Systematic Giving

[Jerusha]

A cartoon featured the sign in front of a church. It boldly announced "Stewardship Sunday" and then meekly suggested, "Try us again next week." That may reflect our culture's thinking about giving, but it should not reflect ours.



Our giving is to be systematic, individual and consistent. On the first day of the week, each of us is to bring our offering. This is to be the pattern of our life.



What we give is to be proportionate. God does not set a price but a standard. He does not even stipulate a percentage. Rather, we are to give as He has prospered us and as we have purposed in our heart. When we consider what is an appropriate percentage, we find that tithing (ten percent) is neither annulled nor endorsed in the New Testament, but it was the minimum for giving in the Old Testament. Setting aside ten percent is a good starting point, one that can be increased as God prospers us.



The money you put in the offering is a private matter between you and God. Paul did not want to pressure people to give, so he instructed that the collection be taken before he arrived. It should motivate you to consider that when you give, God is your witness!
Finally, our giving has a place. The Corinthians brought their offerings to the local church. That is to be the first priority of our giving. Begin there
.
Stewardship is not a subject to avoid but a command to obey. Consider your giving. Do you meet the standards Paul outlined?

Proverbs 1-2, 1 Corinthians 16

 

[jiggyfly]

A cartoon featured the sign in front of a church. It boldly announced "Stewardship Sunday" and then meekly suggested, "Try us again next week." That may reflect our culture's thinking about giving, but it should not reflect ours.



Our giving is to be systematic, individual and consistent. On the first day of the week, each of us is to bring our offering. This is to be the pattern of our life.



What we give is to be proportionate. God does not set a price but a standard. He does not even stipulate a percentage. Rather, we are to give as He has prospered us and as we have purposed in our heart. When we consider what is an appropriate percentage, we find that tithing (ten percent) is neither annulled nor endorsed in the New Testament, but it was the minimum for giving in the Old Testament. Setting aside ten percent is a good starting point, one that can be increased as God prospers us.



The money you put in the offering is a private matter between you and God. Paul did not want to pressure people to give, so he instructed that the collection be taken before he arrived. It should motivate you to consider that when you give, God is your witness!
Finally, our giving has a place. The Corinthians brought their offerings to the local church. That is to be the first priority of our giving. Begin there
.
Stewardship is not a subject to avoid but a command to obey. Consider your giving. Do you meet the standards Paul outlined?

Proverbs 1-2, 1 Corinthians 16

Sorry Jerusha, but I can't agree with your concept, it aligns with religious tradition and teaching than with the HolySpirit, the new covenant and the scriptures.

 

[Chad]

I don't know if systematic is the right word, but I do believe and preach tithing. All the money we have is His after all. Should we hold on to it selfishly or give to those in need and to the church to build it up for Christ's kingdom?

I give because GOD has given me. You can never outdo GOD either. However, we should treat tithing in a sense of wanting to give with no return. See, GOD already provided for you and you know He will provide continually, so there is no purpose in asking for more than what you give. Just give out of your heart to those in need as Christ gave His life for us.

 

[jiggyfly]

I don't know if systematic is the right word, but I do believe and preach tithing. All the money we have is His after all. Should we hold on to it selfishly or give to those in need and to the church to build it up for Christ's kingdom?

I give because GOD has given me. You can never outdo GOD either. However, we should treat tithing in a sense of wanting to give with no return. See, GOD already provided for you and you know He will provide continually, so there is no purpose in asking for more than what you give. Just give out of your heart to those in need as Christ gave His life for us.

Giving is one thing and tithing another. In the old testament the tithe belonged to God, so were they really giving? I am not sure what you teach/preach concerning the tithe Chad, but most common teachings concerning the tithe are not scriptural. The OP covers much of it and there are some other threads posted here confirming the same.

 

[Blademan]

I give because GOD has given me. You can never outdo GOD either. However, we should treat tithing in a sense of wanting to give with no return.

But Copeland and others like him teach that it's ok to give with the expectation of receiving 100 fold in return...give to get seems to summarize their concept of giving.

What are your thoughts about that?

 

[Chad]

I don't care for the prosperity preachers. They're not my cup of tea. Regardless, the Word itself tells us all we need to know. Preachers can manipulate the proper interpretation.

I give to give. I already know GOD has blessed me and will continue to bless me. Can you even call yourself a Christian and deny that GOD "at times" may not bless you? I'm not talking about testing one's faith. No. Even that itself is a blessing, because it helps us grow. I'm talking about blessing in general, whether financially, physically, materially, emotionally, spiritually.

The prosperity preachers a lot of times focus heavily on this:

Malachi 3:9-11

9Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
11And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.

I will post a study on this Scripture later today.

Just a quick note, there is no denying that GOD wants to bless us. We must have our hearts in the right place (focus on Jesus entirely) and our minds with the right motives.

 

[Brother Mike]

Well.

I happen to love Brother Copeland, and He has sown thousands and thousands in to our church, and had given my Pastor The opportunity to be on the Believers voice of Victory to teach. They are very good friends now, and we see him once a year to teach at our church.

Before I even heard of my Pastor, Brother Copeland's ministry gave to me free of charge thirty or more books upon my request and teaching tapes that I feel was all vital to believing God that my son was healed of cancer.

Brother Copeland started out with nothing, and in debt 30,000 dollars when he started ministry. He would do what he believed the Lord told him to do, like rent a corner building to hold a meeting where on person would show up. He traveled around in a beat up old station wagon, going place to place as the Lord directed with hardly anyone showing up, or even giving the offering a thought.

He started to give his ten percent faithfully and more, soon his debt started to vanish and we finally cleared, Then God asked him to go on radio, with no money but to pay for each show. He had to believe God for it to come in. A few years latter, The Lord told him to go on TV, and He had no idea how that was going to happen, so he pulled all he had to put down on a contract of shows, still several million short of what he needed. God was faithful to him for him not looking at the money, and steeping out in faith.
How many would do that? and risk putting themselves millions in debt for God?
Kenneth Copeland has never borrowed money from anyone!! As he see's in the word thou shall not borrow, and to owe no man anything. What he has, he had to believe God for it, and He now has a whole lot.

(Our Church does borrow, and believe the money to come in though.)

Kenneth teaches, that the kingdom of God comes first, and we are to put our money in the Kingdom where moth and dust will not corrupt. (Matthew 6) He teaches that God is faithful to multiply you seed sown, and give it will be given to you in good measure back reaping what you sow. He teaches about partnership as what Paul said to the Philippians.

Php 4:15 Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.
Php 4:16 For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity.
Php 4:17 Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.
Php 4:18 But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odor of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, well-pleasing to God.
Php 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.


We quote Php 4:19 but we need to remember is was a condition on supporting Paul. A lot of Christians think, keeping their pastor Broke is Godly. God is never first in their mind when handed a check or come in to any money. God is not first with most Christians, and we are told that seek the Kingdom first, then all the rest of the stuff will be added to us. If you think you put God first, then examine what you think and plan for each check you get. that's a good test.


Without Brother Copelands Teachings I would have missed God comming to Branson MO to attened Church with only 100.00 left to our name. We came with no place to go,and we did not know anyone, but God said Go. It was just our van full of stuff, a pregnant wife, two kids and a dog.
Our first night of church, Our Pastor was taking up money to sow in to another ministry for a Boat for the South Pacific so that Islanders would have a way to get to bible school and hear the gospel. The Lord spoke to me that night and told me to give our last 100.00. I obeyed.

The next moringing, our hotel rent was due at 11:00 and we had no food. I knew from what I been taught in the Word, that God is faithful, and I put him first above my own family. Getting kinda ancy, I was up early giving God praises (Keeping my mind off the fact we had to be out at 11:00 and focused on the Word.) When a woman I knew from church in my home town called my cel, and told me God had her up all night to wire transfere me 200.00 by morning. She sent the money, and we got to eat and pay our rent. Two days we were sent 300.00 and which allowed us to get a better place, and someone left 4 bags of food on our door step. By obeying God, and not holding on to my money, I was blessed termendously. Thank you Brother Copeland for teaching me faith, and what money is to be used for.

I know I ranted some. But before we put our mouth on a 74 year old man of God that still flys and preaches all over the world, we should examine our own faith, and our walk with God.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[stephen]

But Copeland and others like him teach that it's ok to give with the expectation of receiving 100 fold in return...give to get seems to summarize their concept of giving.

What are your thoughts about that?

I object to such thought, but I have met folks who give testimony to wonderful provision. I do not like such teaching because it panders to the inherent selfishness of human nature. Others have have entered in but not had such provision?

I have had a heavy month this Sept, on the financial front. Flight ticket to Kenya this November, flight ticket to Portugal next April, T.V. licence, new tyres....etc...... Over £700 outgoings and I am a pensioner on a fixed income. Retired from secular work for 8 years and for the first time since retirement I am overdrawn at the bank.

However if I were to hold back my tithe, because of these 'mitagating' circumstances, I feel that I would be in the red indeed. I cannot afford not to tithe. Tithing keeps me prosperous...........

Overdrawn at the bank and continuing to tithe to God's work!!!? The man is crackers I hear you say. Natural man would find this an enigma and would cry out....and it is a mystery to the natural man....to me also some times.

The bible talks of 'tithes and offering's' I confess the offerings have dropped off this last month.......But I am absolutely sure that this time next month my 'cup will again be running over"

Not boasting, I am a working man...please believe me...just expressing my confidence in Jehovah Sabaoth, the Lord of hosts, the Guardian and Helper of those who fear Him.
Jehovah Jireh, the Lord my Provider.

I do not engage in debate on this subject because I have no desire, absolutely no desire, to offend anyone with what may be considered my quaint views today.......We all belong to Jesus...and we all enjoy His favour and blessing.........

Without doubt,,,and no matter what.....Amen!

 

[stephen]

...............................................................

 

[Brother Mike]

Thank you.

Thank you for your honest Post Brother Stephan.

God is faithful, And Jesus Promised that if you put the Kingdom first, then all The other stuff would be added to you.

I like the book of Haggai, Those people were running around building their houses, and not considering what the Lord wanted done. They were concentrating on their needs and power bills, not the Lords.

Hag 1:6 You have sown much, but you have reaped little; you eat, but you do not have enough; you drink, but you do not have your fill; you clothe yourselves, but no one is warm; and he who earns wages has earned them to put them in a bag with holes in it.

I can remember Truck driving, I told the Lord I wanted a raise, So I decided to tithe on what I wanted to make each week. Well, that was a little over 100.00 dollars a week I gave him faithfully. A few months went by and I was called into the dispatch office, and I got my raise!!! Not only that, but I got a routes that got me home more often, with less time spending the night in some parking lot. I got over 1,200 a week NET!!! (Some were only 800.00 but my average was above what I asked God.)

So, God got his 100.00 a week, which belonged to him. It just amazes me why people are so set against giving back What the Lord has done for them.

I do know, that the government helped themselves to over 400.00 a week from my check, so giving God His little ten percent is no big deal.

AS for that 100 fold blessing, I am not sure where that came from. Jesus mentioned it once in Mark 10. He was trying to make the rich young ruler even richer and had the man stayed around and not made the biggest mistake of his life by walking away, he would have seen and heard Jesus was trying to get him blessed, not poor. The condition was to give ALL. Not going to happen for most Christians today as Giving ALL to God is a strange concept.

I am sure God can multiply seed 100 times, Jesus said with man that's impossible but not with God. I am sure that kind of return would have to be a heart thing with faith and God has done things for use, moved things for us, stopped things from coming to hurt us that we don't even see. What a great God.

God Bless.

 

[Blademan]

I object to such thought, but I have met folks who give testimony to wonderful provision.

I think we can all agree that good things can happen that didn't necessarily originate by way of direct intervention from the Lord. All things in this world, such as our economy, have a momentum about them that causes some to profit, and others to suffer loss. I know many people who gave faithfully, who loved the Lord, and yet suffered great loss. The prosperity dogs said of those very people that they must have had sin in their lives the Lord was dealing with. That has the sour, bitter flavor of presumption and false judgement, which are two of the great errors of Job's friends. They presumed sin in Job's life that had nothing whatsoever to do with the situation at hand.

So, when one says he is greatly blessed because of, or for his faithful giving, I take that with a grain of salt. There are many people who don't give a plug nickel, and yet are "blessed" with health and wealth. The Lord is blamed for many things. What matters most, as Chad had said, is where our hearts are focused.

I do not like such teaching because it panders to the inherent selfishness of human nature.

Nobody could have said that better. This is so true. The Lord allows such foolishness to continue, just as He allows the continuance of child rape and murder...at least, for a time. It will all, one day, be judged.

Overdrawn at the bank and continuing to tithe to God's work!!!? The man is crackers I hear you say. Natural man would find this an enigma and would cry out....and it is a mystery to the natural man....to me also some times.

But then we see people giving from debt, such as credit cards, money they simply don't have. What does that say about those who teach the requirement of giving to men such as Copeland, who has himself has become very wealthy from allegedly doing the Lord's work? Giving more than what one has available, after living expenses, is something I've heard a number of times eminating from these prosperity, false teachers. God never set such a burden upon those who owned crops, orchards, vineyards, herds and/or flocks. He expected ONLY a tenth of the INCREASE from them. If the crop(s), herd(s) or flock(s) yielded only enough to feed the family that raised them, there was no increase from which to tithe. If a man had only nine calves or lambs born in a year, then he wasn't required to hand one over as a tithe. God's Law did no such thing as rounding upward.

I've heard, with my own ears, prosperity preachers like Copeland teach that one should give by whatever means he has available to him, such as credit cards, or checks with dates forwarded to a time when he knows he should have the funds to cover the check. Lord help that man if he ends up laid off. This isn't at all in keeping with scriptural commands or mandates. God isn't some whip-cracking task master, eyes blazing out consuming fire at those who don't give from what they don't have, but the falehoods of prosperity teachings force the more gullible among us into believing an image about God that simply isn't at all in keeping with reality. :angryfly:
False teachers the world over have stated, in no uncertain terms, that one's own living expenses must take a back seat to one's giving by taking off a tenth right off the top, before anything else. This is a dotrine of men, not of God. The Lord only demanded a tenth of the INCREASE, which could only be calculated AFTER all had been accounted for in order to know what was left over from expenses and living needs. False teachers bask in the knowledge that most people are mathematically challenged, and therefore lacking in this knowledge. The Lord at no time expected His people to put themselves into the poor house in order to give what they simply couldn't afford. That doesn't further the Kingdom or causes of God.

 

[Blademan]

It just amazes me why people are so set against giving back What the Lord has done for them.

Well, Mike, I haven't seen anyone here state such a thing.

Not to be argumentative, and speaking only for myself, the only issue I took is the DIRECTION of and PRIORITY in our giving.

For example, when $75 of that $100 you gave is used to support the facility you personally benefit from, that's not giving to God. That's a matter of us lavishing right back upon ourselves the lion's share of our own giving, by supporting something that benefits us personally.

Suppose you and I gave our $75 to the family down the street who was in need, and then the remaining $25 to your church organization. Many of those false prosperity and pro-required-tithing dogs would wag their fingers of condemnation in our faces, thundering out at us all manner of accusation for allegedly having robbed God according to the OT Law. Those dogs never give a thought to their own guilt for not DOING with the tithe what that same Law demanded.

Oh, yes. There's another one of those nasty little secrets they always hope will never be discerned by the masses. That same Law they point at about the tithe is purely subjective in the hands of so-called "church leaders," when they assume they can DO with the tithes whatever is expedient to the budget.

It staggers the imagination how they've gotten away with so much for so long, all without the masses doing something about it.

It never dawned on my thinking years ago that mass gullibility would rule more powerfully than a desire and effort to discover TRUTH.

 

[stephen]

Many of those false prosperity and pro-required-tithing dogs would wag their fingers of condemnation in our faces, thundering out at us all manner of accusation for allegedly having robbed God according to the OT Law. Those dogs never give a thought to their own guilt for not DOING with the tithe what that same Law demanded.

Such language and attitude towards other Christians is out of place on these boards, whatever we might think

The tithe is given to God.........what men do with it is no concern of mine.

 

[Chad]

Blademan's account is closed for good. Don't come here calling Christians "dogs". Makes you look like a complete hypocrite and anything but Christ-like.