Shunning a family member?

[Corrina]

I feel I must break fellowship with a Christian relative as they are doing two things without repentance:

1. Dating someone who is separated, not divorced, from their Christian spouse

2. Exercising gross financial neglect, to the point where another family member is not being paid what they are owed, as per an agreement. Now that relative is hard up and having to borrow $$ from other relatives (including us) to buy food.

It's really sad. I went to this person alone at first, and urged them to change. Nothing, except I was called "judgemental." Then my husband and I went and again urged this person to repentance. No change. Finally, I called their church, and told one of the pastors what was going on. They were somewhat aware of the situations, but thought the person my relative was dating was divorced. Also, they had already spoken to them about their finances, but didn't know how bad it was, how ir was affecting my other relative.

There are some options my backslidden relative can take to pay off the large debt they owe, including to the financially-strapped relative. But it means selling their large home. That's not happening. It's almost an entitlement attitude, "I deserve this nice house, and too bad for all the companies and people I owe money to." All the while, this person is one of the nicest people you'd like to meet. Very charming. And they're dating a married person.

btw, this person is not my spouse, child, or parent.

I feel I would be disobeying the Word if I did not stop fellowshiping with this relative. If any of you think otherwise, or have been in a similar situation, please share with me. I know no one who has been in this boat, so I'm not sure exactly how to proceed...

btw, my husband is in agreement with me that something must be done. He thinks we need to stop fellowshipping with them. We are only two people, but perhaps that's enough to affect them.

 

[Brighthouse]

As I cannot judge this correctly, because I do not know the person in question,I will say this to you.First dating someone who is still married i sure agree is wrong! So on this point I agree whole heartly! The procudure you are following does seem very close to Matt 18:15-17 As from what you have said, you have brought this matter up before the church.NOW!! Here is something only you can judge.If the church says to mind your own bussiness,and stay out of this because this is not your affair,then I would leave the church as well, and find another one!! a little leven leavens the entire lump, meaning, that all those who are members of the church are sinning along with this person! To many this may sound very extreme!! I understand! 1 peter 4:17-18 For it is time for judgement to begin with the household of God;and IF it begins with us first,what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the Gospel of God? AND!! IF IT IS WITH GREAT DIFFICULTY THAT THE RIGHTEOUS IS SAVED, WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GODLESS MAN AND THE SINNER?? I am not yelling I put it this way, so would see the attention the Word gives to this one verse!eph 4:27 says do not give the devil an opportunity,you have done well!! Now I am a loving believer,I am saying this out of love,not out of anger! Outside the church!! This would be another matter! But in the church, indeed!! this man should be removed until he repents.

 

[Corrina]

Good advice, Brighthouse. It's true that a church that allows such goings-on is certainly not a [spiritually] healthy place. My husband and I don't attend their church, or I think we would leave.

As a mom, I have had to exercise discipline with my kids, and it is a real drag sometimes. Like no TV for three days, etc. It's a bummer to issue it, and a hassle to make sure it's followed. But in the end they learn not to do something naughty. Same thing here. The Lord is directing his children to "not play" with the naughty one until he/she repents. It's for their own good. But it's hard at the time. Actually it's getting easier to prepare to do as I realize I'm following God's rules and knowing that He wants the best for this person and for me. I just have to sit back and watch Him work. I only pray my relative will not need as much discipline as others might...

btw, I didn't specified my relative's gender. Is there a reason you think it's a man? Just curious.

 

[Brighthouse]

since you are a lady,I thought it would be a man,but forgive me if I was wrong. because it could be either. thanks!

 

[Corrina]

Oh, there's no need to apologize. You did nothing wrong. It was just interesting to see you think it was a man. (Still not sayin' - I was hoping to protect their privacy.)

 

[Brighthouse]

amen as well you should!! blessing to you and thanks.

 

[lizabe]

I COrinthians 5: 11 says that your decision to not fellowship with the person in your message is correct.
Yes, God has directed me to not fellowship with unrepentant christians also, and He has also directed me to advise others who have been in fellowship with unrepentant christians to cease fellowship with them- these are people who are quite aware of their sin and refuse to stop. I have been a christian 30 years.

 

[Corrina]

It really is tough love. Our backslidden brothers and sisters aren't going to really get it if everyone just looks the other way...

 

[Brighthouse]

someone had metioned about not praying for them,OH!!! DO!!! Pray for them,you will never find one scripture in the Word that says not to pray for another!!in fact!! quite the opposite!! check these out. rom 12:20,Matt 5:43-46,and one more, though I could list many Luke 6:27-49 So whoever said to you we are not to pray ask them for chapter and verse!! LOL You see by not praying for them,we hold there sins accounable from us to!! And Dear Lord we all have enough to be concerned with our own sins,then to hold those of someone elses!! blessing.

 

[lizabe]

Corina
Whatever decision you make you should check it in the Bible.
Not fellowshipping with these people is in the word of God.
Not praying for them is ALSO in the word of God. You can check it
out its in the New Testament.

 

[Snowrose]

Hello Everyone

I've been reading all your posts and I don't have much to add but this is one of my concerns with the following quote:

"Not praying for them is ALSO in the word of God. You can check it out its in the New Testament."

It is difficult to see a brother or sister fall into sin. Confronting them yes and shunning I can understand as difficult as it may be (though in my heart of hearts, I myself and cannot do it, though I hate the sin). But not praying for them... how can you think not to! I don't see any Bible verse to say NOT TO PRAY for anyone... enemy, friend or family.

Brighthouse said it ...."Pray for them, you will never find one scripture in the Word that says not to pray for another!! In fact!! Quite the opposite!! Check these out. Romans 12: 20, Matthew 5: 43-46"

Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. (James 5:16)

Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed. Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer. (2 Thessalonians 3: 14-15)

Please consider the following is a quote from “Barnes' Notes on the Bible” concerning 2 Thessalonians 3: 15:

“Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother - This shows the true spirit in which discipline is to be administered in the Christian church. We are not to deal with a man as an adversary over whom we are to seek to gain a victory, but as an erring brother - a brother still, though he errs. There was necessity for this caution. There is great danger that when we undertake the work of discipline we shall forget that he who is the subject of it is a brother and that we shall regard and treat him as an enemy. Such is human nature. We set ourselves in array against him. We cut him off as one who is unworthy to walk with us. We triumph over him, and consider him at once as an enemy of the church and as having lost all claim to its sympathies. We abandon him to the tender mercies of a cold and unfeeling world, and let him take his course. Perhaps we follow him with anathemas, and hold him up as unworthy the confidence of mankind. Now all this is entirely unlike the method and aim of discipline as the New Testament requires. There all is kind, and gentle, though firm; the offender is a man and a brother still; he is to be followed with tender sympathy and prayer, and the hearts and the arms of the Christian brotherhood are to be open to receive him again when he gives any evidence of repenting.”

Careful consideration is needed here. What is on the Father’s heart for this individual? Do you think He would shun or stop praying for this person? Do you think He stopped loving this person? Christ loved us as sinners (Romans 5: 8) ... would He think less of this individual? I love my children but when they do wrong ... discipline is needed yes but so is gentle instruction, unconditional love and prayer, LOTS OF IT. And God to take care of the rest.

Many blessings to you all,
Snowrose.

 

[lizabe]

Snowrose,
I suggest you keep your help targeted to the person who needs help.

 

[Snowrose]

Hello Lizabe,

My sincere apologizes for causing you any offence... it was not my intent. But I do hope that whoever reads all these posts will be instructed and encouraged. Isn’t that what TJ is all about. That whoever comes in, will find words of comfort thru our testimonies and our witness.

Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves receive from God. For just as we share abundantly in the sufferings of Christ, so also our comfort abounds through Christ. (2 Corinthians 1: 3-5)

Again I am sorry. And Corrina, I apologize to you as well since you began this post ... if I caused any offence here. I will constantly pray for those involve that they will receive a revelation of God’s word and that their "love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, so that they may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ—to the glory and praise of God." (Philippians 1: 9 – 11)

Blessings,
Snowrose

 

[undercover12]

prayer and dis-association

hello Corina,

The only thing I can say is, prayer changes things. Though it is not our work as human beings to convict people for the repentance of sins/errors because that is the work of God through the Holy Spirit, but through prayer, we can be a part of. When we pray, God in His own special ways may use others or we ourselves to convict that person.

Regarding praying or not praying a person in willful sin/error? How about dis-association? I've seen these verses long before and wondered on them.

Jeremiah 14:10-11 & 11:14

<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-19304">10</sup> This is what the LORD says about this people:
“They greatly love to wander;
they do not restrain their feet.
So the LORD does not accept them;
he will now remember their wickedness
and punish them for their sins.”
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-19305">11</sup> Then the LORD said to me, “Do not pray for the well-being of this people.


In 1John there is also a passage that tells the same thing but a deeper understanding on the passage is needed. Hope someone would expound it here.


1John5:16-17

<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-30641">16</sup> If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-30642">17</sup> All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.




There was a time I struggled with a fellow in our church and I cannot take anymore what he's doing. So I prayed to God telling "God I cannot take this fellow anymore, nor do I want to associate with him, or to talk to him or even want to see this man. (LOL)... But he's a brother God and I know that I myself have my own imperfections. So I lay this man before you."

Then the Lord gave me this verse after the prayer...

2Thessalonians 3:14-15

<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-29693">14</sup> Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-29694">15</sup> Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer.



I just want to note, I just did that (not to associate with that fellow) not because I know a portion of the Scripture (for I already have read other passage in the Bible where Paul gave such instruction) but did only after the conviction of the Holy Spirit. I highlighted verse 15 'cause that is where God spoke to me. Then God gave me wisdom on how to do that without being noticed by others. After some months, the Lord made a way to bring back the broken fellowship with that fellow believer. Now, we're working hand in hand again in the ministry. Amen

When we pray, sometimes we cannot see any change on the person or situation we're lifting up to God, but at least God is making a change on us on how we see/deal with such people, things or situations.

God bless to all.



undercover12

 

[sunshineaaks]

Corina
Whatever decision you make you should check it in the Bible.
Not fellowshipping with these people is in the word of God.
Not praying for them is ALSO in the word of God. You can check it
out its in the New Testament.

"Not praying for them..." ??? Could you give me the verses that state this, please?

 

[Strypes]

There are many aspects of this situation that we are not privy to. Like the person dating someone that is not divorced yet...Like, what is the situation that is causing the divorce? Are they friends or lovers?

for example...

If they are not in a sexual relationship and the divorce is emanate due to adultery on the part of the other spouse, then their "dating" or courting, may not qualify as error.

As for the financial aspects, times are tough right now and with out some aspect of spending recklessly whilst begging relatives for food money.. (because they spent their food money on frivolous indulgences), then how do we judge the true need? We don't have enough information to make a proper judgement.


So, in my opinion, if I had a relative that was going hungry because the money they have barely pays the bills, then the proper thing to do is for those with food to share with those that don't. Isn't that what Jesus asked of us?

or would we require them to sell their home and move into a shack before we would help? Or would we report them to the elders because they do not meet our standard of righteousness?

Now if the couple is in a truly adulterous (sexual) relationship and flaunt it whilst holding a position in ministry.. that would be different.

But to pass judgement in a situation that we do not have the details, is irresponsible of us and to pat someone on the back for shunning another (and bragging about it) is just wrong.

 

[sunshineaaks]

Hello Everyone

I've been reading all your posts and I don't have much to add but this is one of my concerns with the following quote:

"Not praying for them is ALSO in the word of God. You can check it out its in the New Testament."

It is difficult to see a brother or sister fall into sin. Confronting them yes and shunning I can understand as difficult as it may be (though in my heart of hearts, I myself and cannot do it, though I hate the sin). But not praying for them... how can you think not to! I don't see any Bible verse to say NOT TO PRAY for anyone... enemy, friend or family.

Brighthouse said it ...."Pray for them, you will never find one scripture in the Word that says not to pray for another!! In fact!! Quite the opposite!! Check these out. Romans 12: 20, Matthew 5: 43-46"

Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. (James 5:16)

Take special note of anyone who does not obey our instruction in this letter. Do not associate with them, in order that they may feel ashamed. Yet do not regard them as an enemy, but warn them as you would a fellow believer. (2 Thessalonians 3: 14-15)

Please consider the following is a quote from “Barnes' Notes on the Bible” concerning 2 Thessalonians 3: 15:

“Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother - This shows the true spirit in which discipline is to be administered in the Christian church. We are not to deal with a man as an adversary over whom we are to seek to gain a victory, but as an erring brother - a brother still, though he errs. There was necessity for this caution. There is great danger that when we undertake the work of discipline we shall forget that he who is the subject of it is a brother and that we shall regard and treat him as an enemy. Such is human nature. We set ourselves in array against him. We cut him off as one who is unworthy to walk with us. We triumph over him, and consider him at once as an enemy of the church and as having lost all claim to its sympathies. We abandon him to the tender mercies of a cold and unfeeling world, and let him take his course. Perhaps we follow him with anathemas, and hold him up as unworthy the confidence of mankind. Now all this is entirely unlike the method and aim of discipline as the New Testament requires. There all is kind, and gentle, though firm; the offender is a man and a brother still; he is to be followed with tender sympathy and prayer, and the hearts and the arms of the Christian brotherhood are to be open to receive him again when he gives any evidence of repenting.”

Careful consideration is needed here. What is on the Father’s heart for this individual? Do you think He would shun or stop praying for this person? Do you think He stopped loving this person? Christ loved us as sinners (Romans 5: 8) ... would He think less of this individual? I love my children but when they do wrong ... discipline is needed yes but so is gentle instruction, unconditional love and prayer, LOTS OF IT. And God to take care of the rest.

Many blessings to you all,
Snowrose.

Excellent post, snowrose....... Thank you

 

[sunshineaaks]

There are many aspects of this situation that we are not privy to. Like the person dating someone that is not divorced yet...Like, what is the situation that is causing the divorce? Are they friends or lovers?

for example...

If they are not in a sexual relationship and the divorce is emanate due to adultery on the part of the other spouse, then their "dating" or courting, may not qualify as error.

As for the financial aspects, times are tough right now and with out some aspect of spending recklessly whilst begging relatives for food money.. (because they spent their food money on frivolous indulgences), then how do we judge the true need? We don't have enough information to make a proper judgement.


So, in my opinion, if I had a relative that was going hungry because the money they have barely pays the bills, then the proper thing to do is for those with food to share with those that don't. Isn't that what Jesus asked of us?

or would we require them to sell their home and move into a shack before we would help? Or would we report them to the elders because they do not meet our standard of righteousness?

Now if the couple is in a truly adulterous (sexual) relationship and flaunt it whilst holding a position in ministry.. that would be different.

But to pass judgement in a situation that we do not have the details, is irresponsible of us and to pat someone on the back for shunning another (and bragging about it) is just wrong.

I'm not sure if you are suggesting that I 'pass judgment' on this couple or not, which is ok. I think you missed my question, however, if you do. I was asking another poster where in the Bible is the verse or verses that state we are not to pray for people like this because I am just not finding such a verse or context.

 

[Strypes]

Originally Posted by lizabe
Corina
Whatever decision you make you should check it in the Bible.
Not fellowshipping with these people is in the word of God.
Not praying for them is ALSO in the word of God. You can check it
out its in the New Testament.

"Not praying for them..." ??? Could you give me the verses that state this, please?

I was not responding to your question addressed to lizabe.

I do not know what scripture they were refering to.

 

[sunshineaaks]

I was not responding to your question addressed to lizabe.

I do not know what scripture they were refering to.

ah ok strypes, just wanted to make sure so I could explain something if need be.