proof

[mradam0504]

I don't understand why when asked for proof, religious people always quote the bible. Can anyone offer proof that is not scripture?

 

[dayofhope]

Proof that God exists, or something else?

The reason people put Bible verses in with answers is because when you're answering a question, you're putting how you interpret a Bible verse to mean. So putting the Bible verse there is backing you up, also allowing people to put their own meaning into it instead of them just using your words as the complete meaning. It gives an idea of how you came to the answer to a question. Sort of like citing your sources.

I can see how someone who doesn't believe in the Bible wouldn't really care much about the verses added in, though (until later, at least). I think the versus were first meant to answer questions asked by believers, and people just started using them for people who don't believe, too. But I may be wrong about that... I was just wondering that myself, actually. (why people post versus to people who don't yet believe) so yeah I might be wrong, that's just the answer I came up with

 

[David777]

Hello mradam0504.

Good questions.

In order to answer your first question I will of course
quote from the New Testament.

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, that is why the Bible
is used for quotes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

In answer to your second question.

1) You and I.
2) The World and the cosmos.
3) Christian Churches.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[mradam0504]

OK I see what your saying Dayofhope, but it bugs me lol. And thanz David777 for replying with bible verse..very helpful. And I meant God exists.

 

[dayofhope]

Proof God exists;;

Obviously, there's no mathematical or scientific proof I can give you that everyone agrees upon that states God exists.

To be honest, (and you're probably going to hate this answer) God has proven Himself real to me many times. Not the way you want proof, but there's times when I just "know". It's hard to explain. He has spoken to me through a dream, through a literal voice in my head (I am sane, lol! I can think of this happening twice, both while praying about something, and after I heard it and followed it, it was definitely the best choice to make.), and a few other harder to explain times. There are times when you can feel the spirit moving in you, and it's just the most amazing feeling in the world. After you feel that, there's not a doubt in your mind He is real.

There's also the fact that science has been proven flawed many times, and there is absolutely nothing disproving the existence of God. Science does try to disprove God, but so far they have not.

Have you ever looked around? You'll see other people, all totally and completely unique due to anything from genetics to experiences. You'll see a water cycle and a circle of life and tons. of environmental systems that are so delicate and yet they have been able to sustain for years and years (until we started to be more abusive towards it). You'll see a human brain and feelings and so many other things science has not provided an answer for to how complex it is. You'll see miracles. You'll also see terrible things, but whose fault is that? The worlds', or humans'? And people say all of this, your entire life, the entire universe, happened by complete chance? (We see all of these planets that have no life we know of, and the only one sustainable to life is Earth, and somehow Earth just happens to have all of these completely perfect balances to last thousands of years?)

I'm sure that other than my personal experiences, you've heard most of these things before. The thing is, I can't convince you there is a God. That's a choice God has given everyone to make for themselves, to have faith, or not. But yeah, that's my answer anyway, whether you agree or not. I hope it helped in some way. ~

 

[Sheep]

I understand your Question and David777 gave a very good answer. And I also believe in the big bang theory: God spoke the word and "!BANG!" the earth and everything came into existence - hahahahah

But let me share my personal experience with you. A year and 6 months ago, I didn't believe in Jesus. Not at all, it was a big fat fairytale to me. But I believed in God. How then did everything so wonderfull came into existence? Finally my eyes opened (after a loooooong struggle) I excepted Jesus Christ as my personal Friend and Saviour. Now here comes the good part: I was in bed fast asleep around about 11:45pm next to my husband, and Jesus Himself came and sat next to me on my bed. I didn't remember my eyes opening but I knew it was Him, why I didn't open my eyes (God knows) but Jesus stoke my hair softly telling me (I will NEVER forget these words): "I will never leave you, you are Mine, No one will ever pluk you from My hand, I gave my life for you, I am always with you, trust Me, don't be afraid I'm right here with you, I love you."

Now if that isn't proof enough, I don't know what is. That was my second encounter with Jesus. But I never get to see Him face to face - "sigh"
Its ok, Jesus and I have all eternity for that

I pray for you that the Holy Spirit will also open your eyes and ears to the full truth and that He will reveal our true God our Father and all His splendor to you so that you can share it with others that seek Him and that you can share it as a testimony (Testimonies are not scripture, its a personal encounter with God or how He moved in your life) I pray that you will have something like this. He says: Seek and you will find, knock and there will be opened for you, ask and you shall receive. Take one step towards Me and I'll take two steps towards you and they that seek Me diligintly will find Me.

I pray this in the Almighty Name of Your Son Jesus Christ our Friend and Saviour. Amen

I'm so very blessed to have a few very stong testimonies like this and I share it allot with whoever the Lord sends on my way. It always gets to them, to their hearts. Its one thing speaking to a persons mind, but another thing to speak to his heart. But all the glory to God our Father coz its only He that can speak to the heart - always. He is so good.... Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!!

Lots of blessings

Sheep
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

First of all why would we want proof.
You can't please God without faith and you can't have faith with proof because faith requires that you can't see.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Once he is revealed there is no more opportunity to please him.

John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

 

[farout]

meadam0504, after reading your profile I see you do not believe there is a God.

I am wondering why you are looking for a good debate? I am sure you knew full well this is a Christian forum, so why look for a debate here? There is no way you will change someones beliefe here. You seem well thought out and I think you have made up you mind, right? Or you wanting someone to give you some reason to rethink your position about there just might be a God?

Personally I won't debate you, but I am more than willing to share the Good News that there is a God and He loves you and has no desire for you die and go to hell. Jesus Christ died on the Cross and rose again to take your punishment for your sins. If you will surrender to Him He will save you. The gift is totally yours to take or reject. Would you like to know more?

 

[just-a-servant]

I don't understand why when asked for proof, religious people always quote the bible. Can anyone offer proof that is not scripture?

Proof?

Take your next breath.

 

[Donnie Ducati]

ALL GREAT ANSWERS. :wink:


In my experience and witnessing it doesn't matter how much "proof" you provide, an individual isn't gonna believe/receive the Truth until its "REVEALED" to them.

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

 

[Donnie]

In my experience and witnessing it doesn't matter how much "proof" you provide, an individual isn't gonna believe/receive the Truth until its "REVEALED" to them.

I do not think that is true, fellow Donnie.
The vast majority of people accept as true what they have been told by their parents to be true.
Hence, we find people who fervently believe that Mohammed flew heavenward on a winged horse in places like Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan.
Likewise, a child born in Bombay will become convinced of the veracity of the Vedas and the existence of lord Vishnu.

Donnie

 

[Peace Seeker]

I do not think that is true, fellow Donnie.
The vast majority of people accept as true what they have been told by their parents to be true.
Donnie

And then as they mature in age they think and decide for themselves. :wink:
I am not a Christian because I went to church as a kid, or because my parents told me I must be one, or else. I am a Christian because I have given my life to the Lord. If I was born in a foreign land I still would have given my life to the Lord, because my God draws all His people to Himself. The Shepherd knows His sheep and they know Him.

 

[Donnie]

And then as they mature in age they think and decide for themselves. :wink:
I am not a Christian because I went to church as a kid, or because my parents told me I must be one, or else. I am a Christian because I have given my life to the Lord. If I was born in a foreign land I still would have given my life to the Lord, because my God draws all His people to Himself. The Shepherd knows His sheep and they know Him.

The knight's move goes like this:
"Smoking causes cancer."
"No, it doesn't'" the rebuttal comes, "you see, I have an uncle who smoked for 60 years and he died of old-age, so there."

What is wrong with this logic?

One can summarize the problem in a pithy adage, namely: the plural of anecdote is not data.

Peace Seeker offers the opinion that "God draws all his people to Himself" so we are left to wonder why so few Afghans are drawn to God, I mean the correct one. (I have met a few Afghans, and I can assure you that a lack of piety isn't their problem.)
Are they not His people, or may the fact that apostasy from Islam is punishable by death in this charming country have something to do with it?

What if one happens to be born in Mumbai and all one's friends and relatives pray to the monkey God Hanuman?
Death may not follow apostasy, but complete ostracism from one's community will, which is a rather tall order for many people, especially for those living in abject poverty who are dependent for their very survival on the cooperation with their peers.

Well, perhaps Peace Seeker is right, but then we must conclude that salvation is far easier to achieve for those born in Huntsville, Alabama than it is for, say, a slum-dwelling child in New Delhi.

We can only hope that God, in His wisdom, will allow all these unfortunate people time to "mature in age.....[and] think and decide for themselves...."

I suppose that those who die prior to having the chance of hearing The Message are, as the crude acronym goes, SOL.

Donnie

 

[Peace Seeker]

Peace Seeker offers the opinion that "God draws all his people to Himself" so we are left to wonder why so few Afghans are drawn to God, I mean the correct one.

Perhaps the reason so few Afghans are not drawn to (the only and true) God is because they, like many other people, are not seeking Him.

Matthew 7:7 - "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you".

By "draws" I meant "calls". As in : Matthew 22:14 - "many are called but few are chosen". God calls but forces no one to respond to Him, and most don't because of the stubbornness of their hearts.

The call of God comes through His revelation of Himself through the Holy Spirit, the creation and the conscience within us. But only the "few" will respond because they are the ones who are truly hearing. Jesus said many times, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”

(I have met a few Afghans, and I can assure you that a lack of piety isn't their problem.)

Piety saves no one, only Jesus can. No one can earn salvation, it is a free gift that comes from Jesus alone.

What if one happens to be born in Mumbai and all one's friends and relatives pray to the monkey God Hanuman?
Death may not follow apostasy, but complete ostracism from one's community will, which is a rather tall order for many people, especially for those living in abject poverty who are dependent for their very survival on the cooperation with their peers.

Many of the Christian martyrs throughout history, including up to the present, were poor and suffered terribly for their faith, so it's not just modern day Afghans that may be persecuted for faith in Jesus.

Well, perhaps Peace Seeker is right, but then we must conclude that salvation is far easier to achieve for those born in Huntsville, Alabama than it is for, say, a slum-dwelling child in New Delhi

Salvation is no easier to "achieve" here than anywhere else. People have hard hearts and reject God with the same vigor, regardless of where they are born or located in the world.

Lastly, I find it fascinating how much you pretend to care for the "slum-dwelling child in New Delhi" and the "pious Afghans", when it is not atheist charity that is predominantly helping these people and others all around the world.

Donnie

 

[Kit Carson]

Ever see a Sea Dragon, it is a small fish looks like a horse that is remarkable in its design.

Look at the big whales, the sun the earth and how it somehow maintains order. Not too hot, not too cold.

Watch how a bad person changes, one week they are very disrespectful and the next they open the door for you.

Many things are seen, but very few are recognized.

What about all the flowers and things, did all this just poof and appear? Or rise out of some one celled moss ball

We are beings, we have intelligence and language , animals have certain instincts and functions but none can speak intelligently or show high intelligence as we do. If they could they would be protesting the Eat more Chickin sign..........we are the only beings with language and intelligence.

Kit

 

[Donnie]

Perhaps the reason so few Afghans are not drawn to (the only and true) God is because they, like many other people, are not seeking Him.

Matthew 7:7 - "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you".

By "draws" I meant "calls". As in : Matthew 22:14 - "many are called but few are chosen". God calls but forces no one to respond to Him, and most don't because of the stubbornness of their hearts.

The call of God comes through His revelation of Himself through the Holy Spirit, the creation and the conscience within us. But only the "few" will respond because they are the ones who are truly hearing. Jesus said many times, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”

Piety saves no one, only Jesus can. No one can earn salvation, it is a free gift that comes from Jesus alone.

Many of the Christian martyrs throughout history, including up to the present, were poor and suffered terribly for their faith, so it's not just modern day Afghans that may be persecuted for faith in Jesus.

Salvation is no easier to "achieve" here than anywhere else. People have hard hearts and reject God with the same vigor, regardless of where they are born or located in the world.

Lastly, I find it fascinating how much you pretend to care for the "slum-dwelling child in New Delhi" and the "pious Afghans", when it is not atheist charity that is predominantly helping these people and others all around the world.

Donnie

One gets the impression that you are a category five imbecile, Peace Seeker.

 

[agua]

One gets the impression that you are a category five imbecile, Peace Seeker.

If you choose to exhibit worldly behaviour/mannerisms I suggest you visit a secular forum.

 

[Peace Seeker]

Category five

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

What if one happens to be born in Mumbai and all one's friends and relatives pray to the monkey God Hanuman?
Death may not follow apostasy, but complete ostracism from one's community will, which is a rather tall order for many people, especially for those living in abject poverty who are dependent for their very survival on the cooperation with their peers.

Did they seek the monkey god with all their heart?
Because if they don't they probably won't care to much about the truth either.
Did they ever have the truth of the good news preached to them?
Do us Christians agree yet on what that good news consists of?
I would be willing to bet plenty of people who claim Jesus as their master don't seek him with their whole hearts.

Jesus was impressed with a heathen Roman centurion just because he had a keen understanding of command structure and demonstrated faith in Jesus's authority.
Does God see our faith when we first come to believe but don't really know what we believe yet?

 

[Mr. Traverse]

If you choose to exhibit worldly behaviour/mannerisms I suggest you visit a secular forum.

I'm curious. What classifies behavior as "worldly" and why is the implied assumption that secularists are the only ones that behave in this manner?

Is eating "worldly"? If so, I assume then that you are not a carbon based life form that requires "worldly" compounds for organic continuation.

Respectfully,

Traverse