Paul say's to wait with them

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

2 thess 1:7 Wait with us until Jesus is revealed from heaven... but wait a minute Paul...... believers go to heaven when they die but, your saying that's not true.
Since Jesus hasn't been revealed from Heaven Paul still waits and he is Not in Heaven.....

Acts 2:34 David has NOT risen to heaven - he waits like Paul does.
Acts 13:36 after David was done he fell on sleep (died and waited)

Daniel 12:1-2 and those who's name are written in the book of life shall AWAKEN to everlasting life and some to everlasting shame. So we see believers being awaken at same time as unbelievers for the Gathering together.(Rev 1:7)

remember the VIRGINS slumbered and they as well as the 5 unwise would awaken at same time... when Jesus wakes then up....

1Cor 15:51 not everybody will sleep, some will be alive at His coming and the dead shall rise first changing their bodies from corrupt to incorruptable in the twinkle if an eye and those alive will be caught up together with those who were dead.

1Thes 4:13 tells us not to be foolish as unbelievers who have no hope over those who are asleep

1Thes 5:10 if we sleep or if we wake when Christ comes we Both shall be together with Him...

So its clear, grandma and grandpa are NOT in heaven but resting till Christ comes and picks up His bride....

And the verse "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" remember we are not absent of this body at death but at resurrection.

The devil then uses this teaching so that people pray to mary and the saints which also sleep but lack of knowledge is their own making....

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Daniel 12:1-2 show both believers and unbelievers awake at same time....

Rev 14:13-20 shows and angel go out from Father to tell Christ its time for rapture and in 16 believers and 18 unbelievers awaken
If you go to Daniel 11:43-45 you see Gog (islam) is chasing the antichrist who then hears both china and russia are coming and he waits in the valley of meggido for the battle... now go back and see that those in Rev 14:18 are those whos blood fills that valley.

So we see we are taking before armageddon happens

 

[RJ]

So its clear, grandma and grandpa are NOT in heaven but resting till Christ comes and picks up His bride....

No, it is clear you must have all this mixed up.
You can't compare or rationalize the physical world or the natural world to that of God's realm, the super natural or spirit world.
In the physical world, yes the dead before us sleep and await Christ's rapture of the church.
In the spirit world, there is no space and time as we know it. Spiritually, Christ has already gathered his church and the devil is defeated.
Ephesians 2:6 For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Don't confuse the physical world with God's realm. If you are Christian , surely you will die, and , when you die, you will be with God in heaven. Christ demonstrated that the resurrected body transcends the both the physical and spiritual realm and so will you!

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

So tell me aj

Where is paul waiting for Christ return or in heaven?
Where is david has he ascended to heaven ?

The eph verses do not say what you think they do when it comes to going to heaven upon death....

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Aj, if you thought eph verses trumped paul saying for us to wait with them till Christ comes wouldn't that make paul a liar then?

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Where is paul waiting for Christ return or in heaven?
Where is david has he ascended to heaven ?

The eph verses do not say what you think they do when it comes to going to heaven upon death

David and Paul's body is still in the earth.
But our God is the God of the living and not the dead.
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
Eph. 2 is talking about those in Christ not their physical bodies.
The physical body remains in the dirt until the resurrection.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Jesus was on earth but since there is eternal time in heaven he never left.
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Do you consider yourself a body,a spirit or a soul?
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[RJ]

So tell me aj

Where is paul waiting for Christ return or in heaven?
Where is david has he ascended to heaven ?

The eph verses do not say what you think they do when it comes to going to heaven upon death....

Aj, if you thought eph verses trumped paul saying for us to wait with them till Christ comes wouldn't that make paul a liar then?

That would be RJ, thank you!
All I can say is that God tells us he is spirit and we must worship him in spirit and truth!
The truth here is you must separate the physical world from his spiritual realm.
If you can't do that, you will never understand what I am talking about, and Paul knew this better than either one of us!

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

David and Paul's body is still in the earth.
But our God is the God of the living and not the dead.
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
Eph. 2 is talking about those in Christ not their physical bodies.
The physical body remains in the dirt until the resurrection.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Jesus was on earth but since there is eternal time in heaven he never left.
Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Do you consider yourself a body,a spirit or a soul?
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Again..
1. We are not absent from this earthly body UNTIL our earthly bodies are changed from corruptable (which means we still have them) to incorruptable.... this happens in the twinkle of an eye at His coming which is what Paul tells you to wait for....

2. If David was in Heaven with Christ then why would he say he is not? And we would be told He was in Heaven and not about his body being in the ground.... davids body which is in the ground isnt going to Heaven anyway so the only thing left is his soul.


3. The Holy Spirit returns to God at death.
4. Daniel say all whose names are written in the book of life awaken to everlasting life (wait their already awake to that I thought) and some to shame....

When Christ comes every eye will see him even the dead and daniel shows all awaking at same time Dan 12:1-2

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Thiscroosshurts said: Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

TRUTH BE TOLD replies: the Spirit that returns is the Holy Spirit

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Paul waits for this

1thes 4:16 for the dead (paul shall rise first)
4:17 to MEET THE LORD
2 thes 2:1 now we beseech you (this is urgent) by the coming of Christ and OUR GATHERING TOGETHER WITH HIM,
Dont believe This Day happens before MOS sits as God in temple


What does Christ gather of ours? Not our body but what is left?

our souls.. again spirit is holy spirit

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

1. We are not absent from this earthly body UNTIL our earthly bodies are changed from corruptable (which means we still have them) to incorruptable.... this happens in the twinkle of an eye at His coming which is what Paul tells you to wait for..

That's how it looks from here, I agree.
I also see another dimension to the whole picture in scripture.
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

When I pray I come close to being absent from the body or self.
When I meditate on God's ways and precepts(sometimes called laws) I leave the natural mind behind
and i can better perceive the one who is with the Lord.
2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

2. If David was in Heaven with Christ then why would he say he is not? And we would be told He was in Heaven and not about his body being in the ground.... davids body which is in the ground isnt going to Heaven anyway so the only thing left is his soul.

I agree and neither is the person that I was when I had a beginning on the earth many years ago,but I am not that person.
He and David are dead and in the earth,the only difference is that David's dust is no longer animated by a spirit.
The life I now live is the Life of Christ in me.

4. Daniel say all whose names are written in the book of life awaken to everlasting life (wait their already awake to that I thought) and some to shame....

We would need to better define the word "name" before I can make any meaningful comment on this verse.

When Christ comes every eye will see him even the dead and daniel shows all awaking at same time Dan 12:1-2

I follow what your saying and don't disagree,I just see more to the whole picture,we can't just throw out scripture that throws doubt on a position.

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

TRUTH BE TOLD replies: the Spirit that returns is the Holy Spirit

I agree, that same Holy Spirit that we are told to walk in now.
Ezekiel 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Galatians 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

John 5:25 is about men hearing the good news of the gospel and becoming a believer alive in Christ...

2 cor 12:2-7 It is Paul speaking of himself when He was on the road to Damascus when Christ appeared to Him, this is why he says in verse 5-6 that he will not glory because of it, this is where Paul gets his Gospel and Not men.... v7 least I should be exhalted

Eph 2:6 is about when we accept Christ - are you up there now? Only because your name is written in the lambs book of life and Rev 3:5 which you can be blotted out of...

 

[RJ]

We are not absent from this earthly body UNTIL our earthly bodies are changed from corruptable (which means we still have them) to incorruptable.

This makes absolutely no sense. In the meantime, if you where to die today, where does your body go and where does your spirit go?

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

When they say david has not ascended to heaven are they talking about his body? It doesnt go to heaven so since the Holy Spirit leaves. Back to the Father what is left to ascend?

His soul....

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Rj so dont believe it, paul is in heaven with SOME of the bride
David yep hes there too....

The spirit is the holy spirit and not your soul and since davids body wont be going to heaven only the soul is left to go....

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

This cross hurts said: we can't just throw out scripture that throws doubt on a position...

TRUTH BE TOLD replies: the scriptures dont say both correct, so you have to have verses that say we go upon death and are there now before Christ comes.... I covered a few of your verses above

 

[RJ]

When they say david has not ascended to heaven are they talking about his body? It doesnt go to heaven so since the Holy Spirit leaves. Back to the Father what is left to ascend?

Again, you confuse the physical world with the spiritual world, you can't do that!
In the spiritual world, all is complete. In the now and physical world the body remains on earth corruptible and awaits rapture when it is raised incorruptible.
The rapture creates the resurrected / spiritual body, suited for heaven and the spiritual world.
Christ revealed his resurrected body to the 11 and then the 12, His body was an incorruptible / spiritual body that could somehow transcend the physical and spiritual at will!

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Again, you confuse the physical world with the spiritual world, you can't do that!
In the spiritual world, all is complete. In the now and physical world the body remains on earth corruptible and awaits rapture when it is raised incorruptible.
The rapture creates the resurrected / spiritual body, suited for heaven and the spiritual world.
Christ revealed his resurrected body to the 11 and then the 12, His body was an incorruptible / spiritual body that could somehow transcend the physical and spiritual at will!

I see it the same way,it's the only way i can see to satisfy all scripture.
God is not waiting for his children,he lacks no thing.

1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Last reply

1. If davids soul is in heaven why would they say he has not ascended
2. There are only 3 things
A. Holy Spirit
B. Body
C. Soul

The Holy Spirit isnt davids so we will remove Him as He goes back to the Father..
The body is corruptible and doesnt go to heaven
So that leaves what? Soul

Do you really think when paul say to wait with them he is telling you to wait your body with him or your soul?


Why would paul say wait till jesus picks up his bride? If he is in heaven?
just like he does the 5 wise virgins.... because thats what happens.

 

[TRUTH BE TOLD]

Again, you confuse the physical world with the spiritual world, you can't do that!
In the spiritual world, all is complete. In the now and physical world the body remains on earth corruptible and awaits rapture when it is raised incorruptible.
The rapture creates the resurrected / spiritual body, suited for heaven and the spiritual world.
Christ revealed his resurrected body to the 11 and then the 12, His body was an incorruptible / spiritual body that could somehow transcend the physical and spiritual at will!

Rj what of davids hasnt ascended yet? No big long answer

Body soul or spirit

This makes absolutely no sense. In the meantime, if you where to die today, where does your body go and where does your spirit go?

Educate yourself then it will make sense... we are not shed of this corruptible body until in the twinkle of an eye we will be changed from corruptible to incorruptible... so look it up and see we dont have our new body's yet which means we are not absent of the old body....