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Once saved can we lose our salvation??

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Donnie you cant take something from old testament and say God judges us the same way like He did them. Also it says in Peters letter that those dead who were disobedient back then heard gospel from Jesus after He went to preach to them.

We shouldnt read bible superficially and say hey this is what can happen to all of us. It must be studied carefully to understand what kinda of standard God has put for each man.

You need to learn about the two coveants God made with man, the old and the new.
Old is covered in old testament , new in new testament.

God bless you

Paul taught saying that what was written down of them in the OT was for our learning, that we be not like them and bring down upon us the wrath of God which never changes. If you do evil you will receive judgment. Israel tempted God in the wilderness and their carcasses fell in the same place. The OT applies unto us as it is the same God whose wrath abides on the children of disobedience.

Paul told Timothy, our brother, that the OT could make him wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. Paul encouraged Timothy to seek the will of God in the OT scriptures.

The old covenant is no longer valid as it is ready to vanish away but it is valid in understanding the character of God and how to live within the confines of his will so that you do not bring chastening upon yourself.

May the mind of God be in you,

Gary
 
The only difference is Grace and Law , were still saved the same way in the Old as is the New.

We can forfeit it just as well as we can accept it.
 
The only difference is Grace and Law , were still saved the same way in the Old as is the New.

We can forfeit it just as well as we can accept it.

Only by grace has anyone ever been saved. Amen. And that through faith. Those who received the law by faith received Gods grace. Those who believed the law made them righteous, that they might have their own righteousness apart from God, received not the grace of God.

When one receives the grace of God, it becomes a part of them. They then give grace unto others. Unless we receive the grace of God in Jesus Christ and admit that we cannot save ourselves, we are doomed. Our faith is then evidenced in our works as we, through the grace given us by God, give unto others freely as we have received.

Gods ways are beautiful and I pray that his grace is shed upon us abundantly that we may then receive it and give it unto others in love, the love of God shed abroad in our hearts.

In Jesus Name,

Gary
 
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The only difference is Grace and Law , were still saved the same way in the Old as is the New.

We can forfeit it just as well as we can accept it.

Jesus told Nicodemus: "You must be born again".

Are you saying above that a true "Born Again" Christian can become un-born?
 
The only difference is Grace and Law , were still saved the same way in the Old as is the New.

We can forfeit it just as well as we can accept it.

This just isnt true. They didnt have Jesus as savior back then. and if you think about it, how does that make OT people look for salvation?

Many believed that just because they kept the law they were ok and saved. And because they were part of israel. For us its entirely different.. dont you agree?

God bless you
 
Paul taught saying that what was written down of them in the OT was for our learning, that we be not like them and bring down upon us the wrath of God which never changes. If you do evil you will receive judgment. Israel tempted God in the wilderness and their carcasses fell in the same place. The OT applies unto us as it is the same God whose wrath abides on the children of disobedience.

Not true, Paul was saying its an ensample 1Co 10:11. When was the last time you saw some christians being swallowed by earth? Or fire coming down from sky and devouring christians? Or people being destroyed by the destroyer?

See God doesnt use same methods against us, He doesnt kill anyone.

Perhaps you were saying something else? Atleast that clears it.

gbu
 
Not true, Paul was saying its an ensample 1Co 10:11. When was the last time you saw some christians being swallowed by earth? Or fire coming down from sky and devouring christians? Or people being destroyed by the destroyer?

See God doesnt use same methods against us, He doesnt kill anyone.

Perhaps you were saying something else? Atleast that clears it.

gbu

Accusing me of being a liar again. Be careful. If in fact the Spirit of God is speaking through me unto you and you claim it is lies, then you are blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Of course God chooses his method to chasten. Just because he doesn't use the exact same one doesn't mean he isn't doing it. I have seen Christians receive much chastening from God in very painful ways. Annanias and Saphira were both killed for lying to the Holy Spirit. I have personally been sent out into the wilderness and chastened of evil spirits for pride and judgmentalism. There have been quite a few so called natural disasters which used to be referred to as acts of God, that have happened, which swallowed up 10's of thousands of people. Nobody wants to think that it is possible that God was judging his creation though.

May God bless you with all wisdom and understanding, that ye may be beneficial to those you choose to serve,

In Jesus Name,

Gary
 
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Accusing me of being a liar again. Be careful. If in fact the Spirit of God is speaking through me unto you and you claim it is lies, then you are blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

I wasnt calling you a liar or anything, just disagreeing in your point of view.

Are you saying that what you say is absolute truth and not subject to an error? And if I dare to say anything against you im speaking against God Him self and His Holy spirit?


Annanias and Saphira were both killed for lying to the Holy Spirit.

they werent christians or born again believers ..
and I havent heard of people being carried out dead from churches in regular intervals.

Natural disasters are different and something all people face on this planet regardless are they christian or not. And i believe God rather saves us from them than sends them to destroy us.


God bless you
 
Accusing me of being a liar again. Be careful. If in fact the Spirit of God is speaking through me unto you and you claim it is lies, then you are blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

gdemoss is sort of crazy. And not in a good way.

I never heard so much STRIFE from anybody on a Christian forum. And that's NOT Godly at all.

I believe gdemoss is not nearly as close to God as he thinks he is.

When someone rebukes you gdemoss they are not blaspheming the Holy Spirit... know why?

Cause YOUR NOT God
 
I wasnt calling you a liar or anything, just disagreeing in your point of view.

You said "Not True" to a statement that I made. Since when does that not mean that somebody is lying? Bearing false witness?

Are you saying that what you say is absolute truth and not subject to an error? And if I dare to say anything against you im speaking against God Him self and His Holy spirit?

I'm saying "if" the Spirit is speaking through me "Then", but if they are merely my imaginations then you have nothing to worry about. If I merely rely on my intellect to decide what the truth is then I am a liar and the truth is not in me.




they werent christians or born again believers ..

You base this statement upon your own thoughts? Or does the word of God say they were not believers? If they didn't believe then how foolish would it be to sell your home and give most of the money away?

and I havent heard of people being carried out dead from churches in regular intervals.

This doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

Natural disasters are different and something all people face on this planet regardless are they christian or not. And i believe God rather saves us from them than sends them to destroy us.

You believe this why? Because you have concluded it on your own, separate from what God has said? Or is there something God has said that will show me that he does this?

Job 9:17
Psa 11:6
Psa 83:15
Is 29:6
Isa 30:30
Jon 1:4
Jon 1:12

Has not God said these things? These are his words. While Jesus had the power to rebuke the wind and the waves of the tempest, his disciple did not. Paul did no such thing when the tempest laid upon them at sea but instead the boat ended up lost. Paul was lost at sea 3 different occasions, once he spent a night and a day in the deep. God has his purposes and his ways are past finding out. Even Job in the end concluded that it was the sovereign God who was allowing him to be tormented, his reply was "though he slay me, I will trust him". That is just what Paul did when he suffered at the hand of God. God said that Paul was to be shown what things he must suffer for him.

It is all Gods work in as much as he is sovereign over all. The potter who molds one lump unto honor and another unto dishonor. I don't question why, I simply ask that he make me a vessel unto honor who can help his purpose be fulfilled what ever it may be.

In the Holy and Blessed Name of Jesus,

Gary
an ambassador for Christ.
 
gdemoss is sort of crazy. And not in a good way.

I never heard so much STRIFE from anybody on a Christian forum. And that's NOT Godly at all.

I believe gdemoss is not nearly as close to God as he thinks he is.

When someone rebukes you gdemoss they are not blaspheming the Holy Spirit... know why?

Cause YOUR NOT God

If you have the Holy Spirit indwelling you TCH, then he can speak through you. Do you not believe that God can speak through you? Was he not speaking though Peter, Paul, Stephen, Phillip and everyone else, who as an ambassador, took his message to the people?

If you don't believe it then how does the breath of God moving a tongue reveal himself? Solely through whirlwinds and angels in burning bushes? Why do you think that he poured out his spirit upon 'all' flesh?

In Jesus Name,

Gary
 
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Hi Gary
You said "Not True" to a statement that I made. Since when does that not mean that somebody is lying? Bearing false witness?

It implies that you were lying? Sorry i'm not native English speaker. My intent was only to say "I disagree and believe your wrong".
Or that "according to my knowledge what you said isn't true."


I'm saying "if" the Spirit is speaking through me "Then", but if they are merely my imaginations then you have nothing to worry about. If I merely rely on my intellect to decide what the truth is then I am a liar and the truth is not in me.

It seems that your warning people of consequences if they speak against truth given by Holy spirit. Considering that we are not perfect in knowledge I think God has already much to forgive us.

So why spread fear that your doing some big sins if we arent careful on what we say?

It is unnessary intimidation as you self said that you dont know if the word was from HS. And even if you did know or believe so why try to intimidate others to believe you?
No one can know whos speaking truth in spirit at all times. And sure they would listen if they knew you would be speaking according to God's will.

You base this statement upon your own thoughts? Or does the word of God say they were not believers? If they didn't believe then how foolish would it be to sell your home and give most of the money away?

Did the word say they were believers? Because they tried to cheat implies that they didnt believe like others did but wanted to be part of it as they saw something big happening.

I hope we understand each other better now. And I also hope we leave judgement to God about the things we write.

God bless you
 
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You believe this why? Because you have concluded it on your own, separate from what God has said? Or is there something God has said that will show me that he does this?

Job 9:17
Psa 11:6
Psa 83:15
Is 29:6
Isa 30:30
Jon 1:4
Jon 1:12

How do these old testament writings show that God would send destroyer in our way?

We live under grace. So I believe God is very merciful to us and certainly doesnt kill us if we do something wrong. He may use discipline but that's a whole another story.
 
How do these old testament writings show that God would send destroyer in our way?

We live under grace. So I believe God is very merciful to us and certainly doesnt kill us if we do something wrong. He may use discipline but that's a whole another story.

The new testament is quite clear, the wrath of God abides on the children of disobedience. I know. You don't agree. hummmm...

My hope is God will reveal himself to you in a big way.
 
If you have the Holy Spirit indwelling you TCH, then he can speak through you. Do you not believe that God can speak through you? Was he not speaking though Peter, Paul, Stephen, Phillip and everyone else, who as an ambassador, took his message to the people?

If you don't believe it then how does the breath of God moving a tongue reveal himself? Solely through whirlwinds and angels in burning bushes? Why do you think that he poured out his spirit upon 'all' flesh?

In Jesus Name,

Gary

Wisdom alone will not help you without the fundamentals. Wisdom that is not tempered in humility will lead to error. Consider Solomon and his end. I have a scripture the LORD wants me to share with you:

Micah 6:8
8 No, O people, the Lord has told you what is good,
and this is what he requires of you:
to do what is right, to love mercy,
and to walk humbly with your God.
 
I would like to state that man still has freewill, even after they've been born again. So, yes, the warnings in the New Testament about falling away are quite clear and consistent.

The parable of the seed sower is a beginning in understanding what happens to people who fall away. There is much more than that, though. I will share what His word says on this tomorrow.
 
Peace be unto you

I am going to answer this question with scripture. Whatever you walk away believing is your choice. You should always seek answers to your questions from the Bible, and never from another person. People can mislead you. If all that you are looking for is reassurance of what you have already decided to believe, then you'll get plenty of that—but that doesn't make it true.


Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Ephesians 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

Ephesians 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

Ephesians 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

I John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

I Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

I Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Will God ever forsake you?

Deuteronomy 4:31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

Deuteronomy 31:6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

Deuteronomy 31:8 And the LORD, he it is that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed.

He told them that He wouldn't.

Deuteronomy 31:16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a ******* after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

Deuteronomy 31:17 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?

Joshua 24:20 If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good.

I Chronicles 28:9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.

I Chronicles 28:20 And David said to Solomon his son, Be strong and of good courage, and do it: fear not, nor be dismayed: for the LORD God, even my God, will be with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee, until thou hast finished all the work for the service of the house of the LORD.

II Chronicles 15:2 And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The LORD is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.

Psalm 27:9 Hide not thy face far from me; put not thy servant away in anger: thou hast been my help; leave me not, neither forsake me, O God of my salvation.

Psalm 119:8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.

A few more verses to think on:

I Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee. ( save thyself? shouldn't Timothy have already been saved? )

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

We've all heard this story:

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Matthew 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Matthew 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Why didn't Jesus just tell this man something like, "If you'll just wait for a little bit longer, all that you'll have to do is 'believe' and you'll receive eternal life?" Why did it seem like Jesus was asking the man to "work" for salvation?

Luke 7:48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

Luke 7:49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?

Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Was this woman "saved" at this point?

Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Luke 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

Was he "saved" at this point? Had this man turned to go home and fell off a cliff and died, would he have gone to Hell because Jesus hadn't died on the cross yet?

Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

"We" is Peter and the Jews that are in Christ, and the word 'shall' is future tense.

Jude 5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

What's Jude's purpose in reminding us about this?

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The above verse is quoted often but the following two never seem to follow it.

Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Galatians 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. ( No big deal to someone who has been saved though, right? )

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Again, these verses could not be referring to the genuinely saved, right? Who has a part in the book of life and the holy city? The believer or the unbeliever?

Romans 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: ( "deeds" and not "faith" )

Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Romans 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Romans 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; ( "doeth evil" and not "is an unbeliever" )

Romans 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Romans 3:20 is commonly quoted, but Romans 2:13 is never.

John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

The following are an interesting set of verses:

Romans 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: ( standest by faith has to be referring to a believer, right? )

Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. ( who shalt be cut off? )

Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

And then a few more:

I Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

I Thessalonians 3:8 For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord.

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Hebrews 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Take care,
Read and Pray often







Sticks, it's funny you're posted this back in September. The LORD led me go through the entire New Testament last September, and note many of these very verses in order to understand God's doctrine of freewill.

I was going to come back tomorrow to post these very scriptures, but I obviously don't need to.

Let me add one more thing: Salvation is referred to as past, present, and future tense throughout the scriptures. This clearly shows it's an ongoing process, which will be completed when we receive our glorified bodies.

I will say, however, that believers shouldn't fret or stress. Stay close to Jesus, He is the Author and Finisher of their salvation.
 
Prayers answered

Update:My husband was about to become a United Church of Christ For a week I was in much prayers that my husband withdraw his canidancy as a Pastor for the UCC and that he cancell his Sunday morning preaching appointments with the church, he was scheduled to preach all Sundays in January. A few days ago, on the spur of the moment we met with a friend. Our friend said he was coming off a fast. My husband went into details about how he is about to become a UCC pastor (one of the most liberal chuches in the country). Our friend asked, what does your wife think about you becoming a UCC pastor and my husband said she doesn't want me to go near the church. She wants me to cancell all contacts and commitments with them. Our friend said "listen to your wife' she's right. The next day my husband cancelled all contact with the UCC church. It's a miracle, Praise God. Thank you Peace Seeker, ByGraceAlone and other Talk Jesus friends for your support while I was going through this.
 
The new testament is quite clear, the wrath of God abides on the children of disobedience. I know. You don't agree. hummmm...

Why do you put words into my mouth? Of course I agree with scripture. But wrath doesnt mean God throws fire and brimstone on everyone.

And who are children of disobedience? Its not the belivers who are reconciled.
 
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