Ongoing Inner Conflict

[NetChaplain]

It is essential that we take a moment to consider the inward conflict of the growing child of God. It may be said, “What if a man knows his sins to be forgiven and more, liberty” (which some call “sanctification,” “deeper life,” etc.), “then, surely, every spiritual desire must be gratified, and thenceforward, till heaven be gained, there can be nothing more to be wished for it.

In things spiritual, as in things natural, when children have grown up to manhood, to ripe age, or, as Scripture says, are “perfect” (1Co 13:10, 11), they do not find that thenceforward there is nothing to do, nothing to suffer. Quite the contrary; in one sense they may be said to begin life only when perfect (mature—NC). Until the great and terrible “I” be held by grace to have been crucified with Christ, the believer can hardly be said to have begun to live the new life in its liberty (possessing salvation but not yet overcoming the “old man’—NC); but liberty obtained, inner conflict is certain to be entered into.

Before we were brought into Christian liberty, the enabling of the indwelling Spirit was not known, but, being delivered from the thrall of the old man, we are in the moral position which should gain the victory day by day. Not that the position itself is victory—it is only the vantage ground for victory; freedom from the domination of sin is obtained by the Spirit (Rom 8:13). Still, it is no little good to know what the vantage ground is, and a greater thing to occupy that ground.

The Spirit of God dwelling within us energizes the desire of the new life which He has implanted in us. He leads to humility, gentleness, and courage, and all in a divine way. We do not mean such qualities apart from the Spirit, which in that case may be merely traits of the Adamic life (the old man mimicking holiness but not genuine—NC).

When our old man stirs us up to desire its old things, the Spirit of God does not remain passive in us, but occasions conflict within: “For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would” (Gal 5:17). He restrains the believer from doing the things which the flesh likes, and constrains him to do the things which the Father loves, and effects this by acting upon the new man (Eph 3:16). The believer is not, and never will be, free from having sin in him in this world; nor will he be free from the danger of committing any kind of evil: and he is never, practically, safe except when he realizes his weakness, and walks in dependence upon the Holy Spirit (ever safe in salvation, but in need of growth—NC).

Should he say, “I cannot help doing evil,” then he denies the Spirit of God in him as the enablement for righteous living, and remains in the mire of sin. Should he say, “I am holy, or spiritual, or heavenly,” and in his heart think of what he is in himself (halted on the thought of being a sinner—NC), then it is the old man at work in another and more dangerous form, and he has denied the Spirit of God in His ability to produce spirituality, and heavenly-mindedness. This last is worse than the first, for the first is unbelief in God and the last is belief in himself (Gal 6:3—NC). The truth is, there is constant conflict proceeding within the growing child of God, and the Spirit is continually restraining from evil, as well as leading to good (retaining salvation while growing in Christ (Eph 4:15—NC).

The flesh in its pride would say, “I can live to God by means of law-keeping and religious observances”; and the flesh in its lusts would say, “I am safe for eternity, and thus can live for myself.” The new life the Father has given us has no affinity for either the one or the other of these evils, and the Spirit of God opposes the flesh in each.


– Henry Forbes Witherby (1836-1907)





MJS daily devotional excerpt for Oct 20

“Faith is dependence upon the Father. And this God-dependence only begins when self-dependence ends. And self-dependence only comes to its end, with most of us, when sorrow, suffering, affliction, broken plans and hopes bring us to that place of self-helplessness where we throw ourselves upon our Father in seeming utter helplessness and defeat. And only then do we find that we have learned the lesson of faith; to find our tiny craft of life rushing onward to a blessed life of fruitfulness and service undreamt of in the days of our fleshly strength and self-reliance.”—Charles Henry Mackintosh (1820-1896)

 

[Bethel]

Your Thread is typical of a carnal believer's Theology, who has continual flesh issues, and who is not a real student regarding the Epistles of Paul who teaches that you can live free from sin and the desire to sin.
So, according to your THREAD.......and POSTS......You dont know anything about this at all, and your "writers'" that you cut and paste....are no different, ive noticed.


Paul teaches the opposite of what you teach.
So what does that make you "NetChaplin"?
= Exactly the opposite of Paul....., and you would do well to invest some time in reading something other than deceptive commentaries that will keep you sinning and confessing and unable to stop.....(as your Thread is suggesting, teaching.).

Ive noticed that a lot of heretics, love to post this.....that Paul wrote.

= "that which i dont want to do, i do, and that which i want to do, i cant'"

For some reason, carnal heretics LOVE that part of Paul's epistle, while they never read or post about what he continues to teach.
As if you had studied more, NetChaplin..... you would have discovered that Paul does not stay in that situation, that you are in..
Not at all.
He moved ON, and ended up here...

= "CHRIST ALWAYS...= gives me the VICTORY" over sin, the world, the flesh, and the devil.

See that part?
That is the main part of Paul's Teaching that continued PAST, the "i can't do it"......and HERETICS never read that part and never post about that part., as you know.
They always STOP with the "i can't " and never ever do they continue to study what Paul continues to teach..

= "Christ ALWAYS gives me the VICTORY".


So, NetChaplin, does that sound like Paul is struggling with the flesh issue you have, and that your commentary authors are dealing with?

A.) NOPE

You should think about that more, before you post more offense to the Grace of God on a public forum, that tries to turn the Victory found in Christ, into some low level carnal discipleship theology.

 

[Bethel]

I didn't imply or insinuate.
I stated clear direct facts regarding the theology you posted as your THread.

Let me show you.. again.

Today....You went to at least 3 "christian forums" and posted the same Thread as found on this one.
IN it, you and your "teacher", your commentary writer, stated that Paul is stuck in : "that which i want to do i cant".
And He is not....but you obviously are, as that is where you LEFT His Theology.
You didn't complete it.
THat is what i wrote, and now i just wrote it again.
Read me?
That is not an insinuation, nor a false accusation.....it is a simple FACT regarding your Thread's POV.

Your Thread teaches a false theology, whereby you state that the inner conflict that a believer has with their flesh and their wrong desires is a constant issue..... lifelong.

Paul teaches the Opposite...
HE says that Christ in Him, lives Holiness through Him...........and that is why he does not have issues as you state you have, and that all believers must have, so you teach.
And like i told you, had you put down the commentary and did some real bible study, you would have found that Paul teaches : "Christ Always GIVES ME THE VICTORY"...

That is not a Struggle with sin............that is not an inner fight committed endlessly ............that is a DELIVERANCE from all that, ...while YOU and your commentary TEACH that all believers have to suffer that, endlessly.

A.) Not so.
B.) Not true.

God did not come down here to die on the Cross, to provide you with an inescapable flesh issue., as you teach.
God came here to take us out of that carnal mind and out of the world system that drives it to lust.
Understand?

Paul told you.......>"as many as be PERFECT"...... and that is not a believer who is "inner conflicting"... 24/7, as you teach.

Paul told you... that you are to become the "fullness of the stature of CHRIST".......while on EARTH........and that does not include trying to stop an inner conflict and a slavery to the flesh situation, that never ends, as you teach, NetChaplin.

"""Victory in CHRIST"", as Paul teaches......is not about trying to be good, and trying to strive against the old nature, as you teach., NetChaplin.... and as i have now pointed out to you clearly, once again..., with no insinuation or false accusation.

Im happy to do it for you a 3rd 4th, or 20th time if you need it to help you get the message right.
You can decide that for yourself.

 

[Johann]

I didn't imply or insinuate.
I stated clear direct facts regarding the theology you posted as your THread.

Let me show you.. again.

Today....You went to at least 3 "christian forums" and posted the same Thread as found on this one.
IN it, you and your "teacher", your commentary writer, stated that Paul is stuck in : "that which i want to do i cant".
And He is not....but you obviously are, as that is where you LEFT His Theology.
You didn't complete it.
THat is what i wrote, and now i just wrote it again.
Read me?
That is not an insinuation, nor a false accusation.....it is a simple FACT regarding your Thread's POV.

Your Thread teaches a false theology, whereby you state that the inner conflict that a believer has with their flesh and their wrong desires is a constant issue..... lifelong.

Paul teaches the Opposite...
HE says that Christ in Him, lives Holiness through Him...........and that is why he does not have issues as you state you have, and that all believers must have, so you teach.
And like i told you, had you put down the commentary and did some real bible study, you would have found that Paul teaches : "Christ Always GIVES ME THE VICTORY"...

That is not a Struggle with sin............that is not an inner fight committed endlessly ............that is a DELIVERANCE from all that, ...while YOU and your commentary TEACH that all believers have to suffer that, endlessly.

A.) Not so.
B.) Not true.

God did not come down here to die on the Cross, to provide you with an inescapable flesh issue., as you teach.
God came here to take us out of that carnal mind and out of the world system that drives it to lust.
Understand?

Paul told you.......>"as many as be PERFECT"...... and that is not a believer who is "inner conflicting"... 24/7, as you teach.

Paul told you... that you are to become the "fullness of the stature of CHRIST".......while on EARTH........and that does not include trying to stop an inner conflict and a slavery to the flesh situation, that never ends, as you teach, NetChaplin.

"""Victory in CHRIST"", as Paul teaches......is not about trying to be good, and trying to strive against the old nature, as you teach., NetChaplin.... and as i have now pointed out to you clearly, once again..., with no insinuation or false accusation.

Im happy to do it for you a 3rd 4th, or 20th time if you need it to help you get the message right.
You can decide that for yourself.

The brother, whom you condemn as propagating "false heresies" is not so doing willfully.
Why Does God Allow Me to Struggle and Fail?



By Rev Dr. D. Wayne Beeks | October 30, 2018

The other evening, I had the privilege to minister two fellow deputies going through difficult times and changes in their lives. The familiar theme and question of each of them were if God is so good, why does he allow bad things to happen, and having the feeling of being a failure with everything they are doing.

Nowhere in the bible does it say life will be free of hardship and struggle. Instead, the bible says there will be difficult times in our lives. Walking daily with God does not guarantee a pain-free life and to not fail. Walking with God, and keeping His word ensure salvation and a place in His Kingdom which is the greatest reward of all.

“Dear friends, don't be surprised when the fiery ordeal comes among you to test you as if something unusual were happening to you. Instead, rejoice as you share in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may also rejoice with great joy when his glory is revealed. If you are ridiculed for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. Let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or a meddler. But if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed but let him glorify God in having that name. For the time has come for judgment to begin with God's household, and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who disobey the gospel of God? And if a righteous person is saved with difficulty, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner? (So then, let those who suffer according to God's will entrust themselves to a faithful Creator while doing what is good.” (1Pe 4:12-19 CSB)
The rest of chapter 4 contains exhortations and explanations concerning suffering incurred for the name of Christ. The word “suffering” and its derivatives are used twenty-one times in this Epistle.
The natural attitude for a Christian is to look on persecution as strange and abnormal. We are surprised when we have to suffer. But Peter tells us that we should consider it as normal Christian experience. We have no right to expect better treatment from the world than our Savior received. All who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted (2Ti_3:12). It is especially true that those who take a forthright stand for Christ become the object of savage attack. Satan doesn't waste his ammunition on nominal Christians. He turns his big guns on those who are storming the gates of Hades.

God allows struggle and difficult times because we are sinners and we all come short of the glory of God. God loves us, but because of our sinful nature, He allows these things to happen. He knows that by allowing us to experience failure, pain, and struggle, we will grow stronger in our faith and to become closer to Him and moving away from sin. During our times of struggle, the path is not easy and without pain, but having faith in Him and knowing He will never leave us shall be enough to get us through. God does not cause suffering, but He can and may allow it to accomplish good.

“We know that all things work together for the good of those who love God, who are called according to his purpose.” (Rom 8:28 CSB)

God allows us to experience the consequences of our poor choices, and the consequences of not living in His word. We have the gift of free will, and because of it, we are free to make decisions; both good and bad. If we were to suffer no consequences for our bad choices what motivation would there be for each of us to make good and sound decisions? More so, if God were to intervene in all our poor decisions, then we would no longer have the gift of free will; allowing the freedom to choose good and bad. Few would argue that a lesson learned with pain, struggle, and hardship is a lesson quickly forgotten.

“No discipline seems enjoyable at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.” (Heb 12:11 CSB)
No chastening for the present seemeth (πᾶσα μὲν παιδεία πρὸς μὲν τὸ παρὸν οὐ δοκεῖ)
Lit. all chastening - doth not seem. Πᾶσα of all sorts, divine and human. The A.V., by joining οὐ not to πᾶσα all, and rendering no chastisement, weakens the emphasis on the idea every kind of chastisement. Πρὸς μὲν τὸ παρὸν for the present. For the force of πρὸς see on Heb_12:10. Not merely during the present, but for the present regarded as the time in which its application is necessary and salutary. Μὲν indicates that the suffering present is to be offset by a fruitful future - but (δὲ) afterward.
To be joyous but grievous (χαρᾶς εἶναι ἀλλὰ λύπης)
Lit. to be of joy but of grief.
It yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness (καρπὸν εἰρηνικὸν ἀποδίδωσιν δικαιοσύνης)
Perhaps with a suggestion of recompense for the long-suffering and waiting, since ἀποδιδόναι often signifies “to give back.” The phrase ἀποδιδόναι καρπὸν only here and Rev_22:2. Καρπὸν fruit with διδόναι to give, Mat_13:8; Mar_4:8 : with ποιεῖν to make or produce, often in Synoptic Gospels, as Mat_3:8, Mat_3:10; Mat_7:17; Luk_3:8; Luk_6:43, etc.: with φέρειν to bear, always and only in John, Joh_12:24; Joh_15:2, Joh_15:4, Joh_15:5, Joh_15:8, Joh_15:16 : with βλαστάνειν to bring forth, Jas_5:18. Ἑιρηνικός peaceable, in N.T. Only here and Jas_3:17, as an epithet of wisdom. Quite often in lxx of men, the heart, especially of words and sacrifices. The phrase καρπός εἰρηνικός peaceable fruit (omit the), N.T.o , olxx. The phrase fruit of righteousness, Php_1:11; Jas_3:18, and lxx, Pro_3:9; Pro_11:30; Pro_13:2; Amo_6:13 : comp. Psa_1:3; Psa_57:11. The genitive of righteousness is explicative or appositional; fruit which consists in righteousness or is righteousness.
Unto them which are exercised thereby (τοῖς δἰ αὐτῆς γεγυμνασμένοις)
Who have been subjected to the severe discipline of suffering, and have patiently undergone it. For the verb see on 1Ti_4:7. Rend. “it yieldeth peaceable fruit unto them that have been exercised thereby, even the fruit of righteousness.” This preserves the Greek order, and puts righteousness in its proper, emphatic position.
Vincent

God allows for struggling to build our inner strength and faith. Without struggle and resistance, a person would be weak and unable to sustain themselves when confronted by the challenges of experience in life. A tree that grows in the absence of wind will quickly reach a point where it can no longer stand upright, and it will fall over and perish; lacking the strength to even support its weight, let alone the wind of struggle. Think back over the years of those individuals admired and respected for their strength of character and their wisdom. Were these people from a life without difficulty and conflict?

“And not only that, but we also rejoice in our afflictions, because we know that affliction produces endurance, endurance produces proven character, and proven character produces hope. This hope will not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.” (Rom 5:3-5 CSB)

God allows us to struggle and fail to bring humility and realization we need Him in our lives all day, every day. Sometimes it is hard to see and understand why a loving God allows us to struggle and experience hardship, but it is because of His love for us and His desire to bring us closer to Him he allows it. If a person lived a life filled with endless comfort and without a struggle; would they seek the Lord? I doubt many would.

“But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is perfected in weakness." Therefore, I will most gladly boast all the more about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may reside in me. So I take pleasure in weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and in difficulties, for the sake of Christ. For when I am weak, then I am strong. (2Co 12:9-10 CSB)

We may attempt to see the positive outcome achievable through experiencing struggle, hardship, and pain, but we only see it for the pain and struggle. When we strive to understand and experience God, we can do so from our limited, imperfect senses. It is like looking at the world through a soda straw. We get a very narrow and limited view. Unlike God, we are unable to see and know the totality, only seeing a glimpse of a reflection.

“For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know fully, as I am fully known.” (1Co 13:12 CSB)

There will be times where it seems the undeserving needlessly suffer through no fault or doing of their own. What useful purpose would such suffering bring? Through such suffering, the grace and mercy of God may also be seen by others, so they may come to know God.

“As he was passing by, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him: "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind? ““Neither this man nor his parents sinned," Jesus answered. "This came about so that God's works might be displayed in him.” (John 9:1-3 CSB)

Although we struggle and suffer because of our sin, it is also of His love for us, God will allow us to struggle, and to experience pain and failure.

“In struggling against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. And you have forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons: My son, do not take the Lord's discipline lightly or lose heart when you are reproved by him, for the Lord disciplines the one he loves and punishes every son he receives.” (Heb 12:4-6 CSB)

During times of struggle, it may not be easy and or will it be without pain but having our living faith in Him and knowing He will never leave us shall be enough to get us through our trials.

"Be strong and courageous; don't be terrified or afraid of them. For the LORD your God is the one who will go with you; he will not leave you or abandon you." (Deu 31:6 CSB)

Our suffering on earth is a small price to pay for the vast riches and glory that await us.

“For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is going to be revealed to us” (Rom 8:18 CSB)

Why Does God Allow Me to Struggle and Fail?

By Rev Dr. D.

www.linkedin.com

If you have reached the "state of sinless perfection" well done to you.

You have just become a "Wesleyan"

I also have mentioned the "struggles of the Christian life" and was scolded...'Why struggle, we have God to turn to?"


Just because the brother posted on various struggles of the Christian life, don't label him as an heretic.

This is not Christ like

Johann

 

[Johann]

That is not a Struggle with sin............that is not an inner fight committed endlessly ............that is a DELIVERANCE from all that, ...while YOU and your commentary TEACH that all believers have to suffer that, endlessly.

Have you attained to the state of absolute sinless perfection?
In word, thought and deed....?

A simple "yes or no" would suffice.

Johann

 

[Bethel]

The brother, whom you condemn as propagating "false heresies" is not so doing willfully.
Why Does God Allow Me to Struggle and Fail?

If you have reached the "state of sinless perfection" well done to you.

You have just become a "Wesleyan"

John Wesley was a fair student of the bible, but a terrible student of Paul.
Avoid his Theology, as Wesley was a bit of a theological gumbo.

And, there is a difference between living in inner conflict, that is due to not understanding the Grace of God, as NetChaplin is struggling to understand, and the maturing that is involved with walking the walk of True Discipleship.

There are also Believers who have a "christian martyr" complex, and they only see hardships in life as "God designed".
These people tend to forget that the DEVIL is real and HE will bring harm to you... and its up to you stand against this with the armor of God, vs, blaming God for "letting it happen".

 

[Johann]

John Wesley was a fair student of the bible, but a terrible student of Paul.
Avoid his Theology, as Wesley was a bit of a theological gumbo.

And, there is a difference between living in inner conflict, that is due to not understanding the Grace of God, as NetChaplin is struggling to understand, and the maturing that is involved with walking the walk of True Discipleship.

There are also Believers who have a "christian martyr" complex, and they only see hardships in life as "God designed".
These people tend to forget that the DEVIL is real and HE will bring harm to you... and its up to you stand against this with the armor of God, vs, blaming God for "letting it happen".

....hence my question to you, are we all walking in the Spirit 24/7? Or in a state of sinless perfection?

Are believers in Christ capable of sinning, not habitually, or in a state, but sinning, nevertheless, in word, thought and deed?


I appreciate your handle on the 13 Pauline epistles.....


2Pe 3:15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
2Pe 3:16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

Straining Toward the Goal

Php 3:12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.

What is your thought on....Not that I have already obtained....already perfect?



Php 3:13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,
Php 3:14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you.
Php 3:16 Only let us hold true to what we have attained.
Php 3:17 Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us.
Php 3:18 For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ.
Php 3:19 Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things.
Php 3:20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Php 3:21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.

Thanks
Johann

 

[Bethel]

....hence my question to you, are we all walking in the Spirit 24/7? Or in a state of sinless perfection?

Are believers in Christ capable of sinning,

The reason most believers have such an issue with their Christianity, is because they dont understand 2 things..

1.) The "Christian" is not the body or the mind. Its the born again Spirit. And the born again Spirit, already exists in eternal = union with God and Christ.

That situation, is eternal, and most do not understand this at all.

2.) The day a person is born again, they become the righteousness of God in Christ. Its a GIFT from God. And it remains. And it has nothing to do with how you behave, as a born again believer has been MADE RIGHTEOUS., and they remain so..

 

[Johann]

The day a person is born again, they become the righteousness of God in Christ. Its a GIFT from God. And it remains. And it has nothing to do with how you behave, as a born again believer has been MADE RIGHTEOUS., and they remain so..

Interesting.

Shalom
Johann

 

[Bethel]

Interesting.

Shalom
Johann

Shalom.,

Yes, ... being born again, is very interesting.

How does God's Holy Spirit give spiritual birth to ours ?
How does God actually do that??
Thats a mystery, yet, it has to happen, or we dont go to heaven.
Jesus said....>"you MUST be born again"..

Another is...

Why is being born again so important?

A.) Its because when we are born again, we change spiritual Fathers...


Jesus said...... "you are of YOUR FATHER, the DEVIL".

And who is that?
Its every person who is not born again. Its all these... John 3:36
And when we are born again, we now have a NEW Spiritual Father, and that is why we call Him "abba", , as before He wasn't our Heavenly Father,.

 

[Johann]

Shalom.,

Yes, ... being born again, is very interesting.

How does God's Holy Spirit give spiritual birth to ours ?
How does God actually do that??
Thats a mystery, yet, it has to happen, or we dont go to heaven.
Jesus said....>"you MUST be born again"..

Another is...

Why is being born again so important?

A.) Its because when we are born again, we change spiritual Fathers...


Jesus said...... "you are of YOUR FATHER, the DEVIL".

And who is that?
Its every person who is not born again. Its all these... John 3:36
And when we are born again, we now have a NEW Spiritual Father, and that is why we call Him "abba", , as before He wasn't our Heavenly Father,.

2.) The day a person is born again, they become the righteousness of God in Christ. Its a GIFT from God. And it remains. And it has nothing to do with how you behave, as a born again believer has been MADE RIGHTEOUS., and they remain so..

I said interesting....especially, : "...and it has nothing to do with HOW you behave"

Johann

 

[Bethel]

2.) The day a person is born again, they become the righteousness of God in Christ. Its a GIFT from God. And it remains. And it has nothing to do with how you behave, as a born again believer has been MADE RIGHTEOUS., and they remain so..

I said interesting....especially, : "...and it has nothing to do with HOW you behave"

Johann

When we come to Jesus... When we kneel at the Cross........the first time........we are bringing God a lifetime of SIN.
We are not bringing Him any good works.
And God makes us RIGHTEOUS..............and we have done nothing but SIN all our lives........

So, God makes us righteous, "while we are YET SINNERS"..........
So, as that is TRUE, then the truth follows that being GOOD later, is meaningless regarding our Salvation, when God gave us righteousness when we were "yet SINNERS".

 

[NetChaplain]

Your Thread is typical of a carnal believer's Theology, who has continual flesh issues, and who is not a real student regarding the Epistles of Paul who teaches that you can live free from sin and the desire to sin.

Free from the guilt of the sin nature ("old man" - Ro 8:1); free from its "dominion" (Ro 6:14); but not from its presence and temptings (Rom 7:17, 20, 23).