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Really Struggling With This!

caveman

Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
5
Hi everyone!

It has been along time since I have posted here but I have had some thoughts lately where I think I need to air them out here and get some of your opinions. Over the last year I have read alot of books on the trinity, christianity and Quakerism. I am very happy to be attending my monthly quaker meeting and through my reading I have discovered that I do believe in the trinity and Jesus as God.

Now these comments are not on here to argue or disagree with anyone as I know people view God differently and I totally respect that. Although I am comfotable with my trinitarian thinking I have started having thoughts about all these different beliefs people have.

I have been thinking that if I believe that Jesus is God then that means people who believe Jesus isn't God has an opposing view. One of must be right and one must be wrong. I hope this makes sense as I am just trying to write what I think. Obviously my trinitarian thinking could be the person who is wrong but I just want to try and get out of this way of thinking.

I respect everyone will make their own decisions and if we are sincere and honest with ourselves trhen that is all we can do but did God plan it to be this way or would he/she be sitting there disappointed with how differently we all see and view things in regards to Jesus.

If you have read this far, thank you for hearing me out and please feel free to ask me any questions if you are unsure of my thoughts. I look forward to your guidance, comments and thoughts.

God bless.

Brad
 
Well Brad hope you enjoy your time here at TJ.

I have been thinking that if I believe that Jesus is God then that means people who believe Jesus isn't God has an opposing view. One of must be right and one must be wrong.

There are many concepts within the Christian religious institution that are opposing or contrary to one another, from one denomination to another. These doctrines, thoughts, beliefs and theologies are what separates many. I have seen many topics here and other forums follow the same pattern of thinking. Belief A and B are opposing so they obviously cannot both be right which is true, so then one must be right and the other wrong and this is a possibility but not always. I have found that most people hardly ever consider the third possibility which is both A and B can be wrong.
 
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Hi Caveman,

I'm glad you are back here on Talk Jesus and glad you chose to ask your questions to us too. I do hope most of the answers you get will help you in seeking the answers to what you are asking about.

You stated in your questions: did God plan it to be this way or would he/she be sitting there disappointed with how differently we all see and view things in regards to Jesus. God is definately a male. It says so in the Bible " He gave up His only Begotten Son"

John3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but th at the world through Him might be saved.

Jesus Himself in the bible states plainly He and the Father(God are one). Let me put some verses in the bible that show this.

John10:28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. I and My Father are one.

John14:9 Jesus said to him, " Have I been with you so long and yet you have not known Me, Philp? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say "show us the Father? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me?

Jesus Himself confirms to us in His very written word that He is indeed one with the Father and the Father is one with Him. Also He says that to see Him is to see the Father. Father God in Heaven and Jesus are indeed one. Now lets move on to the God Head or Trinity. Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Each of these things is seperate but come together to make a whole. You can't have one without the other...It's impossible. The Holy Ghost(Holy Spirit) is our convictor...He convicts us and brings us to Jesus who then provides us a way to God the Father in Heaven. If it weren't so then how would we ever be reconciled to God? We couldn't be but because of the gifts that God Himself imparted to us..parts of His being we can be reconciled to Him. When Jesus died the veil in the temple was ripped in two from top to bottom...that was because it symbolized that fact that through Jesus the Son of God that we were no longer seperated from God but now could be reconciled to Him by the precious blood of Jesus which was shed for us when He died. Only the Son of God or part of God Himself come to earth in human form could do that.

Alot of people say " but how can they be three in one yet seperate" well, lets look at some things that deminstrate how its possible. Lets look at an apple....it has skin, meat inside and seeds as well...these three things though seperate make a whole apple, or what about an egg we have the shell, yolk and white...all these are parts of an egg. You can't have an egg without all of these parts yet the are seperate parts...I hope you can see what im trying to say...these things have seperate parts but wouldn't be a whole if you took one of the parts away...Just as it with Father, Son, and Holy Ghost They are seperate but come together to make the whole " God Head or Trinity" simply put you can't have one gone and have a whole because they are all part of each other just as the apple or egg come together to make a whole and are part of each other, so it is with Father, Son and Holy Ghost all parts of God coming together to make a whole.

You asked another good question. Is God plan it this way and is He disappointed in how differently we see things. God is all knowing so He knows even before we are born what is going to happen, but He will not choose for us that is why He gave us free will...He wants us to come to Him and love Him of our own free...here on earth we don't force others to love us so why would God force anyone to love Him? It's not real love if its forced and will only lead to resentment...So, He gives free will for us to make choices and one of those choices is " Do we come to Him or do we not" Since God is not willing that any suffer I believe yes He does get sad when His very own creation turns from Him and goes their own way and I also believe and know that out of love God never gives up on us not on any of us. Here is what the bible says about heaven and what happens when even one sinner repents and makes the decison to come to Him of their own free will.

Luke15:4-7 What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, dose not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing and when he comes home , he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, " Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!" I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

God says in the bible we are the salt and light which He will use to spread His love and His truth. When we do this and if one person hears the truth that God Himself has put into and given us and comes to Him and repents and of their own free will takes Him as Lord and Savior of His life...all of heaven rejoices! Isn't that something...that all of heaven is singing and rejoicing over that one lost soul that has come to be saved. That is why it is so important for us to show the love of Jesus in all we do, say and in how we act...someone's eyes are always on us. We must be aware that we can only do this by and through Him..for we do not save Only God Himself can save.

I want to add one final thing. The Bible( the very true word of our God in heaven) isn't just some old book...it is the very Truth of our Lord and Savior. It is filled with His love and promises to us, it is our guide to living everyday life and raising our children, it is our strength, our shield from the fiery darts of the enemy satan, it is our comfort and it along
with our Lord will never ever change...our Lord's words and truth are forever Just as He is Forever and will never be changed.

God bless you caveman each and every day more abundantly than you ever dreamed and
may His love and peace surround you now and always. In His precious Name Amen and Amen!
 
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I personally think the Trinity is real and very Biblical. It is O.K. to struggle with that to what ever degree you are because it is not a salvation matter. You say that you are really struggling with this, keep it in prespective. Do you struggle with the immaculate conception or fully understanding the resurrection?

The concern would if you where struggling with Jesus being Lord and Savior but, that is not the case.

While you are thinking about the trinity, think about this:

You have been given ample Biblical support for the Trinity but remember this God , Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the absolute perfection in the Universe and therefore, the Trinity is pretty much a given.
 
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Caveman,

Regarding the Trinity, my view is that Jesus' statement in the Great Commission (Mt 28:19) is the definitive word on that matter. He spells it out clearly in my opinion.

I deplore the hateful, condeming attitudes I see among people who pose as true believers but ignore Jesus' gentle, compassionate approach (Is 42:1-4). The only people He tangled with were the religious leaders of that day who were unwilling to accept the Good News.

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)
 
Out side the box

I have heard many say one thing and others say another regarding Jesus and God the Father being one in the same.

As for A and B, its easy to say one is right and one is wrong, but has anyone given it deeper thought. What if they both are right, what if its not a wisdom according to human wisdom, but according to Spirit.

What if Jesus was right, when He said
"But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."
(John 4:23-24)

The Fathers form is Spirit as Jesus said, Jesus form and our form was and is one of flesh. If we are made in Gods image, that image is Spirit according to Christ and we are Spiritual or should be. Jesus became Spiritual when the Spirit came down. We too must become Spiritual as Jesus did, its why He came to us, to show us how to become Spiritual. What if God is Spirit and we are meant to become Spirit as Jesus did? What if that was what Jesus was saying, when He said both the Father and the Son are one, was Jesus saying he became Spiritual as we are meant to become Spiritual. Maybe the common denominator is Spirit?

Just a thought
Blessings T
 
what if its not a wisdom according to human wisdom, but according to Spirit.

"Now we see but a poor reflection as in a (polished brass) mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." (1 Cor 13:12)

"Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see." (Heb 11:1)

Having struggles with matters such as this may mean that the person has not yet truly decided to believe/have faith in what he or she cannot possibly fully comprehend with their limited human intelligence.

SLE
 
Caveman,

Grace and peace unto you from God the Father and Jesus his beloved Son. I posted this in another thread but am copy/pasting it here for you to see.

I came to TJ as a trinitarian. I have since understood otherwise. The Comforter, Holy Spirit, Spirit of the Lord and Spirit of Truth are names of the same spirit which is one of seven that proceed out from the Father who is God as found in Isaiah 11:2. Father and Son are the only two who have ever been in the form of God, of which one has left off of that estate and became part of the creation which was made by him and for him, that he shall rule over forever as soon as it is purified. The final portion of the purification of the creation is coming, the millennial reign of Christ on Earth. The revelation of Jesus Christ, the Son of God who shall rule for all of eternity under God the Father.

These spirits proceed out of the Father and are part of the Father. The Son in his flesh was the living, breathing temple of the Holy God and all the fullness of the divinity dwelt in him bodily, which were these seven spirits that proceeded out of the Father. In the end it comes down to worshiping the Father through the Son as he has established him as the head of creation since he became a part of creation and was resurrected from the dead.

May God bless you and guide you into all truth, and knowing the truth may you come to understand the difference between receiving the Holy Spirit and subsequently being filled with the Holy Spirit which proceeds out of the Father but has been poured out upon all men in these last days. The day is coming when the Father shall remove his spirit from men and they shall turn and kill one another not having been restrained by him any longer. Pray that you be counted worthy to escape the coming trying of those who dwell upon the face of the earth.

Gary
 
It is all so simple to me.

What about a book?? It has length, width and depth or thickness. If you take away one, you no longer have a book. Eh? If one part is removed it is no longer a book.

It is the same with God, Christ and the Holy Spirit. One and the same each a part of the other. All eternal, and all beyond our simple human understanding.

When you can simply accept, the battle is won. God is a trinity, the truth of that is in the word of God throughout. We as men will not fully understand it all, it is just something that is, and has to be accepted.

I am glad Christ is a part of it all, without Christ we would all be in serious trouble.

Kit
 
HI BRAD,
THE WAY I ALWAYS SAW IT IS THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD AND GOD IS THE FATHER. THE TRINITY IS THE FATHER, THE SON, AND THE HOLY GHOST. THE FATHER AND THE SON ARE ONE. IF YOU HAVE THE SON YOU HAVE THE FATHER, AND IF YOU HAVE THE FATHER YOU HAVE THE SON. WITHOUT THE SON (JESUS) IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO GET TO THE FATHER (GOD). ...... I HOPE THIS WAS HELPFUL. ..... ANOTHER THING THAT HELPS ME WHEN I HV BIBLICAL QUESTIONS IS TO REFER TO THAT PARTICULAR TOPIC IN THE BACK OF THE BOOK (PREFERABLY A STUDENT BIBLE) AND IT WILL DIRECT YOU TO DIFFERENT SCRIPTURES IN REGARD TO THAT TOPIC.
 
Hi everyone!

It has been along time since I have posted here but I have had some thoughts lately where I think I need to air them out here and get some of your opinions. Over the last year I have read alot of books on the trinity, christianity and Quakerism. I am very happy to be attending my monthly quaker meeting and through my reading I have discovered that I do believe in the trinity and Jesus as God.

Now these comments are not on here to argue or disagree with anyone as I know people view God differently and I totally respect that. Although I am comfotable with my trinitarian thinking I have started having thoughts about all these different beliefs people have.

I have been thinking that if I believe that Jesus is God then that means people who believe Jesus isn't God has an opposing view. One of must be right and one must be wrong. I hope this makes sense as I am just trying to write what I think. Obviously my trinitarian thinking could be the person who is wrong but I just want to try and get out of this way of thinking.

I respect everyone will make their own decisions and if we are sincere and honest with ourselves trhen that is all we can do but did God plan it to be this way or would he/she be sitting there disappointed with how differently we all see and view things in regards to Jesus.

If you have read this far, thank you for hearing me out and please feel free to ask me any questions if you are unsure of my thoughts. I look forward to your guidance, comments and thoughts.

God bless.

Brad


Ask for God's help in understanding and read the bible. That is where you will find the answer. Pray always without ceasing. The trinity is very real. I have God with me every day, guiding my every way. And is He disappointed by our many different interpretations? I would say definitely. He made one bible, one way, one path. For us to shred that apart into many different denominations is actually a little sickening if you think about it. God bless you and I'll pray for you.
 
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