Once saved can we lose our salvation??

[spirit1st]

Rom_5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Joh_8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Gal_2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Gal_5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

2Pe_2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

I live in perfect freedom i am not bound by anything but faith and love! I do what i do to please my LORD!

I serve Him because i love serving him1 I bless others because i love mankind and know it My Lords perfect will to bless others!

I know My Lord has a perfect will and permissive will !I try my best to be in his perfect will as much as i can?

 

[Stickz]

II Peter 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. If you are overcome by sin, you do not have Christ. You are in bondage to sin and not free in Christ. Whether you want to believe that you can lose your salvation, or that you were never saved to begin with, the outcome is the same in the end: You are not saved, nor will you be saved in that day.

II Peter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. "Someone who has escaped the world through Christ" is referring to someone who has been "saved" before, and if they are again entangled in the world they are overcome and their state at that point will be worse for them than it was before they had gone to Christ. Remember the story about demons returning to a swept house ( Luke 11:24-26 )?

II Peter 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

II Peter 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. And these proverbs speak for themselves: Notice that the sow didn't just touch ( taste of ) the water and turn away from it, but was washed and returned again to the mud. And the dog's stomach rejected the food the first time, but it takes an unclean cur to eat again what was previously vomited up. When we go to Jesus to save us from our sin, we are just like this dog and pig when we turn back to our sins. Jesus came to save us from our sins, not to cover us in some fashion so that God can't see us while we continue to sin.

 

[RJ]

Good job, brakelite.

Wonderful answers. And you didn't have to misquote scripture to make your points clear, brakelite. Always a pleasure to read your posts. It'll be interesting to see how he responds to all that truth.

So, I am now refered in the third person vernacular? Well, here is "His" (lol) response to truth!

Let's go back to the begining:
It is not your works !

Please, would you or brakelite give your interpretation of "not of yourselves" and "not of works" in this following and famous verse. :

Ephesians 2

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[spirit1st]

The called can fall away , Many do! The elect do not! He keeps his own children!
Eternal life means eternal life !
Many are called few chosen !

 

[RJ]

The called can fall away , Many do! The elect do not! He keeps his own children!
Eternal life means eternal life !
Many are called few chosen !

Yes, I think Jesus stands at the door of many and knocks but, few open the door! Look at the below verse and the word "if".

Revelation 3:20
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.

 

[spirit1st]

Few accept the Free Gift! Because Few Will allow HIM to be Ruler of there lives and All they have !
He cannot be Less than LORD OF ALL!


He wants nothing we have!He just wants to Have power over all! All He Loves us more than we Love ourselves !
He is creator !

Every Father should be over there household1
Just as our Father GOD is over His household1

 

[Stickz]

What is the point in the devil tempting someone who is saved and that cannot possibly lose their salvation?

 

[RJ]

What is the point in the devil tempting someone who is saved and that cannot possibly lose their salvation?

That is the point of this verse:

1 Corinthians 15:55
“Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?”

The point is, there is no point in the devil tempting a saved person.
Poor devil!

By the way you haven't answerd my question yet?

Please, would you or brakelite give your interpretation of "not of yourselves" and "not of works" in this following and famous verse. :

Ephesians 2

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[Stickz]

RJ: By the way you haven't answerd my question yet?

Please, would you or brakelite give your interpretation of "not of yourselves" and "not of works" in this following and famous verse. :

Ephesians 2

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Do we have to accept what Christ did for us? The answer is yes, right? So, without my doing the accepting, I can't be saved, right? Can we save ourselves? No. Do we play a part in our salvation? Yes.

We are not saved because of our works, but without them we are not saved. A tree that bears no good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire. Jesus said, Pick up your cross and follow me; He didn't say, pick up your cross and hop on my back and I'll do all the walking for us both.

RJ: The point is, there is no point in the devil tempting a saved person.
Poor devil!

Does everyone agree with RJ on this?

 

[brakelite]

So, I am now refered in the third person vernacular? Well, here is "His" (lol) response to truth!

Let's go back to the begining:
It is not your works !

RJ, you don't quite get it do you. I didn't say that anyone is saved by their works. We are saved by the shed blood of Jesus. It is His sacrifice on Calvary, His grace and mercy, and that only, that justifies us.

Please, would you or brakelite give your interpretation of "not of yourselves" and "not of works" in this following and famous verse. :

Ephesians 2

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I have no argument with the above verse. We cannot offer our own works to God as a means of getting saved. There is nothing we can do to impress God, to placate His wrath and judgement for sin, to atone for our unrighteousness. Nothing.It is solely the grace and mercy of a loving forgiving Saviour who gave Himself for us. Is that clear enough?

The above statement however does not mitigate against anything I have said previously. While we are justified by the blood of Christ, that is only half the story. Christ's righteousness is imputed to us through justification. We are accounted righteous and our names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life. Yay! Sanctification however is Christ's righteousness imparted to us. Thus again, by His grace, we are empowered to obey His commandments. And our motivation for doing so and making ourselves as malleable clay in the Potters hands is love, not in order to be saved! God's requirements are not less demanding for the Christian today than they were for Adam and Eve in the garden. And we as Christians are happy to obey because we love Him so much. Hence Jesus words "if ye love Me keep My commandments". And as John said, "His commandments are not grievous". Dare anyone suggest that obedience and sanctification isn't essential to our ultimate destiny?
Think about this. If Adam and Eve, being perfect, were turfed out of the garden for disobedience, how much more would we sinners be kept out of the garden if clinging still to our disobedience?

Grace and law are not against one another, they compliment one another. The law was never intended to save, but to point out sin. Grace saves. There is nothing wrong with the laws of God, they are holy and good. The problem occurs when it is used as a means to salvation. The law can never be opposed to grace for both grace and law operate in two different and distinct areas with different purposes.

Our problem here is not the commandments of the law versus the commandments free life of grace, for the truth is that grace has its commandments too. Why does one obey the law? Out of fear! Why does one obey the commandments of grace? Out of love!!! There lies the difference. Motivation. The commandments are the same in each case, the motive alone differs.
When we were unsaved the law was our enemy, because we had no desire to obey. Now however we are saved the law is our friend because we delight to obey our Creator and Lord because we love Him. He asks us to obey and we say 'absolutely!'
Now, as a believer in Christ and having the power to stand before the throne of God clothed in Christ's righteousness, and when we read the law it becomes a request from our dearest friend and Father and we want nothing more than to please Him...in fact our obedience becomes our greatest pleasure...and thus, unconsciously even we discover we are keeping God's commandments to the letter.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Jesus did not come just to die that we might be forgiven. He did not just come to save us from condemnation. He came also to be resurrected and empower us to live holy lives. To be saved not just from the effects of sin, but from sin itself! Praise God!

Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

What is the point in the devil tempting someone who is saved and that cannot possibly lose their salvation?

An empowered Christian is the threat.They run around spreading joy,love and a mindset that has been freed from fear.
We are the eternal fire that he fears.

There sure is much valid scripture to support both sides of this discussion.
So much I can't support or deny either.
This verse could be used by either position or it could show that both positions are in error.
1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

It says we are as he is,now in this world while we are pumping blood.
There will be a Judgement that we can boldly stand in because God in us perfected love.

Question to both sides:
If we are as he is then does he still have to worry about losing his salvation?
I'm not serious,I just want to lighten things up a bit.
Because it seems like we are discussing the right and left leg of the same animal.

 

[Stickz]

Sorry, Thiscrosshurts, I must have missed your point. Are you trying to say that the devil tempts us to keep us from spreading peace, love, and joy to others?

You added to your post after I posted.

Thiscrosshurts: It says we are as he is,now in this world while we are pumping blood.
There will be a Judgement that we can boldly stand in because God in us perfected love.

Question to both sides:
If we are as he is then does he still have to worry about losing his salvation?

Nice point, but He is also without sin, can walk on water and raise people from the dead.

 

[RJ]

Do we have to accept what Christ did for us? The answer is yes, right? So, without my doing the accepting, I can't be saved, right? Can we save ourselves? No. Do we play a part in our salvation? Yes.

We are not saved because of our works, but without them we are not saved. A tree that bears no good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire. Jesus said, Pick up your cross and follow me; He didn't say, pick up your cross and hop on my back and I'll do all the walking for us both.



Does everyone agree with RJ on this?

I understand how you feel and I know how much you want to please God; so do I!

Yes you play a part, your free will to choose. If you want to call this spiritual (non-flesh) action works, then I see the confusion.

If you believe what the Bible says that is by grace that you are saved, through faith, Then understand that it is still by this grace that you have faith.

Romans 12:3
For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.

God gives you your faith, so where is your works? Faith is part of God's Grace to us.


So, you still skirt around the verse that I ask you to explain..."It is not of your works". Please explain what this means.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Sorry, Thiscrosshurts, I must have missed your point. Are you trying to say that the devil tempts us to keep us from spreading peace, love, and joy to others?

You added to your post after I posted.

I type slow so I added more after that,then saw your post.

Well if I were in his position I would keep a believer from...well,believing... Jesus said the things he did we would do.That would be my target.To make sure that doesn't happen.

Peace,love and joy is a fire that gets on people,many times they initially run from it but its just to awesome to permanently walk away from.
Some day joyful Christians might get together and agree on something and learn about their corporate(body of Christ) authority.Then the cat would be out of the bag.It's not easy to get a cat in a bag to begin with you know.

Nice point, but He is also without sin, can walk on water and raise people from the dead.

As he is ,so are we,without sin if you can believe it.
We are called to be like him,really I'm not making this up.
I can't walk on water yet...yet... I'll know I got right when I do.
Of course the word of God is water and so when your walking on his word you are walking on water.Once the transformation is complete it probably would manifest in the world.

Raising people from the dead is the works his Father sent him to do and we are to do likewise.
We can bring light to those in darkness and that is like calling unto the spiritually dead to come forth into light and life.

 

[Donnie Ducati]

The doctrine of unconditional eternal security accepts the Calvinist perspective and states that once a person has been saved and accepts the atoning Blood of Jesus Christ, he can never be lost afterward, no matter what he might do.

The question to ask is whether a Born-Again Christian can cease being a Born-Again Christian. The answer to this question is, yes, a Believer can stop believing, a Christian can stop being a Christian, and the Born-Again can turn his back on Salvation and become lost-again. Even superficial reading of the Bible will reveal any number of personalities who were at one time within the Grace of God, but who subsequently fell from Grace. After their fall from Grace, these individuals became lost (Ezek. 28:12-19; Mat. 25:41; Gen. 1:26-31; Lk. 3:38; Lev. 10:1-2).

The Bible clearly states that we are saved by Grace through Faith (Eph. 2:8). We are further told that the just shall live by Faith (Heb. 10:38). Salvation is given to the Believer, not by works or by acts of righteousness, but as a gift through the act of Faith. It is, of course, maintained in exactly the same way.

 

[RJ]

The doctrine of unconditional eternal security accepts the Calvinist perspective and states that once a person has been saved and accepts the atoning Blood of Jesus Christ, he can never be lost afterward, no matter what he might do.

The question to ask is whether a Born-Again Christian can cease being a Born-Again Christian. The answer to this question is, yes, a Believer can stop believing, a Christian can stop being a Christian, and the Born-Again can turn his back on Salvation and become lost-again. Even superficial reading of the Bible will reveal any number of personalities who were at one time within the Grace of God, but who subsequently fell from Grace. After their fall from Grace, these individuals became lost (Ezek. 28:12-19; Mat. 25:41; Gen. 1:26-31; Lk. 3:38; Lev. 10:1-2).

The Bible clearly states that we are saved by Grace through Faith (Eph. 2:8). We are further told that the just shall live by Faith (Heb. 10:38). Salvation is given to the Believer, not by works or by acts of righteousness, but as a gift through the act of Faith. It is, of course, maintained in exactly the same way.

The doctrine of unconditional eternal security accepts the Calvinist perspective and states that once a person has been saved and accepts the atoning Blood of Jesus Christ, he can never be lost afterward, no matter what he might do.

That is totally inaccurate and just not fair to a person who beleives in Eternal Security.
"no matter what he might do." No true believer and a person who beleives in Eternal Security believes that and I just wish that people would stop bringing up this false statement!

The truth of the matter: A person who believes that you can just do anything, they are not saved in the first place.

 

[spirit1st]

satan hates GOD! he tries his evil best to get us to do evil! Thinking it makes GOD look bad to all of heaven! when God is going to share His throne with us! satan wants to hurt us any way he can?
he tries to get mankind to hurt and even kill other people!
satan knows he can not hurt GOD directly! So he attacks those GOD LOVES , mankind! plus he tries to keep us from walking in GODS power! he saw what took place, at the true churches beginning! how they walked in the LORDS power and almost conquered the entire world! So many getting salvation and healing s and prospering!

The true church is the most power beings on earth. They have the power of god within them . The spirit of GOD! That is why he has got into our churches !most not understanding the scriptures and being so divided!

Many praying prayers against each other !Going in different ways?

Listen that is one of the reasons ,God is going to catch us away!
It will become very clear in the great tribulation! the true church would unite and the anti-christ could not be in control ! That not the main reason i guess?

Mat_16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The church at it beginning knew more than us spiritually! they walked much more in our LORDS Power !

Listen i been cussed banned , called everything for some of my testimonies and i am not even close to walking in the power and understanding most of those holy brothers and sisters did!

I wish my Father could use me in a more perfect way!

I know walking and living More though our Spirit is the way we can hear Him more and serve Him much better!

The true unseen church has not changed!It the teaching of changed !Causing the true church to appear weak , when in fact it very powerful!

satan main goal is to keep mankind from the truth!
It the Truth that sets us FREE!

2Th_2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


1Co_13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;


Joh_14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Joh_8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Joh_4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


Joh_4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Hos_4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge,

it takes time to grow in Truth and the correct understanding

 

[Stickz]

RJ, I haven't "skirted" around your question. I've actually answered it many times before in other posts. You must not understand my answer, which is understandable because I have a difficult time understanding some of your answers even though they apparently make enough sense to you.

You seem to agree that someone who has truly been "saved" will also bear fruits and have works, but the works and fruits are such that you have yet have nothing to do with producing them. I believe that I have something to do with those works and fruits—I can allow them or not.

Our relationship with Christ is sometimes described as being like a marriage, and in a marriage both participants have their jobs to do.

Paul will not be saved because of what he went through to provide so many people with the gospel, but he had to endure everything to continue in God's grace so that he would be saved. Without the grace of God no one could be saved at all, but with the grace of God we are able to keep His commandments and live righteously before Him.

There are too many verses in the New Testament alone that imply that we have to do things, or not do things. If in becoming a Christian we were to be freed from all responsibility to our own salvation, the New Testament could have been much shorter.

Even Paul preached about self-control. I know that many see Romans 7 as Paul admitting that he had lots of trouble with sinning, but I disagree. Paul was talking about his flesh in that chapter, but he goes on in Romans 8 to tell us that we are to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh.

You have said to me, RJ, that we don't read the same Bible, but that isn't it. The problem is that we do, in fact, read the same book and interpret it an entirely different way. I think that it would be a safer bet to say that we do not have the same God. One of us is very wrong, and until one of us can provide proof of our belief beyond providing scripture, it looks like we are stuck waiting to find out who it is.

Donnie Ducati, because of some of your previous posts I thought you to be one that believed in Once Saved, Always Saved. Now I'm not sure ...?

 

[RJ]

RJ, I haven't "skirted" around your question. I've actually answered it many times before in other posts. You must not understand my answer, which is understandable because I have a difficult time understanding some of your answers even though they apparently make enough sense to you.

You seem to agree that someone who has truly been "saved" will also bear fruits and have works, but the works and fruits are such that you have yet have nothing to do with producing them. I believe that I have something to do with those works and fruits—I can allow them or not.

Our relationship with Christ is sometimes described as being like a marriage, and in a marriage both participants have their jobs to do.

Paul will not be saved because of what he went through to provide so many people with the gospel, but he had to endure everything to continue in God's grace so that he would be saved. Without the grace of God no one could be saved at all, but with the grace of God we are able to keep His commandments and live righteously before Him.

There are too many verses in the New Testament alone that imply that we have to do things, or not do things. If in becoming a Christian we were to be freed from all responsibility to our own salvation, the New Testament could have been much shorter.

Even Paul preached about self-control. I know that many see Romans 7 as Paul admitting that he had lots of trouble with sinning, but I disagree. Paul was talking about his flesh in that chapter, but he goes on in Romans 8 to tell us that we are to walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh.

You have said to me, RJ, that we don't read the same Bible, but that isn't it. The problem is that we do, in fact, read the same book and interpret it an entirely different way. I think that it would be a safer bet to say that we do not have the same God. One of us is very wrong, and until one of us can provide proof of our belief beyond providing scripture, it looks like we are stuck waiting to find out who it is.

Donnie Ducati, because of some of your previous posts I thought you to be one that believed in Once Saved, Always Saved. Now I'm not sure ...?

Please, would you or brakelite give your interpretation of "not of yourselves" and "not of works" in this following and famous verse. :

Ephesians 2

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Stickz,

• I am sorry to go back to the above verse and my question but, I still do not see you addressing it directly. You either believe the above or you don't, please which is it? Is it of yourselves and your works or is it not.

Let me present this in another way:

• You are saved by grace through faith.
• It is God's grace and he calls it a gift.
• It is God who gives each of us our own measure of faith, your faith does not come from you.
• It is in this order: Jesus's death , burial and resurrection.
• The cross and Jesus's death forgives sins.
• The resurrection of Jesus Christ gives life and our salvation.
• So the cross, death, resurrection and eternal life are all God's gift to us and called grace. Thus far and, at no time, during this process was it of ourselves or our works.
• Salavtion begins now, in the present. The Bible says that we died to our sins because of the cross and we have been resurrected with Christ now.
• It is another one of God's mysteries but the works, deeds, actions, fruits, what ever we can call it, that comes after salvation and God in us, is not of ourselves and not our works.

This is my understanding:

As a "Born Again " Christian it is important to acknowledge that all good things come from above and that all good things produced through us should be credited to God only and not of ourselves or our works.
We must avoid the urge to say that we must do things to please God or show our faith; it is best to say and live that it is all of him and none of us!

It saddens me that you think we do not have the same God! Mine is stiil the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob!

God Bless

 

[spirit1st]

Salvation is a Perfect gift!
Jas_1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

1Pe_1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,


You must understand , salvation is a new spirit that cannot sin! It has His type mind and nature at it birth!

This for told of salvation!

Eze_11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Eze_36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.


new man is our new spirit! as well as the new creature ,inner man ,inward man, hidden man


2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Gal_6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.


Eph_3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;


Eph_2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph_4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.


Col_3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:


1Pe_3:4 But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.


Rom_7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
2Co_4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.



1Pe_1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


1Jn_3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


1Jn_5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


Heb_12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?



Joh_3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh_3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
1Pe_1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


Born -again is Just what it says !A brand new birth!
Rom_8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Gal_6:18 Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit

Phm_1:25 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.

Rom_8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.




2Co_4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.


1Co_15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.