Should I Tithe? How Can I Give?

[Chad]

Most Christians likely know that tithing is an OT concept and nowhere commanded in the NT that we must tithe 10%. However, there are ample Scripture verses in the NT by Jesus Christ about the importance of giving.

My belief is this: When some Christians say that tithing is not commanded in the NT and that's why they don't tithe, they are speaking the truth, but in a selfish way.

Here's a "cut to the chase" statement to think about:

Are you ok with facing GOD on Judgement Day knowing you never gave, or rarely gave to the church, the poor, those in need?

1 Corinthians 16:2
On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.

Reformation Study Bible Notes

On the first day of every week. The reference is to Sunday, the day on which the resurrected Lord met with His disciples (John 20:19, 26; cf. also “the Lord’s day” in Rev. 1:10). Acts 20:7 indicates that the early Christians met on Sunday “to break bread” (part of their worship), and it would have been appropriate to designate that day for collecting the offering.

Proverbs 3:9-10
Honor the Lord with your wealth and with the firstfruits of all your produce; then your barns will be filled with plenty, and your vats will be bursting with wine.

Hebrews 13:2
Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.

Do not neglect. The pressure of suffering can drive fundamental responsibilities of love from our minds (vv. 3, 7, 16).

entertained angels unawares. Abraham, himself a stranger (11:13), showed hospitality to “three men” (Gen. 18:2) who proved to be the Lord Himself with two of His supernatural messengers (Gen. 18:1–19:22).

Proverbs 22:9
The generous will themselves be blessed, for they share their food with the poor.

Proverbs 28:27
Those who give to the poor will lack nothing, but those who close their eyes to them receive many curses.

1 John 3:17–18
If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

2 Corinthians 9:7
Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Spoken by Jesus Christ About Giving

Matthew 23:23
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cumin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

Luke 6:38
Give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”

Matthew Henry Commentary

Give, and it shall be given to you. God, in his providence, will recompense it to you; it is lent to him, and he is not unrighteous to forget it (Heb. 6:10), but he will pay it again. Men shall return it into your bosom; for God often makes use of men as instruments, not only of his avenging, but of his rewarding justice. If we in a right manner give to others when they need, God will incline the hearts of others to give to us when we need, and to give liberally, good measure pressed down and shaken together. They that sow plentifully shall reap plentifully. Whom God recompenses he recompenses abundantly.

Luke 16:10
“One who is faithful in a very little is also faithful in much, and one who is dishonest in a very little is also dishonest in much.

Matthew 25:35–40
For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

 

[Travis]

The pastor at the church I attend just preached on tithing the other day. He believes one is obligated, in a sense, to give at least 10% of one's gross income. I disagree. If I HAD to give 10% of my income, I probably would not be too happy about it. The fact that I can give even more than 10% of my income as the Lord directs me to is wonderful. I enjoy giving to things that are actually profitable to the Kingdom of God.

The Israelites were obligated to give 10% of their 'income' to the levites. The levites were obligated to give 10% of that amount to the priests. The priests got a 1% tithe... hmm. Levites could not own land:

Joshua 18
7 "For the Levites have no portion among you, because the priesthood of the LORD is their inheritance. Gad and Reuben and the half-tribe of Manasseh also have received their inheritance eastward beyond the Jordan, which Moses the servant of the LORD gave them."​

Well.... guess what... I'm a priest too! You guys should be tithing to me, right?

1 Peter 2
9 But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light: 10 Which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.​

In all seriousness though. We do have an obligation to support the people who are truly doing God's work, when the Lord lays it on our hearts to do so. Not everyone can be a self-supported minister like Paul. No where does is say we owe 10% to anyone, except perhaps to God. But we owe Him A LOT more than just that.

The New Testament seems to more clearly reveal, and do so pretty openly, that it is not about legalistic rules here and there, but godly principles, and matters of the heart.

Blessings,

Travis

 

[Dovegiven]

What's your understanding of Hebrews 7? It appears indisputable that the sons of Levi and the earthly priesthood who died deserved the tithes, but now a new heavenly priesthood is headed by most High Priest Jesus of another order, more deserving to receive tithes.

If so, from whom dies the Lord receive them?

 

[Chad]

Not exactly sure what it is you're asking me, but giving is clearly expressed as important when addressed by Christ and other areas in the NT as I've already quoted. Remember, Christ gave His own life. We sure can give a few moments of our time, a few dollars, a few sacrifices for those in need.

Here's Matthew Henry's Commentary on Hebrews 7, if it helps any

A comparison between the priesthood of Melchizedec and that of Christ. (1-3) The excellence of Christ's priesthood above the Levitical priesthood is shown. (4-10) This is applied to Christ. (11-25) The faith and hope of the church encouraged from this. (26-28)

Verses 1-3 Melchizedec met Abraham when returning from the rescue of Lot. His name, "King of Righteousness," doubtless suitable to his character, marked him as a type of the Messiah and his kingdom. The name of his city signified "Peace;" and as king of peace he typified Christ, the Prince of Peace, the great Reconciler of God and man. Nothing is recorded as to the beginning or end of his life; thus he typically resembled the Son of God, whose existence is from everlasting to everlasting, who had no one that was before him, and will have no one come after him, in his priesthood. Every part of Scripture honours the great King of Righteousness and Peace, our glorious High Priest and Saviour; and the more we examine it, the more we shall be convinced, that the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Verses 4-10 That High Priest who should afterward appear, of whom Melchizedec was a type, must be much superior to the Levitical priests. Observe Abraham's great dignity and happiness; that he had the promises. That man is rich and happy indeed, who has the promises, both of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. This honour have all those who receive the Lord Jesus. Let us go forth in our spiritual conflicts, trusting in his word and strength, ascribing our victories to his grace, and desiring to be met and blessed by him in all our ways.

Verses 11-25 The priesthood and law by which perfection could not come, are done away; a Priest is risen, and a dispensation now set up, by which true believers may be made perfect. That there is such a change is plain. The law which made the Levitical priesthood, showed that the priests were frail, dying creatures, not able to save their own lives, much less could they save the souls of those who came to them. But the High Priest of our profession holds his office by the power of endless life in himself; not only to keep himself alive, but to give spiritual and eternal life to all who rely upon his sacrifice and intercession. The better covenant, of which Jesus was the Surety, is not here contrasted with the covenant of works, by which every transgressor is shut up under the curse. It is distinguished from the Sinai covenant with Israel, and the legal dispensation under which the church so long remained. The better covenant brought the church and every believer into clearer light, more perfect liberty, and more abundant privileges. In the order of Aaron there was a multitude of priests, of high priests one after another; but in the priesthood of Christ there is only one and the same. This is the believer's safety and happiness, that this everlasting High Priest is able to save to the uttermost, in all times, in all cases. Surely then it becomes us to desire a spirituality and holiness, as much beyond those of the Old Testament believers, as our advantages exceed theirs.

Verses 26-28 Observe the description of the personal holiness of Christ. He is free from all habits or principles of sin, not having the least disposition to it in his nature. No sin dwells in him, not the least sinful inclination, though such dwells in the best of Christians. He is harmless, free from all actual transgression; he did no violence, nor was there any deceit in his mouth. He is undefiled. It is hard to keep ourselves pure, so as not to partake the guilt of other men's sins. But none need be dismayed who come to God in the name of his beloved Son. Let them be assured that he will deliver them in the time of trial and suffering, in the time of prosperity, in the hour of death, and in the day of judgment.

 

[Dovegiven]

Not exactly sure what it is you're asking me, but giving is clearly expressed as important when addressed by Christ and other areas in the NT as I've already quoted. Remember, Christ gave His own life. We sure can give a few moments of our time, a few dollars, a few sacrifices for those in need.

Here's Matthew Henry's Commentary on Hebrews 7, if it helps any

A comparison between the priesthood of Melchizedec and that of Christ. (1-3) The excellence of Christ's priesthood above the Levitical priesthood is shown. (4-10) This is applied to Christ. (11-25) The faith and hope of the church encouraged from this. (26-28)

Verses 1-3 Melchizedec met Abraham when returning from the rescue of Lot. His name, "King of Righteousness," doubtless suitable to his character, marked him as a type of the Messiah and his kingdom. The name of his city signified "Peace;" and as king of peace he typified Christ, the Prince of Peace, the great Reconciler of God and man. Nothing is recorded as to the beginning or end of his life; thus he typically resembled the Son of God, whose existence is from everlasting to everlasting, who had no one that was before him, and will have no one come after him, in his priesthood. Every part of Scripture honours the great King of Righteousness and Peace, our glorious High Priest and Saviour; and the more we examine it, the more we shall be convinced, that the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Verses 4-10 That High Priest who should afterward appear, of whom Melchizedec was a type, must be much superior to the Levitical priests. Observe Abraham's great dignity and happiness; that he had the promises. That man is rich and happy indeed, who has the promises, both of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. This honour have all those who receive the Lord Jesus. Let us go forth in our spiritual conflicts, trusting in his word and strength, ascribing our victories to his grace, and desiring to be met and blessed by him in all our ways.

Verses 11-25 The priesthood and law by which perfection could not come, are done away; a Priest is risen, and a dispensation now set up, by which true believers may be made perfect. That there is such a change is plain. The law which made the Levitical priesthood, showed that the priests were frail, dying creatures, not able to save their own lives, much less could they save the souls of those who came to them. But the High Priest of our profession holds his office by the power of endless life in himself; not only to keep himself alive, but to give spiritual and eternal life to all who rely upon his sacrifice and intercession. The better covenant, of which Jesus was the Surety, is not here contrasted with the covenant of works, by which every transgressor is shut up under the curse. It is distinguished from the Sinai covenant with Israel, and the legal dispensation under which the church so long remained. The better covenant brought the church and every believer into clearer light, more perfect liberty, and more abundant privileges. In the order of Aaron there was a multitude of priests, of high priests one after another; but in the priesthood of Christ there is only one and the same. This is the believer's safety and happiness, that this everlasting High Priest is able to save to the uttermost, in all times, in all cases. Surely then it becomes us to desire a spirituality and holiness, as much beyond those of the Old Testament believers, as our advantages exceed theirs.

Verses 26-28 Observe the description of the personal holiness of Christ. He is free from all habits or principles of sin, not having the least disposition to it in his nature. No sin dwells in him, not the least sinful inclination, though such dwells in the best of Christians. He is harmless, free from all actual transgression; he did no violence, nor was there any deceit in his mouth. He is undefiled. It is hard to keep ourselves pure, so as not to partake the guilt of other men's sins. But none need be dismayed who come to God in the name of his beloved Son. Let them be assured that he will deliver them in the time of trial and suffering, in the time of prosperity, in the hour of death, and in the day of judgment.

OK, I like Henry. That above is the Concise version, which leaves out the detail I was interested in concerning tithes, so for comparison of the versions I'm reposting the Concise. I'll post the central verse of interest perhaps to this topic next. I'll go ahead and make a brief preview of my thoughts on it, then quote the Unabridged Henry commentary around it, Then I'll look forward to some discussion.
Hebrews 7:7-10 (KJV)
7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Abraham paid, and Levi paid through Abraham, the higher order receiving the tithes.
That's just one comparison of the two priesthoods, of the earthly Levitical and that of the eternal, of which came Mechisedec. That was a man, a priest of God, of that eternal order which had no genaeology among mortal men, like Jesus who had no direct male seed of Adam, but of God. Levi was of Adam's seed, mortal, temporary. Such a temporal nature meant that priesthood was subject to dying out, in that alone inferior to that priesthood of Jesus. In every way in those chapters of Hebrews the order of Melchisidec was "out of this world superior, particularly concerning the sacrifice. But there is another comparison of our current interest, that of eligibility to receive tithes of men. Levi was authorized by God to do that, and so was Melchisidec, who received tithes from Abraham, making that man greater than Abraham, but was not himself divine. He was king of the city Salem, which was later named Jerusalem. The whole of it shows how much more Jesus deserves equal and better things that applied to the Levitical order, being the eternal High Priest, whose priests receive tithes like Levi did, but more deserving than they because of the superiority of our eternal High Priest. That is God's order of support for ministers of the Kingdom of God. The ministers of the Kingdom of Heaven are our Christian clergy, those called to serve the body of Christ assemblies.
In it I find it difficult to believe tithing is not expected of us who have such a priesthood over us. True, tithing is not commanded, but how about attending church meetings? There are many scriptures documenting that happened, and of course we ought to do that to exhort one another, but I can't think of one commandment all Christians must assemble together. There are other things Christians do that are assumed to be commanded, but are not. The Jews were commanded to assemble regularly. In the same sense it appears to me tithing into that heavenly order is good and very accepted by the Lord, and so is our assembling together regularly with the purpose of exhortation, that is to be of good comfort, to entreat, pray, encourage. We have promises ofthe Lord when we do meet together that are not directed to the benefit of a lone Christian, such as agreement in his name.

The better indexed purchased M. Henry app can't be used online, but here's an online copy with credit to Hebrews 7 Commentary - Matthew Henry Commentary on the Whole Bible (Complete)
4.) He was priest of the most high God, qualified and anointed in an extraordinary manner to be his priest among the Gentiles. So is the Lord Jesus; he is the priest of the most high God, and the Gentiles must come to God by him; it is only through his priesthood that we can obtain reconciliation and remission of sin. (5.) He was without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, v. 3. This must not be understood according to the letter; but the scripture has chosen to set him forth as an extraordinary person, without giving us his genealogy, that he might be a fitter type of Christ, who as man was without father, as God without mother; whose priesthood is without descent, did not descend to him from another, nor from him to another, but is personal and perpetual. (6.) That he met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him. The incident is recorded Gen. 14:18 , etc. He brought forth bread and wine to refresh Abraham and his servants when they were weary; he gave as a king, and blessed as a priest. Thus our Lord Jesus meets his people in their spiritual conflicts, refreshes them, renews their strength, and blesses them. (7.) That Abraham gave him a tenth part of all (v. 2), that is, as the apostle explains it, of all the spoils; and this Abraham did as an expression of his gratitude for what Melchisedec had done for him, or as a testimony of his homage and subjection to him as a king, or as an offering vowed and dedicated to God, to be presented by his priest. And thus are we obliged to make all possible returns of love and gratitude to the Lord Jesus for all the rich and royal favours we receive from him, to pay our homage and subjection to him as our King, and to put all our offerings into his hands, to be presented by him to the Father in the incense of his own sacrifice. (8.) That this Melchisedec was made like unto the Son of God, and abideth a priest continually. He bore the image of God in his piety and authority, and stands upon record as an immortal high priest; the ancient type of him who is the eternal and only-begotten of the Father, who abideth a priest for ever.II. Let us now consider (as the apostle advises) how great this Melchisedec was, and how far his priesthood was above that of the order of Aaron (v. 4, v. 5, etc.): Now consider how great this man was, etc. The greatness of this man and his priesthood appears, 1. From Abraham’s paying the tenth of the spoils unto him; and it is well observed that Levi paid tithes to Melchisedec in Abraham, v. 9. Now Levi received the office of the priesthood from God, and was to take tithes of the people, yet even Levi paid tithes to Melchisedec, as to a greater and higher priest than himself; therefore that high priest who should afterwards appear, of whom Melchisedec was a type, must be much superior to any of the Levitical priests, who paid tithes, in Abraham, to Melchisedec. And now by this argument of persons doing things that are matters of right or injury in the loins of their predecessors we have an illustration how we may be said to have sinned in Adam, and fallen with him in his first transgression. We were in Adam’s loins when he sinned, and the guilt and depravity contracted by the human nature when it was in our first parents are equitably imputed and derived to the same nature as it is in all other persons naturally descended from them. They justly adhere to the nature, and it must be by an act of grace if ever they be taken away. 2. From Melchisedec’s blessing of Abraham, who had the promises; and, without contradiction, the less is blessed of the greater, v. 6, v. 7. Here observe, (1.) Abraham’s great dignity and felicity—that he had the promises. He was one in covenant with God, to whom God had given exceedingly great and precious promises. That man is rich and happy indeed who has an estate in bills and bonds under God’s own hand and seal. These promises are both of the life that now is and of that which is to come; this honour have all those who receive the Lord Jesus, in whom all the promises are yea and amen. (2.) Melchisedec’s greater honour—in that it was his place and privilege to bless Abraham; and it is an uncontested maxim that the less is blessed of the greater, v. 7. He who gives the blessing is greater than he who receives it; and therefore Christ, the antitype of Melchisedec, the meriter and Mediator of all blessings to the children of men, must be greater than all the priests of the order of Aaron.

 

[Dovegiven]

Most Christians likely know that tithing is an OT concept and nowhere commanded in the NT that we must tithe 10%. However, there are ample Scripture verses in the NT by Jesus Christ about the importance of giving.

Indeed giving cheerfully pleases the Lord, comes with promises to the giver, all giving being a blessing to both giver and receiver. But giving is not on the same level as tithing. The blessings on giving are limited, sometimes considered like a loan for God, with God repaying it. But tithing comes with an unlimited reward, which I believe might be key to saving our nation. Israel failed miserably towards God. They couldn't comprehend how returning to their land, not even then realizing God still wanted them back. A condition of their captivity was based on robbing God of tithes and offerings. That didn't apply only to Israel, but to the Gentile Abraham before there was an Israel. The principle applies to all men on earth, who have what they hold by the supply of God. I believe the reason for so much poverty on earth, including among Christians, is centered around robbing God, defying his heavenly economy.

 

[Travis]

That's just one comparison of the two priesthoods, of the earthly Levitical and that of the eternal, of which came Mechisedec. That was a man, a priest of God, of that eternal order which had no genaeology among mortal men, like Jesus who had no direct male seed of Adam, but of God. Levi was of Adam's seed, mortal, temporary. Such a temporal nature meant that priesthood was subject to dying out, in that alone inferior to that priesthood of Jesus. In every way in those chapters of Hebrews the order of Melchisidec was "out of this world superior, particularly concerning the sacrifice. But there is another comparison of our current interest, that of eligibility to receive tithes of men. Levi was authorized by God to do that, and so was Melchisidec, who received tithes from Abraham, making that man greater than Abraham, but was not himself divine. He was king of the city Salem, which was later named Jerusalem. The whole of it shows how much more Jesus deserves equal and better things that applied to the Levitical order, being the eternal High Priest, whose priests receive tithes like Levi did, but more deserving than they because of the superiority of our eternal High Priest.

Have you considered the possibility that Melchisidec was an appearance of God on earth. That Abraham was paying tithe to the Lord Himself at that time?

 

[Dovegiven]

Have you considered the possibility that Melchisidec was an appearance of God on earth. That Abraham was paying tithe to the Lord Himself at that time?

I've heard that theory, but it doesn't fit the event very well. Hebrews 7:3-4 (KJV)
3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

It says he was a great man, not an angel or other divine person. He was a priest. He was king of a literal city "on the map" there, Jerusalem, originally a Gentile city in a Gentile world. Abraham didn't worship Melchizedek. The local kings, including Melchiszedek, came out to greet the victorious Abram.
Genesis 14:17-24 (KJV)
17 And the king of Sodom went out to meet him after his return from the slaughter of Chedorlaomer, and of the kings that were with him, at the valley of Shaveh, which is the king's dale.
18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
21 And the king of Sodom said unto Abram, Give me the persons, and take the goods to thyself.
22 And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the LORD, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth,
23 That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:
24 Save only that which the young men have eaten, and the portion of the men which went with me, Aner, Eshcol, and Mamre; let them take their portion.

Abram dealt with the earthly kings in the region, including that of Sodom. We know what was happening there, so no wonder his request to take the people Abram rescued. Abram avoided saying bluntly to any king "No" by simply declining the booty of war on a matter of honor, tithing it to Melchizedek, also called the king of peace/righteousness, but literal king of Jerusalem.
The man was a type of the coming Christ, made "like unto" the Son of God. The "pattern" of that man's ministry was a figure/type of that of Jesus. That fits both the Genesis and Hebrews accounts.

Having no record of father, mother, etc. in his case simply meant there was no known record of genealogy, and there is no record of when he was born or died. Patrick Fairbairn in his "The Typology of Scripture" textbook says there's been a lot of conjecture that he was Ham, Shem, Noah, Enoch, an angel, Christ, and the Holy Spirit. Enoch would be an enticing candidate having not yet died in the flesh. But that couldn't be either. "He was simply a Caanaite sovereign king who combined his royal dignity as king of Salem with the office of a true priest of God." Rather than try to type it all out I've scanned the two pages into a 12 meg document viewable in my photo album at http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/Ouachitabassangler/My%20Folder/Melchizidek002.jpg Sorry for the underlining, done when a student because the professor told us to do that. Precious book...

 

[Dovegiven]

We're still mulling over the issue of prosperity, interpreted nowadays as having enough surplus to even think of tithing regularly. That's an oxymoron within Christian discussion favoring the merits of staying poor that we might please God, unable to help anyone but ourselves, maybe even our immediate family. Something is wrong with that at the root of it, a disconnect with 2 Corinthians 9:10-15 (KJV)
10 Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness
11 Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God.
12 For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;
13 Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;
14 And by their prayer for you, which long after you for the exceeding grace of God in you.
15 Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift.

That was about a special offering from the Corinthian Church, which was surrounded by world prosperity at that time, a center of economic abundance. Paul collected a big part of it for ministry to hurting saints in Jerusalem. Apparently once.
I view a higher benefit of blessing from God on the Church, so that "priests" of High Priest Jesus can count on a "budget" like anyone else doing business for a master, to commit to mighty works, then follow through, for promotion of the gospel. These days it isn't practical for each of us to quit our jobs and businesses and go on foot preaching it like Paul and the other apostles did. Churches would suspect you, and city authorities would direct you to the nearest homeless shelter, considered a "bum" in many circles. So there are other ways to promote the gospel of Christ, such as the enormous impact of letters sent out from the apostles. We have that capacity right here on TJ, though limited to verification of the word of God already written.

I was taught that passage meant only spiritual blessings. Starving people don't offer thanksgivings to God, with empty bellies, in exchange for religious words.They tend to turn to idols, pacifying evil false gods. All needs must be met to reach them with the gospel, the total of which is prosperity when wealth is used for that purpose. So apart from the promises to tithers (Malachi), how many of us can do our part to feed our own families and equal what the former idolaters of Corinth did for the saints in Jerusalem? Will most people's folded up dollar bill in the offering plate make a difference? Our minister's alliance members all agree, tithers still keep the churches afloat, known to every usher taking up an offering, but tithing is falling off. People who previously tithed but quit are often the first to call the church for help with financial problems, yet also have stopped involvement in any local church. Some watch church online, sometimes. "It's cheaper" I've heard. I agree, for the short term, but sometimes temporary decisions affect whole lifetimes. Most of them we really don't know anything about, gone off the map so to speak until needing something. Well, that's better than doing nothing for the Kingdom of God.

I believe God can't bless freewill giving when the givers don't first yield up his tithe. Robbers should not be credited with benevolence using things they stole or got through fraud, or even in Abram's case, keeping something by which he could be accused of being prospered by other than God. I was a robber of God for many years until the Lord showed me why I had to work so hard to keep food on the table. We ate our seed, leaving nothing left to sow back.

Those are some reasons why we tithe at our household, and go beyond the 10% towards freewill giving (not giving if owed) to other "good ground" ministries in the business of saving souls, none of which are by commandment as the law demanded of the Jews, but by subtle as well as overt revelation of the word of God. I am plugged into God's economy. Our tax preparer remains disturbed over our giving exceeding the IRS allowance, but we know God is well pleased, and shows it. If all the Church at least tithed there would be no need of the IRS, as the general economy would generate such wealth the Treasury would have to be greatly enlarged without agents collecting, because it's obvious that tithers are the most generous of givers, no doubt about it. That's what I believe is God's will, his best for us. I am convinced God is still looking for a nation upon which he can justly open up the windows of heaven, so that nation can save the world from povertyr and present their savior too.

Am I dreaming? I hope not.

 

[Travis]

In it I find it difficult to believe tithing is not expected of us who have such a priesthood over us. True, tithing is not commanded, but how about attending church meetings? There are many scriptures documenting that happened, and of course we ought to do that to exhort one another, but I can't think of one commandment all Christians must assemble together. There are other things Christians do that are assumed to be commanded, but are not. The Jews were commanded to assemble regularly. In the same sense it appears to me tithing into that heavenly order is good and very accepted by the Lord, and so is our assembling together regularly with the purpose of exhortation, that is to be of good comfort, to entreat, pray, encourage. We have promises ofthe Lord when we do meet together that are not directed to the benefit of a lone Christian, such as agreement in his name.

Hi Dovegiven,

I would be curious to hear your thoughts on this essay written by a wonderful man named Russell Earl Kelly,

Tithing is Not a Christian Doctrine | Russell Earl Kelly

Here is one of many points that he makes:

"Tithing was not always in the church. While disagreeing with their own theologians, most church historians write that tithing did not become an accepted doctrine in the church for over 700 years after Calvary. According to the very best historians and encyclopedias, it took over 500 years before the local church Council of Macon in France, in the year 585, tried unsuccessfully to enforce tithing on its members. It was not until the year 777 that Emperor Charlemagne legally allowed the church to collect tithes –and even then it was to gain favor with the Pope. That, my friend, is the history of tithing found in the Encyclopedia Britannica, Encyclopedia Americana and the Roman Catholic Encyclopedia for everybody to read. These historical facts ought to prove something to somebody."​

Blessings,

Travis

 

[Dovegiven]

Yes, I am familiar with those and others. This has been a hot topic for decades on the internet, driving me to dig deeper. I respect historians concerning record of history, but not many historians gave much emphasis to what was for the first 3-4 centuries Christianity was considered a very insignificant movement in the world among historians, making Josephus all the more important to us. He, a Jewish historian in Rome did a splendid job explaining to the Romans the foundations of the Jews, emphasizing the mind of God towards man.
I've read a lot of books too over the years, searching this out. it boils down to the fact that the Church was begun with Jews, then spread from Israel northward, then into modern Turkey and beyond in most directions. Many dispersed Jews from the Babylonian and later Roman exiles around the known world received the gospel along with Gentiles, beginning with the Roman centurion, then outward to include a majority of Gentiles not at all familiar with Abraham or Jews and their ways. The tradition of tithing followed the movement primarily among former Jews, along with many other traditions carried over from the law. It was far into the future before scholars realized tithing was actually an honorable thing to do from the Abraham-Melchizedek event, predating the law. Since Abraham is associated in the world view as Semitic, the world of historians typically remain persuaded anything associated with Semites is evil because of the Jews and their laws and shame, so antisemitism persists.

Few demands of God rattle the minds of mankind more than what has been hoped as forgotten than the idea of a tithe paid like an electric bill. We'll pay what seems like unfair taxes with relatively little complaint. But to pay God 10% of our income hits the flesh like a sledge hammer for most.Paying the electric bill keeps the household operating. Paying the taxes keeps the house available to inhabit. Lack of faith in God's ways puts his bill on the bottom of the stack.

No nation has a direct promise of economic abundance, blessings, anywhere close to that in Malachi. American dollars are based on promises of man's government which holds no surety other than to print more surety to back it up in more numbers of dollars. To none has God promised financial blessing like his economy based on tithing and offerings. His requires both to work on earth as he intended. Men resist it, desperately clinging to any other way of blessing. We have recieved God's remedy for financial distress, but few perform it. Those that do are condemned by those relying on the world system, which God has declared will fail utterly in the last days.

Many Christians are willing to engage in free will offerings, though are mostly oblivious to actual needs of ministers of the Kingdom of Heaven. There simply is no alternative from God apart from tithes and offerings. Note that offerings in the New Testament bless others through special offerings, and to individuals who take part in that. But that doesn't provide sustained support of full time ministers we expect to be there whenever needed. Paul was sustained enough not to rely on anyone, but preached that ministers of the gospel deserve to be paid for their work. He included Bible teachers, but that's not a consideration among men today.

I am not persuaded by carnal people who teach against tithing and even going deeper to question giving to ministers at all, wanting all giving to go to the poor of Earth. They would prefer to dismiss the pastors, remove the church buildings, feed the world. Most of those also put no emphasis on preaching the gospel to them.

 

[Travis]

Few demands of God rattle the minds of mankind more than what has been hoped as forgotten than the idea of a tithe paid like an electric bill. We'll pay what seems like unfair taxes with relatively little complaint. But to pay God 10% of our income hits the flesh like a sledge hammer for most. Paying the electric bill keeps the household operating. Paying the taxes keeps the house available to inhabit. Lack of faith in God's ways puts his bill on the bottom of the stack.

I don't have a problem with paying God 10%. I don't have a problem with paying him 20%. I don't argue against the tithe because it hurts too much to give. In fact I love giving way more than the so called, "obligated," 10 percent. My problem is that people teach that we owe 10% of our gross income to the church. This is un-biblical. We owe God everything... not just a measely 10%. And as Chad's original post highlighted, there is much teaching in the scriptures on giving. It's a matter of the heart, to make it into a legalistic requirement is abusive to God's Word. This is what is being argued against.

I am not persuaded by carnal people who teach against tithing and even going deeper to question giving to ministers at all, wanting all giving to go to the poor of Earth. They would prefer to dismiss the pastors, remove the church buildings, feed the world. Most of those also put no emphasis on preaching the gospel to them.

Ouch. This topic really seems to stir up the flesh in people, methinks. Going into ad hominem arguments and calling anyone who would argue against tithing as carnal is kind of rude. To say that questioning tithing then leads to questioning whether we should support any kind of organized religion at all, seems like a slippery slope fallacy argument to me. It's hard to have an edifying biblical discussion like that.

You said you are familiar with this writing, and others. So you have read this then, from that essay I posted?

Point #10 Malachi 3 is the Most Abused Tithing Text in the Bible.

• 
  The false teaching about tithes from Malachi 3 ignores five important Bible facts.

(1) Malachi is Old Covenant context and is never quoted in the New Covenant to validate tithing (Lev. 27:34; Neh. 10:28, 29; Mal. 3:7; 4:4). (2) In 1:6; 2:1 and 3:1-5, Malachi is very clearly addressed to dishonest priests who are cursed because they had stolen the best offerings from God. (3) The Levitical cities must be considered and Jerusalem was not a Levitical city (Josh 20, 21). It makes no sense to teach that 100% of the tithe was brought to the Temple when most Levites and priests did not live in Jerusalem. (4) In Malachi 3:10-11 tithes are still only food (Lev. 27:30-33). (5) The 24 courses of Levites and priests must also be considered. Beginning with King David and King Solomon, they were divided into 24 families. These divisions were also put into place in Malachi’s time by Ezra and Nehemiah. Since normally only one family served in the Temple for only one week at a time, there was absolutely no reason to send ALL of the tithe to the Temple when 98% of those it was designed to feed were still in the Levitical cities (1 Chron. 24-26; 28:13, 21; 2 Chron. 8:14; 23:8; 31:2, 15-19; 35:4, 5, 10; Ezra 6:18; Neh. 11:19, 30; 12:24; 13:9, 10; Luke 1:5).

Therefore, when the context of the Levitical cities, the 24 families of priests, under-age children, wives, Numbers 18:20-28, 2 Chronicles 31:15-19, Nehemiah 10-13, and all of Malachi are all evaluated, only about 2% of the total first tithe was normally required at the Temple in Jerusalem.

Both the blessing and the curse of Malachi 3:9-11 only lasted for Israelites until the Old Covenant ended at Calvary. Malachi’s audience had willingly reaffirmed the Old Covenant (Neh.10:28, 29). “Cursed be he that confirms not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen” (Deut. 27:26 quoted in Gal. 3:10). And Jesus ended the curse. “Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree” (Gal. 3:13).

Today the very lowest income class pays the largest percentage to charity. Yet most remain in poverty. Neither the lottery, nor the tithe is a magic get-rich-quick answer to replace education, determination and hard work. If Malachi 3:10 really worked for New Covenant Christians, then millions of poor tithing Christians would have escaped poverty and would have become the wealthiest group of people in the world instead of remaining the poorest group. Therefore there is no evidence that the vast majority of poor “tithe-payers” are ever blessed financially merely because they tithe. The Old Covenant blessings are not New Covenant blessings (Heb. 7:18, 19; 8:6-8, 13).​

 

[Dovegiven]

I don't have a problem with paying God 10%. I don't have a problem with paying him 20%. I don't argue against the tithe because it hurts too much to give. In fact I love giving way more than the so called, "obligated," 10 percent. My problem is that people teach that we owe 10% of our gross income to the church. This is un-biblical. We owe God everything... not just a measely 10%. And as Chad's original post highlighted, there is much teaching in the scriptures on giving. It's a matter of the heart, to make it into a legalistic requirement is abusive to God's Word. This is what is being argued against.

Where is it recorded we ought to submit our entire paycheck to God? As far as I can determine the most he has expected is the 10%, which has always been far less than taxes, especially from the Romans. Today I pay nearly 70% of my income in taxes. The whole idea of God's tithe is to fully equip ministry. That's all that stuff that goes on in the Kingdom beyond your own household. All ministries depend upon a budget, else none can build anything without abusing



Ouch. This topic really seems to stir up the flesh in people, methinks. Going into ad hominem arguments and calling anyone who would argue against tithing as carnal is kind of rude. To say that questioning tithing then leads to questioning whether we should support any kind of organized religion at all, seems like a slippery slope fallacy argument to me. It's hard to have an edifying biblical discussion like that.

You said you are familiar with this writing, and others. So you have read this then, from that essay I posted?

Point #10 Malachi 3 is the Most Abused Tithing Text in the Bible.

• 
  The false teaching about tithes from Malachi 3 ignores five important Bible facts.

(1) Malachi is Old Covenant context and is never quoted in the New Covenant to validate tithing (Lev. 27:34; Neh. 10:28, 29; Mal. 3:7; 4:4). (2) In 1:6; 2:1 and 3:1-5, Malachi is very clearly addressed to dishonest priests who are cursed because they had stolen the best offerings from God. (3) The Levitical cities must be considered and Jerusalem was not a Levitical city (Josh 20, 21). It makes no sense to teach that 100% of the tithe was brought to the Temple when most Levites and priests did not live in Jerusalem. (4) In Malachi 3:10-11 tithes are still only food (Lev. 27:30-33). (5) The 24 courses of Levites and priests must also be considered. Beginning with King David and King Solomon, they were divided into 24 families. These divisions were also put into place in Malachi’s time by Ezra and Nehemiah. Since normally only one family served in the Temple for only one week at a time, there was absolutely no reason to send ALL of the tithe to the Temple when 98% of those it was designed to feed were still in the Levitical cities (1 Chron. 24-26; 28:13, 21; 2 Chron. 8:14; 23:8; 31:2, 15-19; 35:4, 5, 10; Ezra 6:18; Neh. 11:19, 30; 12:24; 13:9, 10; Luke 1:5).

Therefore, when the context of the Levitical cities, the 24 families of priests, under-age children, wives, Numbers 18:20-28, 2 Chronicles 31:15-19, Nehemiah 10-13, and all of Malachi are all evaluated, only about 2% of the total first tithe was normally required at the Temple in Jerusalem.

Both the blessing and the curse of Malachi 3:9-11 only lasted for Israelites until the Old Covenant ended at Calvary. Malachi’s audience had willingly reaffirmed the Old Covenant (Neh.10:28, 29). “Cursed be he that confirms not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen” (Deut. 27:26 quoted in Gal. 3:10). And Jesus ended the curse. “Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree” (Gal. 3:13).

Today the very lowest income class pays the largest percentage to charity. Yet most remain in poverty. Neither the lottery, nor the tithe is a magic get-rich-quick answer to replace education, determination and hard work. If Malachi 3:10 really worked for New Covenant Christians, then millions of poor tithing Christians would have escaped poverty and would have become the wealthiest group of people in the world instead of remaining the poorest group. Therefore there is no evidence that the vast majority of poor “tithe-payers” are ever blessed financially merely because they tithe. The Old Covenant blessings are not New Covenant blessings (Heb. 7:18, 19; 8:6-8, 13).​

[/QUOTE]

I don't have a problem with paying God 10%. I don't have a problem with paying him 20%. I don't argue against the tithe because it hurts too much to give. In fact I love giving way more than the so called, "obligated," 10 percent. My problem is that people teach that we owe 10% of our gross income to the church. This is un-biblical. We owe God everything... not just a measely 10%. And as Chad's original post highlighted, there is much teaching in the scriptures on giving. It's a matter of the heart, to make it into a legalistic requirement is abusive to God's Word. This is what is being argued against.



Ouch. This topic really seems to stir up the flesh in people, methinks. Going into ad hominem arguments and calling anyone who would argue against tithing as carnal is kind of rude. To say that questioning tithing then leads to questioning whether we should support any kind of organized religion at all, seems like a slippery slope fallacy argument to me. It's hard to have an edifying biblical discussion like that.

You said you are familiar with this writing, and others. So you have read this then, from that essay I posted?

Point #10 Malachi 3 is the Most Abused Tithing Text in the Bible.

• 
  The false teaching about tithes from Malachi 3 ignores five important Bible facts.

(1) Malachi is Old Covenant context and is never quoted in the New Covenant to validate tithing (Lev. 27:34; Neh. 10:28, 29; Mal. 3:7; 4:4). (2) In 1:6; 2:1 and 3:1-5, Malachi is very clearly addressed to dishonest priests who are cursed because they had stolen the best offerings from God. (3) The Levitical cities must be considered and Jerusalem was not a Levitical city (Josh 20, 21). It makes no sense to teach that 100% of the tithe was brought to the Temple when most Levites and priests did not live in Jerusalem. (4) In Malachi 3:10-11 tithes are still only food (Lev. 27:30-33). (5) The 24 courses of Levites and priests must also be considered. Beginning with King David and King Solomon, they were divided into 24 families. These divisions were also put into place in Malachi’s time by Ezra and Nehemiah. Since normally only one family served in the Temple for only one week at a time, there was absolutely no reason to send ALL of the tithe to the Temple when 98% of those it was designed to feed were still in the Levitical cities (1 Chron. 24-26; 28:13, 21; 2 Chron. 8:14; 23:8; 31:2, 15-19; 35:4, 5, 10; Ezra 6:18; Neh. 11:19, 30; 12:24; 13:9, 10; Luke 1:5).

Therefore, when the context of the Levitical cities, the 24 families of priests, under-age children, wives, Numbers 18:20-28, 2 Chronicles 31:15-19, Nehemiah 10-13, and all of Malachi are all evaluated, only about 2% of the total first tithe was normally required at the Temple in Jerusalem.

Both the blessing and the curse of Malachi 3:9-11 only lasted for Israelites until the Old Covenant ended at Calvary. Malachi’s audience had willingly reaffirmed the Old Covenant (Neh.10:28, 29). “Cursed be he that confirms not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen” (Deut. 27:26 quoted in Gal. 3:10). And Jesus ended the curse. “Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree” (Gal. 3:13).

Today the very lowest income class pays the largest percentage to charity. Yet most remain in poverty. Neither the lottery, nor the tithe is a magic get-rich-quick answer to replace education, determination and hard work. If Malachi 3:10 really worked for New Covenant Christians, then millions of poor tithing Christians would have escaped poverty and would have become the wealthiest group of people in the world instead of remaining the poorest group. Therefore there is no evidence that the vast majority of poor “tithe-payers” are ever blessed financially merely because they tithe. The Old Covenant blessings are not New Covenant blessings (Heb. 7:18, 19; 8:6-8, 13).​

I read of many wonderful works of Jesus in the gospels that indicate to me there are no promises from God, beginning with that given to Adam and Eve, to Noah, to Abraham, to Israel, and of course to the Church that God would answer "No" to. Whatever he was pleased to offer to Israel with curses attached for not keeping the Torah, is certainly mine without curse in Christ.God made available to them soundness of body and mind even in captivity, and wealth, none of which is denied of Christians who have more than they, better promises than they, a better covenant. I have the blessing of the tithe, would not recommend to anyone to forsake, and know the blessings of cheerful giving above the tithe. I highly encourage Christians to commit to and continue giving above the tithe. If pledging to missions like Lottie Moon,
even if that was 40 years ago and no longer a Baptist, it ought to be consistently given, and add more to others as able.

Your point (1): Malachi referred to the Torah tithe in general. Paul in Hebrews 7 referred to the Torah Levitical tithe, then carried that forward to Jesus, our High Pries who lives, who receives tithes with at least the same rights as Levites who died. The Levites collected tithes then tithed 10% of that to the priesthood in Jerusalem, giving the best of the best (first fruits) to the priests. That's the basis of the So. Baptists, for instance, leave local tithes in the local church, a tithe of that going to headquarters in Springfield MO to support administration of the world-wide gospel. programs. Since Levites could not own property, the people they served supported them through ongoing tithes of products from the lands. In addition, the annual feasts required special tithes and offerings at Jerusalem. Meanwhile, as Israel spread out, Levites tithed to local priests that lived distant from Jerusalem. All the servants of God were sustained through rules of tithing.
Also, that curse that Malachi advised was part cause of captivity of Israel in Babylon, came upon them off and on over the next 600 years, resumed in 70AD in full curse mode with the second exile, continuing nearly another 1900 years until 1948.

Malachi addressed the whole nation, all the people of it, including the priests. The priests alone didn't perform the many sins Malachi cited against Israel. The nation was guilty, God not letting the priests off the hook who would have blamed the people.
I have to stop there, shut this down till tonight or tomorrow. Enjoy church today!

 

[Dovegiven]

It got said from the pulpit today that though there is no direct commandment for Christians to tithe, the fact that the scriptures have not been "updated" for our present generation, Jesus remains High Priest in Heaven receiving tithes. Becasue he does that, I want to pay it, not that men need it or God needs it, but because he receives tithes. He does it through the New Covenant priesthood that are earthly priests of the Most High Priest. after the pattern of Hebrews 7.

The fact is that few Christians tithe according to polls, and of course church financial records. It's also a continual fact that as tithing dropped off over the years, so did giving of any kind, resulting in financial failure 4,000 churches a year in America. Some say that's becasue too many people stop attending due to failure of preachers to preach expository sermons. Some say the churches are too "seeker friendly". There are lots of excuses, all the while with pews packed, church pantries emptying weekly as fast as stocked, all sorts of services to people. It all boils down to a final inability to pay the bills that keep the doors open. Just this week another little church in a neighboring county asked for help with utility bills. No problem. They have people, but they are very poor, unemployed, disabled, but helpless. We can do better.

 

[Travis]

He does it through the New Covenant priesthood that are earthly priests of the Most High Priest. after the pattern of Hebrews 7.

I'm a new covenant priest. The priesthood belongs to all believers. Elders/Pastors, Deacons/Ministers, Etc, are not 'The Priests.' That's a bunch of Roman Catholic mumbo jumbo. The priesthood belongs to all whom are born again.

The tithe from Abraham to Melchizedek was a one time event. Jesus doesn't want you're money, he wants your life. He doesn't want a tenth of it, he wants the whole thing.

Blessings,

Travis

 

[Dovegiven]

I'm a new covenant priest. The priesthood belongs to all believers. Elders/Pastors, Deacons/Ministers, Etc, are not 'The Priests.' That's a bunch of Roman Catholic mumbo jumbo. The priesthood belongs to all whom are born again.

The tithe from Abraham to Melchizedek was a one time event. Jesus doesn't want you're money, he wants your life. He doesn't want a tenth of it, he wants the whole thing.

Blessings,

Travis

I read that a lot of people who never go to church, could care less whether any local churches survive, rarely if ever physically contact another believer, much less submit to assembling whenever possible. Anyone who has forsaken all that, ignoring those called to be pastors, teachers, etc. are not at all priest s of God. but are priests unto themselves. I hope you are not among that number.

Again, I'll refer you to Hebrews 7:6-9 (KJV)
6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.

If Jesus is still collecting tithes, do you assume he collects them for you so you don't need to work for a living? Money rains down from Heaven? As for me, I've been in private business(s) since 1980, had some scary times when the general economy suffered, but never went without, the Lord blessing all we do. Men have given into our hands far beyond any predictions. We've watched employees retire and enjoy a good life, keep working to help others do wel by their hands blessed by God. I have no idea how the Lord does it, but I do know it doesn't happen for folks who don't tithe and give even out of their own needs.

So why would Jesus collect tithes? From whom? The Jews? The heathen? Does he care about the pastors called to serve the congregations? SHoudl they live on tips from the people? Should they serve without a clue whether their bills are paid on time, while those they serve live in abundance? Should they not bother with a budget to live by? Is the Lord happy that most of the people live by salary and know their spending limits, but pastors are kept wondering, totally living by faith? No.

How did Jesus teach it? Luke 10:4-9 (KJV)
4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.
7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.
8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

Would we today think such a minister is a leech?

Luke 10:4-9 (KJV)
4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.
7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.
8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

So hopefully you are a church member benefiting from ministries of the elders. Do you give some dollars, then leave, not involved in making sure those elders are blessed as you are? "Well, I hope pastor is making it."
I will not give occasion to God leaving me in doubt, but will wekly test him like he is on record saying Malachi 3:10-11 (KJV)
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.

Same God of promise, same windows of heaven that were also used to pour out the great flood, same devourer(s), same protection of my living. He doesn't change. All his promises are yea in Chrst without curses.

If you say that's only an old testament promise, then you'd have to say the promise of the Holy Spirit doesn't apply to Christians,that being a promise of the old testament. You would have to say that we have nothing to do with Abraham, or anything else in the old testament.
I won't go out on a dead limb like that. It's an old worn out objection that doesn't fit any scripture.