spirit spoke through John and said those that went out from us were never really of us.
These are the "Lord didn't I folks" who like to make their religious flesh happy but never knew God.

 

[shipwrecksoul]

The living God!

 

[ushalk]

that is a great question. who is the boss more than that who really needs who hear? who has the power hear?

 

[Boanerges]

that is a great question. who is the boss more than that who really needs who hear? who has the power hear?

Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 

[SpiritLedEd]

I don't like quoting Paul much because he tends to contradict Jesus' teachings, (Jesus teaching faith+works, and we know Paul doesn't)

Paul doesn't contradict Jesus. Eph 2:10 NIV says, "For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Consider also Php 2:4 NIV: "Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others." Also, 1 Thess 4:15b NIV:" but always be kind to each other and to everyone else."

While the word works may not appear often in his writings, Paul's letters are shot through with exhortations for believers to do good to others.

SLE

 

[shipwrecksoul]

Amen to spiritleded reply through the Spirits power in us!

 

[Coconut]

Originally Posted by NeedHimForever
I don't like quoting Paul much because he tends to contradict Jesus' teachings

Also one must remember these facts:
Jesus preached to men of the Old Covenant, the servants, the Jews and the lost. He lived as a practicing Jew to fulfill the Law.
The Church was not even born until the Book of Acts.
To leave out the Pauline Epistles is to miss out on the bulk of the Holy Spirit's revelation to the church (men of the New Covenant, sons of God). This leaves one with improper doctrine and improper order in the Church plus it causes one to completely miss the heart of God revealed in those love letters to the church.

Agreed, Paul, an Apostle chosen by GOD, and a self proclaimed bond servant of Jesus Christ, would not have misrepresented his Master in the slightest word or deed. If we think he has, then it has to be we who have confused his intents and purpose, not Paul.